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That $179 is what they estimate the cost to be right now. If 5yrs from now you need a new battery the price may be much cheaper just like with any technology. It's more money at the beginning but it reduces over time. I like the idea and wish it had been for the other two as well. 8+hrs battery life on a macbook... :D:cool: I'd buy it.

8 hours on ANY cousmer machine is great. Most 17" laptops go around 2.5- 3 hours...
 
MBP 17" HD and RAM are user replaceable (image)

Take a look at this screenshot from Apple's MBP battery video -- it's only ten screws to take off the bottom cover. Then it looks like an easy job to change HD and RAM. Note how both the HD and the battery appear to have pull tabs! (So much for non-removable.)
 

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Is the battery really 8 hours? Like the 15 inch Pro's have 5 hours according to Apple but nobody ever really gets 5 hours!
 
All the complaints about non-removable batteries! Whine, whine, whine....

Seriously- how many of you here have a second battery for your laptop and carry it with you? Same with the iPod/iPhone complaints about battery- how often have you actually removed the battery from a competing product?

I've owned many a mobile and the only time I've ever removed the battery was to access the sim card- if it was located somewhere other than under the battery I'd have had no need to remove it. Period. Same goes for every laptop I've ever owned- only removed if necessity dictated such as to access the internals.

And how many of you here are/were considering purchasing a 17" MacBook Pro anyway- about as many as own/use a second replacement laptop battery I'd guess.
 
Is the battery really 8 hours? Like the 15 inch Pro's have 5 hours according to Apple but nobody ever really gets 5 hours!

It all depends on how you use the system. End of story.

how many of you here are/were considering purchasing a 17" MacBook Pro anyway- about as many as own/use a second replacement laptop battery I'd guess.

not many. Seems they always say "i'm gonna get one" everytime a new mac comes out...... its pathetic :rolleyes:

Now, I know there may be some that are serous about it, and are in fact getting one. but I know most just say it to be cool..
 
From a serious buyer

@Goliath
"And how many of you here are/were considering purchasing a 17" MacBook Pro anyway- about as many as own/use a second replacement laptop battery I'd guess."

Actually, I am planning to purchase one, truly. It's going to require me to put in overtime and get some new clients, but for me to obtain that beautiful machine will be well worth the effort.

The eight hour battery life seals the deal. With my current MBP 15" I have to carry a power brick. Not having to do so with the larger 17" will pretty much zero-out the weight difference.
 
This could be a good thing. But why?

If you buy a 17" MBP you are making a long term investment (+ you'll need a wheelbarrow or a porter to have it moved). Within a year or two there will be much better batteries than today (incidentally that is about the same time needed for your average laptop battery to really start to suck) and would it not be nice to just get yourself a nice new battery with even better performance? Obviously not for Apple but for you.

The good thing? If it creates a performance advantage over replaceable batteries it is of cource a good thing!

Edit: I have now had a look at the pictures of the inside of the MBP 17 and it looks as a piece of cake to change the battery yourself. Now 3P:s just have to start making batteries, putting pressure on Apples prices.
 
If you buy a 17" MBP you are making a long term investment (+ you'll need a wheelbarrow or a porter to have it moved). Within a year or two there will be much better batteries than today (incidentally that is about the same time needed for your average laptop battery to really start to suck) and would it not be nice to just get yourself a nice new battery with even better performance? Obviously not for Apple but for you.

So according to you I should be able to find a replacement battery for my MacBook (2 1/2 years old) that lasts longer than the original 5 hours. Where can I find it? Please tell me.
 
My Thinkpad (no Macs at work) had a battery recall about 4 months after I got it....the batteries were catching fire at an alarming rate.

So, yeah...I don't have a backup battery...but it was sure nice to send-in my battery and get a replacement while still having the use of my laptop.

For Apple's sake, I hope there isn't a battery recall on these things -- life will not be good for all the new MBP owners.

As far as the 179 replacement cost in 5 years.....I've yet to see anything Apple really stick around for 5 years -- I'll hope you can even GET one of these batteries replaced in 5 years. :)

Apple has really lost me as a notebook customer. I have a MacPro at home (and I'm a musician), and had planned on buying a MacBook to complement my MacPro and handle the occasional on-the-road recording duty. The lack of FW on the new MB's killed that idea...and the pros are just too expensive to go along with the MacPro [that is, if I was only buying one machine, the MPB may be the one for me, but a MacPro + a MBP is too much Apple for my wife's financial tolerance].

I am glad there is at least a FW800 port on the new MBP -- and the option for a matte screen. We'll see how the non-removable battery works in the long run. Maybe some solar panels on the other side of the display in case you are stuck on a long flight and can snag a window seat???

Peace..D
 
Just 2 thoughts:

Re: MacBook Pro 17" NON-REMOVABLE Battery
1) When a professional photographer in the field (literally) needs to use their laptop for more than 5-8 hours of use, and they are not near a power source, what recourse do they have? If I'm not mistaken. They cannot charge the laptop because they have no external power source. They have no option for user-replaceable batteries. So... HOW exactly is this laptop any more than a hunk of useless metal when one needs MORE than 5-8 hours of power in an environment fully detached from external power sources.

1) Take the new MBP 17" to on-location film shoot and you get exactly the same problems. Honesty, not a single moving image professional gives a flying fu*k if you need to carry extra battery. Its about the possibility to carry that battery.

IMHO, Apple is more and more consumer oriented company and seems to turn their backs on the needs of creative professionals. Look at the MacBookPro's (slow, no bluray, less ports then previously, non-removable battery, average graphics etc.). MacPro's are slow and dated as are their displays not to mention their pro apps such as FCP Studio suit. FCP needs an update and it needs it badly in order to compete with the rest but it seems Apple would like to axe stuff like that in order to concentrate on the next iThing.

Couple a years ago Apple bought Nothing Real and got Shake and extremely high end turn key suit called Tremor (three versions). Tremor got axed (no Final Cut Extreme) and few years later it was same with Shake. What we got out of this was few plugs for FCP and now it seems stabilizer plug for iMovie... Apple has set it sights on consumers and forgotten the creative professionals fore sure.

I believe most active participants of this forum are students or non creative fanboys who like the "cool stuff". Its not what brings food on the table for them. Its very hard for them to understand what creative pro's need especially if you see the world thru apple tinted glasses.
 
1) Take the new MBP 17" to on-location film shoot and you get exactly the same problems. Honesty, not a single moving image professional gives a flying fu*k if you need to carry extra battery. Its about the possibility to carry that battery.

IMHO, Apple is more and more consumer oriented company and seems to turn their backs on the needs of creative professionals. Look at the MacBookPro's (slow, no bluray, less ports then previously, non-removable battery, average graphics etc.). MacPro's are slow and dated as are their displays not to mention their pro apps such as FCP Studio suit. FCP needs an update and it needs it badly in order to compete with the rest but it seems Apple would like to axe stuff like that in order to concentrate on the next iThing.

Couple a years ago Apple bought Nothing Real and got Shake and extremely high end turn key suit called Tremor (three versions). Tremor got axed (no Final Cut Extreme) and few years later it was same with Shake. What we got out of this was few plugs for FCP and now it seems stabilizer plug for iMovie... Apple has set it sights on consumers and forgotten the creative professionals fore sure.

I believe most active participants of this forum are students or non creative fanboys who like the "cool stuff". Its not what brings food on the table for them. Its very hard for them to understand what creative pro's need especially if you see the world thru apple tinted glasses.

its called an external battery. problem solved.
 
its called an external battery. problem solved.

Problem: Apple will not license the Magsafe connector to anyone else, nor sell an external battery. So you could either pry appart a power brick and convert it into an external battery or use a generator to power the power brick, which in turn charges the internal battery.

Apple could actually release a 1-for-all external battery that works with anything with a magsafe connextor. But I highly doubt they would do that, it goes against the all-in-one mantra.

Apple is indeed abandoning the pro market. Firewire 400 gone, pro apps are buggier than iLife (Lots of people are upgrading from Logic 8 to Logic 7, Final Cut needs Updates) will the Mac Pro still not updated, no more Apple servers, matte displays hard to get... :(
 
IMHO, Apple is more and more consumer oriented company and seems to turn their backs on the needs of creative professionals. Look at the MacBookPro's (slow, no bluray, less ports then previously, non-removable battery, average graphics

I couldn't agree with you more. Even the keynote presentation mentioned 'students' a number of times... :p

If you compare the 17" MB Air (as I now call it) to the equivalent offering from the likes of Dell for instance, you find the Mac is severely lacking.
What I really want Apple to come out with is a MacBook Pro version of the Dell Precision M6400:

* Optional Intel® Core 2 Duo Quad-Core Extreme Edition processors for ripping through complex analyses
* Up to 16GB1 of fast 1066MHz DDR3 memory for large data sets
* Up to 1GB2 of dedicated professional graphics memory

Please Apple, don't ignore the users that need raw computing power!
 
Problem: Apple will not license the Magsafe connector to anyone else, nor sell an external battery. So you could either pry appart a power brick and convert it into an external battery or use a generator to power the power brick, which in turn charges the internal battery.

Thats not true, theres already several companies selling external Macbook and Macbook pro batteries that use the magsafe connector to plug into your laptop. Ive got 3.
 
US$179 is reasonable, considering the price of the computer itself and the projected life of the battery.
 
The extra size of the screen was taking up extra battery life in the 17" MBP. Thats why they came with this retarded solution. They are experts in marketing, so they cover it up like it was something they had been planning on doing for a long time. It is unlikely we will see future 17"MBP like this, unless the same problem arises.
 
The extra size of the screen was taking up extra battery life in the 17" MBP. Thats why they came with this retarded solution. They are experts in marketing, so they cover it up like it was something they had been planning on doing for a long time. It is unlikely we will see future 17"MBP like this, unless the same problem arises.

haha that's a funny angle I hadn't thought of!
 
Look at the big picture

By the time anyone needs a battery:

  • You will have another notebook
  • Batteries will last even longer and charge even faster
  • There will be external battery accessories available for long time travelers
  • You could get one replaced at any apple store in a few minutes anyway

What's the big deal?
 
I use the same small crummy keyboard with my Mac Pro (Aluminum Bluetooth)? It's at least better than the keyboard that's on my 15" MBP and my old 17" PB. Soft, mushy things these are...

I am not saying that the keys as such are bad. I just do not like the crowded design. I have the full size alu-keyboard on my iMac and it has a far superior key layout for 'professional' work. Ctrl-Key at the lower left. Separate DEL and UP/DOWN Keys and full size cursor keys...

I really hate it when I have to type anything substancial on the MacBook especially when I need to do some programming...
 
By the time anyone needs a battery:

  • You will have another notebook
  • Batteries will last even longer and charge even faster
  • There will be external battery accessories available for long time travelers
  • You could get one replaced at any apple store in a few minutes anyway

What's the big deal?

The problems are:

1) Part of the target market of this computer works far away from electrical sources and have to run on batteries for long periods, sometimes more than the 8 hours advertised.

2) Apple always overestimates battery autonomy. My 15" MBP has never lasted more than 2.5 hours (unless you just turn it on and don't use it, in which case, you can just keep it off anyway). You will be lucky if you get something close to 6 hours (I bet will be less than that).

3) For how long will the battery be able to last that long?. Mine, as an example again, in less than one year already has cycled 167 times and health is 86%. Do you think that after 2 years, the new battery would still be as good as new. Because we're talking here about the fact that you don't need a replaceable battery. If after 2 years your computer can stay "in the wild" for only 2 hours, let's say, will be pretty much useless.

4)Why make user life more difficult?. I get the point with the MBA, because of the shape, the weight, etc., but here? If you look at the pictures, the could have made the battery slot user-accessible with no problems (they did it in the 15" models). How about: "We give you the best battery ever that will last for 8 hours and be good as new for 5 years, but if you don't like it, you can swap it anytime!!". What's wrong with that?.
 
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Shasterball said:
Don't complain. If this is not for you, then don't buy it. I am curious about the RAM being user replacable.





This comment makes no sense. If you don't like the 17" MacBook Pro and you need one, Apple has eliminated any options you may have. This is annoying to people who use their batteries a lot and/or upgrade a lot, and need/want to use a Mac.

Then why not buy the previous generation with a removable battery? The money you would save would probably allow you to pick up 2 or 3 extra batteries. You would be all set.
 
Here's the flaw in your reasoning: you don't compare it to the alternative. If those laptops all had removable batteries like the unibody 15", they'd need replacing about every 2 years, at $129 dollars apiece! That's an average of 150 batteries per year x $129 = $19,350! Why would you complain about something that looks to nearly halve your costs? Perhaps "Businesses, higher ed, and all those" would have an easier time meeting their budgets if they actually put some careful thought into them. I'm just sayin'.

Are you "just sayin'" that I don't know how to do my job?

I don't replace batteries every two years, they get replaced once per computer in a 4-5 year life-cycle, usually at 2.5-3 year mark, when they get depleted, and can no longer be used.

I don't think the new batteries are going to change that much, except perhaps pushing it to the 3-3.5 year mark, and cost 50 dollars more per service. It will still be one battery service per machine, and each service will be more expensive, all else is barely a matter of time. The existing MBP 17's use an encased LiPo battery. The new ones use an internal LiPo battery. I doubt the performance difference is going to be as night-and-day-different as the marketing speak would lead most to believe. It may have more Mah rating, or a higher C-value, or be a larger quantity of more cells per computer. But this isn't a re-invention of that particular wheel, it is just a different packaging aspect, that is making things more difficult under the existing policy umbrella.

1 $179 battery service is not cheaper than one $129 (and probably over-priced at that) replaceable battery, that is more expensive.

And, if a swollen battery damages itself, it involves the replacement of the battery, covered by apple, or not. Even if Apple DOESN'T cover it, which their policy does not obligate them to do... the user, or the organization pays $129 for a new battery, and it takes les than 2 seconds to swap. The old battery goes to recycling. OR someone can use two batteries continuously, and with reasonable use, can extend their cyclic lifetime to cover pretty much the entire useful life of the computer hardware, and have double the non-AC-powered run-time.

If a swollen internal battery damages the case and internal components of the computer, it is a MUCH larger problem, and many times more expensive to fix. Hundreds or thousands of dollars, probably at least a week of down time, and it puts the machine's data at risk if not backed up, OR requires the replacement of the machine, which is essentially the shortening of the machine's useful life. A $3000 computer should not have that sort of design flaw, that foreseeable, and somewhat common aspects of battery failure can possibly cause severe damage, or cause the service life to be shortened by a year or more. AND it completely cancels the ability to use redundant batteries for longer cycle life, and longer DC run-time.

What also is not cheaper, is the fact that in order not to take the risk of a voided warranty, it is also going to continue to cost more for an Apple for down time to send computers in for HDD and RAM issues, because those are essentially NOT user serviceable, if you don't want to risk an internal issue with the computer not being covered in the future. I've been over that before. That cost either manifests itself in having to keep more spare computers on hand for temporary use, OR the cost of user dissatisfaction and inability to work properly without their tools.

I can replace RAM or a HDD in a PC laptop in well under 3 minutes, and I can have software, and backups fully restored in hours. Less than a day of down time for even a basic emergency service. The RAM and HDD can be sent for replacement once the computer is back in service with replacement parts, and the warranty replenishes my inventory by replacing the defective or failed parts. That is a VERY common repair service. Much more common that screens, or main logic board replacements, or other more invasive services.

A similar issue with a Mac takes the better part of a week, due to having to send it in for that service to be done under warranty. The software restoration takes about the same amount of time. Pickup, delivery, and service queues, part shipping times, all make the difference. Again, a very common issue.

ALSO, if something more severe, like a main logic board fails... I can swap a PC's hard drive into a temporary unit, and the user is back up and running in minutes, and has 'their machine' for all intents and purposes, in a temporary shell, until their actual unit is repaired. In some pool systems, the hard drive is the only thing that is truly tied to the user, and the hardware shell can be changed out at will, and stay that way. In some more enterprise-level server-based windows environments, the hard drive doesn't even need to be swapped, the roaming user profile is just re-allocated to a different machine.

An APPLE computer cannot be handled that way. Again, wishing to preserve the warranty coverage keeps people like me OUT of the computer, and I cannot serve my users as quickly or as easily, with a minimum of downtime for them.

I'm just sayin'... Apple has it's distinct benefits, but it is not all roses and candies, from a service standpoint, and a built-in battery is not a positive direction in that regard.
 
Don't complain. If this is not for you, then don't buy it.

In a free and open market opinions like that make perfect sense. Don't like this 17" notebook? Buy a different one. No one is forcing you to buy this product after all. However most of us here are Mac users and so we realize that our choices are limited and that our market is certainly not free or open.

Although I'm not looking to buy a 17" laptop I do want an entry level tower to replace my main work machine. I need dual monitor support on a low to mid-range desktop to work with my KVM setup. I've been doing it this way for years, Mac on one side PC on the other. The thing is right now I simply don't have a product to buy on the Apple side. I've typically purchased their tower in the $1500 range to compliment my $500 PC (that's painful enough) but now the $1500 tower doesn't even exist. That means I can either buy a $2300 Mac Pro or, well, nothing.

So for the last two years it's been nothing. And that makes me sympathize with the people here who now have no real options for a 17" Apple notebook. Year after year the entire lineup of Macs becomes more proprietary, more closed and more expensive. Apple hardly even sells a "real" desktop machine any more and now it looks like the notebook line is headed in the same direction. It's all trending towards closed, single purpose, dead end devices. It's no wonder the Hackintosh community is so robust.
 
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