Macbook Pro vs. Dell XPS 15

[Looon]

i would go with the macbook for one reason......................... it comes with APPLE STICKERS . thats the whole reason i bought mine. thats not true. but for real you should go with the mac. once i switched i can never go back to a pc. its more the software then the hardware. and it will last you longer because apple supports them a lot longer then Microsoft does.

UMMMMM Windows XP is still going to be supported up until 2014 and it came out in 2001
Stop blindly supporting Macs for no reason

 

[bocomo]

wow, a lot of accusations and accusatory posts here (but i guess that's to be expected in a thread like this)

it's hard to put into words sometimes how nice i find working with my macs. i would have had to log all of the little frustrations and troubles i had with my pcs to give you real concrete examples. that's why the "it just works" line is so true but so vague

i absolutely LOVE the glass trackpads -- there is NO comparison i've found

i don't like the way windows is designed. it's clunky and cluttered and ugly. and yes i've used windows 7 enough to know i don't like it. it may be more secure and stable but it's still designed like vista

for a good comparison of what i'm talking about, pull up System Preferences on a mac and then pull up Control Panel on a pc

 

[Ach111es]

Also if this hasn't been touched on...PCs literally have no resell value.

 

[HacKage]

Also if this hasn't been touched on...PCs literally have no resell value.

Nail on the head. Last year I had came to the point of wanting a new laptop. I had always used Sony Vaio up until that point, and absolutely loved them. I decided to make the jump to a MBP to see what they are like, but mainly because I knew the resale value was so high.My £1900 MBP sold for £1700 6 months after I bought it, if I had bought the similarly spec'd Vaio Z series, my £1900 laptop would have sold for around £1200-1300 in the same time frame.

I wouldn't say that the MBP's build quality was better or worse than the top Vaio's because I gave my Vaios some amount of abuse and they took it. The main reason why I like Macs is OS X. Pure and simple. I could build a similar spec Windows machine for a fraction of the price, but it doesn't have OS X, and that is the main pulling point for me now.

I am using a Windows Sony Vaio atm, and I don't hate it, but it makes me realise just how much I love OS X.

 

[HarryPot]

I've never owned a Dell. So far I have just owned an IBM Thinkpad (when they were actually very good computers) and my current Black MacBook.

For me the decision of buying a Mac is in the next criteria:

1- 50% is the OS. Mac OS X is simply awesome, and I couldn't go back to using Windows.

2- 25% design. I love the simplicity of the MacBook (Pro) design. PCs (other brands) are ugly. They have stickers all over the place and normally come in a combination of colors that make me eyes bleed.

3- 15% is the hardware. I don't really care about RAM, HD space, GPU, etc. I still have the 1st generation Black MacBook Core Duo, and it makes everything I need.

4- 10%is the buying/service experience. I absolutely despise Dell/HP/Acer webpages. They're a mess, and they have tons of different computers and configurations. And getting support tends to be much more difficult in my experience.

On the other hand, there's no better place for me than an Apple Store or the Apple webpage, and the support they offer is amazing. I actually get excited when entering an Apple Store. I still remember the first time I bought something at the Apple Store and they charged me with an iPhone to my CC. I had a big stupid smile in my face.

 

[AUZambo]

Both machines can work. Just depends on your wants and needs.

True...both machines do work...but you have to really try hard to screw up a mac. It is very easy to accidentally screw up a Windows computer.

My mom uses her computer for very basic things (browsing, word processing, spreadsheets, etc.). Since I bought my MBP in 2006, my mom has purchased 2 new Windows computers, and is in need of a third one. They keep getting bogged down with all kinds of crap, and her current one is taking over 10 minutes to load. She tries customer support, talking to her tech savvy friends (mostly me), and still can't seem to get it all cleared up.

Meanwhile, my MBP runs like a charm. I didn't run a single clean-up utility for FOUR YEARS (never cleaned cache, history, etc.) and it still booted in less than 2 minutes. Now that I upgraded the hard drive and RAM and discovered OnyX I'm back to booting in 30 seconds. I'm hoping I can still go a few more years before buying a new one.

Unless I'm just completely strapped for cash, I'll never buy another Windows computer.

 

[oplix]

If you don't care about ****** battery life and a ****** trackpad then PC is the way to go.

 

[mikeo007]

True...both machines do work...but you have to really try hard to screw up a mac. It is very easy to accidentally screw up a Windows computer.

Change a permission and watch your Mac drop to its knees. Or "rm -rf /"...go ahead, I'll wait.

Lots of misinformation on both sides of this argument, but others are doing a good job of straightening things out.

Just remember kids: your opinion is just that, an OPINION. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean that everyone else has to hate it too.

 

[grahamnp]

The Mac is built better and is arguably nicer looking. If you're even comparing the two, I guess these two things don't mean much to you. Fair enough.

The MBP also has much better battery life, is more compact, lighter and runs OSX. The Dell is pretty large for a 15" laptop in person. I think it is only worth it if space/weight is at a premium and you really like OSX. I think OSX makes it worth it, current gen MBP's are quite powerful so the price premium has never been easier to justify.

 

[dnenciu]

Change a permission and watch your Mac drop to its knees. Or "rm -rf /"...go ahead, I'll wait.

Lots of misinformation on both sides of this argument, but others are doing a good job of straightening things out.

Just remember kids: your opinion is just that, an OPINION. Just because you don't like something, doesn't mean that everyone else has to hate it too.

First you need to know how to open a terminal and second you need to use sudo in front if you want that command to have the effect you are implying. That is a lot more than a regular user would ever know how to do.

In windows too you can go and delete entries in the registry if you are intent on destroying your os.

Anecdotal story:
When I was a student I was making cash doing tech support for other students. This girl asked me to setup her PC with windows, office and a couple of other items. I set everything up for her. She calls me the next day and tells me that her computer would not boot. I asked her if she did something and she tells me that she found this folder windows on her drive that was taking a lot of space and she deleted it.
Now granted that was in the win95 times.

 

[mikeo007]

First you need to know how to open a terminal and second you need to use sudo in front if you want that command to have the effect you are implying. That is a lot more than a regular user would ever know how to do.

In windows too you can go and delete entries in the registry if you are intent on destroying your os.

Anecdotal story:
When I was a student I was making cash doing tech support for other students. This girl asked me to setup her PC with windows, office and a couple of other items. I set everything up for her. She calls me the next day and tells me that her computer would not boot. I asked her if she did something and she tells me that she found this folder windows on her drive that was taking a lot of space and she deleted it.
Now granted that was in the win95 times.

And of course, a regular user likely wouldn't be digging in the registry, correct? Also, I didn't put the entire command, just in case someone decided to try it.

Purposely destroying an OS is a simple command with virtually any operating system, so I don't think that was the point of this discussion. I was simply replying to the person who said you have to try really hard to screw up a Mac. You don't have to try hard at all to screw up any computer.

To stop accidental deletion like you referred to, the trick is to hide the OS underpinnings from the user. It would be hard to argue that OSX wasn't better at this, sometimes to the point of being annoying to the power user!

 

[joeswamp]

I think this question boils down to how much your time is worth. If you don't mind being frustrated by badly designed hardware/software and a machine that breaks/overheats/blue screens all the time, then a Dell is for you. My work machine has gone through several OS reinstalls and a replacement logic board. Our IT people say Dell is crap but they are dirt cheap and they do fix their stuff.

Windows 7 is better than XP (and a lot better than the disaster that was Vista) but it's essentially fancy gift wrapping around a paper bag of crap. W7 is still built around the amazing self-destructing registry (possibly the single worst idea in the history of computers), it's still a slow bloated resource hog, and it still has all kinds of hardware/software compatibility issues. It's prettier and better than its predecessors, but it's still a total mess.

 

[HacKage]

I think you're going a bit ott there with the Apple blinkers on. The vast vast vast majority of Dell machines don't just break. Nor do they just start overheating, nor do they just randomly just start BSOD. That is the same for any laptops available.

How you use your laptop determines how it lasts. I have never, ever used an AV program on my Windows computers, yet I have never had the virus troubles that others have. Windows may be riddled with crippling viruses, but I have yet to experience them. If you are a competent computer user and clever enough to know what pages to go on and what not, you don't need one. Just like you will know not to install 15 toolbars and any malware or crap that pops up which so many people do and it cripples their machine.

Dells do a job. They do that job cheaply, and they do it well. As for W7 being better than XP, I disagree. I feel that using XP it is far snappier on near enough everything, and when I do a Bootcamp partition, it is always with XP, not W7. Apple certainly isn't the be all and end all, but they are good machines, with a great OS that holds their value. Those who totally disregard Windows laptops are being a bit harsh I feel, as a lot of it is just the sheep mentality that is so common in the Apple community.

 

[mikeo007]

I think this question boils down to how much your time is worth. If you don't mind being frustrated by badly designed hardware/software and a machine that breaks/overheats/blue screens all the time, then a Dell is for you. My work machine has gone through several OS reinstalls and a replacement logic board. Our IT people say Dell is crap but they are dirt cheap and they do fix their stuff.

Windows 7 is better than XP (and a lot better than the disaster that was Vista) but it's essentially fancy gift wrapping around a paper bag of crap. W7 is still built around the amazing self-destructing registry (possibly the single worst idea in the history of computers), it's still a slow bloated resource hog, and it still has all kinds of hardware/software compatibility issues. It's prettier and better than its predecessors, but it's still a total mess.

Dont make ignorant, uninformed claims. What do you consider "badly" designed hardware and software?

 

[Looon]

I think this question boils down to how much your time is worth. If you don't mind being frustrated by badly designed hardware/software and a machine that breaks/overheats/blue screens all the time, then a Dell is for you. My work machine has gone through several OS reinstalls and a replacement logic board. Our IT people say Dell is crap but they are dirt cheap and they do fix their stuff.

Windows 7 is better than XP (and a lot better than the disaster that was Vista) but it's essentially fancy gift wrapping around a paper bag of crap. W7 is still built around the amazing self-destructing registry (possibly the single worst idea in the history of computers), it's still a slow bloated resource hog, and it still has all kinds of hardware/software compatibility issues. It's prettier and better than its predecessors, but it's still a total mess.

This is obviously just the ramblings of someone who bought a Dell and had some kind of problem with it so now he's using the internet to vent his frustrations. You can't verify ANY of these statements.
Dells don't just randomly break all the time. Windows 7 is a great operating system and is far from a resource hog. There are no major "hardware/software" compatibility issues I know of, so unless you can actually back some of this up nobody can take you seriously.

 

[eagle63]

This is obviously just the ramblings of someone who bought a Dell and had some kind of problem with it so now he's using the internet to vent his frustrations. You can't verify ANY of these statements.
Dells don't just randomly break all the time. Windows 7 is a great operating system and is far from a resource hog. There are no major "hardware/software" compatibility issues I know of, so unless you can actually back some of this up nobody can take you seriously.

While I agree that there's a lot of venom and unnecessary exaggeration in his post, he did hit on a couple of things I agree with. First, I think it's a little hard to speak well of the registry. It's a frustrating thing to work with if you're an application developer, and it makes uninstallation more challenging than it should be. (this is why there's a market for 3rd party apps that do nothing but uninstall other apps that didn't get cleanly uninstalled in the first place) To be blunt, I'm not sure the registry has really scaled very well over the years. It's a single point of failure for application settings, and I'm also not sure that it's entirely necessary to make a full-blown database just to store these settings. (why can't text files be used such as with linux or osx?)

As for performance, I'll give you my own findings on windows vs. *nix: As a software developer who primarily works with enterprise Java applications, I've benchmarked the time it takes to compile large applications on windows 7, linux, and OSX. Windows is typically around 100% slower. So an application that takes 7 minutes to build on linux takes around 14 on windows. (that's on the same hardware) The reason for this is all in the filesystem. NTFS is just dog-slow compared to what's used on linux (usually ext-4) or OSX. I realize this is a bit of a narrow use-case that doesn't affect your average consumer. But if you want a real-world example, there it is.

 

[dnenciu]

This is obviously just the ramblings of someone who bought a Dell and had some kind of problem with it so now he's using the internet to vent his frustrations. You can't verify ANY of these statements.
Dells don't just randomly break all the time. Windows 7 is a great operating system and is far from a resource hog. There are no major "hardware/software" compatibility issues I know of, so unless you can actually back some of this up nobody can take you seriously.

I own a Dell Latitude laptop as well as an IBM Thinkpad and had HP business models before.

I can just say that Dell is cheap for a reason they are lower quality, hp is not far ahead.

Now the Thinkpad is built like a tank and is a higher quality than the other two but it doesn't have the style of an mbp, it has more a utilitarian business look but if I had to choose a windows laptop it would be a Thinkpad.

 

[joeswamp]

Sorry I guess my post may have come on a bit too strong...

Not trying to say that every Dell breaks or every Windows machine is riddled with viruses, but Dell and HP laptops are built to a price, not to a quality level. At work we have constant problems with Dells and we only keep them because the Dell guy is out fixing them every week (our HP machines broke just as often but the support wasn't as good). Of course not all PCs are junk, Thinkpads have traditionally been very well made for example.

Some of these cheap machines are cheaply designed as well as manufactured. My wife's HP laptop from work has this touch volume control that works so poorly that it's comical -- as you struggle to adjust the volume (and it slams to max/min levels) you seriously wonder if someone actually spent any time designing it. Her machine is constantly blasting the fan as well, making me wonder if the same guy did the thermal analysis.

As for badly designed software, I'm referring to several elements of Windows: how there's no distinction between app and document windows, how the whole system is built around a single self-corrupting file, how menus for apps are not well standardized, and how typical actions typically require more steps in Windows than in OSX (how does one save a pdf web receipt with one click in Windows?) Of course there are some details where Windows is better, but as far as I can tell the design of OSX is vastly better thought out than that of Windows, including W7.

Edit: I should mention one more thing. My first exposure to OSX was due to my purchase of a cheap netbook. It came with XP (not capable of running Vista or 7) and was so slow that it was really a pain to use. A fried at work brought his in -- the exact same hardware -- that he had converted to a hackintosh. His machine was totally usable -- felt snappy in fact -- and booted up faster than my uber-expensive engineering workstation at the time.

 

[munkery]

Dell Latitudes are in the equivalent class of laptop as a Mac. Find a Dell Latitude with the same spec as that MacBook Pro and the Dell will cost the same.

 

[calderone]

This is obviously just the ramblings of someone who bought a Dell and had some kind of problem with it so now he's using the internet to vent his frustrations. You can't verify ANY of these statements.
Dells don't just randomly break all the time. Windows 7 is a great operating system and is far from a resource hog. There are no major "hardware/software" compatibility issues I know of, so unless you can actually back some of this up nobody can take you seriously.

I worked at a large state university, Dells were king. Every model we had, during my three years as a tech there, had at least one catastrophic flaw.

I remember when it started with the Optiplex GX620. A power supply here, a power supply there. That summer we had to replace PSUs in over 100 machines. That is just one example.

Flash to today, where I manage well over 1000 Macs. We have a less than 1% failure rate on any model.

But this is all anecdotal

 

[lewdvig]

Forgive me if this is question Im assuming you are all familiar with, but I need some direct input as sales associates at various stores are unable to help me as they don't know the products well enough.

I am a long time PC user and am in the market for a new laptop. I would say my computer knowledge is perhaps novice. I have always heard macs are a great computer, but I would like to know why they're so great compared to a PC.

Ultimately I will be using my laptop surfing, word processing, watching movies, downloading media, and perhaps some autocad, I don't play games.

I have visted the Dell website and found their XPS 15 models, and they appear to offer 2x the computer for essentially $600-$800 less.

For example:
2.2GHz Intel Quad Core, 6GB ram, 750GB Harddrive at 7200rpm, Nividia Geoforce 1GB Graphics, Blu-ray burner, JBL Speakers, 15.6" FHD B+RGLED TL 1920x1080 monitor, 2.0MP HD Cam, 9 cell battery, and microsoft office for $1568.99, OR alternatively the same model with 4gb ram, 500gb hard drive at 7200rpm, and no blu-ray for $1418.99, also possible to subtract $200 for the 2.0GHz Quadcore.

Now with the macbook pro lineup of 15" models I would for sure like a hard drive working at 7200 rpm, the 1688x1050 display, and microsoft office.

I need input as to why am I paying so much for the macbook pro? What makes it so much better than the machines I can get from Dell? Is it really worth the extra $600-$800? Do my computer needs justify such powerful machines?

Advice/comments would be greatly appreciated.

People who love macs really love them.

In the example you cite there are some things to consider.

1. construction is much better on the MBP
2. the stock screen is high quality on MBP, to get a decent contrast/brightness you need to upgrade to the 1080p on the Dell
3. battery life is better on the MBP - 7 hours is conservative real world use
4. Apple warranty is much better than Dell next day (which is an extra cost) - I have used Dell support for an Alienware M17x and Latitude both instances were really bad experiences.

Apple, go online book genius appt at store, go to store in/out in 10 min.

With Dell, spend hours on the phone to india, they will literally ask you to clean install windows for almost everything, when they finally admit that your machine is broken (in my case video cards) they send someone from an outsourced IT company that has never seen my computer and is afraid to work on it... on and on. See my (and other people's) multitude of posts on the topic at the NBR msg board.

I encourage people I care about to buy Macs.

 

[boonlar]

I worked at a large state university, Dells were king. Every model we had, during my three years as a tech there, had at least one catastrophic flaw.

I remember when it started with the Optiplex GX620. A power supply here, a power supply there. That summer we had to replace PSUs in over 100 machines. That is just one example.

Flash to today, where I manage well over 1000 Macs. We have a less than 1% failure rate on any model.

But this is all anecdotal

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

This is why. You don't see it anymore because it's been fixed. Nothing to do with Dell's quality overall because lots of companies were affected.

 

[mikeo007]

I worked at a large state university, Dells were king. Every model we had, during my three years as a tech there, had at least one catastrophic flaw.

I remember when it started with the Optiplex GX620. A power supply here, a power supply there. That summer we had to replace PSUs in over 100 machines. That is just one example.

Flash to today, where I manage well over 1000 Macs. We have a less than 1% failure rate on any model.

But this is all anecdotal

Haha, guess the uni didn't do their research? We looked at getting GX620s years ago, then realized all the problems they had after reading some different reviews. Changed our minds quickly on that one.

Back to the main topic of this thread though, and to be honest, I couldn't be bothered to sift through 4 pages of garbage to find the intelligent posts. What I am noticing though, is a surprising lack of attention to the original post. If you want to compare computer quality, go to town. But stop comparing the quality of a $400 computer to the quality of a $1000+ machine. XPS machines are well built, and so are macbook pros. A $1000+ computer from Dell or even HP is going to have way higher quality than their bargain basement models.

As a whole product line, Apple's computers are unmatched in quality. But if you compare them to just the top tier from other manufacturers, it's a whole different story. Why don't people get this? You wouldn't compare a Kia to a BMW expecting identical quality, why would you do it with computers?

 

[boonlar]

Every laptop series has faults

Macbooks have:

-Heat issues due to the thin design. They will make you sterile and burn your lap.
-High Price
-No dedicated right click for windows which will drive you crazy

Dells have:

-Crappy hinges that snap on several product lines
-Mediocre cooling
-Mediocre battery life
-Mediocre keyboards
-Thicker

 

[calderone]

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Capacitor_plague

This is why. You don't see it anymore because it's been fixed. Nothing to do with Dell's quality overall because lots of companies were affected.

Nope, these power supplies came after the capacitor plague. (Even if there was overlap, they didn't use those caps in their PSUs.)

This was but one example, we had similar failures even with newer Latitudes and Optiplexes.

I have been in this business a while, did you really think I wouldn't have considered that?