MacBook Pro 17" Battery Replacement $179 and Other Notes

[manu chao]

Please don't tell me you buy a computer every 6 months or so when apple introduces a new revison/model

No, but I put a new hard drive about once per year. Essentially a new drives goes in right after purchase since usually Apple does not offer the fastest and largest (or charge a lot for it). From then on, whenever a larger 7200 rpm drive becomes available, I put it in.
Over the last five years, I had about five new drives put into my laptops (I own only one at a time), four superdrives replaced (all on warranty) and one battery replaced on warranty. RAM I did access to usually only once every three years, ie, when I buy a new laptop and max out the RAM on it.
Of the four laptops I owned, I only had a second battery for the first one and I only used it two or three times in total.

 

[hiptobesquare]

First of all, that problem has been fixed.

Second of all, if it cropped up again, why do you think they wouldn't replace the swollen case?

Are you just imagining they wouldn't?

I have a little additional experience with LiPo batteries from my RC helicopter hobby, in addition to working with Apple and PC laptops professionally as IT support in an academic design setting for more than 5 years, and a technician of various sorts for about 10 years...

Lithium Polymer batteries sometimes swell if they get discharged below 3.5 volts per cell, or if they get shorted without much resistance, or any number of other reasons of electrical failure modes than can damage batteries. it is an inherent aspect of that sort of chemical battery, it has the possibility of swelling, and if it breaks it's envelope, it will react violently with oxygen, and combust very dangerously. It does not happen often. But it is a catastrophe when it does.

It doesn't just get 'fixed', it merely becomes less common by better design, perhaps. The possibility is never reduced to zero.

Not all of the swollen MBP batteries I have sent in have been replaced for free. Some of them were denied, and then the user is hit up for the bill for a new battery. The swollen battery is not safe to continue to use.

IF they continue that policy of picking and choosing, and the new unibody machines start to see battery swelling or even worse ruptures, it isn't going to be just a battery replacement for a hundred bucks or so. it will be several hundred, or more than a thousand dollars, and possible destruction of the machine itself, if it overheats other components, or causes a lithium-fed fire.

That is why the concept of batteries not being covered after the first year is at odds with this built-in business. It leaves Apple to use discretion whether non-damage-induced battery defects are covered or not covered, without a hard rule, without a contractual policy, and without a whole lot of recourse for the user.

The AppleCare policy so far hasn't deviated, and still says that defects, but not accidental damage, are covered for computer hardware up to 3 years, if purchased.

It does not say that all non-accidental-damage induced *battery* defects are covered for that long, or damage caused to the computer by the battery. The battery itself seems to still only be covered by *policy* for one year, and tinkering around inside the computer, for battery, HDD, RAM, or any other reason, in the latter two years of extended warranty can potentially void warranty claims, otherwise, if damage is caused. (again, if tinkering doesn't happen to result in damage, by luck or by caution, there is no claim to deny, but one slip can change everything at that point.)

 

[Srai-W]

With the iPod, the iPhone, the MBA, and now the 17" MBP it looks like the sealed battery has become Apple's preferred method of overcoming the battery life hurdle. I'd be willing to bet the 15" MBP and the MBs will get the sealed treatment eventually as well so get use to it or get Windows.

You know that is exactly what I was just wondering... For me I don't know if it is something I would be worried about or not. My 12" PB G4 had the battery replaced, but I have never done so myself - even though it is as simple as turning the "lock" and sliding it out. I guess over the next 12 months or so we will see what happens and if decides it is the best thing for the market...

 

[dantheman8282]

It does appear to be arbitrary, as it was when HP with a Tablet PC decided to replace my screen that was scratched from a defective Tablet pen eraser they had shipped. That may be pushing those limits but I only had my word that a very new laptop was not accidentally scratched by something other than a pen.

Anyway, what is a good price you might pay for accidental damage coverage (in addition to what is the cost of the 3-year Apple care)?

That is why the concept of batteries not being covered after the first year is at odds with this built-in business. It leaves Apple to use discretion whether non-damage-induced battery defects are covered or not covered, without a hard rule, without a contractual policy, and without a whole lot of recourse for the user.

 

[Cloudane]

I'm curious how many of the people crying about the battery are/were actually in the market for a 17" MBP in the first place. (As opposed to just complaining 'cause it's fun)

The 17" model starts at $2799 and is aimed at professionals, probably buying them through their business. Do you really think $179 after 5 years of continuous use is going to bother their target market? Heck after that time they'll probably have upgraded. Twice.

It's a non-issue, folks. Even with the HDD and RAM. The target market can afford to pay to have these things done professionally and will happily do so, which is probably why Apple aren't bending over backwards to ensure that they don't have to (yep, more $$$ too, they're a company that's how they work)

In all likelihood, the very few personal power users who want and can afford this model once but can't afford to replace the battery (getting into consumer debt? In this climate? You must be maaaad!) can simply undo a few screws and replace it with an aftermarket one easily enough like with the Air and the iPods that came before it. The HDD and RAM that way too. If it's a "want to work the full day on battery" issue I'm sure there will be third party batteries that use the magsafe connector.

 

[hiptobesquare]

It does appear to be arbitrary, as it was when HP with a Tablet PC decided to replace my screen that was scratched from a defective Tablet pen eraser they had shipped. That may be pushing those limits but I only had my word that a very new laptop was not accidentally scratched by something other than a pen.

Anyway, what is a good price you might pay for accidental damage coverage (in addition to what is the cost of the 3-year Apple care)?

With as much damage as I see, I would probably pay double what extended AppleCare goes for, if they would add accidental damage coverage.

I buy in bulk, once a year, so it may be a point of negotiation, and I am not a regular consumer looking at a single up-front price-tag, so a regular consumer might balk at what I would pay.

But after seeing what can happen, and having to buy and claim on the insurance to cover accidental damage outside of AppleCare, it would be worth it to me to be able to send a damaged computer in, and have it covered the same way an AppleCare claim currently is. Even if it had a cosmetic out-clause for Apple, so that Apple didn't have to cover mere cosmetic dings to the aluminum skin, that would be acceptable.

But internal damage, cracked screens, and various other damage-induced destruction would be nice to have covered, and I do buy accidental damage coverage when I buy the Windows-based laptops that I support, and it is well worth it. All the same damage happens from time to time, and it is just covered, fixed, and back in service, with no muss, no fuss with insurance paperwork, or other undue complications.

I have asked my Apple reps for years to get me that coverage, and I keep getting a non-committal "we're looking into possibly offering it in the future..." from Apple's sales reps. It hasn't changed.

I'm curious how many of the people crying about the battery are/were actually in the market for a 17" MBP in the first place. (As opposed to just complaining 'cause it's fun)

The 17" model starts at $2799 and is aimed at professionals, probably buying them through their business. Do you really think $179 after 5 years of continuous use is going to bother their target market? Heck after that time they'll probably have upgraded. Twice.

It's a non-issue, folks. Even with the HDD and RAM. The target market can afford to pay to have these things done professionally and will happily do so, which is probably why Apple aren't bending over backwards to ensure that they don't have to (yep, more $$$ too, they're a company that's how they work)

I buy at least 60 of them EVERY year for users who order them. And I have paid between 2700-3100 per unit, before a slight bulk discount. (VERY slight, compared to PC vendors, who are hungry to sell) They have been 2700-3100 for many years, depending on where my buying cycle is, compared to the prior model upgrade date.

All of our computers have a minimum 3 year service life, and are usually stretched out to 5 viable years of service. There is no upgrade every year. I could in no way afford to implement that. If someone is replacing a $3000 pro laptop EVERY year as a business expense, they had better be doing a whole hell of a lot better than the rest of the economy is doing right now. I don't equip CEOs, either. I equip end users who actually learn and work on these machines every day.

Businesses, higher ed, and all those have budgets to meet. NOW more than ever. Planning on a 180$ battery replacement for 60 units per year EVERY year, adds up. $10,800, to be exact. And 60 units is a low baseline estimate, we usually have a few more than that, and some computers have battery problems before they are supposed to.

Ten thousand dollars for budgeted battery services is a whole lot of money, that if the batteries were less expensive, and were user serviceable, without paying Apple labor charges, I could afford to re-allocate some of that money, or simply cut my costs.

I am not sure where you are getting your info that business, government, or education dollars just grow on trees, but let me assure you, they most certainly do not, and as an employee, I certainly am not seeing rampant spending in my wages, either.

Try getting your budget CUT mid-fiscal year, due to the economy, and pretty sure that you won't be getting a raise in the next annual cycle. Then come talk to me about throwing money around.

 

[/dev/toaster]

I'm curious how many of the people crying about the battery are/were actually in the market for a 17" MBP in the first place. (As opposed to just complaining 'cause it's fun)

You do realize this is the same argument that was used for the MBA. Many people sided with Apple saying they are doing it to make the laptop very portable and they won't introduce it to other products.

This is just the beginning of the end I am afraid. In a few months or maybe a year, I am willing to bet that the 15" will have it or maybe the MB. The same argument will be used again.

Personally, I am not buying another 17". But, I need to get a 15" in the next year ... and I will *NOT* buy one with a non-replaceable battery.

Apple is heading down a dangerous path.

 

[gnasher729]

That's a valid, and yet mute point: wouldn't a hard drive die out in less than five years (more like 3-4)? It's hard for me to imagine someone using a laptop for more than 5 years - especially someone who cares enough to buy the top-of-the-line version (most likely a power user or designer of some sort).

Progress in processor development has slowed down. If you buy a 17" MacBook Pro today, then I am sure that in five years time someone will be very happy to use it. I suppose the original buyer will have bought a replacement, but I think it will still be a decent computer for someone.

Yes, hard drives are quite likely to break done earlier than in five years time. (And they _will_ break down, that is why Time Machine is a must). When that happens, a 500 GB hard drive will be cheap. We'll know soon how easy the hard drive is to replace.

On the other hand, if the battery is down to 80% capacity after 1000 charges, that is still more than six hours. That's more than any other MacBook had when it was brand new. Many people won't find any need to replace the battery.

 

[La Porta]

I'm not sure what you guys do to destroy your batteries. I have 132 load cycles on my 17" original MBP's battery...and I still have over 90% capacity. Do you guys not fully drain the battery and just plug it in whenever? I don't care about all this BS with "you can recharge LIon batteries all the time...no memory effect!" Maybe it isn't memory effect, but it sure is something. Just discharge the whole thing, let it sit for a while, and the juice it back up. It really works.

 

[Djcyder]

I'm not sure it would slow down. Have you actually measured that you need a full 400Mbps on your sound card?

There's also expresscard firewire cards.

I doubt I need the full amount of bandwidth in fw to run four audio outputs. I've seen it done a lot over usb. However in my business one doesn't take any chances. So having everything on a dedicated bus is key for me. I wouldn't want any sound drops with a full dance floor of people. Beside Apple has been notorious for usb dropout problems and shared interrupts with the track pad on the right usb port on the now classic mbp. I'm also accessing a ton of data every second I need the fastest hdd access time possible to load dvd video files as quickly as possible and not being bothered by extra cards and such.

 

[coffey7]

I'm not sure what you guys do to destroy your batteries. I have 132 load cycles on my 17" original MBP's battery...and I still have over 90% capacity. Do you guys not fully drain the battery and just plug it in whenever? I don't care about all this BS with "you can recharge LIon batteries all the time...no memory effect!" Maybe it isn't memory effect, but it sure is something. Just discharge the whole thing, let it sit for a while, and the juice it back up. It really works.

I do that with my panasonic toughbook and it gets over 5 hours. So many people just charge the notebook all the time. I have a friend who never takes his laptop off his desk but keeps the battery in charging all the time. He ruins batteries all the time. No one ever reads instructions anymore.

 

[vaal]

Ummmm. Do the math.

Businesses, higher ed, and all those have budgets to meet. NOW more than ever. Planning on a 180$ battery replacement for 60 units per year EVERY year, adds up. $10,800, to be exact. And 60 units is a low baseline estimate, we usually have a few more than that, and some computers have battery problems before they are supposed to.

Here's the flaw in your reasoning: you don't compare it to the alternative. If those laptops all had removable batteries like the unibody 15", they'd need replacing about every 2 years, at $129 dollars apiece! That's an average of 150 batteries per year x $129 = $19,350! Why would you complain about something that looks to nearly halve your costs? Perhaps "Businesses, higher ed, and all those" would have an easier time meeting their budgets if they actually put some careful thought into them. I'm just sayin'.

 

[carloslegarda]

Media card reader? That would be nice, I dont know of anyone who uses the USB cable with their camera. its a cable, apple doesnt like cables.

You could spend 20 bucks on a external media card reader, but why not have it already preinstalled?



thats why there are "pro" laptops out there.

If Apple doesn't like cables, then why do they have an adapter for pretty much anything useful?

External Optical Drive for MBA uses a cable
DVI to VGA adapter is a cable
USB Modem is another short cable

they don't have an internal media card reader because Apple now is going minimalist. They used to give you everything you need even before you thought you needed it (e.g. FireWire on EVERY Mac) BUT not they're going the traditional PC route of giving you the bare bones and removing everything THEY think you don't need (e.g. Modem, FireWire400 port, optical drive, access to battery, matte screen, trackpad button, and the list goes on...)

 

[Electro Funk]

And just how would it connect? Evidently nobody has access to manufacture their own socket for MagSafe power input to the laptops... Maybe that will change... but it still seems like a less ideal situation than having a replaceable battery, for other reasons.

would connect like this...

http://www.batterygeek.net/SearchResults.asp?Cat=78

 

[.Chris]

I'm curious how many of the people crying about the battery are/were actually in the market for a 17" MBP in the first place. (As opposed to just complaining 'cause it's fun)

The 17" model starts at $2799 and is aimed at professionals, probably buying them through their business. Do you really think $179 after 5 years of continuous use is going to bother their target market? Heck after that time they'll probably have upgraded. Twice.

It's a non-issue, folks. Even with the HDD and RAM. The target market can afford to pay to have these things done professionally and will happily do so, which is probably why Apple aren't bending over backwards to ensure that they don't have to (yep, more $$$ too, they're a company that's how they work)

In all likelihood, the very few personal power users who want and can afford this model once but can't afford to replace the battery (getting into consumer debt? In this climate? You must be maaaad!) can simply undo a few screws and replace it with an aftermarket one easily enough like with the Air and the iPods that came before it. The HDD and RAM that way too. If it's a "want to work the full day on battery" issue I'm sure there will be third party batteries that use the magsafe connector.

Couldn't agree with you more

You do realize this is the same argument that was used for the MBA. .

You do realize this is the same argument for ANY apple product as soon as it comes out...?

 

[petermcphee]

I highly dobut most here will even buy one or even intrested in a new machine. Seems like every new mac that comes out people always say "I'm going to buy one"

I believe you are probably correct.

 

[uber_nerd]

I don't understand the negativity

Not owning a MBA I have never bothered looking for any comparisons, but I am sure they are out there. I do know that my 4.5-5 hour battery has only ever lasted 2 hours even when running minimal apps with brightness down. The 2 hour mark has now gone down to about 1 hour of real usage. The only reason I can find this somewhat dealable is because I am able to take a spare battery with me.

I keep hearing about people having poor battery life, but I have never experienced this personally. For the record I have owned a PowerBook G3 (Pismo), the Powerbook G4 Aluminum, and now a MacBook Pro (Matte screen). The G3 would get 8 hours with two batteries (it had a removable bay). The Powerbook G4 would get 3.5-4 hours and the MacBook Pro gets 5+ hours. The amazing thing about my G4 is that the batteries maintained 92% of their original capacity some 300+ charge cycles later (3yrs).

With Lithium ion the key was not to deep cycle (full discharge) too often, but to keep them working with small usage recharge cycles. With the new Lithium Polymer (MacBooks) I don't believe there are any such secrets, just use them.

Perhaps I will get flamed for saying this, but from my experience I like the direction Apple is taking. A computer should be like a pencil, you should just use it. When you turn it on it should run for a good number of hours so you can focus on your work. You shouldn't have to remember to bring the spare along, you shouldn't have to remember keep the spare charged, and you definitely shouldn't have to remember exercise said spare so it keeps it's capacity.

I would gladly give up my spare for a single larger capacity battery built into my current machine, especially if this wonder battery lasts 5 years. By that time I will be buying a new computer anyway.

I suspect the complaints arise from those who like to tinker with computers, or like the idea that the could one day tinker with their computer if the need arose. If I want to waste away the hours configuring and reconfiguring my computer I will buy a windows or Linux machine. As a "professional" I couldn't care less. I use my laptop to write papers, prepare talks, edit figures and write the odd script. A machine that is easy to carry, and has a nice keyboard, good screen, decent trackpad and excellent battery is all I want out of a laptop.

As for the more difficult RAM and HD replacement. I think it is a none issue. Before you start frothing at the mouth and burn down my house, sit down and honestly ask your self how much time you spend changing the RAM versus how much time you spend actually using your computer. Personally, I change the RAM once, when I max it out upon first purchase. I would gladly exchange a couple minutes of time that I spend once in the computer's lifetime, for a much cleaner, thinner machine that I use for a number of hours each day.

The computer tech I get to install the RAM will of course have a different opinion.

 

[3.1416]

I do that with my panasonic toughbook and it gets over 5 hours. So many people just charge the notebook all the time. I have a friend who never takes his laptop off his desk but keeps the battery in charging all the time. He ruins batteries all the time. No one ever reads instructions anymore.

In fairness, it's silly to expect users to micromanage their battery status. At a minimum there should be a setting in the OS that says "I'm almost always plugged in, allow the battery to discharge".

 

[Moler]

Wirelessly posted (Mozilla/5.0 (iPhone; U; CPU iPhone OS 2_2 like Mac OS X; en-us) AppleWebKit/525.18.1 (KHTML, like Gecko) Version/3.1.1 Mobile/5G77 Safari/525.20)

Don't complain. If this is not for you, then don't buy it. I am curious about the RAM being user replacable.

People can complain all they like.
If this is not for you, then don't read their complaining!!!

 

[Moler]

Just discharge the whole thing, let it sit for a while, and the juice it back up. It really works.

Yes it is really easy to organize a life around needs of a computer battery.

 

[rstansby]

I think it is obvious that some people (like me) think this is a great idea, while others think it is a bad idea. In the past there was no choice, all Mac laptops had removable batteries. Now there are options for both camps. Choice is good. The people who "need" to have a replaceable battery have that option with other Mac laptops. The people who would prefer not waste space and money on a battery that will rarely (or never) be replaced have that option too. It's just like a car, the battery is replaceable, but tools are required, and most people will have to have it replaced by a professional.

 

[rstansby]

Yes it is really easy to organize a life around needs of a computer battery.

Assuming you take a break from working on the computer (to sleep for example) then it shouldn't be hard to find a way to drain the battery, leave it sitting for a few hours and then charge it back up.

 

[jbrenn]

i think that apple got pissed off at all the people that returned their notebook because of "loose" battery covers that they decided to do this. i also believe that the next update in two months or so all notebooks will not have user replaceable batteries.

 

[rstansby]

You know that is exactly what I was just wondering... For me I don't know if it is something I would be worried about or not. My 12" PB G4 had the battery replaced, but I have never done so myself - even though it is as simple as turning the "lock" and sliding it out. I guess over the next 12 months or so we will see what happens and if decides it is the best thing for the market...

The market will decide what is best for itself. If the market wants sealed batteries then apple will continue to make laptops with sealed batteries. If the market wants replaceable batteries then Apple will stop making laptops with sealed batteries. It really is that simple.

 

[Drag'nGT]

That $179 is what they estimate the cost to be right now. If 5yrs from now you need a new battery the price may be much cheaper just like with any technology. It's more money at the beginning but it reduces over time. I like the idea and wish it had been for the other two as well. 8+hrs battery life on a macbook... I'd buy it.