MacBook and MacBook Pro Port Speculation

[michaelvoigt]

I started the firewire over ethernet cable rumor....

I researched it last night and posted to the previous thread. check the thread.

Does anyone know if it is possible? I suggested this possibility, but I have not seen it done...

Can a FW 800 cable plug in to a adapter and then a ethernet plugs in to the MacBook.

I imagine this would be great because almost 90% of the people will be on wireless and not be using the ethernet.

What made me think of this was the cool adapter that Apple bundled with the Macbook Air ... DVI-2-Ethernet

 

[corinhorn]

Because Apple used to charge FW use? So most PCs used USB, it became popular and now it'd be really hard to turn the trend.

I hope those at Apple are kicking themselves for that idiotic move.

 

[turd]

Although I agree, most Digi (LE System) interfaces are USB, but they don't work too well, especially with Core Audio, and they seem to be spending their sweet time with fixing the issue, but I think that's the digidesign way, buggers

where's the USB on the LE Rack?

 

[aleksandra.]

By the way, I have no idea why it would matter, but all FW standards (including FW over Ethernet one) are to be combined in one document, IEEE Std. 1394-2008. Which is expected to be made public mid October 2008.

Did I win in the most far-fetched speculation category?

 

[Christian G]

Remember the MBP battery rumor? If the battery really is one big long strip across the whole front, what can that first hole in the casing be? It would be weird to have some port there sprouting from the battery. My guess is battery clip...

 

[jayeskreezy]

HDMI would be awesome on the Macbook Pro!

can you explain what one would use HDMI on a macbook pro for? We haven't upgraded our SDTV stuff in the house yet

 

[blindzero]

It'd be silly to waste a port on HDMI. You can just have a DVI (or mini-DVI or micro-DVI or super-tiny-dual-DVI, whatever it is they've put there) to HDMI adapter for $20.

If it's got a Blu-Ray It wouldn't pass the inevitable copy protection that's gonna happen soon that may prevent 1080p from going through DVI, plus doesn't pass sound through DVI. HDMI is so much simpler than 2 cords (except for the fact that the lock on all my HDMI devices is so flimsy...plugging and unplugging will not be good for it).

 

[corinhorn]

I haven't read all the responses, but like I've been saying in much older posts, I think Apple got rid of the Ethernet port. I don't really use it on my MacBook, and you can get the Ethernet to USB adaptor they have for the MBA anyways.

I much rather prefer this method rather than having no frickin FireWire!

 

[Nepenthe]

I thought that Apple made Firewire an open standard, therefore there's no licence fee involved. I may be wrong?

Sounds like the answer is yes and no.

Found this after a short search:
http://www.teener.com/firewire_FAQ/#Stories

I can't testify to the legitimacy of this info - but it is consistent with what I was told years ago.

" What are the license fees?
US$ 0.25 per end user system. That means if a hub has 1394 functionality, then the manufacturer owes 25 cents per hub. On the other hand, if an automobile uses 1394 (and it will if it uses IDB-1394 for entertainment networking), then the automobile manufacturer owes 25 cents per automobile. The fees are paid to the 1394 Licensing Authority, which then distributes shares of the fees to the various patent holders (which include Apple, Sony, Canon, ST Microelectronics, Matsushita, etc, etc).

Apple allows anyone to use the name "FireWire" for free providing that they sign a trademark agreement. Using the phrase "FireWire compliant" requires a different process. "

and...

"After Steve Jobs came back to Apple, he was somehow convinced that Apple should change the game midstream and ask for $1 per port for the Apple patents (his argument was that it was consistent with the MPEG patent fees). I left Apple before Steve came back, so I have no idea how this really happened.

This annoyed everyone (including yours truly) immensely ... particularly Intel which had sunk a lot of effort into 1394 (the improved 1394a-2000 and 1394b-2002 standards are partly based on Intel work). The faction of Intel that doesn't like open standards like 1394 used this as an excuse to drop 1394 support and bring out USB 2 instead. (There are lots of other stories about this whole process, but this is my favorite).

Simultaneously, Sony and the other 1394 backers pushed hard back at Apple noting that they all had patents too .... and if Apple wanted $1 port, so did they ... which meant that Apple would have to pay about $15 to every else to do Firewire ... not a pleasant picture. The result was the "1394 Licensing Authority".
"

 

[myca]

where's the USB on the LE Rack?

Ok my bad, but all but one of the Mbox 2 family uses USB, granted the 003 family uses Firewire, so out of six interfaces 3 use USB, and 3 use Firewire, and of course the USB interfaces are a lot more budget aware, I just have an Mbox 2 Micro so I can edit stuff for work at home, but with Logic I use my MOTU 828 Mk3, didgidesign and core audio don't mix well, plus their better interfaces are fugly IMHO.

 

[hobbbz]

For anyone interested I measured the port in the pic and its dimensions are 16.6 mm x 4.14 mm or .654 in x .163 in.

I don't have an apple remote to compare it to but i would be interested to see if the remote would fit in this hole.

Anyone care to measure the remote?

 

[Loge]

By the way, I have no idea why it would matter, but all FW standards (including FW over Ethernet one) are to be combined in one document, IEEE Std. 1394-2008. Which is expected to be made public mid October 2008.

Did I win in the most far-fetched speculation category?

So FW has been going since 1394? Apple can't abandon it now !!

 

[Nepenthe]

Anyone who says its obsolete, or that USB Audio Interfaces use USB now, obviously have no idea what they are talking about.

USB interfaces don't use USB?

 

[myca]

USB interfaces don't use USB?

I have a feeling he meant 'Or that Firewire interfaces use USB now'

But I didn't feel like correcting him i got the point

 

[milenkod]

The rumors I heard are some models (Mackbooks I think, not necessarily MB Pros) will drop the FW400 and just have a FW800 port.

Also mentioned was support for something called "DisplayPort"...not sure what that is, exactly.

Glass trackpad with some type of textured surface to facilitate a better glide across the surface.

Everything I've "heard" seems consistent with what the typical rumor sites are reporting.

 

[corinhorn]

Sounds like the answer is yes and no.

Found this after a short search:
http://www.teener.com/firewire_FAQ/#Stories

I can't testify to the legitimacy of this info - but it is consistent with what I was told years ago.

" What are the license fees?
US$ 0.25 per end user system. That means if a hub has 1394 functionality, then the manufacturer owes 25 cents per hub. On the other hand, if an automobile uses 1394 (and it will if it uses IDB-1394 for entertainment networking), then the automobile manufacturer owes 25 cents per automobile. The fees are paid to the 1394 Licensing Authority, which then distributes shares of the fees to the various patent holders (which include Apple, Sony, Canon, ST Microelectronics, Matsushita, etc, etc).

Apple allows anyone to use the name "FireWire" for free providing that they sign a trademark agreement. Using the phrase "FireWire compliant" requires a different process. "

and...

"After Steve Jobs came back to Apple, he was somehow convinced that Apple should change the game midstream and ask for $1 per port for the Apple patents (his argument was that it was consistent with the MPEG patent fees). I left Apple before Steve came back, so I have no idea how this really happened.

This annoyed everyone (including yours truly) immensely ... particularly Intel which had sunk a lot of effort into 1394 (the improved 1394a-2000 and 1394b-2002 standards are partly based on Intel work). The faction of Intel that doesn't like open standards like 1394 used this as an excuse to drop 1394 support and bring out USB 2 instead. (There are lots of other stories about this whole process, but this is my favorite).

Simultaneously, Sony and the other 1394 backers pushed hard back at Apple noting that they all had patents too .... and if Apple wanted $1 port, so did they ... which meant that Apple would have to pay about $15 to every else to do Firewire ... not a pleasant picture. The result was the "1394 Licensing Authority".
"

Thanks for the education. I greatly appreciate it.

 

[myca]

So FW has been going since 1394? Apple can't abandon it now !!

They actually designed it in 1391, headed by Steve Jobs Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great, Great Grandfather, but couldn't get the spec finalised until 1394!

 

[corinhorn]

I don't have an apple remote to compare it to but i would be interested to see if the remote would fit in this hole.

Seems like a waste of space to me.

 

[aleksandra.]

For anyone interested I measured the port in the pic and its dimensions are 16.6 mm x 4.14 mm or .654 in x .163 in.

I don't have an apple remote to compare it to but i would be interested to see if the remote would fit in this hole.

Anyone care to measure the remote?

Actual port would be a bit smaller than the hole in the casing, although I don't know how much precisely (I don't have a MacBook to compare).

Anyway, the dimensions exclude HDMI - types A and B are too big, type C has different proportions (and is smaller than USB).

 

[turd]

Ok my bad, but all but one of the Mbox 2 family uses USB, granted the 003 family uses Firewire, so out of six interfaces 3 use USB, and 3 use Firewire, and of course the USB interfaces are a lot more budget aware, I just have an Mbox 2 Micro so I can edit stuff for work at home, but with Logic I use my MOTU 828 Mk3.

Yeah all of the cheaper interfaces use USB...
my point is that firewire is heavily used in media... Especially for someone tracking drums. They need the firewire hard drive as well.

 

[Duncan-Idaho]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_1 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5F136 Safari/525.20)

There is a chance that they are just MacBooks (lowcost+new 15'') and we haven't seen Pro yet.

What so low cost they can't put a $10 chip and port on the board? What's next to cut costs an improve profits? Ship a machine without a keyboard or LCD? I use Firewire just as much as I use the keyboard. Apple are just a as greed drive as any other corporation now days they don't give a stuff about technology and it users. More important to them is their shareholders interest to make more money , how much money do they need? anyways they have multi billions in the bank.

shut up and wait until tuesday. Goddamn you'd think some people had their families abducted the way they're acting. "No, it's not possible, not my FIREWIRE!". Go buy a mac that's actually good for video editing and stop depending on your plastic MB. Oh, and don't buy crappy external hard drives that only use FW 400.

 

[macguitarman]

USB for Audio? Uh, No, Sorry, totally wrong

USB for pro sumer and pro audio and video is Not, Repeat, not prevalent

- Apogee = Firewire

- MOTU = Firewire (MOTU killed their USB 2 audio interface, straight from MOTU, "Nobody buys it, it sucks"

RME = Firewire (800)

Just to name a few

Another thing: Is there one, just one video camera, DV, HDV, DVCPRO, XDCAM, etc, that does video capture AND device control over USB.

Not one (that I know of), why?, USB was not designed for audio-video transport or device control in mind, real time, etc.

I would be totally shocked if FW is totally gone from the MacBook, and any FW on the MacBook, would have to be the FW 800 spec (minimum) and port.

Also don't forget FW 3200 was just ratified this past spring, so I expect FW 3200 on the MB Pro, not just the older 800 spec.

USB only on iPods, who cares?, iPods are consumer and commodity products and they are using USB for data transfer, not for D to A, A to D, very important.

If Apple chooses to Nix FW on the MacBook, I know many an audio and video guy who will Not buying a MacBook, including myself, and as an Apple certified pro engineer, not recommending a MB to these users.

If Apple can do FW over the Ethernet RJ-45, fine, but will this allow the new spec of 3.2 Gigabit Firewire. I know CAT6 tops out at 1 Gb / s, perhaps over a little mini fiber cable setup, that would be cool.

Ever try copying 200 to 500 plus GB over FW 400, set aside 4 hours plus, even over FW 800. We all welcome FW 3.2 Gb with open arms.

 

[macguitarman]

USB for Audio-Video? Uh, No, Sorry, Totally Wrong

USB for pro sumer and pro audio and video is Not, Repeat, not prevalent

- Apogee = Firewire

- MOTU = Firewire (MOTU killed their USB 2 audio interface, straight from MOTU, "Nobody buys it, it sucks"

RME = Firewire (800)

Just to name a few

Another thing: Is there one, just one video camera, DV, HDV, DVCPRO, XDCAM, etc, that does video capture AND device control over USB.

If no FW on the MacBook, Apple is just telling everyone doing audio video to buy the more expensive (and much more expensive and bulky 15" MBP)

Not one (that I know of), why?, USB was not designed for audio-video transport or device control in mind, real time, etc.

I would be totally shocked if FW is totally gone from the MacBook, and any FW on the MacBook, would have to be the FW 800 spec (minimum) and port.

Also don't forget FW 3200 was just ratified this past spring, so I expect FW 3200 on the MB Pro, not just the older 800 spec.

USB only on iPods, who cares?, iPods are consumer and commodity products and they are using USB for data transfer, not for D to A, A to D, very important.

If Apple chooses to Nix FW on the MacBook, I know many an audio and video guy who will Not buying a MacBook, including myself, and as an Apple certified pro engineer, not recommending a MB to these users.

If Apple can do FW over the Ethernet RJ-45, fine, but will this allow the new spec of 3.2 Gigabit Firewire. I know CAT6 tops out at 1 Gb / s, perhaps over a little mini fiber cable setup, that would be cool.

Ever try copying 200 to 500 plus GB over FW 400, set aside 4 hours plus, even over FW 800. We all welcome FW 3.2 Gb with open arms.

Also, If Apple chooses to Nix FW on the MB, that is a message to Apple laptop would be purchasers, to buy the more expensive 15" MBP

And to the above post, about the "plastic" MB for video editing, (what does the plastic have to do with it), although I do agree, the plastic on the MB's plain suck, they crack easily, but this is another point, and it looks like this will be addressed, all aluminum.

But this is just plain ignorant. Most pro audio-video people will also have a Mac Pro in addition to their Mac laptop, but to imply the MB can not do FCP video or pro audio is ignorant. The MB and MBP are exactly the same specs, except for the lame Intel graphics on the MB, but soon to be addressed.

With Snow Leopard and if the rumors of the nVidia chipset coming in these new laptops are true, this will be awesome. Snow Leopard with Open CL will be able to utilize the graphics chips, which can do trillions of calcs / sec, versus the Intel CPU's billions, IOW, exponential speed up for say H.264 encode times, FCP effects, Logic DSP, any audio video. I say a company like Universal Audio, better start re coding their hardware dependent plugins and make them Open CL, because with this tech, additional hardware DSP will become unnecessary.

 

[Joe The Dragon]

I believe that the extreme left ports on the new supposedly MBP casing are the Esata ports and new Apple Remote window.

The circular dot happens to be on the MB case but not on MBP.

I believe the Apple Remote works, even on the left hand side of the MBP as I have used my remote and not pointing directly at the machine and it will still work.

The assumed Esata port is nearest to the Hard disk location...(usually on the left side for newer models-not all). I believe a direct cable connection (shortest) route to the drive connection is the reason.

That small port may be digital audio out

 

[The Man]

What's with all the apologists here? If I'm buying a $1000 MacBook, I want it to have FireWire. So FireWire is on its way out, you say, most peripherals have USB anyway, and only professionals need it and they will choose a "Pro" MacBook over the normal MacBook. What kind of crap talk is that? There is a huge crowd of people who have invested in FireWire peripherals. This is not a small "professional" crowd. While Apple is focussing on new-to-Mac users now, the longtime Mac users who want to buy a new computer is still big. And Apple needs the loyal base. Apple is just screwing them over. There is a huge crowd of people who have bought DV and HDV cameras that work only over FireWire (on the Mac, anyway). These cameras may only be one year old. Heck, you can still buy consumer HDV camera's from Sony and Canon, and these need FireWire. So Apple just screws them over. Heck, Apple even sells Final Cut Express for these people who use HDV, and also sells Logic Express. These are targeted at normal consumers who want to do a bit more. So these people with a HDV and DV camcorders, or home enthusiast musicians using these apps are screwed when they want to buy an entry level Mac notebook? They should just buy an iMac or an even more expensive MacBook Pro, you say? Because what's a couple more hundreds of dollars for these people anyway, right?

Apple also did this with iPod owners, when they ditched FireWire (12V) battery charging. Now the new iPods won't even charge with most of the sound docks, car stereo systems, and more. People have invested in their iPod system, and the Made for iPod logo doesn't mean anything. Apple has screwed them over. All these old, and even new iPod Docks are useless when you buy a new iPod. Heck, even Apple's own iPod HiFi system doesn't charge your new iPod anymore. Great! What you say: Just buy a new Dock? Or simply don't buy a new iPod? And buy a second hand on eBay when you do need a new one?

Some people can only buy one new computer. Say you have $1000-1199 to spend as a consumer. You can either buy a MacBook or an iMac. The price is about same. If you need a portable, you scrap the iMac. But you won't be getting FireWire for the same price? You have to buy an expensive Pro designated piece of equipment just to get that FireWire in a portable? I'm sorry, but these people who are saying that scrapping FireWire on the MacBook is something insignificant are just laughable to me.

Having said all of this, I do think that Apple could be introducing a combo Ethernet/FireWire port (S800T).