MacBook and MacBook Pro Disassembly and Photos

[Evangelion]

But in the last 2 years I have convinced 7 people I know to switch from a PC to a Macbook. Not a single one of them will ever spend $2,000 on a laptop. And most of them have DV camcorders. What will they do when it's time to upgrade?

They could do everyone a favor, and replace those crappy DV-camcorders with something better. And today that "something better" uses USB. If they want to keep on using DV, they have few options:

a) Buy a MacBook Pro
b) Not buy anything, but keep on using their current computer
c) Buy a PC

I have a feeling more than one will go back to Dell. And there's nothing I can say to them to convince them not to. It really makes me feel great for being such a Mac pusher now that I have no way to defend a Macbook upgrade to them.

Do you have to defend the Mac? Why not let them buy whatever they want, as opposed to coercing them in to buy the brand of computer you happen to prefer?

 

[editguy]

Sheesh... just buy a MBP and problem solved. The Macbook was never meant for video.

That's a ludicrous statement. Apple promoted it's ability to edit video and offered FCE as a preinstalled option (still does). I have students that use them everyday to edit video. They can't afford a MBP. I wanted it for the smaller form factor since they haven't offered a small pro laptop since the 12" Powerbook. In addition, video is just one of many uses for firewire. This incarnation would have been a great notebook for location editing. But apparently Mr. Jobs has given up on the creative content, video and audio professional market (because the MBP is lacking in sufficient ports for a main editing notebook) and is selling to the recently developed iPod and iPhone market. Obviously there's money there but he's abandoning the very market whose loyalty was what kept Apple in business during the lean years. And what makes it such a shame is that Apple could maintain both markets.

 

[editguy]

They could do everyone a favor, and replace those crappy DV-camcorders with something better. And today that "something better" uses USB.

Sheesh. You could do everyone a favor and quit talking about a subject that you obviously know absolutely nothing about. Do you know anything about video or video cameras? USB camcorders are cheap consumer junk. They are basically throw-away cameras. Comparing a firewire DV camcorder to USB is like comparing a BMW to a Yugo. And as has been stated numerous times, you CAN'T capture video through USB from FCE or FCP. You have to use the camcorder manufacturer's proprietary software to capture and if you want to edit with FCE or FCP you have to transcode the video so that it is in a format they can use. People that buy that junk don't edit videos and they use their cameras for holidays and birthdays and nothing else.

 

[ipsmo]

That's a ludicrous statement. Apple promoted it's ability to edit video and offered FCE as a preinstalled option (still does). I have students that use them everyday to edit video. They can't afford a MBP. I wanted it for the smaller form factor since they haven't offered a small pro laptop since the 12" Powerbook. In addition, video is just one of many uses for firewire. This incarnation would have been a great notebook for location editing. But apparently Mr. Jobs has given up on the creative content, video and audio professional market (because the MBP is lacking in sufficient ports for a main editing notebook) and is selling to the recently developed iPod and iPhone market. Obviously there's money there but he's abandoning the very market whose loyalty was what kept Apple in business during the lean years. And what makes it such a shame is that Apple could maintain both markets.

Where do I begin with your response?! Firstly you accuse Steve Jobs on giving up on the creative market (audio, video, graphics, etc) when they just put two graphics cards in one machine. Secondly the creative market was a small portion in comparison to the educational market which is what really kept Apple alive in it's "lean years." Finally, if your students are relying on a MacBook with a terrible integrated Intel graphics card with Firwire 400 for connection to an external for Final Cut Express or Pro or any app in FCS, that is just dumb and you know it. The fact that you let them get away with rendering with a MacBook is just wrong. It's different if your doing very basic editing with something like iMovie.

If it also isn't obvious Apple thought about the global market of MacBook users not just specific countries, demographics, etc when deciding to remove the firewire port. A majority of users probably weren't using them.

 

[Eidorian]

Where do I begin with your response?! Firstly you accuse Steve Jobs on giving up on the creative market (audio, video, graphics, etc) when they just put two graphics cards in one machine.

I fail to see the correlation between the dual graphics and the creative market.

Secondly the creative market was a small portion in comparison to the educational market which is what really kept Apple alive in it's "lean years." Finally, if your students are relying on a MacBook with a terrible integrated Intel graphics card with Firwire 400 for connection to an external for Final Cut Express or Pro or any app in FCS, that is just dumb and you know it. The fact that you let them get away with rendering with a MacBook is just wrong. It's different if your doing very basic editing with something like iMovie.

What's wrong with using a MacBook for Final Cut Studio?

 

[Evangelion]

Rubbish.

I pick up may feb 2007 macbook pro with one hand, and the case certainly doesnt flex.

Of course it doesn't feel like rubber or something like that. But I think that the difference between te late 2007-model and late 2008-model is going to be significant. So while you might not see or feel any problems with the old MBP, you will notice a difference between the old and new MBP.

Hell, the Air feels a lot more solid than my MBP feels, and I have never complained that my MBO feels "flimsy" or anything.

 

[ipsmo]

I fail to see the correlation between the dual graphics and the creative market.

What's wrong with using a MacBook for Final Cut Studio?

Well let's think about the creative market for a second we have illustraotrs who use Adobe products heavily, web designer who might have to create graphics, interface designers who have to create highly resolution independent buttons and glyphs amongst other elements, video editors who have to edit, organize and render footage, 3d artists who need to layer, texture, and render...the list goes on. Having dual graphics cards with SLI support when it comes in most likely Snow Leopard or a system update, allows both graphics cards to be used at the same time to form one powerful GPU which is more powerful and efficient, which is incredibly useful for any of the above listed in the creative market. In the case that SLI support never comes, having the ability to conserve battery with a weaker/secondary graphics card and then switch to one with more power when you need it is extremely convenient.

Intel integrated graphics for rendering in Final Cut Studio doesn't produce the finest quality output (You won't come close to getting the resolution and color profile as you would on a MacBook Pro) On top of that rendering is much slower than it would be on a MacBook Pro.

 

[Evangelion]

Sheesh. You could do everyone a favor and quit talking about a subject that you obviously know absolutely nothing about. Do you know anything about video or video cameras? USB camcorders are cheap consumer junk.

Just about every camcorder I have seen reviewed includes USB. And those that include FW only are getting quite rare.

They are basically throw-away cameras. Comparing a firewire DV camcorder to USB is like comparing a BMW to a Yugo.

So, a camcorder that uses Flash or HD to store the video is basically crap when compared to DV-camera? So, a camera that costs close to $1000 is "throw-away camera"?

You are so full of crap.

And as has been stated numerous times, you CAN'T capture video through USB from FCE or FCP. You have to use the camcorder manufacturer's proprietary software to capture and if you want to edit with FCE or FCP you have to transcode the video so that it is in a format they can use. People that buy that junk don't edit videos and they use their cameras for holidays and birthdays and nothing else.

If you use FCP or other tools like that, you would be better off from buying a CONSUMER laptop. Instead, you might want to consider a Pro-model. And I do believe that Apple is selling one....

 

[Eidorian]

Well let's think about the creative market for a second we have illustraotrs who use Adobe products heavily, web designer who might have to create graphics, interface designers who have to create highly resolution independent buttons and glyphs amongst other elements, video editors who have to edit, organize and render footage, 3d artists who need to layer, texture, and render...the list goes on. Having dual graphics cards with SLI support when it comes in most likely Snow Leopard or a system update allows both graphics cards to be used at the same time to form one powerful GPU which is stronger and more efficient for any of the above listed in the creative market. I'm surprised you failed to see this.

I'll believe it when I see it. I'm sure you've heard of Core Video and Core Animation...

I'm sure the creative market needs the extra battery life, right?

Intel integrated graphics for rendering in Final Cut Studio doesn't produce the finest quality output (You won't come close to getting the resolution and color profile as you would on a MacBook Pro) On top of that rendering is much slower than it would be on a MacBook Pro.

I understand that Core Image bound effects would be slower but what prevents you from still editing and encoding on a MacBook?

 

[Evangelion]

Besides, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if future upgrade to the MacBook would bring the precious FireWire back to it. After all, the first MacBook Pro was Missing FW800, but it was re-introduced later.

 

[ipsmo]

I'll believe it when I see it. I'm sure you've heard of Core Video and Core Animation...

I understand that Core Image bound effects would be slower but what prevents you from still editing and encoding on a MacBook?

If you are trying to imply the core animation or core video are trying to or can obtain the same thing as SLI then you would be very wrong. I work with core animation on daily basis and although the output it can produce (custom code drawn UI elements, transitions, and views) all of which are smooth and appear fine, the power of SLI has little relevancy aside from the speed and efficiency of the GPU being able to draw the UI or process the transitions. The purposes of core animation and core video are different from that of SLI.

Nothing prevents you from editing and encoding on MacBook, I'm just stating that it's slower and the encoding capabilities aren't as great (let's not get specific and start and argument here) as a MacBook Pro.

 

[Eidorian]

Besides, I wouldn't be one bit surprised if future upgrade to the MacBook would bring the precious FireWire back to it. After all, the first MacBook Pro was Missing FW800, but it was re-introduced later.

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/582911/

If you are trying to imply the core animation or core video are trying to or can obtain the same thing as SLI or they are ways around it then you would be very wrong. I work with core animation on daily basis at the moment and although the output it can produce (custom code drawn UI elements, transitions, and views) all of which are smooth and appear fine, the power of SLI has little relevancy aside from the speed and efficiency of being able to draw a UI or process the transitions. The purposes of core animation and core video are different from SLI.

I see that you didn't get my point. Apple does a fine pony show at WWDC but how many applications have we seen that take advantage of these wonderful APIs besides Apple? I'm glad that at least you're using Core Animation. I'll be happy to see the final product.

Apple has promised a lot of wonderful features in their operating systems but they end up left in the toolbox. I'm still waiting for GPU hardware decoding.

The dual GPU situation on the MacBook Pro is more of a side effect that can be taken advantage of then anything else.

Nothing prevents you from editing and encoding on MacBook, I'm just stating that it's slower and the encoding capabilities aren't as great (let's not get specific and start and argument here) as a MacBook Pro.

A 2.4 GHz processor is a 2.4 GHz processor. Just don't touch Motion or Color.

 

[ipsmo]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/582911/

I see that you didn't get my point. Apple does a fine pony show at WWDC but how many applications have we seen that take advantage of these wonderful APIs besides Apple? I'm glad that at least you're using Core Animation. I'll be happy to see the final product.

Apple has promised a lot of wonderful features in their operating systems but they end up left in the toolbox. I'm still waiting for GPU hardware decoding.

The dual GPU situation on the MacBook Pro is more of a side effect that can be taken advantage of then anything else.

A 2.4 GHz processor is a 2.4 GHz processor. Just don't touch Motion or Color.

I don't want to get too off topic here, but I see and understand your point. The API's and the features the hold are there it's just the documentation is either poor or non-existent. i.e Quicktime/QTKit. Apple does a very good job at protecting it's assets that it shows off to developers at WWDC. They do such a good job that the only thing you can do is a class dump and see what you get.

And amen to your last sentence. Which is precisely why I ordered the 2.53 MBP customized.

 

[Eidorian]

I don't want to get too off topic here, but I see and understand your point. The API's and the features the hold are there it's just the documentation is either poor or non-existent. i.e Quicktime/QTKit. Apple does a very good job at protecting it's assets that it shows off to developers at WWDC. They do such a good job that the only thing you can do is a class dump and see what you get.

A sad truth. Thankfully I work on the administration and deployment side rather then software development.

And amen to your last sentence. Which is precisely why I ordered the 2.53 MBP customized.

It still doesn't keep us Macbook users with FireWire 400 from using Final Cut Studio. We just might not be able to use ALL of it.

 

[kockgunner]

do you think Apple has something up their sleeves so they made the Macbook and the MBP so similar? You can't tell them apart apart from the size and the firewire port on the side. Even the box is exactly the same. The features don't differ greatly either since the Macbook has the same case and backlit keyboard as the Pro. The only thing the pro has over the regular Macbook, is the 9600, bigger screen, and firewire port. Is that worth the $700 admission price?

 

[Evangelion]

https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/582911/

I'm sorry, but you are wrong in that thread. Just because they changed the name, does not change the fact that MBP is the direct successor of the PowerBook. Therefore comparing it to the PowerBook is perfectly valid.

Or do you also think that Mac Pro and PowerMac G5 are totally unrelated products that should not be compared to each other in any shape or form? Byu that Logic, PowerMac G4 and PowerMac G5 are also totally unrelated, since the name is different.

 

[DARKJ3DI]

do you think Apple has something up their sleeves so they made the Macbook and the MBP so similar? You can't tell them apart apart from the size and the firewire port on the side. Even the box is exactly the same. The features don't differ greatly either since the Macbook has the same case and backlit keyboard as the Pro. The only thing the pro has over the regular Macbook, is the 9600, bigger screen, and firewire port. Is that worth the $700 admission price?

it also has a better graphics chip...

 

[Eidorian]

I'm sorry, but you are wrong in that thread. Just because they changed the name, does not change the fact that MBP is the direct successor of the PowerBook. Therefore comparing it to the PowerBook is perfectly valid.

Or do you also think that Mac Pro and PowerMac G5 are totally unrelated products that should not be compared to each other in any shape or form? Byu that Logic, PowerMac G4 and PowerMac G5 are also totally unrelated, since the name is different.

I think you should read that thread again. I never said that the MacBook Pro wasn't the successor to the PowerBook G4.

I stated that the PowerBook G4 had both FireWire 800 and 400 ports while the original MacBook Pro only had FireWire 400.

brand considers the MacBook Pro to be a new product that has no relation to the PowerBook G4.

 

[depulse]

Correct me if I'm wrong, but Apple sells a $999 notebook with FireWire for those who need it.

Which is using the Agere chipset that has proven incompatible with many firewire devices.

 

[cartooncartoon]

Random thoughts from an Apple Newbie

No Firewire Port
It's been at least 5 years since I've had a need for a Firewire port. I'm guessing that among the general computing population, it's a very small percentage that would actually miss this feature. If Apple's goal here is to target the great masses and keep costs down on their new entry-level notebook, I find it hard to fault them for that. The fact is that these days, it seems that Firewire has pretty much retreated to professional video, and, well, the 'Pro' in MacBook Pro might very well mean something. As for those with legacy Firewire drives or camcorders, I don't know how big of a minority you are. I'm sure that someone was offended when laptops stopped coming with serial and parallel ports, too.

Mini DisplayPort
I don't quite get the 'mini' part, either, as the regular connector doesn't seem that large. I also think that $29 seems a little steep for just a connection adapter, but if I'm willing to shell out $1800 for a loaded MacBook, it somehow seems less significant. As to DisplayPort over HDMI: From what I understand, it's cheaper to implement, while providing comparable performance.

Steve Jobs
I've read the "Evil Genius" article in Wired Magazine, and I've even talked to an engineer or two at Apple. Would I ever want to work for him? Probably not. But I think the innovation and quality coming out of Apple is head-and-shoulders above both its software and hardware competitors.

My MacBook is still en route from Shanghai, so I don't (yet) have any judgement on the glossy display and the keyboard. I do think the solid aluminum construction should be a big leap from the standard flimsy-plastic construction of my current notebook, though, and the photos look awesome.

 

[Eidorian]

I'm sure that someone was offended when laptops stopped coming with serial and parallel ports, too.

Actually serial and parallel ports are quite alive since USB carries on their legacy via adapters.

PS/2 ports are in dire need of a swift death though.

It's not just the audio and video people that are in trouble here. It's quite easy to forget IT professionals that use Target Disk Mode to perform a few miracles or system imaging.

 

[cartooncartoon]

Actually serial and parallel ports are quite alive since USB carries on their legacy via adapters.

That's a good point, although the only thing I've seen them used for is kernel debugging.

It's not just the audio and video people that are in trouble here. It's quite easy to forget IT professionals that use Target Disk Mode to perform a few miracles or system imaging.

There is "professional" again. My point with Firewire is that I don't think the vast majority of computer users have a use for it. From a practical standpoint, I can see why Apple dropped it. As far as isolating some existing users, well, they might have seen the discontent coming.

 

[djellison]

It's not really proprietary. Displayport and Mini Display port are industry standards,

So we will be seing non-apple adaptors then? A Dual-DVI adaptor for the new MB and MBP for less than £67 from someone like Belkin etc?

Doug

 

[Eidorian]

That's a good point, although the only thing I've seen them used for is kernel debugging.

I know a few printers in my old department that just didn't work on USB. There's also the fingerprint readers that you could only update via serial port.

There is "professional" again. My point with Firewire is that I don't think the vast majority of computer users have a use for it. From a practical standpoint, I can see why Apple dropped it. As far as isolating some existing users, well, they might have seen the discontent coming.

I knew you'd latch onto "professional". You're losing a great diagnostic, recovery, and problem solving tool for all users when you take away FireWire.

Not all of us have the budget to own a "professional" Mac laptop either. This even goes for education.

 

[Evangelion]

I think you should read that thread again. I never said that the MacBook Pro wasn't the successor to the PowerBook G4.

I stated that the PowerBook G4 had both FireWire 800 and 400 ports while the original MacBook Pro only had FireWire 400.

brand considers the MacBook Pro to be a new product that has no relation to the PowerBook G4.

Ah, so it is. My apologies for the confusion