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Mac Shipments Down in Q4 2019 Amid Overall PC Market Growth
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Ah, yes, the usual fallback. Throw in how long you’ve been using Apple products as if it somehow makes your claims more believable.
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That what haters always say - that they’re being honest about their experiences.
If we take MR comments about Apple and apply them to the entire world Apple should have failed long ago.
The vocal minority doesn’t represent the real world.
For anyone that actually lived through the Apple II (once Apple’s most popular and important product) being end of lifed, it’s hard to fathom how these people can’t see that eventually happening to the Mac as well.
Perhaps when the Apple II was coming to its end, these people were younger and more open to change?
Continue to be one Happy Apple Customer with my Year 2019 and previous year(s) purchases from the Apple On-line Store;
2019 Year Purchases:
1.Refurbished Mac Mini 2018,8GB Ram,256SSD;
2.iPod 2019 32GB;
3.Ipad Mini 5 with 256SSD;
4.iPad Pencil 1;
5.Apple TV 4K.
Also, purchased AppleCare+ for the first three(3) items.
Of note; my first two(2) Apple purchases was a Apple II which ran OS DOS in the 1980's and a Apple Mac LC2 in the 1990's which were brought new. As I recall the Apple Mac LC2 cost me around $3000 and was a great machine.
My other two major purchases from the Apple On-Line store were Refurbished Mac Mini(Late 2012) and Refurbished Mac Mini 2014. Both of these machines continue to serve me well along with my latest Mac Mini 2018.
2019 Year Purchases:
1.Refurbished Mac Mini 2018,8GB Ram,256SSD;
2.iPod 2019 32GB;
3.Ipad Mini 5 with 256SSD;
4.iPad Pencil 1;
5.Apple TV 4K.
Also, purchased AppleCare+ for the first three(3) items.
Of note; my first two(2) Apple purchases was a Apple II which ran OS DOS in the 1980's and a Apple Mac LC2 in the 1990's which were brought new. As I recall the Apple Mac LC2 cost me around $3000 and was a great machine.
My other two major purchases from the Apple On-Line store were Refurbished Mac Mini(Late 2012) and Refurbished Mac Mini 2014. Both of these machines continue to serve me well along with my latest Mac Mini 2018.
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True, I was much younger when the AppleII died, but the reason I didn’t shed a tear wasn’t because I was more youthful then, but because the newly-born Mac was simply better - much better (though I sorely missed AppleWorks), and for years Macs kept getting better and better. That has stopped being true. Judging by what Apple’s been doing, I’m afraid of Macs’ demise because it looks as if the replacement will be iOS-driven and iPad-ish. I'd have no problem with that if the package were a genuine improvement over the Mac, and thus a welcome replacement, but nothing I’ve seen or read points that way. Of course, nobody knows what Apple will produce in the future, and I may be pleasantly surprised, but I’m not holding my breath.
If you sorely missed AppleWorks, then it wasn’t really “better”, was it? Could be that it was just different and new. And, the young you were willing to put up with the lack of internal upgrade options, the inability to connect it to a TV, the lack of a text based interface AND BASIC, and other things simply because it was new and exciting. Even by the time the Apple II was EOL, there were things the Mac still hadn’t gotten around to doing (and some never came to the Mac).
Folks older than you at the time were afraid of the Apple II’s demise because it looked like the replacement would be mouse driven and GUI. They would have been FINE if the Mac was actually a genuine improvement, but they couldn’t see why they should have to give up YEARS of software and ways of working. Younger folks today look at iOS and feel that, even with it’s limitations, it’s better than what came before. I have no doubt that, when the NEXT thing comes, these folks comfortable with iOS will feel that WHATEVER comes next will be limited, worse, and they’ll be concerned about the future.
Darth Tulhu
macrumors 68020
Agreed. And that could mean it getting tied to $6,000 hardware.
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When he revealed the iPhone, Steve Jobs said iOS is OSX.
I think Apple is milking macOS as far as it can (to drive expensive hardware sales), while at the same time slow-leaking power features into iOS until it reaches parity with macOS. But why sell you one device when it can sell two (iPad AND MacBook)?
Apple already has the touch-based interface it needs. iOS is the future of the macOS.
I highly doubt that the issue of bringing touch to the Mac is a technical one.
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But they have to be careful. People complained, but some still bought them. When PCs were slowing down, Mac still increased sales (even during the recession). Troubling is the market PCs are seeing growth and not Mac.
That may be troubling for those that are only focused on the Mac. But, for those focused on the overall health of Apple, you need to look at the sales of iOS devices, which are growing.
And what exactly is the inflation rate of the tech sector? Let's see, today a 65" Sony XBR TV will run me around $2000. In 2011, a 43" version was $3000.
Tech gets bigger, faster, cheaper, every year. A Mac today with the same memory and storage as 9 YEARS AGO is $400 more expensive and all you can say is that's inflation for you. Wow. Just....Wow. A PC with twice the ram and 8 times the SSD is 2/3rds the price. You can't find a PC with 2011 levels of storage, yet that's where Macs are. 128 gig of SSD in a current model laptop in 2020....Awesome work Timmy.
We don’t know that that’s true. It depends on whether you believe Gartner’s number’s or IDC’s numbers for the quarter 🤷♂️
From the stats I’ve seen, Apple has about 13% of the laptop/desktop hardware market vs. 77% Windows. For smartphones, they’ve got maybe 20% vs 80% for Android. For tablets, iPad has about 33% of the market vs. 67% for Android (and forks).
I don’t really concern myself with such figures—particularly with the quarter to quarter fluctuations—as I’m not paid to do so. That’s Tim Cook’s job. I’ve got more important things to worry about lol.
That said, I do understand that others are concerned. That’s fine, but isn’t something that particularly interests me. As long as Apple is growing their installed base at a rate that’s acceptable to the investment community, I’m good.
And this is the rub as to why the prices bother me.
there's no technical reason for the high price for the lower specced stuff. Apple is in a lot of cases cutting significant costs to themselves by providing the low base storage here. Or the low RAM on iPhones, or etc.
As manufacturing technologies constantly improve (Apple doesn't manufacture, so they don't pay the R&D here), The cost to manufacture goes down. 128gb storage today costs significantly less to produce today than it did 9 years ago
The ONLY reason for it then, is to pocket the difference and to expand upon margins on paper for appeasement to stock holder.
Heck, Some manufacturers of NVME drives aren't even willing to make them that small anymore because it's just not worth it. the difference in cost to manufacture or even sell is so miniscule cause of how cheap and efficient they've gotten the tech at those size levels. heck, it's so cheap now you can get 500gb SSD's for SATA for $30
it's really hard to stomach the price increases given the cost savings Apple is absolutely realizing.
So since when do you own the truth?
So everybody that had a bad experience like the thousands of users that had issues with the MBP Keyboards are all Apple haters? LOL...
Everybody that points REAL FACTS about Apple, that disagrees with you is a hater?
Quite a LAME excuse to denied Facts. It truly shows that you have ZERO objectivity.
Even worse, supporting Apple that it not recalling any of the Laptops that had the faulty keyboards and they are still selling them. I wonder why Apple has several class action lawsuits for that "great design"... NOT.
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🤣 🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣🤣
How can the Mac computer line up be the best when has a complete lack of innovation, quality and price competitiveness??
1- iMac external design has not been updated in 10 years...let me repeat... TEN YEARS...
You cannot even adjust the vertical position.
Entry level, still ships with a 5400 rpm drive in 2020. That is Pathetic. If that is the best Apple can do then we certainly understand different meanings for "best".
2- MBP 2016-19 has been the joke of the street. Bad design, bad quality, bad keyboard and lack of connectivity and lack of innovation. Innovation is not increasing the size of SSD or fix a major bad quality problem that they had with the keyboard or bring back the ESC key.
3- Almost all their line up from Laptops, Mac mini has become disposable appliances due to all soldered non-upgradable components. And then Apple claims that they care about the environment. What a pathetic double standard.
4- Mac mini- After 4 years, the best they can do is release an update with the same enclosures that had major heating problems?
That does not look nearly close to a competitive line up, neither to say "the best".
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1)There was a time when people switch to the Mac side to use the great software like iWeb, iTunes, Safari, iDVD, iMovie. Today Apple software is not a main attraction and is no reason to switch except of course for the main OS.
2)Mac mini is supposed to be entry model originally priced at $500, even fixed for inflation it would be $650. At $800 it is still 20% more expensive. The storage is a joke, 128GB USB drives can be found for $20. That not to mention that they neglected it for -5 years- since 2014. I haven't looked into details, but reviewers seem to agree the base CPU is lacking and to upgrade it that is another $300. Thats a lot of a machine that comes with no keyboard, mouse, or a screen. For same price you can build a pretty capable PC.
3)Updated I mean the physical design has been mostly the same for ions now. No real innovation, not talking about sepcs
4)The current MBP runs too hot too quickly, I have model 2015 and anything close to making the CPU do real work makes it run hot in the 90C. I hear its because Apple design choice to make it so thin, not sure if other PC laptops are the same with this.
1) You mean like Logic Pro X and Final Cut Pro X? FaceTime? Messages? GarageBand? Pages? Numbers? Keynote? But like you mention, many buy Mac just to get the OS.
2) 90-95% of Apple customers don’t want a headless Mac. Apple made the mini more attractive by beefing up the specs. Yes, they discontinued lower performing SKUs. But as I said, they effectively cut the price on the entry level 8/128 config.
The mini’s got two USB3 and four Thunderbolt 3 ports, so if you want to add cheap USB storage, do it. If you want a larger internal boot drive, you’ll have to pay Apple’s prices
The base model CPU is perfectly fine, but you can upgrade if you wish. If you don’t want or need MacOS, you can probably save money buying a PC, it’s been that way for decades 🤷♂️ (Similarly, if you don’t want an iPhone, you can save money buying an Android.)
3) What you call stale, others call timeless. Smaller bezels isn’t innovation. Apple sells 2-3 million a year and it’s the number one machine used by pros. If innovative design is your priority, perhaps an all-in-one PC would suit you better. Have you found something innovative from another company that you’d rather have?
4) Most Apple customers seem to want a combination of thin, light, quiet and powerful, with great battery life. Many of these features are mutually exclusive. You can’t have all five.
If you’re not satisfied by anything Apple offers, that’s unfortunate. It’s not possible to please all customers, but Apple tries to offer the best solution that satisfies the most customers.
Apple targets the 80-90% customer, so if your requirements fall outside of those that satisfy 80-90% of customers, you might find your needs better met by another manufacturer. (The same thing applies to iPhone, iPad, AirPods, the Watch or any other product Apple sells.)
Apple makes products that many love, and they’ve proven time and again they try to improve where they fall short. But for various reasons, they aren’t the best solution for all customers.
Buyers are very discriminating, and they will—and should—buy other products if another manufacturer’s suit them better. Competition is great, and forces Apple to constantly improve. That’s the beauty of the free market.
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Where do you come up with these 90-95 percent numbers? Are you sure they discontinued lower performing SKUs? Do you have proof of this?
The fact of the matter is that the entry into a Mac Mini is now $799 as oppose to $499. Most people who are looking to update their base mac mini will want to purchase a new base Mac Mini with more current specs. With the $300 price increase, it’s not difficult to speculate Apple’s rationale.
And just like most of their products right now, there is absolutely no justification for it being soldered other than to force you to buy storage up front rather than upgrade it later.
Storage, which has always been the easiest, simplest updates to extend the life of any computer and Apple has intentionaly pushed away from that in order to push for margin sales of their insanely overpriced upgrades.
I understand that there are certain scenarios where upgradable storage isn't practical. The MacBook for example, there's just not enough thicness for a NVME slot. But the same is NOT TRUE for the MBA or MacBook Pro. I understand in a cell phone there's just no easy way to expand storage and while MicroSD is a thing, not always the easiest to implement either. But there's no excuse for soldered storage on a desktop computer. A desktop computer that 100% has the internal space to allow for upgrading. The chassis for the Mini hasn't changed in almost a decade. The earlier models could take a 2.5" drive. and yet, despitee all the miniaturization that's gone on in everything, Apple suddenly can't fit a NVME drive on the board, nevermind a 2.5" drive? No. that decision is purely driven by the executive avarice..
which is a shame, cause if the Mini had a socketable CPU, RAM and storage, even at it's current price it would be quite a considerable option for your average desktop user. But in it's current locked down iteration? it's an overpriced NUC.
And yet Apple is still losing ground. I don't think Apple's line up is in the best shape in years.
Except for the 16" model the laptop lines is still using the butterfly keyboard. Apple's competitors are putting IceLake into their 13" form factors. The iMac is long in the tooth, I mean the stock configurations is still using a 5400RPM spinning drive, that's downright embarrassing. As for the iMac Pro, the MBP lines outperform them and its really not an upgradeable iMac (not feasibly at least).
it's not all doom and gloom, but by the same token its not all rainbows and unicorns. There's a reason why less people buying Macs than PCs.
It's pretty crummy that nobody gives Apple any credit for giving the USB-C adoption curve a push start. You don't realize how backwards the USB A/B world is until you really start enjoying a simpler scenario of one cable always being the right cable.
Of course, we're nowhere near that point yet, but I do a little happy dance everytime I realize that the same cable I'm using for power could also be used for multiple purposes. Currently I only enjoy this convenience with my two external drives, but when I pick up my next camera later this year, a Nikon d780, that same USB-C cable will now also allow me to charge my camera battery should I ever forget to pack my wall charger.
Perhaps I should have been clearer as to what Apple’s 80-90% customer is. It refers to the 80-90% of those who are potential Apple customers.
That excludes those with Apple Derangement Syndrome, those who have a strong preference for another brand, and the billions who can’t afford them.
PC buyers far outnumber Mac buyers. It’s something like 12:1. I do think it’s the best Mac lineup in years, but it’s not cheap. That probably has quite a bit to do with the market share figures.
re: Ice Lake, those seem to be very low performance parts at the moment. I’m not sure there’s anything Apple could use yet.
iMac Pro is a workstation that best serves certain workloads, including those that: need more than 64GB of RAM; need more GPU than a 40W part can provide; can utilize 12 or more cores; etc.
That said, you’re absolutely correct that MBP is an amazing performer, though it may not compare so well to a refreshed iMac Pro with the latest generation CPU and GPU.
The latest generation butterfly keyboards are apparently nowhere near as problematic as earlier versions, so it may be that Apple plans to keep using them. I think they’ll probably be replaced as Apple releases newer models though.
re: lower end iMacs, Apple certainly has the option of eliminating lower priced and lower performing SKUs, as they did with the mini. But if enough customers want them, Apple will probably keep them around.
iMac is a very popular product line, and it was refreshed last year. But some seem to be upset with the bezels or otherwise want it redesigned. I think the thermals could use improvement, but I don’t really care about the bezels; the design seems fine to me 🤷♂️