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So you illegally rip DVD's? So you basically just want the optical drive so you can perform illegal activities? That's a great trend to set for your children.

It's not illegal to make a backup of media you legally own or to transfer the medium of a movie for personal viewing. If you would like to argue the DMCA laws, then go ahead, but in this area there appears to be a bit of conflict, even between the laws. In fact, I recently wrote to the Trade Commissioner of the EU concerning this issue and the upcoming legislation aka ACTA concerning this matter.

BTW, I use my optical drive for a lot things, including software installation, backups, media (music, movies) importation to my laptop, etc. I don't pirate nor do I condone stealing nor do I use P2P services. I pay for what I possess.
 
It's not illegal to make a backup of media you legally own or to transfer the medium of a movie for personal viewing. If you would like to argue the DMCA laws, then go ahead, but in this area there appears to be a bit of conflict, even between the laws. In fact, I recently wrote to the Trade Commissioner of the EU concerning this issue and the upcoming legislation aka ACTA concerning this matter.

BTW, I use my optical drive for a lot things, including software installation, backups, media (music, movies) importation to my laptop, etc. I don't pirate nor do I condone stealing nor do I use P2P services. I pay for what I possess.
Just to let you know, it is illegal.

Everything you listed can be replaced with a USB thumb drive and/or external hard drive.
 
Again, I see increasing cost to the consumer for less function with the removal of ODDs--by Apple, by TTP, et al. (to ship a USB stick), etc.
Less function, as in a second hard drive, bigger battery, and/or faster CPU/GPU?

I still think many of you who want laptops without the ODD would be better served by a revamped MBA, especially if Apple were to increase the port options on it.
Considering the functionality lost by the internal optical drive, that revamped MBA would need to have higher specs than an MBP.
 
So you illegally rip DVD's? So you basically just want the optical drive so you can perform illegal activities? That's a great trend to set for your children.

Are we really going here, because my response to your trend setting for children is, do we really want to promote to them that Art is only for people who can afford it, and all the poor people of the world must wallow in a world where Art is not? Do we really want to start this philosophical debate here?

It's irrelevant how the optical drive is used. Let's discuss whether we need it internal or now. I vote for not - but only in a laptop. My desktop optical gets used enough that I don't want it external.
 
Interesting comments.

Actually, it is we techno-geeks on this board who have special interests. I deal with the masses on a daily basis. We are not the masses.
Well I'm certainly not the masses. However if you talk to a broad cross section of the population I think you will find that you are vastly overstating your case.

Case in point I was talking to a nurse the other day and she could stop talking about her brand new 3G IPad. She was very happy to point out that she got it the first day of release. In any event the most important comment was that she seldom used her Mac anymore.
It is only wasted in your opinion. People do use the ODD, even if you don't.
Exactly an opinioned shared by many others. Using your logic though the laptops AC power supply should be internal. After all it is used daily. The point is I use my power supply far more than my optical and that is external.
I have not had a problem with optical disc reliability. Perhaps you need to choose a different brand of media.
It is one of the reasons why everybody at work uses USB sticks these days. They are just less fiddly.
Maybe not, but there have been many instances when my daughter will watch a children's DVD played through the ODD of a MBP while the rest of the family watches, say, a football game.
A perfectly good use! But that still doesn't imply that every laptop needs a ODD. Remember one of the driving factors here is to provide for better laptops in the smaller sizes.
There is not always space for an external ODD and another peripheral mitigates the very idea of a laptop--a portable, fully functional and usable computer, including an ODD.
That is your definition! People who use Netbooks, ultra light laptops, iPads and other small formfactor devices would argue with that definition of a laptop.
Only if by better you mean removing functionality. Again, you may not use it, but others do.
You are completely missing the point here, people want to drop the internal ODD to add functionality. Looking at it this way you can see the positive aspect of the desire. The whole idea is to add features that modern users will find useful in compact laptops.

For example on the 13" MBP we could see a real GPU and space for a secod disk drive. Or maybe a bigger battery and a 3G radio. Or a larger battery and room for a disk array. The permutations are endless but I know many would love to see a faster graphical subsystem in the 13" MBP.

Of course is you use the drive constantly you don't see it as wasted space. If on the otherhand you don't use it every day then it is wasted space.
As I previously posted, perhaps it would be better for Apple to expand the MBA line and increase its power. I still think many of you who want laptops without the ODD would be better served by a revamped MBA, especially if Apple were to increase the port options on it.

the Mac Book AIR sucks on so many levels that I wouldn't even consider that. AIR is probably the biggest disappointment from Apple in recent history. Though honestly for me it is because of the high price you pay for what you are getting.

The thing here is that I can see your side of the story. Some people do use their opticals alot. The flip side is that many do not and I would say the portion that do not could easily justify a reconfigured model easily.

In a nut shell Apple needs to serve up machine more tailored to todays average users needs.

Dave
 
Less function, as in a second hard drive, bigger battery, and/or faster CPU/GPU?

Considering the functionality lost by the internal optical drive, that revamped MBA would need to have higher specs than an MBP.

Let's see:
Second hard drive--get an external hard drive
Bigger battery--how many hours do you use your laptop before recharging? Is not 8-10 hours enough?
Faster CPU/GPU--I doubt Apple will upgrade this more than it has due to thinness and case material, not space.
 
Second hard drive--get an external hard drive
Optical drive--get an external optical drive

Faster CPU/GPU--I doubt Apple will upgrade this more than it has due to thinness and case material, not space.
Doesn't more internal empty space mean better cooling? As for the bigger battery, if hotter (and more powerful) CPU/GPU is used, then a bigger battery is needed for the same battery life.
 
Let's see:
Second hard drive--get an external hard drive
Bigger battery--how many hours do you use your laptop before recharging? Is not 8-10 hours enough?
Faster CPU/GPU--I doubt Apple will upgrade this more than it has due to thinness and case material, not space.

Funniest thing I've read all week.
 
I said it was only a matter of time before optical media is dead... BluRay is going to be useless in good time anyway...

Yes, in decades. So long that your position is irrelevant.

I don't know about you but I'd rather have a USB thumb stick slightly out of my computer over an optical drive that takes up 1/3 of the computers internal space.

You'll see the demise of optical media before you'll see movies shipped on flash drives.
 
...Remember one of the driving factors here is to provide for better laptops in the smaller sizes. ...

Okay. Perhaps the problem here is Apple's lack of choices: no netbook type laptop and a poorly implemented MBA.

You are completely missing the point here, people want to drop the internal ODD to add other functionality. Looking at it this way you can see the positive aspect of the desire. The whole idea is to add features that modern users will find useful in compact laptops.

Fixed.

For example on the 13" MBP we could see a real GPU and space for a secod disk drive. Or maybe a bigger battery and a 3G radio. Or a larger battery and room for a disk array. The permutations are endless but I know many would love to see a faster graphical subsystem in the 13" MBP.

As would I. I am not sure how other companies are including a discrete graphics chip in a 13" when Apple seemingly cannot.

Of course if you use the drive constantly you don't see it as wasted space. If on the otherhand you don't use it every day then it is wasted space.

Agreed.


the Mac Book AIR sucks on so many levels that I wouldn't even consider that. AIR is probably the biggest disappointment from Apple in recent history. Though honestly for me it is because of the high price you pay for what you are getting.

Agreed. This is why I have not purchased and have yet to recommend the MBA to others.

The thing here is that I can see your side of the story. Some people do use their opticals alot. The flip side is that many do not and I would say the portion that do not could easily justify a reconfigured model easily.

In a nut shell Apple needs to serve up machine more tailored to todays average users needs.

Dave

Again, I agree with you. It would be nice if Apple included discrete GPUs in all MBPs and perhaps integrated low-end hybrid/discrete graphics with the Air to differentiate. I would even take a smaller battery in the 13" to have discrete graphics and an ODD, but that is my preference.

I realize that much of the above discussion is based on preferences, but to me, an ODD is necessary when the laptop is the primary computer. Hopefully, Apple will add more variety to its line-up so everyone is happy, but that is my dream.
 
It's not the cost of the device, it's the inability to press flash media like you can optical media. Putting video on flash media will increase the production cost dramatically.
Find me data that shows putting video on flash media will increase the production cost. I'd love to see it.
 
it would be a nice upgrade after they clear a ton of stock with the college promo.
 
Find me data that shows putting video on flash media will increase the production cost. I'd love to see it.

I think he was meaning cost of getting the movie out. What id the price difference of pressing a dvd/blu-ray versus getting the same amount of flash memory. Not that it matters, they would just pass the cost on to us anyways.
 
I think he was meaning cost of getting the movie out. What id the price difference of pressing a dvd/blu-ray versus getting the same amount of flash memory. Not that it matters, they would just pass the cost on to us anyways.
Again, I'd like to see data that it would cost these companies more to put it on flash media until another decade rolls around.

Also I came across a rather interesting article not too long ago, maybe some of you should read it:
http://www.glgroup.com/News/Optical...aced-by-flash-memory-in-computers--44606.html
 
Find me data that shows putting video on flash media will increase the production cost. I'd love to see it.

Well, during any production time=money, as more copies made per hour = more money. Making a DVD/BD takes a second, or less, copying a 30 GB movie to an SD card takes minutes.
 
Find me data that shows putting video on flash media will increase the production cost. I'd love to see it.

Pressing a Blu-ray disc with 50 gb of data takes a few minutes. Copying that much to flash memory would take an hour or two by USB. Time is money. Not to mention the cost of flash vs. optical (where market demand for flash is still increasing thanks to its use in other devices).
 
Again, I'd like to see data that it would cost these companies more to put it on flash media until another decade rolls around.

Also I came across a rather interesting article not too long ago, maybe some of you should read it:
http://www.glgroup.com/News/Optical...aced-by-flash-memory-in-computers--44606.html

Nice article. I do feel that at some point optical media will go away.

Those faster i7's will be nice. Does anyone know how to actually verify in OS X that turboboost is actually doing something?
 
Pressing a Blu-ray disc with 50 gb of data takes a few minutes. Copying that much to flash memory would take an hour or two by USB. Time is money. Not to mention the cost of flash vs. optical (where market demand is still increasing thanks to its use in other devices.

USB 3.0 and future Lightpeak drives say hello. ;)
 
I don't see Apple getting rid of the optical drive on this next update or any time in the near future. The reason is simply because the optical drive is a feature. Apple loves adding and keeping features that are cheap for them add and at least on the surface increase the value of their computers. It's like the SD slot that was added to the MBP line last year. Is the SD slot really necessary. No. I never use it. But some people do use it and it's a cheap add on feature that increases the value of the computer, without really increasing the cost or production of the computer.

The ODD is one of the few features that has remained unchanged on the MBP line for quite sometime. It is also a feature that Apple loves to tout on their product page. It's actually cheaper for Apple to keep the ODD and charge a couple extra hundred dollars for the price of the MBP, then to eliminate it and have to reduce the price, or deal with an outcry from consumers because they have eliminated a feature, while charging the same price. I would suspect that the ODD will be with us for at least a few more update cycles.
 
I don't get it. Why do people back up on DVDs? It's slower, not a reliable. Why not just use a external HDD and backup with time machine? Doesn't everybody do that? Hearing people talking about backing up with discs sounds sooo 2002.
 
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