Mac Shipments Down in Q4 2019 Amid Overall PC Market Growth

[realtuner]

ONCE AGAIN, you might choose to ignore but most of my points are actual FACTS.

IT IS a FACT that Apple is NOT releasing sales numbers. If you do not know that, then inform yourself.
IT IS A FACT that Apple increased prices about 20% (Macbook Air, MBP, etc) to almost 60% in the case of Mac Minis.
IT IS a FACT (and my opinion as well) that the MBP 2016 has been one of the worse products Apple ever design. They try to fix the keyboard 3 years in a row until they actually give up and go back to the old design.
IT IS a FACT that the iMac base still ships with a 5400rpm in 2020.

And you saying that is not true does not mean that they are still actual facts.
Many people deny still deny the holocaust, but it was a real fact.

Keep it up. Maybe one day Apple will stumble and your life will be made happier somehow.

I’ve listened to people like you for the last 10 years. Always whining/complaining about what Apple is doing wrong and thinking their opinion somehow matters over that of the millions of satisfied Apple customers who continue to buy these somehow “garbage/flawed” devices.

I imagine it will continue for the next 10 years, by which time Apple will be a 2-3 trillion dollar company. So much fail.... /s

 

[sideshowuniqueuser]

Sounds like Apple is doomed again

View attachment 888420

If you change the AAPL chart to a log scale on the price axis (which gives true indication of growth over time), you will see something interesting - the AAPL price has the same steady linear growth up until 2012, and then tails off to a less pronounced linear growth, just like the shipments chart.

And just in case you don't understand why you need a log scale, I'll give you an example. Let's say the share price for company X multiplies by 10 in a year from $1 to $10. Then the next year, similarly multiplies by 10 to $100. If you bought $1,000 of shares when it was $1, and sold them a year later, you would have $10,000. And if you bought $1,000 of shares when the price was $10, and sold them a year later, you would also have $10,000. So you can see that the value increase is the same over the two years. But if you plotted the share price on a non-log scale, it would curve upwards and appear like the value increased slowly at first, and massively at the end, which would be wrong. Whereas, if you plotted it with a log scale, you would get a straight line, appearing like the value increase is the same at different points of the chart, which would be correct.

Don't get me wrong, I'm not knocking AAPL, it has been, and likely will continue to be, a great investment. However, the typical non-log scale presentation of share charts hides the fact that the performance of AAPL since 2012 has been less profitable than the performance of it before 2012.

 

[HandITOVER]

SMH.

 

[MacBH928]

Which Mac models do you feel are neglected?

its not the "model" its the whole lineup, hardware+software. Their MacOS softwares seems very lackluster and on the hardware side, mac mini is too expesnsive, the iMac is very stale, people have been hating on the Macbook Pro, and the only thing that has been positive is the Mac Pro. Albeit expensive, its actually what people want. I will give you that.

 

[HandITOVER]

SMH.

 

[bn-7bc]

Actually, the prices have been coming down. Sometime around the middle of last year, Apple seemed to embark on a policy of edging their pricing downward, much to the dismay of people who like to talk about the resale value of their Macs.

You have to also factor in that every Apple laptop comes with an assurance of retail customer support in the form of Apple Stores that you just aren't going to get with any other computer assuming that you live in an area where there's an Apple Store within a short drive away.

They're still expensive, but there's less Apple Tax and more product/benefit reflected in the sale prices.

Apple stores work well in some places, but lookmat norway, wa have one or was it 2 now, that means for a lot of people ther are many hoers (sometimes as much as half a day) in each direction,not that much better than competitots. Ok i realice Norway is rather sparcely populated, and that Apple can’t be expected torun 10+ stores for a total population of ~5M people
, but still the apple store argument does not realy work here, an I susoect it works equaly poorly in Sweden and Finland

 

[HandITOVER]

SMH.

 

[Peperino]

Keep it up. Maybe one day Apple will stumble and your life will be made happier somehow.

I’ve listened to people like you for the last 10 years. Always whining/complaining about what Apple is doing wrong and thinking their opinion somehow matters over that of the millions of satisfied Apple customers who continue to buy these somehow “garbage/flawed” devices.

And for people like you, is that things never change. There is a saying, "Eat S*&t, Millions of flys cannot be mistaken"....
Apple makes some great product like the Watch and iPod. I have been using Apple way much longer than you probably, which does NOT mean I support every krap Apple releases.
For example, If people would not have complained about the MBP keyboard, then Apple would not have changed the MBP keyboard after almost 4 years. The problem was Apple's design arrogance, on taking over 4 years in order to fix it.
In addtion even a blind can see that the entire computer line up looks stale, lacks of innovation and overpriced.

 

[smirking]

the apple store argument does not realy work here, an I susoect it works equaly poorly in Sweden and Finland

I know. That's why I qualified what I wrote by saying it was under assumption that you lived in an area that has Apple Stores within driving distance.

For those who have access to one, the convenience factor should be part of how you judge whether the products have suitable value.

 

[PickUrPoison]

its not the "model" its the whole lineup, hardware+software. Their MacOS softwares seems very lackluster and on the hardware side, mac mini is too expesnsive, the iMac is very stale, people have been hating on the Macbook Pro, and the only thing that has been positive is the Mac Pro. Albeit expensive, its actually what people want. I will give you that.

1) I don’t know what you mean by lackluster software. What is it you want that you’re not getting?

2) I disagree that Mac mini is too expensive. The $799 8/128 model had only a $50 increase from the previous model, and it’s a much better machine.

For instance: the dual core 1.4/2.7GHz mobile 15W CPU was upgraded to a 65W quad-core 3.6GHz desktop CPU; two Thunderbolt 2 ports became four TB3; a $100 10GbE option was added; and max memory went from 16 GB of soldered RAM to 64 GB of user replaceable, socketed RAM. Taking into account inflation, that $50 price increase was actually a price cut.

3) iMac was just updated 10 months ago in March 2019. If by stale you mean you want smaller bezels, well... ok.

4) The 16” MacBook Pro was just updated two months ago, getting the largest battery possible (100Wh) that can be brought aboard an aircraft, a new larger display, and—with no increase in price—a larger SSD, going from 256 to 512 GB. That’s the equivalent of a $200 price cut.

In short, I believe the Mac lineup is in the best shape it’s been in years. iMac Pro will be updated soon; Intel has announced new CPUs for it (W-3200 series) though I’m unsure whether they are shipping yet.

 

[chucker23n1]

In short, I believe the Mac lineup is in the best shape it’s been in years. iMac Pro will be updated soon; Intel has announced new CPUs for it (W-3200 series) though I’m unsure whether they are shipping yet.

2200. The 2100 is currently in the iMac Pro, and the 3200 is in the Mac Pro. The second digit is the version, and the first is the tier (the Mac Pro's CPUs have a much higher TDP and probably wouldn't work).

 

[HandITOVER]

SMH.

 

[PickUrPoison]

2200. The 2100 is currently in the iMac Pro, and the 3200 is in the Mac Pro. The second digit is the version, and the first is the tier (the Mac Pro's CPUs have a much higher TDP and probably wouldn't work).

Yes you’re right of course 🙂 W-2100 being replaced by the W-2200 series. Significantly higher base clocks and 1TB max RAM, up from 512GB. DDR4-2933 support and much cheaper than the 2100 parts—thanks AMD! Maybe Apple will lower prices or maybe increase base RAM to 64GB? 🤞 (One can hope...)

 

[georgB]

Since we’re here, justifiably complaining about Apple’s disappointing neglect of the Mac and the OS, take a look at other Apple software deficiencies, which are rarely brought up nowadays.

My particular peeve is the iWork trio, Keynote, Numbers, and Pages. In the beginning (the ’80’s) these were integrated - the first such integrated suite (AppleWorks). Microsoft copied that concept, creating PowerPoint, Word, and Excel. The Microsoft suite (Office) is still around, continuously being developed, and probably the most widely-used office suite today. And Apple’s? The integration was dropped years ago, which is my biggest complaint. IMO, Keynote is much better than PP, but it, too, has been dumbed down. Numbers and Pages aren’t top-notch products, I’d be surprised if they were widely used. I suspect office suite programs are probably the most widely used programs of all. Why has Apple neglected its users? (and BTW, the iOS versions, especially Keynote, just aren’t as good as on a Mac.)

Beyond those, iMovie could/should be much better. And what about Apple’s relational database? FileMaker used to be an affordable Apple (or Claris) product. Over the years it’s become an outrageously expensive program; however good it is, it’s way overpriced, and there’s no affordable similar app for the rest of us. And FM was never integrated; in fact FM docs can’t even be searched by Mac’s Spotlight because of FM’s proprietary format - a real bummer.

 

[Steve121178]

Apple is fine with the number of Macs they’re selling at the current prices.

People have been complaining about the price of Macs for 35+ years. What’s new 🤷‍♂️

My late 2013 13" MBP spec cost £1499 at the time, with Apple Care. The modern equivalent would set me back £2428 with Apple Care. Nearly a grand more!

MacBook pricing is obscene, that's why the sales are sliding. Years ago you could justify £1000-£1500 for a computer as you knew it was going to last. Now Apple want nearly a grand more for a machine with a terrible keyboard, iffy battery life, a touch bar no one asked for and a bug-ridden cesspit of an OS?

I'll always pay for quality, but the reason I still have my 2013 machine is that everything they have released in the 13" form factor since the 2016 refresh has been a disaster.

I can only hope the 13" refresh takes on the 16" models keyboard & design, plus a much needed price cut and/or a significant improvement to the base model specification (like the 16"). If not, then my 2013 MBP will be my last and that's just sad.

 

[Poisonivy326]

While we are talking about software, iOS is also really behind. It just got something resembling a file system, something android has had for years.

 

[I7guy]

While we are talking about software, iOS is also really behind. It just got something resembling a file system, something android has had for years.

That’s the appeal of iOS. The appearance of being behind, but not the actuality.

 

[HandITOVER]

SMH.

 

[Steve121178]

The base model of 14” MBP can start with 6-cores but you know TIM COOK is greedy so the chances are 50/50.

I'd be happy with quad core and a six core BTO option on the 13". I'd be ecstatic if 16GB finally become the RAM baseline. I'd be spraying my shorts if 512GB copied the 16" and became the baseline storage option.

I'm just after a little value for money with my obscenely overpriced computer.

 

[chucker23n1]

Yes you’re right of course 🙂 W-2100 being replaced by the W-2200 series. Significantly higher base clocks and 1TB max RAM, up from 512GB. DDR4-2933 support and much cheaper than the 2100 parts—thanks AMD! Maybe Apple will lower prices or maybe increase base RAM to 64GB? 🤞 (One can hope...)

We'll see. Not entirely sure we'll see another iMac Pro at all.

 

[smulji]

1) I don’t know what you mean by lackluster software. What is it you want that you’re not getting?

2) I disagree that Mac mini is too expensive. The $799 8/128 model had only a $50 increase from the previous model, and it’s a much better machine.

For instance: the dual core 1.4/2.7GHz mobile 15W CPU was upgraded to a 65W quad-core 3.6GHz desktop CPU; two Thunderbolt 2 ports became four TB3; a $100 10GbE option was added; and max memory went from 16 GB of soldered RAM to 64 GB of user replaceable, socketed RAM. Taking into account inflation, that $50 price increase was actually a price cut.

3) iMac was just updated 10 months ago in March 2019. If by stale you mean you want smaller bezels, well... ok.

4) The 16” MacBook Pro was just updated two months ago, getting the largest battery possible (100Wh) that can be brought aboard an aircraft, a new larger display, and—with no increase in price—a larger SSD, going from 256 to 512 GB. That’s the equivalent of a $200 price cut.

In short, I believe the Mac lineup is in the best shape it’s been in years. iMac Pro will be updated soon; Intel has announced new CPUs for it (W-3200 series) though I’m unsure whether they are shipping yet.

“iMac Pro will be updated soon”

You think so? I would think that most pros that demand that kind of performance also prefer upgradeability, hence they would gravitate towards the Mac Pro. I’m skeptical if there’s a future for the iMac Pro.
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We'll see. Not entirely sure we'll see another iMac Pro at all.

Same here.

 

[mattyukmatty]

Simply they do not put anything new or innovative anymore.

Same thing all around with MacBooks,

 

[georgB]

While we’re at it … Theis whole “Pro”-naming business is aggravating. Macs - MBs, MBAs, iMacs - should all be offered with a good, modern base model (including, once more, useful input slots), and be incrementally upgradeable (some of it by user) to whatever users feel they need/can afford - and all at reasonable prices. Maybe only the big Mac Pro deserves that special name.

 

[Poisonivy326]

I also don't see the point of the Macbook Air anymore. It used to be this basic ultraportable machine. It's now an expensive machine with a pathetically outdated dual-core processor.

 

[randyhudson]

The “estimated” numbers from IDC and Gartner are so far off we don’t really know if Mac sales dropped slightly, stayed the same, or went up.

Yet people are getting bent out of shape over a possibly tiny variation in Mac sales, something that’s been going on forever.

Sales went down. Apple publicly admitted in November that all of their laptops have crap keyboards. Then they only made only one option available, but a month later.

Sales will not recover until every MacBook is shipping with the new old keyboard.