Many Retailers Hesitant About Offering Support for Apple Pay

[AliMacs]

True, but they also are able to collect and use your private information, like who you are, what you bought, when you bought it, how much you paid for each item, etc., and sell that info to advertisers.

No thanks!

What are u talking about so does all major credit cards as well. Might as well get off Facebook and social media. Your info is being tracked all the damn time

 

[heeloliver]

Erm... what?

What is ITT? And I wasn't asking about what would increase the price, I was asking if price would affect that person's staunch insistence on supporting Apple Pay.

I'm confused too. I see a lot of terminals with the whole NFC thing, and Apple says you can use Apple Pay at any of these stations.

 

[Swift]

When do merchants want anything?

The change of terminals if mandated to go chip-and-pin in 2015. Adding in an NFC chip is cheap, and it gives you all those rich iPhone weenies.

 

[Lepton]

I'm not sure that having NFC hardware is enough. I think the retailer also needs to have some software changes to deal with passing tokens to the institution and such. So I think there will be NFC terminals that don't accept Apple Pay.

 

[TRICKorDEVICE]

McDonald's owns Chipotle. How can Chipotle not be on board?

Actually they don't. Back in the day they were investors but they completely divested their interest in 2006.

That said, come on Chipotle, get on the train.

 

[Grayfox691]

It's going to happen

It's just a matter of time. I think Apple's choice to join the payments business right now is genius. Think about it with 220,000 places accepting (a drop in the bucket) apple and it's partners will have time to scale the service. Those of us who are chomping at the bit to give Apple Pay a try are just going to be one of those early adopters. Anyone get a first or second gen iPod? ;-).

The industry is shifting and with the rules changing about who is responsible for fraud all those businesses will be investing in overhauling those POS systems over the next year and change. That means suppliers offering deals and all kinds of stuff to sell as many as they can. I'd be willing to bet that a good percentage of those new systems will support NFC.

I grew up with credit cards so I never had to deal with a situation where they weren't accepted 99.99999% of everywhere. I've also never had to use one of those card imprint, sliding "cha chunk" machines before but just as those died NFC will take over.

Remember folks, It's not about who does it first. It's about who does it "right" first. If the experience is a seamless as it looks we may have a real game changer on our hands.

 

[darkslide29]

Confused:

The Best Buy where I bought my 6 case had NFC terminals. They can't deny the use of my iPhone's NFC... It's just like having a chip in the actual card. Right??

I'm confused why they are saying "no" to Pay

I know, this part is confusing me as well. I think using of the term "Apple Pay" is generating a lot of the confusion. I was at Sports Authority just the other day, and I also saw the NFC symbol.

While BestBuy has NFC terminals in their stores, the NFC portion is completely turned off.

Why? They probably planned to use NFC at some point. However, they are going to use some other app payment system instead. They hope that by not accepting NFC (Apple Pay, Google Wallet, ISIS, etc.) it will motivate their customers to go with their worse payment methid. This other method benefits them financially. I don't think it will take off, but this is what they plan to do.

This will probably confuse many, but they'll just let people know NFC isn't activated on their machines.

 

[mcdj]

american express has been around forever and isnt accepted everywhere. what makes apple think it can come in and do an exponentially better job?

More iPhones in the wild than Amex cards?

 

[teknikal90]

Yes, you are missing something. When you say, "With apple pay, vendors can then explicitly choose to accept visa, mastercard AND applepay" is incorrect. That statement makes Apple sound to be a type of credit card, when it is not.

The store just needs to accept NFC payments, the credit card module that has a symbol that looks like a sideways wifi bar signal. If they have this, they accept apple pay (as well as google wallet and whatever else uses NFC). They can't exclude Apple Pay without excluding ALL of the NFC payments out there.

I don't know where you're located, but McDonalds, for example, has these modules in probably every store in the USA. Therefore it was easy for them to say they accept apple pay. they've had these machines in their restaurants for a long time. Because they accept NFC payments, that's all that matters. They can't accept NFC while excluding Apple. It's all or nothing.

It comes down to this... These stores aren't explicitly saying no to Apple Pay. Instead, they are saying no to accepting NFC. By them calling it apple pay just goes to show how powerful apple is in entering an industry, already using their coined term for the technology.
So when Costco says no to apple pay, they're really saying no to NFC machines altogether.

In a way, Google Wallet has helped put these machines in a lot of stores. The difference for us is that Apple Pay is a more secure way of doing it. Google will keep track of where you buy to keep profiling and making advertising dollars off of you, Apple won't. Google will be using and sharing your credit card number with the store, Apple won't (since it's a one time use card number they use each time).

I'm from Canada and we've had NFC since for ever in most stores.
thats interesting then that youre saying it's an all or nothing deal. this now makes sense to me.

 

[The Doctor11]

I just really want McDonalds to implement this in their drive thru.

They said at the keynote they will and my local BK just put NFC at the windows

 

[AdonisSMU]

As of October 2015, merchants that do not offer support for EMV credit cards (cards that contain integrated circuits to prevent fraud) will assume responsibility for any fraudulent transactions that take place. Normally, banks assume liability, so it is in the best interest of retailers to deploy these new payment processing systems. EMV cards, or chip cards, are already used in many other countries around the world.

So basically it won't matter that much that not everyone is supporting it right away.

 

[teknikal90]

wayy ahead of you haha

" We've learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone," Colligan said. "PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They're not going to just walk in. "

- Ed Colligan - 11/21/2006

"We’ve learned and struggled for a few years here figuring out how to make a decent phone"(...)"PC guys are not going to just figure this out. They’re not going to just walk in."

- Palm CEO Ed Corrigan in 2006, referring to the iPhone

totally different industry.

Apple brought the modern PC into your pocket with the iPhone. Hence, as a 'PC guy' theyre built to excel in that transition.

the Apple iPhone on the other hand, isn't inherently a bank.

 

[aajeevlin]

Yes, as long as the store accepts payments with the NFC symbol, it will 100% work with your iPhone.

And this is partly the genius of it. It uses hardware that already exists out there, nothing new required. Heck, stores may even get confused at first and not even realize they accept Apple Pay since they never officially signed up.

Nice good to know, thanks for the information!

 

[John.B]

3) ZERO incentive to hop on any NFC payment system apple pay or not.

You might want to read up on EMV cards and the "liability shift" in the new credit card agreement that takes effect in October of 2015.

Erm... what?

What is ITT? And I wasn't asking about what would increase the price, I was asking if price would affect that person's staunch insistence on supporting Apple Pay.

ITT = In This Thread

See above.

 

[Roessnakhan]

You forgot to mention that Apple's implementation is far easier and more secure than any other that's been created before though.

More secure? With TouchID, definitely. Easier? I dunno, Google Wallet is fairly easy. They're probably on par.

 

[farewelwilliams]

...

 

[teknikal90]

And I have walked out on a business that doesn't take Amex. Amex customer service, including warenty service, is unmatched. When my iMacs keyboard died after 3 1/2 years Amex offered to pay for repair. When the repair cost was greater than purchasing a new one Amex told me to buy a new one and they credited my account. Do you know how many Amex employees it takes to resolve an issue? One.

You don't have to be everywhere to be preferred.

interesting. I'll have to look into this.

 

[darkslide29]

Oh I get it. It is just standard payment systems at the tills. The misinformation seems to be everyone including MacRumors calling it "Apple Pay" when in-fact it is a standard "Contactless Payment System" (NFC based).

Retailers aren't "Hesitant About Offering Support for Apple Pay", they are Hesitant About Offering Support for NFC Contactless Payments.

NFC is coming, you should all ask your banks for debit and credit cards with NFC chips on (as we have here in Canada), then start asking your stores to support it.

EXACTLY. And it's not exactly being hesitant. It's because they have a different system in mind to make them money.

Best Buy doesn't accept NFC because they have some other app based payment method they'll be wanting people to use.
Costco doesn't because they have sweetheard deals with their Amex/Debit acceptance only and don't have a need for installing NFC machines.
Etc. Etc.

To say they're hesitant makes it sound like it's some big commitment they'll have to make exclusively to Apple, or some concerns with security. That's not the case at all.

 

[V.K.]

I think all Pay articles should include a notice that say something like this quote every time to avoid the same misinformation in every forum discussion. It's not about these merchants "signing up to allow Pay, they just need to be equipped to accept NFC. Merchants on the no-list will begin to appear behind the times, simply because it will become safe to assume they are using old POS hardware.

I wonder if some merchants are saying that they don't support Pay because they are looking to strike up deals with other payment solutions to say they officially support a competitor... while actually supporting all NFC.

AFAIK this is almost but not quite correct. Visa, Mastercard and American Express have their own contactless NFC payment systems using the same NFC technology: PayPass for Mastercard, payWave for Visa and ExpressPay for AmEx. if a merchant has an NFC enabled POS terminal they can choose to support, none, any or all of these systems. It's up to them. These days Mastercard PayPass is pretty much everywhere in Canada, Visa payWave is less common and AmEx ExpressPay is practically nonexistent.

For example, Shoppers Drugmart next to my house accepts PayPass but not PayWave or ExpressPay. Both supermarkets I shop at accept both PayPass and payWave but not ExpressPay. in fact the ONLY place I've found that accepts all three is Canadian Tire.

But all that said, once a merchant accepts, say, PayPass, they will automatically accept ApplePay if you set ApplePay to use a Mastercard. Their terminal simply won't know the difference between a virtual credit card and a real one.

 

[teknikal90]

More iPhones in the wild than Amex cards?

more iphone 6s though?

 

[AdonisSMU]

While BestBuy has NFC terminals in their stores, the NFC portion is completely turned off.

Why? They probably planned to use NFC at some point. However, they are going to use some other app payment system instead. They hope that by not accepting NFC (Apple Pay, Google Wallet, ISIS, etc.) it will motivate their customers to go with their worse payment methid. This other method benefits them financially. I don't think it will take off, but this is what they plan to do.

This will probably confuse many, but they'll just let people know NFC isn't activated on their machines.

and the customers will walk out of the store upset with the goods sitting at the cash register.

 

[AliMacs]

I'm not sure that having NFC hardware is enough. I think the retailer also needs to have some software changes to deal with passing tokens to the institution and such. So I think there will be NFC terminals that don't accept Apple Pay.

Apple pay and NFC mobile payments accepted at same locations. Its not apple proprietary payment the tech used to secure is but not where its to be accepted:

Visa unveils host card emulation specification for NFC payments

By Sarah Clark Email Sarah Clark • 19 February 2014, 15:09

Visa

Visa has introduced a new standard that uses host card emulation (HCE) to enable financial institutions to securely host Visa accounts in the cloud. The standard is available now and will include support for QR codes and in-app payments in the future.

Visa’s move to support HCE includes tools and services as well as the standard:

Standards: Visa has enhanced its Visa PayWave contactless payment application and is introducing a new standard, requirements, program approval process and implementation guidelines.
Tools: Visa is also developing a software development kit (SDK) to support clients who wish to develop their own cloud-based payment applications or want to enhance their existing mobile banking applications with Visa PayWave functionality.
Services: Visa is developing a new service and platform that will enable clients and partners to issue Visa accounts digitally – in the cloud, on secure elements in smartphones, or linked to a digital wallet. This solution will also enable the issuance of payment tokens that will replace the 16-digit payment account number and can be limited for use with a specific device, payment channel or merchant.
“Visa will deploy several layers of security to protect payment accounts in the cloud, including at the Visa network, application and hardware levels,” the payments network says. “One-time use data, real-time transaction analysis, payment tokens and device fingerprinting technology make up a multi-layered defense against unauthorized account access.”

“Our clients and partners around the globe are continuously looking for flexible, cost efficient and secure ways to enable mobile payments,” says Elizabeth Buse, Visa’s executive vice president for global solutions. “The Android HCE feature provides us with a platform to evolve the Visa PayWave standard, support the development of secure, cloud-based mobile applications, while at the same time offer greater choice to our clients.”

“We introduced HCE to make it easier for developers to create NFC applications like mobile payments, loyalty programs, transit passes, and other custom services,” adds Benjamin Poiesz, Google’s Android product manager. “Visa’s move to enable NFC payments with Android devices is welcome news and will guide the way for the payments industry.”

 

[dlewis23]

Sucks about Publix. I go there almost every single day and was hoping they would be on board shortly. But they did swap all the POS systems out at the stores around me with in the past 2 years so probably don't want the cost right now.

 

[spectrumfox]

It's just a matter of time. I think Apple's choice to join the payments business right now is genius. Think about it with 220,000 places accepting (a drop in the bucket) apple and it's partners will have time to scale the service. Those of us who are chomping at the bit to give Apple Pay a try are just going to be one of those early adopters. Anyone get a first or second gen iPod? ;-).

The industry is shifting and with the rules changing about who is responsible for fraud all those businesses will be investing in overhauling those POS systems over the next year and change. That means suppliers offering deals and all kinds of stuff to sell as many as they can. I'd be willing to bet that a good percentage of those new systems will support NFC.

I grew up with credit cards so I never had to deal with a situation where they weren't accepted 99.99999% of everywhere. I've also never had to use one of those card imprint, sliding "cha chunk" machines before but just as those died NFC will take over.

Remember folks, It's not about who does it first. It's about who does it "right" first. If the experience is a seamless as it looks we may have a real game changer on our hands.

What Apple is doing is a great and will definitely make the industry take notice, but just remember, we have a long road ahead of us before NFC is accepted in as many places as credit and debit cards.

For awhile, we will need to carry both payment types.

 

[Kissaragi]

It needs to get to the point where we can use whatever we choose in any store .Just like we can choose to use a visa, master card or amex.

Bad enough just trying to work out if places take contactless or not over here.