macOS 10.14 Mojave Drops Support for Many Older Machines

Discussion in 'Mac Blog Discussion' started by MacRumors, Jun 4, 2018.

  1. AdeMorgan macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Aug 29, 2018
    #376
    Rant alert: Really wish Steve Jobs was still with us because his replacement just hasn't got a clue about what joining the Apple ecosystem means to people ... I have been an IT Professional since Microsoft had con-current DOS, Novell had BNC connected systems and modems weren't even 56k ... but finally had enough and moved to Apple in 2011 after buying an iPhone and iPad mini, suddenly the tunnel had light!

    So in mid2011 I invested in a mini mac server because I had no need for a laptop or need the power for a Mac Pro, I could do all my out-of-office stuff on the iPad. That meant investing in a thunderbolt display, magic everything, airport express/time capsule and iPod hifi as by then my CD collection had been ripped for iTunes. If i needed more power than the iPad then I could always take the mini, keyboard, mouse and HDMI cable to hook up, with me.

    First the best sound box on the planet, iPOD Hifi demise - couldn't charge a iPod nano, no thought to update the docking element just drop it...1 have 4 and 4+ airport express so sound around the house since 2012...bugger me Sonos wouldn't have got a look in and now we have a Siri HomePod...oops how much biz have Apple lost out on!

    The 2012/2104 mac minis become almost un-upgradeable ... but still have more ports than most laptops!

    Then the iconic Thunderbolt Display is replaced by a PC monitor....so are MacBook users happy to spend upwards of £700 on a 4K or £1180 on a 5K? Probably not as it doesn't look or feel Apple!

    Last year they dropped the airport express, why? It will still sell as is and most 'users' don't actually need anything faster unless they're streaming 5K movies 24/7, in which case fit some Cat6, some might still want an AP with the optical airplay port and USB.

    My mini iPad is almost pristine despite the battering it's had in my board or work shorts and I semi retired so no longer need to support 2 data centres whilst in Monaco but I could do with more than 16Gb and an Apple pen rather than draw with my stubby fingers ... at the moment no mini iPad on the cards ... Samsung do you still have a Galaxy that fits my shorts ? ... so like so many others not wanting too but being forced to jump ship!!
     
  2. pam14160 macrumors newbie

    pam14160

    Joined:
    Jan 5, 2016
    Location:
    Idaho
    #377
    On my windows computer I am on the insider program, thus I am able to use the dark theme on the latest windows OS, and to say the least I really am enjoying it, and really can't wait to see what the dark theme will look like in the mac OS.
     
  3. vasim macrumors member

    vasim

    Joined:
    Mar 12, 2017
    #378
    So you don't need to be in the insider program to be able to use the windows 10 dark mode.
    I confirm that it is wonderful :)
     
  4. wacomme macrumors regular

    Joined:
    Jun 21, 2009
    #379
    OK. I have a 2011 27" iMac. What's a good upgrade? I'm wanting a laptop vs desktop.
     
  5. lfhlaw macrumors newbie

    lfhlaw

    Joined:
    Nov 1, 2014
    Location:
    Pittsburgh
    #380
    So I'm guessing for my Mac Pro 5,1...which has a Radeon GPU(HD5770 i think) in it, I will need to buy a Nvidia GPU Card which can drive 2 displays using either display port or HDMI.
     
  6. MrUNIMOG macrumors 6502

    MrUNIMOG

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    #381
    Or one of the newer AMD cards which have better support by Apple.
     
  7. AppleFan21 macrumors newbie

    AppleFan21

    Joined:
    Sep 18, 2018
    #382
    Same. I think that these iMacs should still be supported as there, in my opinion, no reason why Apple should restrict this to METAL supported Macs. As I program apps with Xcode and my Mac is considerably now dead and can no longer program apps (as Xcode needs the latest version of macOS).
     
  8. dutchyonabike macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    May 17, 2012
    #383
    They are still supporting the 2010 MacPro which shows it is possible to support older machines. And the reason for supporting the 2010 MacPro is because they know there is NO alternative. Mark
     
  9. MrUNIMOG macrumors 6502

    MrUNIMOG

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    #384
    The 2010 (or 2009, or 2012) Mac Pro is only supported if equipped with a Metal-capable GPU card.
     
  10. MeTlowe macrumors newbie

    MeTlowe

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    #385
    I am running HighSierra on an SSD via a thunderbolt enclosure on my mid-2011 imac. Works great.
     
  11. katman999 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 25, 2018
    #386
    --- Post Merged, Sep 25, 2018 ---
    Is this a joke? fu apple
     
  12. Chunk Noris macrumors newbie

    Chunk Noris

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2018
    #387
    --- Post Merged, Sep 26, 2018 ---

    What upsets me is last year my iMac late 2009 was the oldest on the list for High Sierra so i knew it would be left behind this year but i expected another year with my 2010 and at least 2 with my 2011 but now they are changing the order and just leaping forward as many years as they wish.
     
  13. MrUNIMOG macrumors 6502

    MrUNIMOG

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    #388
    They're not "just leaping forward as many years as they wish", but supporting the devices that make sense to them and seem justified.

    They're not "changing the order". They didn't drop any old Mac with High Sierra, that's where your misconception might have happened. It supported the same range of devices as Sierra did. Sierra however dropped Macs from 2007 to 2009, whereas El Capitan, Yosemite and Mavericks before dropped not a single one compared to Mountain Lion.

    So what "order" or pattern are you talking about? There isn't one.

    2012 Macs might very well be supported by several macOS releases to come. We can't know.
    --- Post Merged, Sep 27, 2018 ---
    Seriously?
     
  14. Jaime100 macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 27, 2018
    #389
    Embarrasing, a nice way to invite people to invest again in Apple buying another computer if they still want to use their updated products.

    When I buy apple products, my main driver is that they last a lot more than pcs, then for me spending 2000 Usd in a computer rather than 600 usd makes a lot of sense. But now after 6 years, your computer does not take new versions of software, the hardware replacements isnt available anymore, then makes no sense to spend 3 times the cost of a regular pc, when regular ones last easily 3/4 years with no problems.

    Sad but Im jumping out and back to Pcs where there is a market with more competition between brands and the companies are not squeezing their users and fans with the most embarrasing tecniques... :D

    On the other hand, the dark mode, its a great way to advertise when they have nothing new, This was possible with any pc back in 2005 by switching the settings..

    Cheers!

    An angry Macbook Pro user and ex-apple fan.. :D
     
  15. MrUNIMOG, Sep 27, 2018
    Last edited: Sep 27, 2018

    MrUNIMOG macrumors 6502

    MrUNIMOG

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    #390
    I honestly don't get the complaining. Mojave doesn't drop any Mac younger than 7 years... And those will continue to work as before with High Sierra and even get further security patches and Safari updates for another 2 years. That's 9 years software support total. And even then, they don't suddenly become unusable or something.

    This isn't anything new or surprising, not at all:
    While High Sierra didn't drop any model, Sierra dropped Macs between 7 and 9 years old.
    El Capitan, Yosemite and Mavericks didn't drop any,
    Mountain Lion before that dropped Macs between just 4 and 6 years old!
    Lion dropped Macs about 5 years old.
    Snow Leopard dropped PowerPC support and thus Macs between 4 and 7 years old.
    Leopard dropped Macs between 4 and 8 years old.
    Tiger dropped Macs between 5 and 7 years old.
    Panther dropped just few Macs which were 5 to 6 years old.
    Oh, and the poor very first PowerBook G3 was dropped after less than 4 years and didn't even make it to OS X...

    Despite what people like to think, Apple never does things just to f*ck with the customer.

    And by the way, are you seriously suggesting a 600 $ PC could be equivalent to a 2000 $ Mac? :rolleyes:
     
  16. Roadstar macrumors 65816

    Roadstar

    Joined:
    Sep 24, 2006
    Location:
    Vantaa, Finland
    #391
    It would be more OK if Apple really supported their older versions. They do release security updates for 2 years, but those are not guaranteed to fix all known vulnerabilities patched to the latest version. It's not too long ago when Apple decided that the rootpipe vulnerability would be too much work to fix to older versions, so only the then-current version got updated and those stuck on older versions for whatever reason were given a massive middle finger by Apple.

    So if you want to be sure that you'll get known vulnerabilities patched, you need to be running the latest macOS.
     
  17. MrUNIMOG macrumors 6502

    MrUNIMOG

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    #392
    Do you have any other examples of a vulnerability being patched only for the latest major version?

    Because with rootpipe, it really didn't matter that much since there are no Macs stuck at Mountain Lion. Anybody could just update to Mavericks, Yosemite or even El Capitan to get it fixed. That might have been the reason for Apple to not bother fixing it in Mountain Lion, who knows how hard that would have been to do.
     
  18. Blawsogis macrumors newbie

    Joined:
    Sep 26, 2017
    #393
    Not just, they have $$~very~$$~good~$$~reasons~$$ yes indeed!
     
  19. MrUNIMOG macrumors 6502

    MrUNIMOG

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    #394
    :rolleyes:
     
  20. redheeler macrumors 604

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #395
    You think a Mac with a quad-core i7, 16 GB RAM, and 512 SSD should be considered obsolete because it has "Late 2011" in the name, regardless of how capable it is?
    Apple Configurator already requires Mojave. I give Xcode another six months of High Sierra support at the most, and iWork / iLife another year of support at the most. Current versions of all these Apple apps will not run on Sierra, and would not run on El Capitan a year ago either.

    That's not to say you can't remain productive on older versions of apps. But being forced to run older versions of apps is not ideal, and you get situations like the older Xcode refusing to build and run a project on your iOS device running the latest release of iOS, complaining that it needs an update which you cannot install on an OS that is still supported with security updates.
    If you want to argue that Apple has a history of prematurely dropping support of capable hardware, I agree. My upgraded 2006 Mac Pro was running El Capitan comfortably, yet it hadn't been supported officially since prior to Mountain Lion in 2012.
     
  21. MrUNIMOG macrumors 6502

    MrUNIMOG

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    #396
    Not regardless how capable it is. It's not Metal-capable, simple as that.
    Equip a 2010 Mac Pro with a Metal-capable GPU and it's supported, officially, boom!
    Since with other Macs such an upgrade isn't possible, they're unsupported.

    Exactly, most people can remain productive with older versions of software, also most third party programs will still support an older macOS for some time.
    If you're not one of those people, e.g. because you need the latest Xcode version, that's bad for you of course but perhaps after 7 to 8 years it might just be time for a new Mac, especially if you're doing productive work on it..

    Yet people are acting as if dropping a Mac after 7 years was such a shocking, unexpected, totally new thing. Few Macs have been supported longer, and that has been in recent years only. As I said earlier, I've got a feeling that most 2012 Macs will fare very well in that regard, possibly even longer than 9 years for some models.
    As for the original Mac Pro (2006), they for sure have tested Mountain Lion on that machine and decided to not officially support it. Maybe they've deemed things unacceptable that you weren't bugged by, or they've encountered issues that you didn't run into with your use case. It's not always about raw power, for example all 2007 iMac and MacBook Pro models were still supported by Mountain Lion (and up to El Capitan) while the much more powerful 2007 8-core Mac Pro, just like your 2006 model, wasn't.

    Don't you think they try to support devices as long as they deem reasonably possible? Having people upset is certainly not what they want..
     
  22. redheeler macrumors 604

    redheeler

    Joined:
    Oct 17, 2014
    #397
    To support pre-Metal Macs would've taken little effort, as Mojave still contains an OpenGL renderer, and will even run with full acceleration on some unsupported pre-Metal Macs. See the macOS 10.14 Mojave on Unsupported Macs Thread.

    I suspect 10.15 will drop the OpenGL renderer, but giving these Macs just one more year of support would've been a big deal. Dark mode and Homekit app are features that Mac users have been anticipating since 2014.
    Someone inside Apple found an obscure bug while testing an alpha version of Mountain Lion on the '06 Mac Pro and just decided "screw this, were done with 32-bit EFI". Also, people outside Apple have found functional workarounds that a multi-billion-dollar company with full access to the source code somehow can't afford to support. Got it...
    Here's where things get interesting, as with iOS Apple has taken the correct strategy of leading the industry when it comes to older device support.

    The decision was made to support the iPhone 5s and iPhone 6 in iOS 12. The reasons for this can be guessed:
    • What Apple does with iOS tends to generate a large amount of publicity, and the iOS updates slowing down older devices was generating a publicity problem that needed to be addressed.
    • A major selling point of iPhones over Android gets strengthened, especially as upgrade cycles are getting longer and older hardware more capable.
    • A response to Samsung's ad attacking iOS 11 performance on the older iPhone 6.

    None of these reasons apply to MacOS, which generates a comparatively small amount of publicity. So, Apple's decision to drop the 2011 Macs in Mojave easily gets overshadowed by the opposite strategy taken in iOS 12. It's a cold, corporate calculation, not done in the best interest of the consumer.
     
  23. MrUNIMOG macrumors 6502

    MrUNIMOG

    Joined:
    Sep 23, 2014
    Location:
    Hamburg, Germany
    #398
    After all, none of us are inside Apple, none of us know the teams working on this.
    I doubt the reason behind iOS 12 supporting the 5s is publicity. It's just that increased performance is a key feature of iOS 12. When the iPhone 4s with iOS 9 became the first model to get 5 major releases, there wasn't much fuzz about that. And neither was there about the 3GS getting iOS 6 as its 4th major release.

    As for macOS, with Mountain Lion through El Capitan, 4 major releases in a row supported all the same machines. Without much publicity. I can't imagine that didn't take any effort...

    But, as I said, we're not inside Apple. It doesn't get better than educated guesses.
     
  24. newdeal macrumors 68020

    Joined:
    Oct 21, 2009
    #399
    Well at least 10.13 seems to be able to get message in iCloud, that is pretty much the only feature that I was looking forward to
     
  25. Marc Evans macrumors newbie

    Marc Evans

    Joined:
    Oct 11, 2018
    Location:
    USA
    #400
    I've been working in Mojave for a few weeks now, and in all likelihood, will revert to High Sierra. I'm pretty good at adapting new change, but not when I see no value in it. The App Store is hideous, and I see no value in all the "dark mode" hype. I am a big fan of the integrated approach, but I end up turning off SIP and ripping out a good number of the bloatware they throw at us and insist we install. Sometimes, its because it's simply not needed (e.g. Chess) and other times, it's because there are apps out there that do it substantively better than Apple does (LastPass and Outlook are good examples, and I really despise most things MSFT).

    The "grand vision" has gotten blurry, and the sooner Apple understands that a phone is not a tablet, a tablet is not a laptop and a laptop is not a desktop, the sooner they might quit trying to make me do things the same way on different platforms that actually work AGAINST the UX we're all trying to improve.
     

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