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Regardless, you’re still wrong. Mac quarterly sales have fluctuated between 4-5+ million or so the last 5 years. Your “reasons” for another fluctuation (slight drop) have, as I already stated, zero basis in fact.

FACT 1- Apple is NOT releasing sales numbers anymore. I wonder why...
FACT 2- In the last 5 years computer prices have gone up. That indicates that even if sales are the same or slightly lower, they are still selling less units.
FACT 3- MBP 2016+ has been one of the worse products Apple ever released, having design and quality issues.
FACT 4- The entire computer line up (except the Mac Pro, that is NOT affordable) is overpriced, lack of innovation and lack of up to date specs. i.e. iMac still ships in 2020 with a 5400 rpm drive and 8GB Ram.

You can choose to ignore them, but those are facts.
 
It's amazing that a company whose CEO loves to brag that he doesn't even know what a computer is and can't understand why anyone would buy one managed to sell over 5 million computers in a quarter.
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Apple is fine with the number of Macs they’re selling at the current prices.

People have been complaining about the price of Macs for 35+ years. What’s new 🤷‍♂️

Macs were a bargain 10 years ago, they're insanely expensive today.

I bought a 2011 macbook pro for $1200, and upgraded to a large 256 gig SSD and maxed out 16 gig of ram for $200 more. $1450 all in. I actually spent quite a bit of time shopping PCs and found the mac to be the best value. At the time, even PC magazines were calling that macbook running windows the best windows laptop on the market.

It's hard to say what is comparable to that ram and storage in 2020, but prices have dropped by more than 50%. 16 gig still seems to be the max ram today as I had in my mac 9 years ago, but a current model MBP is $1700 with 256 gig and $1900 with 512 gig. That's pathetic, $400 more with the same ram/storage I had 9 years ago. In the meantime, outside the Apple RDF, prices for comparable PCs have plunged as ram and storage have grown.

Upgrading the 2011 to 1TB of SSD will cost about $100 to do today and, of course, the current model is not upgradable after purchage.
 
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Which Mac models do you feel are neglected?
Most of them. The entire computer line has been neglected. Look at the update cycles that went from 2-3 to 4-6 years.

- iMac external design looks stale and outdated, has not been updated in 10 years. The internals, the entry level still ships in 2020 with 5400 rpm drive an 8GB RAM.
- iMac Pro- For a computer that cost above 5k, It is NOT upgradable, you cannot adjust the monitor vertical position, has major heating issues.
- MBP 2016+ to 2019 worse product Apple ever designed. Just now after 4 years they are trying to fix it. Though still for a so called "PRO", it is a non upgradable disposable appliance.
- Mac Mini- Although it had a major overhaul, it is kind of lame that after 4 years, cost 65% more, it has the same enclosure, and still has major heating problems.
- All the other Laptops, are a unusable until they decide to upgrade the keyboards. Also the entry specs are a joke, at 128GB SSD and 8GB Ram.
- Mac Pro, great but unaffordable. NOt for the common or even entry level pro users. It is like trying to put out a birthday candle with a Firefighter hose.
 
if they paid any attention at all to the marketplace,
They ARE paying attention to the marketplace, and the marketplace, over time, just isn’t as interested in the Mac
But you can save loads if it is possible to upgrade yourself.
You can, I know this, YOU know this, that has ALWAYS been true. However, if you find a used Mac anything, that’s not refurbished, and check the RAM, you will very likely find it has what was installed from the factory. MOST folks never upgraded the RAM.
The hackintosh scene is growing so probably the reason for lower Mac sales.
Hah... um... no. The hackintosh scene is a lower impact than “not listening to pro users” and MUCH lower than “most folks just need an iPad”. BUT “most folks just need an iPad” tells a story of the impending end of the Mac that those that grew up with Macs aren’t comfortable with.
managed to sell over 5 million computers in a quarter.
Hey, if folks’ll buy ‘em, why not sell ‘em?
 
That's pathetic, $400 more with the same ram/storage I had 9 years ago.

Actually, if you adjust it for inflation, its almost the exact same price.
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- iMac Pro- For a computer that cost above 5k, It is NOT upgradable, you cannot adjust the monitor vertical position, has major heating issues.

What...it doesn't have "major heating issues." Mine doesn't even turn the fans on full speed 99.9% of the time. It's also possible to upgrade the CPU and the RAM without a crazy amount of effort, if you have a small amount of technical skill (and if you're willing to void the warranty :D )
 
To me, this represents what the future of tablets will be

Wow!, that looks amazing! It truly shows that they are thinking about the user experience without arrogance (unlike Apple).
When Microsoft and Dell are leading you in design and innovation, speaks how little Apple care and how far behind Apple have been in regards to innovation. The MS Surface had the magnetic pen feature years before Apple.
In the Meantime Apple release a lame Apple Pen 1 that you had to plug into the lighting port.
These last years Apple have been playing catch up, since they have been focused too much on entertaining the investors rather than innovation.
 
EVERY year of the last five years, iPads have been cheaper than even the cheapest Apple laptop. And even those have way more power than most people people need. It’s most certainly because folks don’t need a Mac when a cheaper iPad will suit them just fine.

I'm sure that applies to a percentage of users but I seriously doubt it's significant.

It's not about CPU/GPU power. Simple tasks like typing, editing a word document, or working a spreadsheet are a PITA compared to a macOS/Windows laptop or even a chromebook. I own an iPad Pro and for the past couple of years I've been developing edtech for teachers and students, I'm not saying this out of nowhere.
 
What...it doesn't have "major heating issues." Mine doesn't even turn the fans on full speed 99.9% of the time. It's also possible to upgrade the CPU and the RAM without a crazy amount of effort, if you have a small amount of technical skill (and if you're willing to void the warranty :D )

It has great cooling but the iMac Pro is still an AIO:

1) No replaceable, upgradeable, repairable components (except for RAM). Yeah you can open it at your own risk but you need special equipment and the majority of components are custom. What if you fans stops working? What if your power supply stops working? Etc.

2) Dust accumulation

3) If any component dies you are left with a gorgeous but unusable 5K display

4) No internal expansion

It's a faster iMac, that's for sure, but it's not really a pro machine. It's really an SUV trying to pass as a Land Rover. It's a really bad long term investment compared to a tower.
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If they start producing computers to the quality of the 16" MBP again, then there is no doubt in my mind that their sales will massively grow.

Mac market share grew in the 00s but has been relatively stable in the 10s. I don't it will ever go higher than aprox 15% in the US unless Apple releases a cheap Mac again like those white/black plastic ones.
 
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The MS Surface had the magnetic pen feature years before Apple.
In the Meantime Apple release a lame Apple Pen 1 that you had to plug into the lighting port.
These last years Apple have been playing catch up, since they have been focused too much on entertaining the investors rather than innovation.

I had a Surface 3 and Surface 4, and I can tell you that the pen for the Surface was total garbage compared to the Apple pencil. Aside from the fact that there was barely any support for it in Windows apps, it was way too easy to break, the tips were too fragile, and the pressure sensitivity was way too poor to do anything other than take some quick notes. For art purposes, it was mostly useless.
EDIT: And to be honest, it was my poor experience using the Surface 3 and 4 that pushed me towards MacOS for my home computer.


It's a faster iMac, that's for sure, but it's not really a pro machine. It's really an SUV trying to pass as a Land Rover. It's a really bad long term investment compared to a tower.
When I was trying to decide whether to get the iMac Pro or a new PC tower, I considered the upgradability briefly. But then I realized that out of the 4 PC towers I've owned over the past decade or so, when it's time to upgrade, I always end up building an entirely new system from scratch anyway. :D
 
The Mac needs more problems like this with Windows to Stay alive. security and Safety on your computer and not loosing all your data always RULES over anything else even popularity by numbers

 
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It's amazing that a company whose CEO loves to brag that he doesn't even know what a computer is and can't understand why anyone would buy one managed to sell over 5 million computers in a quarter.
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Macs were a bargain 10 years ago, they're insanely expensive today.

I bought a 2011 macbook pro for $1200, and upgraded to a large 256 gig SSD and maxed out 16 gig of ram for $200 more. $1450 all in. I actually spent quite a bit of time shopping PCs and found the mac to be the best value. At the time, even PC magazines were calling that macbook running windows the best windows laptop on the market.

It's hard to say what is comparable to that ram and storage in 2020, but prices have dropped by more than 50%. 16 gig still seems to be the max ram today as I had in my mac 9 years ago, but a current model MBP is $1700 with 256 gig and $1900 with 512 gig. That's pathetic, $400 more with the same ram/storage I had 9 years ago. In the meantime, outside the Apple RDF, prices for comparable PCs have plunged as ram and storage have grown.

Upgrading the 2011 to 1TB of SSD will cost about $100 to do today and, of course, the current model is not upgradable after purchage.

Yeah, I bought my 2011 MBA for $999 CAD

At the time, AMAZING price and amazing laptop

the Current MBA uses lesser parts (in context even of today). $1449.99 CAD

Whatever value you want to claim the dollar causes, the MBA 2019 is in no way a better value than what they were selling in 2011.

that's nearly a 50% price increase. despite using lower binned overall parts. There is no way on earth I am spending nearly $1500 before tax on a MacBook Air.
 
Phones, Tablets, Wearables. The average consumer needs only this.

The Post-PC era is here, folks, and will only continue to accelerate.

Work will supply you with a machine for work, the cloud will store every file you create, speech recognition will reduce the need for a (physical) keyboard (there's still texting).

Real computers will go the way of the Mac Pro: workhorses for serious heavy lifting, either in the pro space or in the gaming space.

Welcome to the future. The iLife Steve envisioned way back is now realized.
 
Yeah, I bought my 2011 MBA for $999 CAD

At the time, AMAZING price and amazing laptop

the Current MBA uses lesser parts (in context even of today). $1449.99 CAD

Whatever value you want to claim the dollar causes, the MBA 2019 is in no way a better value than what they were selling in 2011.

that's nearly a 50% price increase. despite using lower binned overall parts. There is no way on earth I am spending nearly $1500 before tax on a MacBook Air.

I think your memory is hazy...

Entry level 13 inch MBA was $1299 USD in 2011.

Current entry level 13 inch MBA is $1099 USD. :rolleyes:
 
I think your memory is hazy...

Entry level 13 inch MBA was $1299 USD in 2011.

Current entry level 13 inch MBA is $1099 USD. :rolleyes:

Nope, in 2011, the 11" MacBook Air was $999, the 13" was 1199.

at least up here.

I bloody loved my 11" MBA. So sad when they turfed it in favour of the MacBook. Because it came with a $1599 CAD price tag.

SO yes, Also the price is 1099 USD. I'm talking CAD and clearly stated it

Apple USD$ pricing is far FAR more reasonable than their international prices. Apple is offsetting a lot of US costs with higher margins internationally.

since 2011, Apple's international price points have gone up more than 50% in most segments. Which is not true about US pricing.

Also part of why international Apple sales have been slower, especially in the Computer department than locally back at home.
 
Nope, in 2011, the 11" MacBook Air was $999, the 13" was 1199.

at least up here.

In 2011 the exchange rate was 1 USD to 1 Canadian dollar. So $1199 CAD in 2011 was equal to $1199 USD.

So $1099 USD for the current 13 inch is indeed cheaper than the 2011 13 inch, and even cheaper still when adjusted for inflation.

Also, current exchange rates are 1 USD to 1.31 CAD. $999 USD equals $1304 CAD. And again, thats $999 ($1304 CAD) for a 11 inch model that doesn't exist.
 
In 2011 the exchange rate was 1 USD to 1 Canadian dollar. So $1199 CAD in 2011 was equal to $1199 USD.

So $1099 USD for the current 13 inch is indeed cheaper than the 2011 13 inch, and even cheaper still when adjusted for inflation.

Also, current exchange rates are 1 USD to 1.31 CAD. $999 USD equals $1304 CAD. And again, thats $999 ($1304 CAD) for a 11 inch model that doesn't exist.

yes, but Canadian salaries did not increase the 50% that Apple has increased the price point.

This is true around the globe. So while they peg the price points to the US$ because they're a US company. The rst of the world is seeing their ability to purchase decrease exponentially while Apple atttempts to use the margin's as part of their business pricing.

You're trying to argue that the value is still there based on your own relative incomes and viewpoint.

Internationally that doesn't apply. Internationally, apple's pricing is like a runaway upwards trend that has far exceeded the costs of living and inflation of those local markets.

they have also done so faster, and at larger rate of increases than the competition.

You will continue to be incorrect in your claims of value as long as you continue to take the american centric view of this.

Apple's pricing is great in the US.

it's absolutely Dreadful around the rest of the world.
 
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I'm an IT security nerd. Your justification for Mac is summed up with one word: ransomware.
One hit and you would have just paid for the defense against that with your Mac. Get a Mac. Don't look back. You can't buy enough anti-Crap for Windows to avoid today's harsh landscape.

Good point, and I will consider it in my decision. Apple must still innovate and include reasonably-priced features if they want to compete in this segment, however.
 
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yes, but Canadian salaries did not increase the 50% that Apple has increased the price point.

This is true around the globe. So while they peg the price points to the US$ because they're a US company. The rst of the world is seeing their ability to purchase decrease exponentially while Apple atttempts to use the margin's as part of their business pricing.

You're trying to argue that the value is still there based on your own relative incomes and viewpoint.

Internationally that doesn't apply. Internationally, apple's pricing is like a runaway upwards trend that has far exceeded the costs of living and inflation of those local markets.

they have also done so faster, and at larger rate of increases than the competition.

You will continue to be incorrect in your claims of value as long as you continue to take the american centric view of this.

Apple's pricing is great in the US.

it's absolutely Dreadful around the rest of the world.

My wife has to pay $350 USD for a vial of insulin made in Canada. You pay $32 for the same vial.

Unfortunately, things don't always even out the way you think they should (and you are grossly oversimplifying differences in economies).
 
Phones, Tablets, Wearables. The average consumer needs only this.

The Post-PC era is here, folks, and will only continue to accelerate.

Work will supply you with a machine for work, the cloud will store every file you create, speech recognition will reduce the need for a (physical) keyboard (there's still texting).

Real computers will go the way of the Mac Pro: workhorses for serious heavy lifting, either in the pro space or in the gaming space.

Welcome to the future. The iLife Steve envisioned way back is now realized.
I would go as far as to say the average consumer only needs phones + wearables.
 
My wife has to pay $350 USD for a vial of insulin made in Canada. You pay $32 for the same vial.

Unfortunately, things don't always even out the way you think they should (and you are grossly oversimplifying differences in economies).

while holy off topic. the reason for that vial of insulin being so expensive is because you've allowed your corporate class to dictate that profit comes before everything else, and there are numerous layers of profit in the entire chain.

same reason essentially Apple prices their stuff internationally the way they do. To maximize the profit as best they can on paper.

so yeah. you're really not helping your claim here.


simply put: Apple's international prices have skyrocketted ver the last decade. While the accounting principles behind them are legit and make sense for their financial reasons. It does not account for the purchaisng power in those markets.

Thus my point is still valid. Apple's prices internationally have increased faster than the spending power in those markets. Thus creating pressure on price elasticity in those markets. This pressure results in lowered volume of sales due to the basic principles of supply and demand in those markets.

it is FACT: The cheapest MacBook air in 2011 was $999 CAD. The cheapest MacBook air today is $1449.

MY Canadian spending power did NOT increase 50% in 10 years. Neither did the vast majority of the population.

Thus, the result is fewer international sales.


Honestly, at this point, I'm not sure WHAT exactly you're arguing with em, other than you think i'm attacking Apple and you need to jump to it's defense.
 
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Yeah, I bought my 2011 MBA for $999 CAD

At the time, AMAZING price and amazing laptop

the Current MBA uses lesser parts (in context even of today). $1449.99 CAD

Whatever value you want to claim the dollar causes, the MBA 2019 is in no way a better value than what they were selling in 2011.

that's nearly a 50% price increase. despite using lower binned overall parts. There is no way on earth I am spending nearly $1500 before tax on a MacBook Air.
And that's just the Air. I like to get 17" but no freaking way I'm paying $2400+ for a 16" Mac! I can get a PC Laptop with decent specs for me for HALF.
 
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Phones, Tablets, Wearables. The average consumer needs only this.

The Post-PC era is here, folks, and will only continue to accelerate.

Work will supply you with a machine for work, the cloud will store every file you create, speech recognition will reduce the need for a (physical) keyboard (there's still texting).

Real computers will go the way of the Mac Pro: workhorses for serious heavy lifting, either in the pro space or in the gaming space.

Welcome to the future. The iLife Steve envisioned way back is now realized.

Careful. People on here get very strangely angry when someone says this.
 
Good point, and I will consider it in my decision. Apple must still innovate and include reasonably-priced features if they want to compete in this segment, however.

Unfortunately the poster you are responding to is spreading FUD.

Apple computers are suscpetible to ransomware just like windows. This is an old talking point that dates back to pre-x86 Apple computers that didn't get the same sort of windows Viruses that were popular at the time.

These were self propogating spreading viruses that could destroy your machine, which windows used to be holy susceptible to because of a lack of controls.

However, in 2020: Most Malware are not actually viruses but just malicious programs that convince you to run them. Once you run them and provide them access to your system, the platform is often irrelevant since they rely often on other software layers to execute such as Word macros or javascript in a browser window.

Malware today that tends to lock your files out are prevelant on all Operating systems including Mac's.

macOS is a great OS for it's own rights. But the FUD of "macs are just safer" is not as accurate as it used to be.

Regardless of what product you go with, be diligent in what you open and run and ensure that if you do run anything from a 3rd party source, you verify it before hand. f you get any emails from unknown sources that contain attachments, your best bet is to not run and delete it immediately

Regardless of what OS you are running on.

Here is some evidence of Malware that directly affected MacOS in 2019: https://www.sentinelone.com/blog/macos-malware-2019-first-six-months/

the key here is no OS is flawless and you need to use your own common sense to prevent being compromised. Don't have a false sense of security because someone on the internet without evidence claimed that one platform was better than the other. (and that includes me, so go double check what I claim as well)
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Phones, Tablets, Wearables. The average consumer needs only this.

The Post-PC era is here, folks, and will only continue to accelerate.

Work will supply you with a machine for work, the cloud will store every file you create, speech recognition will reduce the need for a (physical) keyboard (there's still texting).

Real computers will go the way of the Mac Pro: workhorses for serious heavy lifting, either in the pro space or in the gaming space.

Welcome to the future. The iLife Steve envisioned way back is now realized.
Haven't you been saying this since the first time apple claimed it in like 2010?

and yet here we are in 2020 and the "PC" is still selling like hotcakes and most people have at least one in the house (even if it's just a laptop)

the "post PC" rhetoric was just marketing and sales. in reality, a combination of all products to fit peoples lifestyles is how the market has actually responded. With the people buying trucks that need it, and the people buying sports cars who want those.

neither is wrong. Neither is bad. people just rely upon the tech that helps them accomplsih a task the way they're comfortable. and for many, that is still an actual computer.
 
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