Light Peak will not replace USB 3.
They are for different markets.
Also, I believe the new chipset that will likely be running the new Sandy Bridge MBPs has sufficient bandwidth to cope with SSDs, USB3 and LP.
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MacBook Pro Supplies Tightening Ahead of Potential Refresh
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Light Peak will not replace USB 3.
They are for different markets.
Also, I believe the new chipset that will likely be running the new Sandy Bridge MBPs has sufficient bandwidth to cope with SSDs, USB3 and LP.
Makes absolute sense to me, and this is actually what I would like to believe will eventually happen.
Now if you want to argue specs between the two, number by number, then it's pointless to debate about it.
Average consumers are not tech savvy, nor do they spend their hours on forums such as MR, quibbling over rumors and random speculation of core iX processor this, or SSD that.
Given that benchmarks on the Air models have proven to be suprsingly close to that of the 13" MBP (thanks in part due to the flash drive), the average consumer won't have a care in the world that his/her machine is using an age old processor thats 1000 Mhz less than it was before, as long as the machine functions perfectly and adequately.
I also have first hand experience on the whole ordeal. I own a new 11.6" Air, which replaced a 13" MBP with 8GB RAM before it, and performance flies, thanks again to the flash drive. I honestly don't feel any performance hit at all. Not enough at least to care about it. It does what I need it to do and for average consumers, that's going to be the only thing they need to care about.
Why convolute the lineup with machines at the same price point? This is the only two Mac products that conflict with each other in terms of pricing, so one of these has to go. Apple may just combine the two, axe the "Air" suffix, but retain the specs of the Air in a new era in the Macbook line. But who knows?
^ This +1
That's the point I've been trying to make.
even so I've never really liked USB FireWire is are superior in every way in the real world (and on paper if you look at 800) and with FW1600 and 3200 I would much rather have that as the standard then any USB replacement
I am more excited about this that I was about my first car. Funny, it costs about as much as my first car
If the average consumer is not tech savvy to at least have an idea what different specs imply, I doubt they are going to be spending time looking at benchmarks. Despite all the talk of efficient cores able to do more work with the same MHz rating and using less power and all the new convoluted CPU naming schemes to de-emphasize the MHZ rating, I think the average consumer is still only likely to look at 2 numbers, the MHz speed and the RAM amount. They may have a vague idea that an SSD is newer tech and is faster, but they won't be able to justify on the spot how big that difference is relative to the importance of the familiar MHz rating and RAM amount and will probably be worried that capacity is down yet they are paying more compared to a HDD.
Personally given that Apple's notebook profit margins are above the rest of the industry, I'm naively hoping that Apple will just absorb the additional cost of blade SSDs and implement it across the line. They are presumably getting very aggressive pricing on Flash anyways and this year should see a doubling of capacity since last year didn't see a flash capacity bump in the iPhone or iPod Touch so Moore's Law will help with the cost this year and will continue to reduce it going forward. Of course explaining it to investors is another matter.
I wasn't mentioning gaming either. The integrated graphics processor in your 13" MacBook Pro doubles as the system chipset. You have graphics and the IGP on a single chip's die. That said, the IGP portion completely aside, the GeForce 320M (newer one that is in your 11" Air and your 13" MacBook Pro if you bought it after April 2010) is way faster than the GeForce 9400M (older one that was in your 13" MacBook Pro if you bought it before April 2010). Both GeForce chips are also the system chipset, so if you are using the newer one in your 11" Air and the older one in your 13" Pro, that'll largely explain the speed difference, which is my point about specs; specs are science, we have benchmarks to prove it.
Thanks! I take pride in my simplified explanations as they are a part of my job as I deal with people who aren't as technically knowledgable as we are.
I know the quote you're talking about, and basically when Phil Schiller introduced the Early 2009 17" MacBook Pro at Macworld Expo 2009, he commented that most people only have one battery and they don't replace it with a spare unless the battery life really sucks to which he unveiled a 7-hour battery for the behemoth that doesn't suck and said that while it's not user-servicable, it's way long lasting so the need to replace it won't be as prevalent, hence his quote, most people replace the battery when they replace the computer. I certainly use my laptop like that and most people I do (save for the ones that kill their batteries due to stupid charging) do too.
It is, but it's only the best selling because (a) people like the aluminum and (b) it's still low enough in price so that those that can't afford the 15" Pro have another option with aluminum. Before it came along, the white MacBook was the best seller. Really, if you nix the 13" Pro, the white MacBook will become the best seller, because between cheap and affordable or 15" and expensive, the average consumer, in this economy will go for what's cheapest. Killing the 13" Pro doesn't kill its customers, it just differs them to either a 15" MacBook Pro, a 13" MacBook Air, or a white MacBook, depending on the customer.
It has the bandwidth, but the logic board doesn't have room for the separate controller needed for USB 3.0 (because Intel doesn't support it natively in their chipsets yet). Also Lightpeak isn't ready yet. Keep waiting.
I am more excited about this that I was about my first car. Funny, it costs about as much as my first car
I LOLed at this.
17" on backorder at bestbuy
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemp...ice+skuid&usc=abcat0500000#storeInventoryLink
http://www.bestbuy.com/site/olstemp...ice+skuid&usc=abcat0500000#storeInventoryLink
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The problem with no optical drive and a solid state hard drive: for those using the MBP to do graphic/music/video intensive work, it means the end of mobile graphic/music/video work on a professional level-at least on the MBP.
If you want solid state and no optical drive, get a MacBook Air.
I hope Apple doesn't piss off those of us in the professional world by totally obliterating the professional application of the MBP.
If they made a SSD, no optical drive version while keeping the real versions plus Sandy Bridge and expected hard drive size updates, I could live with that.
Heck, even a solid state drive I could get by on. But the "iOS-ification" of the MacBook Pro will be the death of professional designers, videographers and music producers using it.
We'll stick to desktops and leave the toys those who don't realize they're paying more for less.
The problem with no optical drive and a solid state hard drive: for those using the MBP to do graphic/music/video intensive work, it means the end of mobile graphic/music/video work on a professional level-at least on the MBP.
If you want solid state and no optical drive, get a MacBook Air.
I hope Apple doesn't piss off those of us in the professional world by totally obliterating the professional application of the MBP.
If they made a SSD, no optical drive version while keeping the real versions plus Sandy Bridge and expected hard drive size updates, I could live with that.
Heck, even a solid state drive I could get by on. But the "iOS-ification" of the MacBook Pro will be the death of professional designers, videographers and music producers using it.
We'll stick to desktops and leave the toys those who don't realize they're paying more for less.
1 - agree
2 - disagree. Optical drives will remain standard in this refresh w/ BTO HDD options.
3 - disagree. Feels like MBP 13" might get the axe soon because of MB White and Air.
4 - See #2 above.
5 - Agree
ON1 - disagree. LP Copper on 15 and 17" MBPs w/ cross platform adapters galore for sale.
ON2 - agree. BTO option
ON3 - agree. Blades SSD + HDD hybrid w/o Optical Drives in 2012
ON4 - agree. Except no price drop, only spec bump.
ON5 - unsure. Possible but depends on what Apple does in this update to the MBP 13".
Seriously of all the MacBook models the MBP 13" has the least mineshare for me.
More for less?
You're already paying more for less spec-wise when you buy a laptop over a desktop. It's the price of mobility.
You're already paying more for less spec-wise when you buy a laptop over a desktop. It's the price of mobility.
As clearly people who aren't working in the graphic/music/video industry don't count as professionals. Ever heard of Science? How about Engineering? Maybe programming?
The graphic/music/video industry is a small segment of the professional market. Many other professionals do not require huge amounts of storage, or the constant use of optical drives, or can simply use far more efficient external solutions to both.
A large number of professionals, or future professionals such as myself, would benefit more from increased performance, and would not be affected by the loss of an internal optical drive.
Of course, most general consumers also don't need internal optical drives. Which means that your graphic/music/video people are in the minority.
I will be a little disappointed if the new MBPs don't have both blade SSDs and a large traditional HDD, but won't care at all if the optical disk is sacrificed. Neither will a lot of professionals and consumers alike.
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Yeah, mobility will always cost a bit more. It's all a matter of what the customer needs or wants and what they're willing to pay to satisfy that need or want.
I've tried convincing friends to get a Mac or at least a semi-nice desktop to replace their anemic laptops, but they love the mobility.
macaroo2 said:
Yeah, mobility will always cost a bit more. It's all a matter of what the customer needs or wants and what they're willing to pay to satisfy that need or want.
I've tried convincing friends to get a Mac or at least a semi-nice desktop to replace their anemic laptops, but they love the mobility.
Finally the MAC news / rumors... this has been a looong wait!
Here is hoping for SSD as standard option
Here is hoping for SSD as standard option
Low-End 13" MacBook
2.3GHz Core i5-2410M
2GB DDR3-1333
320GB HDD
Intel HD Graphics
13" 1440x900 screen
DVD Superdrive
$999
High-end 13" MacBook
2.5GHz Core i5-2520M
4GB DDR3-1333
500GB HDD
Intel HD Graphics
13" 1440x900 screen
DVD Superdrive
$1199
Low-end 13" MacBook Pro
2.5GHz Core i5-2520M
4GB DDR3-1333
128GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics
13" 1440x900 screen
DVD Superdrive
$1299
High-end 13" MacBook Pro
2.6GHz Core i5-2540M
4GB DDR3-1333
256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics
13" 1440x900 screen
DVD Superdrive
$1499
Low-End 15"
2.5GHz Core i5-2520M
4GB DDR3-1333
256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics + 512GB GDDR5 GT525M
15" 1680x1050 IPS screen
DVD Superdrive
$1799
Mid-range 15"
2.6GHz Core i5-2540M
4GB DDR3-1333
256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics + 1GB GDDR5 GT525M
15" 1680x1050 IPS screen
DVD Superdrive
$1999
High-end 15"
2.7GHz Core i7-2620M
4GB DDR3-1333
2x256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics + 1GB GDDR5 GT525M
15" 1680x1050 IPS screen
DVD Superdrive
$2299
17" MacBook Pro
2.6GHz Core i5-2540M
4GB DDR3-1333
2x256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics + 1GB GDDR5 GT525M
17" 1920x1200 IPS screen
DVD Superdrive
$2399
Here are my proposed specs. I think all Pro units will have the HDD removed and blade SSDs used in place. The MacBook line will remain for those who need the larger, cheaper capacity that HDDs provide which is why it can be expanded with a $1199 model.
All notebooks will use Sandy Bridge, with 13" models sticking with Intel IGP only. Overall performance will be much improved due to the 2 generations newer CPU and the use of SSDs while games will admittedly be a side-grade. Avoiding using a discrete GPU saves cost, space, heat, and power so seems like a concession Apple would make given that Sandy Bridge's IGP has finally stretched into loosely acceptable performance range.
13" Pro models will have 1 blade SSD slot, while 15" and 17" models will have 2 blade SSD slots so that 512GB total capacity in the higher models can be implemented more cheaply as a 2x256GB configuration. 1x512GB SSDs will be available as a BTO for 13", 15", and 17" MacBook Pros and 2x512GB SSD BTO for the 15" and 17" models.
13" and 15" models receive higher resolution screens as standard. 15" and 17" MacBook Pros will also receive IPS screens. The 17" model will have a BTO for the Core i7 and all models will have BTO for 8GB of RAM. All models retain optical drives, while battery size will be extended slightly using the leftover HDD space that the blade SSD slots aren't using. I'm hoping an additional USB port will be added to all models now that some case surface area is now available with the removal of the HDD which used to be flush with the case. Hopefully 3 antennae MIMO 802.11n and Firewire 3200 will be implemented as well.
Overall, I think these configurations are reasonable. Implementing SSDs on all Pros will constrain margins slightly, but I increased the price points by $100 on the models most sensitive to this namely the low-end 13" MacBook Pro which jumps to SSD from the HDD MacBook, and the 2x256GB SSD 15" and 17" models.
2.3GHz Core i5-2410M
2GB DDR3-1333
320GB HDD
Intel HD Graphics
13" 1440x900 screen
DVD Superdrive
$999
High-end 13" MacBook
2.5GHz Core i5-2520M
4GB DDR3-1333
500GB HDD
Intel HD Graphics
13" 1440x900 screen
DVD Superdrive
$1199
Low-end 13" MacBook Pro
2.5GHz Core i5-2520M
4GB DDR3-1333
128GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics
13" 1440x900 screen
DVD Superdrive
$1299
High-end 13" MacBook Pro
2.6GHz Core i5-2540M
4GB DDR3-1333
256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics
13" 1440x900 screen
DVD Superdrive
$1499
Low-End 15"
2.5GHz Core i5-2520M
4GB DDR3-1333
256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics + 512GB GDDR5 GT525M
15" 1680x1050 IPS screen
DVD Superdrive
$1799
Mid-range 15"
2.6GHz Core i5-2540M
4GB DDR3-1333
256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics + 1GB GDDR5 GT525M
15" 1680x1050 IPS screen
DVD Superdrive
$1999
High-end 15"
2.7GHz Core i7-2620M
4GB DDR3-1333
2x256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics + 1GB GDDR5 GT525M
15" 1680x1050 IPS screen
DVD Superdrive
$2299
17" MacBook Pro
2.6GHz Core i5-2540M
4GB DDR3-1333
2x256GB SSD
Intel HD Graphics + 1GB GDDR5 GT525M
17" 1920x1200 IPS screen
DVD Superdrive
$2399
Here are my proposed specs. I think all Pro units will have the HDD removed and blade SSDs used in place. The MacBook line will remain for those who need the larger, cheaper capacity that HDDs provide which is why it can be expanded with a $1199 model.
All notebooks will use Sandy Bridge, with 13" models sticking with Intel IGP only. Overall performance will be much improved due to the 2 generations newer CPU and the use of SSDs while games will admittedly be a side-grade. Avoiding using a discrete GPU saves cost, space, heat, and power so seems like a concession Apple would make given that Sandy Bridge's IGP has finally stretched into loosely acceptable performance range.
13" Pro models will have 1 blade SSD slot, while 15" and 17" models will have 2 blade SSD slots so that 512GB total capacity in the higher models can be implemented more cheaply as a 2x256GB configuration. 1x512GB SSDs will be available as a BTO for 13", 15", and 17" MacBook Pros and 2x512GB SSD BTO for the 15" and 17" models.
13" and 15" models receive higher resolution screens as standard. 15" and 17" MacBook Pros will also receive IPS screens. The 17" model will have a BTO for the Core i7 and all models will have BTO for 8GB of RAM. All models retain optical drives, while battery size will be extended slightly using the leftover HDD space that the blade SSD slots aren't using. I'm hoping an additional USB port will be added to all models now that some case surface area is now available with the removal of the HDD which used to be flush with the case. Hopefully 3 antennae MIMO 802.11n and Firewire 3200 will be implemented as well.
Overall, I think these configurations are reasonable. Implementing SSDs on all Pros will constrain margins slightly, but I increased the price points by $100 on the models most sensitive to this namely the low-end 13" MacBook Pro which jumps to SSD from the HDD MacBook, and the 2x256GB SSD 15" and 17" models.
Seriously? Seriously. Nah, seriously...
Less weight and a less glossy screen? I'd jump on that on a heartbeat too. hope you're right.
Attachments
Man, it's comments like this that give us Mac users a bad rep.
"+1" doesn't even do it justice.
+1 on all of that.
It has the least going for it that isn't already better serviced by any of the adjacent models (namely the 13" Air, the white MacBook, or the 15" MacBook Pro).
You're paying far more for less with something like the MacBook Air than you are for a white MacBook.
Clearly there are those of you that don't need an optical disc drive to perform your profession. Doesn't mean that a majority of everyone would be fine without it.
Fools.
digitimes dec 16/2010
"The sources noted that Apple plans to launch at least four upgraded MacBook Pros:"
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20101215PD223.html
"The sources noted that Apple plans to launch at least four upgraded MacBook Pros:"
http://www.digitimes.com/news/a20101215PD223.html
Seriously? Seriously. Nah, seriously...
People still use optical drives and Mac OS X is still doesn't have a TRIM equivalent for forestalling flash memory degradation.
The fact that said number is "at least four" and not "confirmed six" makes me also doubt the fate of the 13" MacBook Pro.
No ODDs
I am hoping Apple will finally drop the ODDs from the pro lineup... and everybody seems forget that Apple just released the Appstore, an internet based alternative to CDs for programs. Apple already has plenty of movies and media on iTunes (which I personally don't care for, but hey, its an excuse to ditch DVDs)
Also, Apple recently made an external superdrive for the air, and if pro users whine too much and still need their superdrive, Apple will suck even more money from consumer's pockets and gladly sell them an external superdrive.
Remember, Apple is not necessarily concerned so much with functionality and performance (ie, keeping the outdated c2d for so long) as they are with design and battery life, which is why I think they will ditch the ODDs and slim the case a bit and/or add more battery life to the pro lineup.
I am hoping Apple will finally drop the ODDs from the pro lineup... and everybody seems forget that Apple just released the Appstore, an internet based alternative to CDs for programs. Apple already has plenty of movies and media on iTunes (which I personally don't care for, but hey, its an excuse to ditch DVDs)
Also, Apple recently made an external superdrive for the air, and if pro users whine too much and still need their superdrive, Apple will suck even more money from consumer's pockets and gladly sell them an external superdrive.
Remember, Apple is not necessarily concerned so much with functionality and performance (ie, keeping the outdated c2d for so long) as they are with design and battery life, which is why I think they will ditch the ODDs and slim the case a bit and/or add more battery life to the pro lineup.
'Bout time.
I highly doubt 13" anything, whether it be the MB or MBP, is being discontinued. I'm in college. I don't want, nor can I afford the 15" MBP. I do need more power than the MB and I absolutely require a SD card reader. I use that more than an optical drive (which I've only used recently to burn a cd for my grandma that doesn't like thumb drives). There are plenty other college students like me. Apple has a huge share of campus laptop purchases, most of them being 13" MBP by students like me that want portability and power, but can't afford the larger sized MBPs and MBA and need a larger hard drive than what the MBA offers. The white MBs are also big sellers for the less technologically-inclined students that want Macs.
So yeah, the 13-inchers are for students. As for this student, this is her wish list for the update:
- Sandy Bridge i3 and/or i5 for the 13" MBP and SB i3 for the white MB
- 4GB RAM starting point for regular MB
- SD reader for white MB (If they update the processor, up the RAM, and add an SD reader, I'd be willing to buy the regular MB instead of the MBP for the sake of price.)
- I could take or leave the optical drive. It would be cool if they dropped it from the 13-inchers, but I don't particularly care either way.
- I hope the update comes before March. My computer is dying and I really, really need a new one, but as I previously mentioned, I can't afford the 15" MBP and I'll be damned before I fork over $1100 for a C2D processor. Also, my dying laptop is a 15-incher and I despise the size. I thought that I'd like it when I first got it, but once I entered college and started transporting it more often, I came to loathe it.
Is it really too much to ask for a $1000+ laptop to sport more than a C2D processor? Really i-something should be a given. Last year, Apple could get away with it, because it's Apple. Now the company is just effing with us.
I highly doubt 13" anything, whether it be the MB or MBP, is being discontinued. I'm in college. I don't want, nor can I afford the 15" MBP. I do need more power than the MB and I absolutely require a SD card reader. I use that more than an optical drive (which I've only used recently to burn a cd for my grandma that doesn't like thumb drives). There are plenty other college students like me. Apple has a huge share of campus laptop purchases, most of them being 13" MBP by students like me that want portability and power, but can't afford the larger sized MBPs and MBA and need a larger hard drive than what the MBA offers. The white MBs are also big sellers for the less technologically-inclined students that want Macs.
So yeah, the 13-inchers are for students. As for this student, this is her wish list for the update:
- Sandy Bridge i3 and/or i5 for the 13" MBP and SB i3 for the white MB
- 4GB RAM starting point for regular MB
- SD reader for white MB (If they update the processor, up the RAM, and add an SD reader, I'd be willing to buy the regular MB instead of the MBP for the sake of price.)
- I could take or leave the optical drive. It would be cool if they dropped it from the 13-inchers, but I don't particularly care either way.
- I hope the update comes before March. My computer is dying and I really, really need a new one, but as I previously mentioned, I can't afford the 15" MBP and I'll be damned before I fork over $1100 for a C2D processor. Also, my dying laptop is a 15-incher and I despise the size. I thought that I'd like it when I first got it, but once I entered college and started transporting it more often, I came to loathe it.
Is it really too much to ask for a $1000+ laptop to sport more than a C2D processor? Really i-something should be a given. Last year, Apple could get away with it, because it's Apple. Now the company is just effing with us.
I'll be keeping my current 15" 2010 model. It keeps up with everything I throw at it nicely : )
Sounds good to me. The Pro models really need to step up to the mark now as the MB Air really is a rocket ship and easily out performs the 13" MBP in a lot of applications. Apple need to ditch the 13" white MB. It doesnt stack up against the Air and they need to ditch the 13" MBP as it is no longer worthy of carrying a Pro tag. the notebook line up at the moment is and could be quite confusing to a newcomer and having 4 notebooks with various configs simplifies the line up all while having a distinct performance gap to suit the level of user. The 15" & 17" need to take this opportunity to rise above the Air and thats not just with regards to the screensize. they need to be ultrafast and offer a Pro user what he expects from a Pro notebook in comparison for what he can gleen from a PC equivalent.