macOS Sierra and Later Not Listed in Mac App Store Purchased Tab, Updates Not Tied to Apple ID

[jimthing]

Just wondering as I am refuse to upgrade to High Sierra, my MacBook Air has El Capitan, how would I use the .pkg file to upgrade it to Sierra? Sorry for the stupid question, just out of the game when it comes to Apple stuff.

Read through this previous comments in the thread, where a link to details are given. It may/may not work, but do come back and advise us (especially given I guess you didn't previously download Sierra before the release of High Sierra).

 

[chrfr]

Security updates for Sierra are also no longer listed as installed updates, as if the update never happened.

There haven't been any security updates for Sierra yet aside from what was released within 10.12.1 through 10.12.6.

 

[jimthing]

There haven't been any security updates for Sierra yet aside from what was released within 10.12.1 through 10.12.6.

Just out of interest...

1) If you now used an old 10.12.1/2/3/4/5 installer, are you still be able to now update to the final 10.12.6 release? Or instead forced to go up to High Sierra?

2) If you're on 10.12.6, will Apple still be releasing security updates for it? Or has this changed too, under this new system of not being able to re-download Sierra onwards OS's?

...and nothing from Apple I can find to advise on either of course!

 

[chrfr]

Just out of interest...

1) If you now used an old 10.12.1/2/3/4/5 installer, are you still be able to now update to the final 10.12.6 release? Or instead forced to go up to High Sierra?

2) If you're on 10.12.6, will Apple still be releasing security updates for it? Or has this changed too, under this new system of not being able to re-download Sierra onwards OS's?

...and nothing from Apple I can find to advise on either of course!

You can use any Sierra installer, as long as it's not a beta installer, and update to 10.12.6. Apple's pattern in the past is to provide some security updates for the previous 2 major versions of macOS/OS X but they have never documented that. Only the most recent major version receives the most comprehensive list of security updates.
Given that we have received the Safari 11 update for 10.11.6 and 10.12.6, it's likely that Apple will provide additional security updates for those as well.

 

[jimthing]

FWIW, download from this user on another thread regarding this issue: #12

Try this, folks
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlR-tuSr1NDXguwVYGozTdMwLmrMGQ

zipped version of Install macOS Sierra

______________
Of course, how long that (or any) downloaded version will work to do a new Sierra install, is anyone's guess, due to the certificates problem.

So the issue of getting a fresh Mac App Store download of the Sierra installer, remains.

 

[chrfr]

FWIW, download from this user on another thread regarding this issue: #12


______________
Of course, how long that (or any) downloaded version will work to do a new Sierra install, is anyone's guess, due to the certificates problem.

So the issue of getting a fresh Mac App Store download of the Sierra installer, remains.

As long as the process in post 144 still works, the Installer will continue to get a current certificate. Using older installers from other sources will eventually run into problems. In those cases the fix would be to set the clock back on the computer to a date prior to the certificate's expiration.

 

[jimthing]

As long as the process in post 144 still works, the Installer will continue to get a current certificate. Using older installers from other sources will eventually run into problems. In those cases the fix would be to set the clock back on the computer to a date prior to the certificate's expiration.

"set the clock back on the computer to a date prior to the certificate's expiration": how?

 

[tywebb13]

"set the clock back on the computer to a date prior to the certificate's expiration": how?

It explains it here: https://www.macrumors.com/2016/03/03/older-os-x-installers-broken-by-certificate/

That sets the date back to 1 Feb 2016, but you can change that if appropriate.

 

[redheeler]

Mission accomplished: after installing this command-line tool, the command

mas install 1127487414​

purchased*, downloaded, and installed version 10.12.6 of

View attachment 722088​

which then verified

[jtm@socrates ~]$ codesign -dv /Applications/Install\ macOS\ Sierra.app
Executable=/Applications/Install macOS Sierra.app/Contents/MacOS/InstallAssistant_springboard
Identifier=com.apple.InstallAssistant.Sierra
Format=app bundle with Mach-O thin (x86_64)
CodeDirectory v=20200 size=321 flags=0x2200(kill,library-validation) hashes=4+3 location=embedded
Signature size=4605
Info.plist entries=30
TeamIdentifier=K36BKF7T3D
Sealed Resources version=2 rules=7 files=137
Internal requirements count=1 size=124​

and worked

View attachment 722090​

correctly.

* By which I mean, the program not only downloaded Sierra, it did so using the Apple-supplied App Store frameworks in /System/Library/PrivateFrameworks, resulting in an application bundle containing a properly-signed MAS receipt linked to my Apple ID.

I wasn't aware of this tool, thanks for sharing.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Security updates for Sierra are also no longer listed as installed updates, as if the update never happened.

Is this a LEGAL thing? Security updates for El Capitan always showed in the list. Hmm.

Nothing illegal about what Apple has done. From a customer standpoint, it is highly irritating.
[doublepost=1506732708][/doublepost]Even though I found my USB installer last night, (from last year) I tried @jasminetroll post, so that I could be sure to have the latest release. It downloaded just as if I had done it without the command tool. I suggest that when an update to Sierra comes, use the command-line tool again, (unless Apple changes course) so that you know you have a good installer with up to date cert.

Props to @jasminetroll. You helped a lot of people.

 

[jimthing]

re. post #144 – tried and worked, so thanks to said user for providing a method.

Funny thing is, that the one I downloaded a couple of hours before High Sierra was released in the MAS, and the one just now from the CLI tool have slightly differing file sizes:

GUI MAS: 5,028,626,858
CLI MAS: 5,028,626,885

Both have creation date of "Friday, 14 July 2017 at 21:58" though, so likely irrelevant.

BTW, just as in the standard MAS GUI version, it will not find Sierra on the MAS using any CLI search commands, e.g.
mas search "macOS Sierra" only displays the result 1246284741 macOS High Sierra
_____________

While this is a great get-around for those inclined to use it, it's still needless obfuscation by Apple for the average joe user, isn't it. And the zero Apple explanation is worse.

I may be wrong here, but one could guess they've not provided Sierra installer in the MAS GUI directly, because presumably one cannot run Sierra or older macOS on the new APFS?
So unless the user is knowledgeable enough to reformat their machine before then doing a clean install of any pre-High Sierra OS, they'd run into error messages. And this is not the type of thing Apple want the average joe user to have to deal with, as it'd be a bad user experience and thus make Apple look bad.

Complete guess work of course, as we have no idea on any of this, and Apple are being overly coy about it.

 

[jimthing]

Another reply from AppleCare:

Hi,

Thank you for your patience.

I just heard back from my Engineer Team and I was advised that if you already had “macOS Sierra”, on your computer, and you’re trying to reinstall it, you will need to get in touch with our Technical Support Team for assistance in reinstalling the operating system.

If you’re trying to install “macOS Sierra,” on a different computer, you will need to upgrade to “Mac OS High Sierra,” if your computer supports it as “macOS Sierra” is no longer in the Mac App Store.

With regard to “Mac OS High Sierra” no longer appearing in the purchased section, this would be the case. To install or reinstall “Mac OS High Sierra,” this will now need to be down directly from the Mac App Store.

Please don’t hesitate to reply back to my email if you have any further questions. I hope you enjoy the rest of your weekend.

Sincerely,

Angela
iTunes Store Customer Support

Senior Advisor

Completely pointless answer.

My response:

Angela,

re. "If you’re trying to install “macOS Sierra,” on a different computer, you will need to upgrade to “Mac OS High Sierra,” if your computer supports it as “macOS Sierra” is no longer in the Mac App Store."

But why? Reasons...?

Given much software cannot be used on the OS High Sierra 10.13, this leaves users on 'different computers' completely screwed. Just saying something without REASONS, and no Apple support article, is hardly acceptable on any level to customers who rely on their machines for a living.

This is made even worse(!) as even users who saved a copy from the Mac App Store of the Sierra installer before High Sierra was released on Monday, are now being met with with invalid certificates for said installers. Meaning we can't even protect ourselves from Apple's failure to provide a useable version of Sierra!


re. "With regard to “Mac OS High Sierra” no longer appearing in the purchased section, this would be the case. To install or reinstall “Mac OS High Sierra,” this will now need to be down directly from the Mac App Store."

This is entirely irrelevant – I didn't ask anything about that, I've been asking repeatedly about Sierra 10.12 re-installation not being in the Purchased section (and NOT High Sierra 10.13, which obviously is in the MAS given it's just been released!).


I strongly suggest you chase the apparent 'Engineering Team' for better more factual answers that are actually consistent with what users on the ground are currently dealing with.

Regards.

Further dumb-and-getting-dumber responses, that haven't even been checked for relevancy before being sent-on-out as a response to a customer.

 

[Bob-K]

And how does one then quit the installer after it's downloaded, and then use it on another machine/VM?

jimthing: I'm not completely sure about this, but I think you can just select "Quit installer" from the menu bar, restart the computer, and Sierra will be in your Downloads folder. It's moot at the moment, because - at least for me - installation via Recovery mode doesn't work. Every time I try - and I tried multiple times over four days - I got an error message saying the file you requested is not available, try again later.

I downloaded the installer provided by Mr_Brightside and it worked. No muss, no fuss. It installs Sierra 10.12.6 (the latest version).

It's only been a half hour, but so far everything seems fine.

Thank you, Mr_Brightside!

 

[jimthing]

FWIW, download from this user on another thread regarding this issue: #12

Try this, folks
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlR-tuSr1NDXguwVYGozTdMwLmrMGQ

zipped version of Install macOS Sierra

______________
Of course, how long that (or any) downloaded version will work to do a new Sierra install, is anyone's guess, due to the certificates problem.

So the issue of getting a fresh Mac App Store download of the Sierra installer, remains.

jimthing: I'm not completely sure about this, but I think you can just select "Quit installer" from the menu bar, restart the computer, and Sierra will be in your Downloads folder. It's moot at the moment, because - at least for me - installation via Recovery mode doesn't work. Every time I try - and I tried multiple times over four days - I got an error message saying the file you requested is not available, try again later.

I downloaded the installer provided by Mr_Brightside and it worked. No muss, no fuss. It installs Sierra 10.12.6 (the latest version).

It's only been a half hour, but so far everything seems fine.

Thank you, Mr_Brightside!

That's weird. While the "1drv.ms..." link above is active, the forum post has disappeared... MR censorship or something?


EDIT: email re. forum rules:
_____________________
jimthing,

This is a reminder from the MacRumors moderator team to avoid making posts that violate the "Warez/Serials/Cracking" section of the Forum Rules. Your post may have been removed for this reason, so please review the rules. Repeated violation of this rule can lead to loss of forum privileges, and we'd rather avoid that.

For further information and instructions, see the Reminders section of the Moderation FAQ. Do not reply to (or report) a moderation message like this one. If you have questions, comments, or complaints about moderation, use the Contact Form.

Your cooperation is appreciated.

----------------------------------------------------------------

Your post: Anyone else not seeing Sierra in their "Purchased" list in App Store?
↑
Try this, folks
https://1drv.ms/u/s!AlR-tuSr1NDXguwVYGozTdMwLmrMGQ

zipped version of Install macOS Sierra
----------------------------------------------------------------
_____________________

So there's the answer. Likely to stop malicious stuff spreading, as well as Apple owning the rights for distribution; so downloading being off-limits. PM-ing, I suggest if desperate.

 

[chokepoint]

Mission accomplished: after installing this command-line tool, the command

mas install 1127487414​

purchased*, downloaded, and installed version 10.12.6...

From what I gather, this will only work if you have previously downloaded Sierra, right?

I downloaded the installer provided by Mr_Brightside and it worked. No muss, no fuss. It installs Sierra 10.12.6 (the latest version).

It's only been a half hour, but so far everything seems fine.

Thank you, Mr_Brightside!

Will this work if you haven't previously downloaded Sierra?

Is there any way to verify that the installer is valid (either before or after installing)? And on a related note, what happened to Mr_Brightside's post in the linked thread? Thanks!

 

[Apple_Robert]

From what I gather, this will only work if you have previously downloaded Sierra, right?

Will this work if you haven't previously downloaded Sierra?

Is there any way to verify that the installer is valid (either before or after installing)? And on a related note, what happened to Mr_Brightside's post in the linked thread? Thanks!

It works. The command line tool allows you to download the file directly from Apple. The file is tied to your AppleID. You can see the certificate after the file is downloaded. It is real.

 

[chokepoint]

It works. The command line tool allows you to download the file directly from Apple. The file is tied to your AppleID. You can see the certificate after the file is downloaded. It is real.

Are you referring to the method described in Post #144 or Post #155?

If you are referring to the method described in Post #144, I believe that only works if you have previously downloaded Sierra, right? (I haven't.)

 

[jimthing]

From what I gather, this will only work if you have previously downloaded Sierra, right?

Will this work if you haven't previously downloaded Sierra?

Is there any way to verify that the installer is valid (either before or after installing)? And on a related note, what happened to Mr_Brightside's post in the linked thread? Thanks!

Just tried the first one using an Apple ID that hasn't previously downloaded the Sierra installer:

NO, the first "mas install 1127487414" will NOT work unless previously downloaded on the current Apple ID signed-in to the MAS. This error messages appears:

[doublepost=1506814940][/doublepost]Effectively, you can use a copy of the Sierra installer from ANYONE's Apple ID (one of your own Apple ID's, or someone else's), and as long as it's recent and the certificate hasn't expired (no idea when that happens, or how long before they do?), you can use it as the installer for Sierra on your machine. It shouldn't cause any issues, AFAICT...

The Apple ID here is just being used by the MAS to tell if your Apple ID account has previously downloaded the Sierra installer before. AFAIU, the actual installer has no "connection" to the Apple ID user who downloaded it. Hence you can pass the Sierra installer to a friend, and they can use it for their machine.

 

[chokepoint]

...Effectively, you can use a copy of the Sierra installer from ANYONE's Apple ID (one of your own Apple ID's, or someone else's), and as long as it's recent and the certificate hasn't expired (no idea when that happens, or how long before they do?), you can use it as the installer for Sierra on your machine. It shouldn't cause any issues, AFAICT...

The Apple ID here is just being used by the MAS to tell if your Apple ID account has previously downloaded the Sierra installer before. AFAIU, the actual installer has no "connection" to the Apple ID user who downloaded it. Hence you can pass the Sierra installer to a friend, and they can use it for their machine.

Thanks, is that what the file is from Post #155? (i.e. not requiring a previous download of Sierra)

Do I need to do anything special other than double-clicking on this installer?

Is there any way to verify that it is valid (either before or after installing)?

If I do use this installer, will I still be able to download any Sierra security updates that may get released?

Sorry for all the questions...I'm kicking myself for not upgrading to Sierra last weekend! I've been using Macs long enough to know better, too...

 

[jimthing]

Thanks, is that what the file is from Post #155? (i.e. not requiring a previous download of Sierra)

Do I need to do anything special other than double-clicking on this installer?

Is there any way to verify that it is valid (either before or after installing)?

If I do use this installer, will I still be able to download any Sierra security updates that may get released?

Sorry for all the questions...I'm kicking myself for not upgrading to Sierra last weekend! I've been using Macs long enough to know better, too...

"Thanks, is that what the file is from Post #155? (i.e. not requiring a previous download of Sierra)"
Dunno the source of that user's installer, whether it was done sometime recently or not, and by which of the several methods for download mentioned.

"Do I need to do anything special other than double-clicking on this installer?"
No, it should just work.

"Is there any way to verify that it is valid (either before or after installing)?"
If its certificate is invalid, then it'll show an error message when you try and open it.

"If I do use this installer, will I still be able to download any Sierra security updates that may get released?"
Yes. Unless Apple pull some strange thing (unlikely), they should come.

 

[Apple_Robert]

Are you referring to the method described in Post #144 or Post #155?

If you are referring to the method described in Post #144, I believe that only works if you have previously downloaded Sierra, right? (I haven't.)

Both posts offer you the installer, albeit the first required a previous download.

Thanks, is that what the file is from Post #155? (i.e. not requiring a previous download of Sierra)

Do I need to do anything special other than double-clicking on this installer?

Is there any way to verify that it is valid (either before or after installing)?

If I do use this installer, will I still be able to download any Sierra security updates that may get released?

Sorry for all the questions...I'm kicking myself for not upgrading to Sierra last weekend! I've been using Macs long enough to know better, too...

The file from #155 was from the MAS as well. You may or may not have to right click to allow open for the installer. Once installed, you would be able to receive any further updates from Apple.
[doublepost=1506818409][/doublepost]I wonder how long it will be before Apple sees that people have been downloading Sierra, and close the backdoor.

 

[Bob-K]

I used the installer from post #155. I installed it on a 2009 Mac Pro with the 4,1 to 5,1 Firmware upgrade and processors upgraded from original 2 x quad-core 2.26 GHz to 2 x 3.33 GHz hex-core. It was previously running El Capitan.

I didn't have to run any Terminal commands or give it special permission in Security and Privacy Sys Prefs.

I had previously installed Sierra on my 2012 Mac Book Pro 15" from the MAS, but Sierra didn't appear in my Purchases list, nor did it appear in my purchase history in the iTunes store. And I was unable to download the installer via Recovery mode on this machine, despite multiple tries over four days this week.

(For those who haven't read the entire thread, Apple said that starting with Sierra, OS versions will NOT appear in the MAS Purchases list, but that's not correct; some users here (and a friend of mine) DO see it there.)

In System Preferences > Privacy and Security > General > Allow apps downloaded from, I had "Anywhere" selected.

Yesterday, on my MacBook Pro, I downloaded the installer provided by another user in this thread (I had contacted him by PM). Out of curiosity, I unzipped and launched it just to test. If I recall correctly, I got the message that it was from an unidentified developer, and had to give it special permission to run, by clicking "Open anyway" (or "run anyway" or something similar) in Sys Prefs > Security and Privacy >General. After that, it seemed to run fine. I stopped before it actually started installing, though.

Today, I decided to use the installer from post #155 because it was the latest version Sierra (per "Get Info"); the other one was an earlier version.

 

[jimthing]

(For those who haven't read the entire thread, Apple said that starting with Sierra, OS versions will NOT appear in the MAS Purchases list, but that's not correct; some users here (and a friend of mine) DO see it there.)

Were they on the beta program though, for AFAIUI it's only beta program users who have a GM version in their Purchased list on the MAS?

Yesterday, on my MacBook Pro, I downloaded the installer provided by another user in this thread (I had contacted him by PM). Out of curiosity, I unzipped and launched it just to test. If I recall correctly, I got the message that it was from an unidentified developer, and had to give it special permission to run, via Security and Privacy Sys Prefs. After that, it seemed to run fine. I stopped before it actually started installing, though.

This is the same behaviour that any non-MAS software (unless the developer applies for an Apple signing certificate) gets asked to do. But weird, given:

Today, I decided to use the installer from post #155 because it was the latest version Sierra (per "Get Info"); the other one was an earlier version.

Which worked without any "permissions" issues.

 

[Bob-K]

Were they on the beta program though, for AFAIUI it's only beta program users who have a GM version in their Purchased list on the MAS?

My friend was not a beta tester. I don't know about the people here.

I don't know why the MPB didn't like that older installer. I don't know where the guys who posted these installers got them. I probably should've asked, but having cloned my system drive before running the installer, I figured I was at least somewhat safe...

 

[jimthing]

Ultimately, its time to move on here, and back to the core issues. OK, so we (currently) have ways of either obtaining ourselves or 'borrowing' from others, the Sierra installers. But main questions remain:

1) Why can users not re-download previously downloaded Sierra installers directly from the MAS (using the standard MAS GUI interface)?

---1.1) (perhaps) Why are a few non-beta users having the Sierra installer appear in their Purchased section in the MAS, while most do not?

2) Why are Apple not explaining SOMETHING to users in a clear and concise method (eg. publishing at least one support article; why HIDE the facts)?


The more technical questions remain too:

A) Are Apple going to stop the Terminal CLI tool method (or others) of installing, by disabling the MAS link?

B) How long do downloaded "12.6.03" Sierra installers last, before the certificates run out?

C) How do users of High Sierra with difficulties using Recovery Mode &/or TimeMachine backups, roll back to Sierra?
(AFAIUI, if their drive is on APFS, the user has to wipe/reformat their drive back to HFS+, then do a Sierra reinstall.)

D) How are VM users supposed to install Sierra in said VM's, if all methods dry-up?
(eg. legitimate reasons here: that of needing the older Sierra OS to run software that can only run on Sierra, and not on High Sierra; or devs ensuring backwards Sierra compatibility.)

Presumably most (all?) of these issues are to do with the new APFS in some way. Previous macOS's cannot run on it, AFAIUI. Is there any other logical explanation(s) here?