MacBook Pro Upgrade At Photokina?

[dbit]

Does anybody on this board whose watched Apple for the majority of their existence have reason to believe that they might delay as long as Santa Rosa?

I really need a new machine but I don't want to pick one up right before core 2's on Macbook Pro's are released.

I'm still on a PB G4 800 mhz and it's hurting.

That being said, obviously I don't buy a new computer every two years, so this is a long term important investment for me. I will hold out if it makes sense. I know that there will be some temptation to respond "G4 800 Mhz? Just get the Yonah, you'll be in a heavenly place compaired to where you're at!", but I will still shoot myself in the damn foot if Core 2's are released by November.

I know that this is generally just a repeat of the begging question that started this whole thread. I'm just curious if any old timers that are very familiar with Apples strategies have some insight into just how long they might hold out.

 

[Reach]

Hard to know, we're all pretty new at Apple and this Intel-game..

I for one would not at all think that Apple, ehich has now managed to get 12%(!!) og the laptop-market, would let this historic opportunity to stay strong and maybe even get stronger, pass on them. And by not upgrading until next year would mean they lose much of their position, obviously.
Granted, many don't yet know the difference between CD and C2D etc, but they will, and pretty soon, so I can't imagine Apple being stupid enough to wait much longer. And if they are, I won't be that sad leaving them either.. (I do NOT want to leave, I'm waiting to buy for now, but I only wait until I think a reasonable time has passed, and it is indeed apporaching)

 

[ergle2]

ergle2 - "Core 2 is unusual in that it's a huge jump over the NetBurst days"

Are you now guilty of mixing chips and platforms

No. both Core and NetBurst are archs, but Intel has repeatedly claimed that Core 2 is the first "true" Core arch processor.

Core 2 - that is, the current Conroe/Allendale chips - are a big jump over the NetBurst arch CPUs.

Core isn't a platform and neither is NetBurst.

 

[ergle2]

Netburst is/was the Pentium architecture??? Core2 is the chip, is it also the architecture name?

NetBurst is the Pentium 4 arch.

Core 2 is more or less evolutionary -- Pentium Pro/2/3/M/Core is the line.

 

[Multimedia]

It's 20% Faster Now Not 10%

So you guys seem to agree that the C2D chip will increase performance by about 10%. Is that because the motherboard or OS doesn't support 64-bit? (which is it, the motherboard or the OS?)

I want a macbook, but I'm not really in a hurry. Can someone give me an estimate for how much Santa Rosa will make a difference? (is it just yet another 10%?)

Obvioulsy, I can't wait forever, but I also refuse to buy right now, just before the obvious C2D upgrade. I'll probably go with the first gen C2D, unless you guys think that Santa Rosa in early '07 would be MORE than just another incremental upgrade. do you?

I do not agree with that and I don't think many here do either.

It's not 10%. It's 20% and that's now. Santa Rosa will not help. If you think going from a 667MHz to 800MHz FSB matters then I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.

 

[Multimedia]

dbit Learn To Sell Your Macs Before They Are Antiques

Does anybody on this board whose watched Apple for the majority of their existence have reason to believe that they might delay as long as Santa Rosa?

Since 1984. No. None. It's this Fall for sure IMHO.

I really need a new machine but I don't want to pick one up right before core 2's on Macbook Pro's are released.

I'm still on a PB G4 800 mhz and it's hurting.

That being said, obviously I don't buy a new computer every two years, so this is a long term important investment for me. I will hold out if it makes sense. I know that there will be some temptation to respond "G4 800 Mhz? Just get the Yonah, you'll be in a heavenly place compaired to where you're at!", but I will still shoot myself in the damn foot if Core 2's are released by November.

It will be. But you don't have to hang on to every Mac you buy forever. You would be much better served selling what you have every year and getting the latest for only a few hundred more. I sold every one of my G5's for more than or no more than $500 less than the next one. By hanging on to one model too long, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

I sold my 2.5 GHz DP G5 for $2500 and paid $2800 for the Quad. You are really missing the boat by not focusing on SELLING every time the next great thing comes along.

I know that this is generally just a repeat of the begging question that started this whole thread. I'm just curious if any old timers that are very familiar with Apples strategies have some insight into just how long they might hold out.

I am among the oldest of old timers here and they must release C2D MBP this Fall.

 

[ergle2]

I'll be lazy and not dig up the various posts this is in response to, and I'm repeating myself but it seems pertinent:

Apple already has the "MacOS X faithful" -- those that want/need MacOS X enough that they won't go elsewhere. They're a given.

Apple wants to expand. That means PC users "switching". That's the focus of their current ad campaign.

Apple will have significantly greater trouble persuading people to "switch" if they are using last gen's CPU.

Even the less technologically inclined can read a bullet-point list, and what sounds better? Core Duo vs Core 2 Duo? Bear in mind Intel has a huge TV ad campaign pushing Core 2 Duo right now too.

Remember, these are people that know Pentium/Pentium II/Pentium !!!/Pentium 4 brands already.

Sure, there's a lot of people who wouldn't even know if their CPU was silicon or a piece of Edam. There's enough that know "just enough" tho'.

Apple can't afford to spend ~6months with a "last gen" CPU, especially with Intel's own lit listing Core Duo as "low end"...

 

[daneoni]

If mobility is not crucial the Mac Pro is definitely the way to go. Way more power for the same money and even if you don't add more expensive RAM - almost $200 per GB - it will scream with the 1GB it comes with.

I have the Dell 2005WFP 24" next to a Dell 20" 1600x1200 and the combination is perfect. The 20" is on sale from time to time for only about $400. So both for only about $1100 make for a great display dynamic duo.

If mobility is important, you can still drive the Dell 24" with a 1.83GHz refurb MacBook for $949 to get you from here to the C2D MBP. Should be able to resell it for no less than $800 later.

My thoughts exactly. My Uni is somewhat friendly to macs, i saw an eMac in one of the admin officers...office. Although most students carry Dell/Hp notebooks (yet to see a mac laptop). Anyway, i still have a PowerBook which is more than capable. I guess my fear is with presentations, i will be doing a lot of presentations and keynote i fear, may not integrate well with a PowerPoint world. Although i see no reason why it shouldn't. It sure would be nice to use the Apple remote to control slides instead of tapping on the trackpad

Would i prefer mobility of a MBPM....yes. Can i live without one for now....yes.

I think i'll take the plunge on the Dell display.

 

[Sopranino]

Reliable source points to new Edam based chips

...Sure, there's a lot of people who wouldn't even know if their CPU was silicon or a piece of Edam. There's enough that know "just enough" tho'.

-Chuckle-

Sopranino

 

[PowerBookG5]

I just want them to announce it, hell it doesn't even have to ship right away.

 

[ergle2]

I sold my 2.5 GHz DP G5 for $2500 and paid $2800 for the Quad. You are really missing the boat by not focusing on SELLING every time the next great thing comes along.I am among the oldest of old timers here and they must release C2D MBP this Fall.

It'll be interesting to see if Apple machines continue to hold their value as well once the Intel switch "sinks in". Intel's lines update quite a bit faster than the Mac market is used to.

Given that, and that Apple systems are now essentially commodity hardware in a well-designed case (with the Apple brand and the all-important ability to run OS X legally/without hassle), it may be that as time goes by, the value of older systems will drop quite a bit faster.

I suspect it will play out that way, but I wouldn't want to stake money on it.

 

[spercharged69]

Yep, I upgraded from a loaded 20" iMac Core Duo to a loaded 24" iMac Core 2 Duo for a couple hundred bucks. I do the same thing as Multimedia. Works out awesome.

Also sold my 15" MacBook Pro when the 17" came out... same deal.

I think you work out spending pretty close to the same amount of money in the end than if you were buying hardware, using it for 3 years until it is junk, then buying new again.

 

[theWholeTruth]

You would be much better served selling what you have every year and getting the latest for only a few hundred more. I sold every one of my G5's for more than or no more than $500 less than the next one. By hanging on to one model too long, you are shooting yourself in the foot.

I sold my 2.5 GHz DP G5 for $2500 and paid $2800 for the Quad. You are really missing the boat by not focusing on SELLING every time the next great thing comes along.I am among the oldest of old timers here and they must release C2D MBP this Fall.

Maybe some people can use what they have without worrying if their web page will load 3ms faster. Or perhaps they would rather have that 500 bucks and time spent selling every year to invest and enjoy life. I've had my desktop for 6 years and only NOW, am I feeling the need to upgrade. Everybody's situation is different...

 

[lolsdaka]

I have a bridge in Brooklyn I would like to sell you.

I think it has nothing to do with too much heat or any other "problem" apple might have encountered.
Back to School is big time selling. Switching to C2D would have been an impossible challenge to provide the number of orders. That's why they put their stock of C2D into iMac which sells less in quantity, thus is more easy to provide.
A guy on the forum entered the serial number of his brandnew MBP and it appeared that it was made like 2 weeks before...We can't ignore it. I think right now apple continues to produce Yonahs MBP because they have to provide them to the many masses that ordered one during Back to School period.
Given they have not lowered the prices of Yonahs MBP (which is not very nice ! but pretty smart of them) they can't really release the new one right now !
Logically it will be released before christmas. Some people talk about april 07 for SantaRosa but look how late they are right now ! Can't believe they won't update it til then...
Or they have to lower the F price now ! ...But won't...

 

[spercharged69]

Maybe some people can use what they have without worrying if their web page will load 3ms faster.

Yes, and some people use Macs as tools for their business where a faster machine makes them more money, what's your point? I'd be willing to bet that Multimedia and I spend barely more money selling and upgrading than you do by buying a completely loaded machine every x years and using it until it's scrap metal.

 

[jfsouza]

Can someone explain to me why Core 2 Duo is being refered to as the "first" core processor with core architecture?

 

[jhande]

Wow. I have been having the same thought since yesterday. Thinking about a MacMini or a iMac 17" (middle model). However, I know my useage patterns, and once the MBPM (tired of typing Merom) comes out, the desktop will sit, unused...

Ahh, what to do. Also, I know I would want to "pimp out" a mini (since I hear RAM upgrades are a pain), and don't really want to drop $1200 on an "interim" system.. - Plus the mini isn't C2D !!! AHHHHHHH....GET OUT OF MY HEAD!!!!

That's precisely what I did two days ago, but a MB (need the mobility), full specs. I just couldn't wait any longer. Shipping 10/2 arr. 10/11 (tho' that typically fluctuates, in my experience)

 

[jfsouza]

I think it has nothing to do with too much heat or any other "problem" apple might have encountered.
Back to School is big time selling. Switching to C2D would have been an impossible challenge to provide the number of orders. That's why they put their stock of C2D into iMac which sells less in quantity, thus is more easy to provide.
A guy on the forum entered the serial number of his brandnew MBP and it appeared that it was made like 2 weeks before...We can't ignore it. I think right now apple continues to produce Yonahs MBP because they have to provide them to the many masses that ordered one during Back to School period.
Given they have not lowered the prices of Yonahs MBP (which is not very nice ! but pretty smart of them) they can't really release the new one right now !
Logically it will be released before christmas. Some people talk about april 07 for SantaRosa but look how late they are right now ! Can't believe they won't update it til then...
Or they have to lower the F price now ! ...But won't...

I agree with this which is why it makes perfect sense that the whole line will be updated around the time of the London Expo.

 

[Multimedia]

My 6 Year Old PowerMac Has Been Great The Whole Ride - Strictly Surfing That Is

Maybe some people can use what they have without worrying if their web page will load 3ms faster. Or perhaps they would rather have that 500 bucks and time spent selling every year to invest and enjoy life. I've had my desktop for 6 years and only NOW, am I feeling the need to upgrade. Everybody's situation is different...

Ignorance is bliss.

I sold my first 2.5 DP G5 for $4,000 and replaced it with another one for $2,000. It's not always about losing money in those transactions. A 6 year old PM G4 would be running 350-500MHz. I see it's a dual 450 G4. Very cool. I believe that's the first DP PM G4 if memory serves. That may be a collectors item in that case.

I still ahve a couple of Cubes from that era that surf and do email great.

You couldn't have been doing anything that stresses that level of Power for these 6 years without knowing you were missing a lot. So for email and browsing sure. I doubt anyone here has been rolling over their Macs to get the next one so their browsers would come up faster. That was a joke right?

If I hadn't sold my last 2.5GHz DP G5 in February and gotten the Quad, I would not be able to do the most meanial of tasks up against the video compression work I do all the time on it. So yes, individuality does come into play. But what we are saying is that the cumulative total of money needed to be spent from one model to the next after resale equals the same amount of money OR LESS than it does to buy a new one every 3 years or MORE.

Yes, and some people use Macs as tools for their business where a faster machine makes them more money, what's your point? I'd be willing to bet that Multimedia and I spend barely more money selling and upgrading than you do by buying a completely loaded machine every x years and using it until it's scrap metal.

Zactly.

 

[ergle2]

Can someone explain to me why Core 2 Duo is being refered to as the "first" core processor with core architecture?

Marketing

Bear in mind there were no desktop Core-based CPUs.

 

[ergle2]

I think it has nothing to do with too much heat or any other "problem" apple might have encountered.
Back to School is big time selling. Switching to C2D would have been an impossible challenge to provide the number of orders.

I've said for a while I figured the reason they hadn't upgraded the notebooks yet was down to not having enough supply to fulfil both iMac orders and MBP orders, and the delay was about waiting til Intel had ramped up production enough.

As you suggest, it could be they didn't want to upgrade even the MBP line until after the "back to school" period was over.

 

[Neuroguy]

Maybe we are jumping the gun

Hi All,

I am thinking that maybe our excitement has us jumping the gun. I was just reading an article on CNET, and it states that some HP etc. C2D are "just starting" to appear on store shelves. Also, I know the non-thinkpad Lenovo C2D was released very recently, and the last time I checked at the Dell site, the earliest ship date for a C2D was Sept. 25th. So, maybe Apple is a week behind some of the others, but in looking back, maybe we'll all laugh at ourselves for thinking that Steve abandonded us, when the others came out on the 25th of Sept, and we had to wait until (GASP!) October 3rd. I am really hoping this is the case.

Neuroguy

-----------------------------
This thread is starting to give me the shakes.

 

[iBorg20181]

I'll be lazy and not dig up the various posts this is in response to, and I'm repeating myself but it seems pertinent:

Apple already has the "MacOS X faithful" -- those that want/need MacOS X enough that they won't go elsewhere. They're a given.

Apple wants to expand. That means PC users "switching". That's the focus of their current ad campaign.

Apple will have significantly greater trouble persuading people to "switch" if they are using last gen's CPU.

Even the less technologically inclined can read a bullet-point list, and what sounds better? Core Duo vs Core 2 Duo? Bear in mind Intel has a huge TV ad campaign pushing Core 2 Duo right now too.

Remember, these are people that know Pentium/Pentium II/Pentium !!!/Pentium 4 brands already.

Sure, there's a lot of people who wouldn't even know if their CPU was silicon or a piece of Edam. There's enough that know "just enough" tho'.

Apple can't afford to spend ~6months with a "last gen" CPU, especially with Intel's own lit listing Core Duo as "low end"...

Well-said, ergle2, your post is spot-on!



iBorg

 

[barkins]

Hi All,

I am thinking that maybe our excitement has us jumping the gun. I was just reading an article on CNET, and it states that some HP etc. C2D are "just starting" to appear on store shelves. Also, I know the non-thinkpad Lenovo C2D was released very recently, and the last time I checked at the Dell site, the earliest ship date for a C2D was Sept. 25th. So, maybe Apple is a week behind some of the others, but in looking back, maybe we'll all laugh at ourselves for thinking that Steve abandonded us, when the others came out on the 25th of Sept, and we had to wait until (GASP!) October 3rd. I am really hoping this is the case.

Neuroguy

-----------------------------
This thread is starting to give me the shakes.

Well I hope you're right. Although I haven't been waiting for the new MBP for as long as some of you here, I have been waiting for some time.

But what makes you think Oct. 3rd will be the day?

 

[Multimedia]

Neuroguy Makes A Good Point All The Other C2D Mobiles Are Barely Shipping As Well

Hi All,

I am thinking that maybe our excitement has us jumping the gun. I was just reading an article on CNET, and it states that some HP etc. C2D are "just starting" to appear on store shelves. Also, I know the non-thinkpad Lenovo C2D was released very recently, and the last time I checked at the Dell site, the earliest ship date for a C2D was Sept. 25th. So, maybe Apple is a week behind some of the others, but in looking back, maybe we'll all laugh at ourselves for thinking that Steve abandonded us, when the others came out on the 25th of Sept, and we had to wait until (GASP!) October 3rd. I am really hoping this is the case.

Neuroguy

-----------------------------
This thread is starting to give me the shakes.

Yeah I agree completely. Moreover, I think the unexpectedly surprise early release of the C2D iMacs right after Labor Day really threw us for a loop. "How Dare They Give Consumer Desktops first dibbs on OUR Precious." lol.