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MacBook Pro Supplies Tightening Ahead of Potential Refresh
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SandyBridge Mobile doesn't have 6Gb SATA (Desktop only has 2). SSD's easily max out 3Gb SATA while 6Gb SSD's are going to be hitting the market this year in a big way. Intel/Micron's 25nm SSD chips are going to be in great supply this year allowing for much greater SSD capacities up to 600GB. Apple use Toshiba flash for those blade things and thus is the larger 34nm. Unless Apple changes SSD supplier or Toshiba starts using Microns 25nm SSD chips we won't be seeing large capacity 2.5" drives in MBP's
Now, SandyBridge (mobile or desktop) provide no USB 3. Intel has said that may not come until the end of the year or early next. We must question what the external storage bus is going to be used in the future to take advantage of SSDs. USB 3 is going to be too slow before it even ships. USB 3 needs bridge chips which add latency and 6Gb SATA SSDs in a USB 3 case are going to be painfully limited.
eSATAp is a bit of hack job since it uses USB ports to supply power and I don't see Apple putting these on any Mac's. It's a shame the SATA-IO group failed to design SATA for external usage.
Enter Light Peak. So far this is just a pipe dream. As usual Intel said this would come out last year (end of 2010) using photons. Now it supposed to be this year not using in photons but copper. I think Intel is profit plotting and delaying deliberately on this. If they get the industry suckered into copper LightPeak then can then later switch to photon LightPeak then later again even faster photon LightPeak. This will provided them with a profitable roadmap and leaving us with empty pockets and lots of landfill destined peripherals.
On a side note Apple would be doing the right thing by it's users by using Texas Instruments Firewire chips again instead of these el cheapo Lucent, LSI, Agere chipsets which have continually been problematic for the audio/music user-base.
Looking at all of these points, I'd seriously question the credibility of any MBP's (technically speaking) released so early in the year. I don't see then as anything other than a 'yikes' profit filler machine at best. I'm sure the MBP will have an internal design update with Toshiba Blade SSDs+HDD and probably SandyBridge.
I certainly won't be sinking any significant money (or excitement) into these machines or SSD's until we know what Apple, Intel and the industry and going to decide on in terms of external storage and peripheral interfacing.
I'd suggest others consider some of these points also.
Now, SandyBridge (mobile or desktop) provide no USB 3. Intel has said that may not come until the end of the year or early next. We must question what the external storage bus is going to be used in the future to take advantage of SSDs. USB 3 is going to be too slow before it even ships. USB 3 needs bridge chips which add latency and 6Gb SATA SSDs in a USB 3 case are going to be painfully limited.
eSATAp is a bit of hack job since it uses USB ports to supply power and I don't see Apple putting these on any Mac's. It's a shame the SATA-IO group failed to design SATA for external usage.
Enter Light Peak. So far this is just a pipe dream. As usual Intel said this would come out last year (end of 2010) using photons. Now it supposed to be this year not using in photons but copper. I think Intel is profit plotting and delaying deliberately on this. If they get the industry suckered into copper LightPeak then can then later switch to photon LightPeak then later again even faster photon LightPeak. This will provided them with a profitable roadmap and leaving us with empty pockets and lots of landfill destined peripherals.
On a side note Apple would be doing the right thing by it's users by using Texas Instruments Firewire chips again instead of these el cheapo Lucent, LSI, Agere chipsets which have continually been problematic for the audio/music user-base.
Looking at all of these points, I'd seriously question the credibility of any MBP's (technically speaking) released so early in the year. I don't see then as anything other than a 'yikes' profit filler machine at best. I'm sure the MBP will have an internal design update with Toshiba Blade SSDs+HDD and probably SandyBridge.
I certainly won't be sinking any significant money (or excitement) into these machines or SSD's until we know what Apple, Intel and the industry and going to decide on in terms of external storage and peripheral interfacing.
I'd suggest others consider some of these points also.
I agree the market is crowded at the 13" models but everyone here has a reason why one should be cut. I think the reality is they all see success in the market at this time, and I wouldn't expect any model to be cut with this revision. Likely next year or possibly even mid-cycle (MBA refresh?).
With that being said, my vote (as if it counts) is to vote the macbook off the island. In the short term I think this makes the most sense, along with making modest improvements to the base MBP 13 and dropping the price to make it an entry machine, and then making the 13" upgrade model a real bump, adding SSD standard, processor bump, and possibly, but not likely, discrete graphics.
Long term though it makes sense to keep all three models with this refresh and with the next, or possibly MBA refresh, let the natural evolution of the products phase out the need for a Pro 13" when you can incorporate the processing power in a smaller package.
On the dual hard drives, I doubt that will ever happen unless Apple can make the two look like one. Most users barely grasp the concept of hard drive vs memory, much less understand two volumes.
With that being said, my vote (as if it counts) is to vote the macbook off the island. In the short term I think this makes the most sense, along with making modest improvements to the base MBP 13 and dropping the price to make it an entry machine, and then making the 13" upgrade model a real bump, adding SSD standard, processor bump, and possibly, but not likely, discrete graphics.
Long term though it makes sense to keep all three models with this refresh and with the next, or possibly MBA refresh, let the natural evolution of the products phase out the need for a Pro 13" when you can incorporate the processing power in a smaller package.
On the dual hard drives, I doubt that will ever happen unless Apple can make the two look like one. Most users barely grasp the concept of hard drive vs memory, much less understand two volumes.
I should have pointed out that at least in my local Apple Store, there's no white MacBook to be seen anywhere. The tables at the front have MacBook Air and iPad's on display. Further down there's a table with MacBookPro's and the rest are iPhones/iPods and their accessories.
I went to buy a MacBookPro with a friend earlier this week and the Apple sales people were pushing the MacBookAir as the consumer level laptop. She got a 13"/128GB and is very happy with it.
I concede that the current White MacBook is more powerful than the MacBookAir but Apple is notorious for selling their computers based on the end result of what it can do, not on a spec sheet. In this case, the performance with SSD's makes up for where the MacBookAir lacks in CPU/GPU power. The end result is a super fast computer that performs better than the white MacBook in every day tasks.
Perhaps the new MacBook will be a slightly thicker MacBookAir with room for an HDD but I'm willing to bet that Apple will widen the use of their latest components such as blade SSD's rather than stick with the older tech currently in the existing MacBook. Apple gets reduced prices on components based on volume. They're motivated to put SSD's in all their computers.
Consumers aren't looking for cutting edge power. If they are, they're pointed towards the MacBookPro. Consumers just want to get their every day tasks done and the MacBookAir does that very well.
128GB of storage will serve the uses of a lot of entry level consumers. They're not working with large files, they're not bit torrenting ripped blu ray movies. Again, if they are, they're looking for a MacBookPro, not a MacBook.
I went to buy a MacBookPro with a friend earlier this week and the Apple sales people were pushing the MacBookAir as the consumer level laptop. She got a 13"/128GB and is very happy with it.
I concede that the current White MacBook is more powerful than the MacBookAir but Apple is notorious for selling their computers based on the end result of what it can do, not on a spec sheet. In this case, the performance with SSD's makes up for where the MacBookAir lacks in CPU/GPU power. The end result is a super fast computer that performs better than the white MacBook in every day tasks.
Perhaps the new MacBook will be a slightly thicker MacBookAir with room for an HDD but I'm willing to bet that Apple will widen the use of their latest components such as blade SSD's rather than stick with the older tech currently in the existing MacBook. Apple gets reduced prices on components based on volume. They're motivated to put SSD's in all their computers.
Consumers aren't looking for cutting edge power. If they are, they're pointed towards the MacBookPro. Consumers just want to get their every day tasks done and the MacBookAir does that very well.
128GB of storage will serve the uses of a lot of entry level consumers. They're not working with large files, they're not bit torrenting ripped blu ray movies. Again, if they are, they're looking for a MacBookPro, not a MacBook.
Actually, it makes a lot of sense. I just bought the 11.6" MBA, and there is no way that I would have bought the white Macbook. I think that people place so much emphasis on things that the MBA doesn't have, such as the optical drive. I find it pretty funny, actually. I realize that there are people who want a built in optical drive, but I can tell you that I haven't used the optical drive on my iMac for probably at least 6 months.
Macbook Pros to be announced late February. I have a feeling.
They can't announce it in April because of the iPad launch and they also have to announce these notebooks at least a month ahead of the iPad to make sure they are hot sellers.
Good prediction?
They can't announce it in April because of the iPad launch and they also have to announce these notebooks at least a month ahead of the iPad to make sure they are hot sellers.
Good prediction?
oh noeeez, Amazon Japan still lists the 15" as available..
come on everybody, help to reduce the inventory, the keyboard layout is not that bad
come on everybody, help to reduce the inventory, the keyboard layout is not that bad
There's also the issue of, y'know, performance. The fact that the MacBook can be used for most computing tasks at $1000 and the fact that the 11" MacBook Air can't.
128GB of storage isn't sold on the $1000 Air model. If you show most consumers the difference between the two, customers will gravitate toward the white MacBook. Though more importantly, screw your Apple Stores, the education market covets the white MacBook; they won't want the 11" Air in its place, I'm sorry.
The 13" Pro is the only one that would have the largest number of people complaining about either a crappy Intel IGP or the continued use of the Core 2 Duo, which is the dilemma that the MacBook Air, white MacBook, and Mac mini teams all face. The other two serve distinct purposes and are distinctly different. the 13" Pro is the most replaceable of the three.
They launched both last April, so your logic doesn't add up. But your prediction is most likely.
Well if it comes out this in February I might wait. I need to buy one next month before my mobilization starts. Hopefully there's an announcement prior to actual release so i don't buy early. I'm on a limited time frame of when i can buy because I'm traveling to much to ship it to me. I need to go to the store.
Definite the smart move. I just can't be out a computer so I'm gonna have to suck it up and get dirt money for my 13" when the time comes. Fortunately macs hold value pretty well. Not like the PC quad tower I just sold for $350. Lol.
What the MBA doesn't have is a good CPU. I don't care how fast it boots or opens programs. When it comes to actually running anything demanding like even a video in iMovie put together with HD clips taken on an iPhone it's going to choke a heck of a lot more than the MacBook.
The 13" MacBook Air is faster than both the white MacBook and the 13" MacBook Pro, though only by a hair. The 11" MacBook Air, on the other hand, isn't a suitable substitute for either.
So how come the 13" can't handle anything demanding such as mentioned in the post you're replying to? Lack of RAM? Or does processor speed (e.g 1.86 vs 2.4 GHz) matter after all?
I'm not sure why it is, but the benchmarks for the Late 2010 13" Air are faster than that of the 13" Pro and white MacBook, despite the difference in clock speed. Look at it for yourself on Macworld.com.
Really? It has a slower CPU, the same GPU and the only performance gain should be from that fact is has an SSD? Other than that unless they tweaked drivers or the EFI, the Air should be slower.
Makes absolute sense to me, and this is actually what I would like to believe will eventually happen.
Now if you want to argue specs between the two, number by number, then it's pointless to debate about it.
Average consumers are not tech savvy, nor do they spend their hours on forums such as MR, quibbling over rumors and random speculation of core iX processor this, or SSD that.
Given that benchmarks on the Air models have proven to be suprsingly close to that of the 13" MBP (thanks in part due to the flash drive), the average consumer won't have a care in the world that his/her machine is using an age old processor thats 1000 Mhz less than it was before, as long as the machine functions perfectly and adequately.
I also have first hand experience on the whole ordeal. I own a new 11.6" Air, which replaced a 13" MBP with 8GB RAM before it, and performance flies, thanks again to the flash drive. I honestly don't feel any performance hit at all. Not enough at least to care about it. It does what I need it to do and for average consumers, that's going to be the only thing they need to care about.
Why convolute the lineup with machines at the same price point? This is the only two Mac products that conflict with each other in terms of pricing, so one of these has to go. Apple may just combine the two, axe the "Air" suffix, but retain the specs of the Air in a new era in the Macbook line. But who knows?
So you admit paid $999 for a slower computer? instead of paying maybe $100 to make your 13in faster?
To me that screams illogical, and if you way its a "weight thing" you better be over 80years old or have a medical condition. With how many pople I see even complaining about the sub-6lb 15in MBP I'm starting to fear for the health of America.
Spec-wise, on paper, it is "slower", but I don't feel it slower at all. The flash drive actually makes it feel faster than my 13" MBP.
So no, it's completely logical. Because it loads faster than a computer thats $200 more expensive.
Edit: and before you say that the comparison is unfair because you can still add an SSD to a MBP, don't forget that's an additional $200 on top of the MBP.
It is going to be an extremely lame move by Apple if they don't release quad core laptops in the upcoming refresh. It is such a shame that fanboys encourage Apple to prioritize form factor over function. In the mind of many fanboys, computing power is less important than having a laptop thin enough to impress their fellow iDouchebags at Starbucks.
Prediction
No redesign for any of the MacBooks.
MacBook White will be around for at least another year. Little to no change from now except maybe a speed bump. Re: education buyers still flock to this. So until the Air makes it's case, it stays.
MBPs - gets Sandy Bridge and copper Lightpeak which replaces FireWire or minidisplayport or both. Makes most sense as adapters will be easy to implement on copper over light. Most likely to get BTO options for the 15" and 17". I.e. - replace standard HDD with 32/128/512gb SSD and additional HDD to replace OD slot.
No blade SSDs until Apple can gauge demand and preferences from the BTO options and to give Air some breathing room.
No redesign for any of the MacBooks.
MacBook White will be around for at least another year. Little to no change from now except maybe a speed bump. Re: education buyers still flock to this. So until the Air makes it's case, it stays.
MBPs - gets Sandy Bridge and copper Lightpeak which replaces FireWire or minidisplayport or both. Makes most sense as adapters will be easy to implement on copper over light. Most likely to get BTO options for the 15" and 17". I.e. - replace standard HDD with 32/128/512gb SSD and additional HDD to replace OD slot.
No blade SSDs until Apple can gauge demand and preferences from the BTO options and to give Air some breathing room.
Nothing to get too excited about
I think I've got a new MBP coming my way soon (courtesy of my workplace). The timing is nice, but I wouldn't expect anything too radical. In other words, those who are just reading about the specs probably won't find much of a reason to celebrate. I expect a pretty standard update with the latest parts. I still think no Blu-Ray (doesn't take a genius) and no USB 3. I don't see LightPeak coming yet.
Here's something that would be great: Let's keep the entry level white plastic Macbook (stop booing!). What if we bring the price down to $699? How does that tickle you for your first laptop? Then we just bring the price of the iPad down to fend off any potential competition, and everything is cool.
OFF TOPIC:
Oh, Apple... please put Flash Player in the iPad. I have one that I LOVE, but I'd love it more if I could watch Comedy Network and a slew of other TV channels on it. I appreciate that you want to make the 30% cut off games rather than having me play them on Facebook for free (that IS what GameCenter was about more than competition for XBOX Live), but I would really get a kick out of being able to go everywhere on the internet. Most restaurants still have Flash websites. I got excited about the animations on your website today, but we could do this in Flash 10 years ago. A simple choice in System Preferences would be aces. Thanks guys.
Angry birds is cool, but a lot of the younger kids want to play Club Penguin (the first "social network" for many young children), or Poptropica, or Littlest Pet Shop Online, or Build A Bear Online, or.... Anyways, you'd make more on iPads to families without the Flash excuse and you'd stave off the wave of tablets you're about to have to compete with.
Apple did the first good tablet, but the clones are on the way.
I think I've got a new MBP coming my way soon (courtesy of my workplace). The timing is nice, but I wouldn't expect anything too radical. In other words, those who are just reading about the specs probably won't find much of a reason to celebrate. I expect a pretty standard update with the latest parts. I still think no Blu-Ray (doesn't take a genius) and no USB 3. I don't see LightPeak coming yet.
Here's something that would be great: Let's keep the entry level white plastic Macbook (stop booing!). What if we bring the price down to $699? How does that tickle you for your first laptop? Then we just bring the price of the iPad down to fend off any potential competition, and everything is cool.
OFF TOPIC:
Oh, Apple... please put Flash Player in the iPad. I have one that I LOVE, but I'd love it more if I could watch Comedy Network and a slew of other TV channels on it. I appreciate that you want to make the 30% cut off games rather than having me play them on Facebook for free (that IS what GameCenter was about more than competition for XBOX Live), but I would really get a kick out of being able to go everywhere on the internet. Most restaurants still have Flash websites. I got excited about the animations on your website today, but we could do this in Flash 10 years ago. A simple choice in System Preferences would be aces. Thanks guys.
Angry birds is cool, but a lot of the younger kids want to play Club Penguin (the first "social network" for many young children), or Poptropica, or Littlest Pet Shop Online, or Build A Bear Online, or.... Anyways, you'd make more on iPads to families without the Flash excuse and you'd stave off the wave of tablets you're about to have to compete with.
Apple did the first good tablet, but the clones are on the way.
quad core is very far outside their thermal envelope. And for what most people use their MBP's for, it's not necessary. I'll take the battery life and cool bottom case instead.