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Massive quake hits Japan 9.0 Magnitude
- Thread starter Apple OC
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Thanks.
That just slows him down.
How about ice cubes then?
Even better, have you considered dry ice??
Thanks.
That just slows him down.
How about ice cubes then?
Even better, have you considered dry ice??
Canada could send a brigade of zambonis to help out!
The tsunami was almost a week ago. If you look at the pictures you can see that much of it has already dried. Just look at some of the photos they post. There's clothes and cloth everywhere. Occationally you see people in their resting place in sweaters and stuff like that. It was cold already before it hit. Most of the pictures they show you in the news sites are filtered, but you KNOW there are lots of bodies arround.
It's not that hard to make ice you know. There are commercial machines that work a LOT faster than your GE appliance. Ever heard of the field of Cryogenics. Although of course the roads "may" hinder carring that kind of equipment, they can also put it on barges.
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And with rolling blackouts, how is this to be achieved?
Never mind. You make my head hurt.
If you weren't just trying to be a flametard at every chance, you may have heard of this thing called a generator? whatever...
If you weren't just trying to be a flametard at every chance, you may have heard of this thing called a generator? whatever...
And if you even comprehended the level of energy being expended, you would not post such ludicrous suggestions.
Someone get this guy a plane ticket to Fukushima! It's clear he's got all the answers, out-strategizing even the sharpest minds in nuclear physics.
If you weren't just trying to be a flametard at every chance, you may have heard of this thing called a generator? whatever...
So I was watching this video on CNN - appears to be taken from inside one of the helicopters dropping water. (CH-47?) Anyhow - I understand there is a lot of things that can cause noise on a digital camera, starting with the encoding - and even vibrating / bouncing a CCD can cause noise. Helicopters are not exactly smooth, and then there's radio equipment....
So - I noticed that with each pass above the reactor - there was pixelation on the image, followed by static "zap" sounds on the mic. Maybe I'm thinking too much about that old film, and I'm searching for things like this.... But as I was about to debunk my own thought process - I noticed on subsequent passes - the video and audio noise cut in and out at nearly the exact same location each time...
It seems like they were dropping or pausing near whatever source was causing this "noise".
So - I noticed that with each pass above the reactor - there was pixelation on the image, followed by static "zap" sounds on the mic. Maybe I'm thinking too much about that old film, and I'm searching for things like this.... But as I was about to debunk my own thought process - I noticed on subsequent passes - the video and audio noise cut in and out at nearly the exact same location each time...
It seems like they were dropping or pausing near whatever source was causing this "noise".
Why don't you stop digging? You are simply compounding the crassness of your replies.
Well, I took a 2-3 day break from this thread and its incessant stupidity, only to come back and read the last two pages of even worse examples of stupidity and fear-mongering. Not even going to look any further back, because it's the same crap as earlier this week, but even more ridiculous.
Ice? Seriously? Any idea what water weighs? 7 pound per gallon. Any idea how much your bathtub weighs when it's full? Upwards of a couple thousand pounds. Think that would really just "bounce off anything like an ice cube on the sidewalk"? Any idea how much water expands when it freezes, and how much less water that means would get to the areas? I won't even go into the whole central issue of heat transfer and how it's dependent on surface area, but I'll give you a hint: a solid block of ice has literally a fraction of surface area compared to a fluid. So to use ice would mean that:
A) You have less water to work with because water expands when it freezes
B) You have drastically reduced surface area and thus heat transfer
C) It's completely stupid to drop hundreds of thousands of pounds of ice on top of a structure
D) Refrigeration cycles are extremely inefficient (Carnot cycle) and would require an absurd amount of power (generator or not) to cool thousands of tons of sea water, which is already colder than 0*C to begin with
And the comments about ravaging corpses for clothes, and that "everything's dried out"--just ridiculous, absolutely stupid. We had two nice days--Sunday and Monday, where the weather was quite warm. The next two, we had snow and rain. The past two days, it's been cold-ish, so water isn't just evaporating instantly. Nothing is dry, not at all. Everything is cold and wet, where clothing are concerned. The roads are still flooded. Even if the clothes were dry, most bodies are mangled in wreckage, and stiff, so it's not exactly like pulling a shirt off someone laying in the middle of the street.
I think too many people trivialize what the inside of these reactors etc. look like. I think half the people in this thread think it's an open swimming pool with a straight, unobstructed view to the sky above that you can just cruise right over and dunk an ice cube in it like a glass of coke. If you've taken a look at the top of the structures, where the hell would blocks of ice go? It's a complete mass of destructed material.
As is par for the course, the people who know the least, open their mouths the most.
Still no nuclear crisis, still no fatalities, still no consistently high levels of damaging radiation; a few short spikes that go beyond a CT scan, but quickly dissipating thereafter. Still not a good situation, but I maintain the same thing as last Friday night--this is not, and will not be a Chernobyl--it would've been that several days ago. This will not result in a massive exclusion zone for centuries, or even years. Any radiation that there is, will quickly dissipate, as the spikes we've seen have done. Still, the issue is cooling. Nothing more, nothing less. With a constant source of power, the issue will be contained for good. The main issue with the water drops from the copters was the fact we've had 30-40 mph winds the last couple days. The iodine pills being handed out in California like life vests make me laugh to myself.
Nobody is trying to "save" the reactors. They were written off the moment sea water started being used to cool them, and the reason sea water is being used is because the plant sits on the sea so it's an unlimited resource, it's the easiest thing to do, it's the fastest, it's the cheapest, and all of the above aside, it's not exactly cake to get supplies in and out of the area because the whole place has been leveled. If you want your answer to the desperate-appearing attempt at using sea-water, there is it. It's basically the common sense solution given that the plant is virtually inaccessible. Not to mention, for ANY chemical process design, pumps are hands-down the cheapest piece of equipment. Unrelated interesting tidbit, you know what the most expensive part of ANY chemical process design is? Piping, believe it or not. So, there you have your reasons for pumping seawater into the plant. The reasons are numerous, and logical, not "desperate".
Tokyo is fine, you'd have to be there for 83 days to get the dose of radiation found in one lousy chest X-Ray. Not even sure what the big point of focusing on Tokyo is in the media--seems to be about as close as half of the western media can get to anything though, so I guess there's your answer.
But I digress, this thread is hopeless, as are most threads.
*Exiting*
Ice? Seriously? Any idea what water weighs? 7 pound per gallon. Any idea how much your bathtub weighs when it's full? Upwards of a couple thousand pounds. Think that would really just "bounce off anything like an ice cube on the sidewalk"? Any idea how much water expands when it freezes, and how much less water that means would get to the areas? I won't even go into the whole central issue of heat transfer and how it's dependent on surface area, but I'll give you a hint: a solid block of ice has literally a fraction of surface area compared to a fluid. So to use ice would mean that:
A) You have less water to work with because water expands when it freezes
B) You have drastically reduced surface area and thus heat transfer
C) It's completely stupid to drop hundreds of thousands of pounds of ice on top of a structure
D) Refrigeration cycles are extremely inefficient (Carnot cycle) and would require an absurd amount of power (generator or not) to cool thousands of tons of sea water, which is already colder than 0*C to begin with
And the comments about ravaging corpses for clothes, and that "everything's dried out"--just ridiculous, absolutely stupid. We had two nice days--Sunday and Monday, where the weather was quite warm. The next two, we had snow and rain. The past two days, it's been cold-ish, so water isn't just evaporating instantly. Nothing is dry, not at all. Everything is cold and wet, where clothing are concerned. The roads are still flooded. Even if the clothes were dry, most bodies are mangled in wreckage, and stiff, so it's not exactly like pulling a shirt off someone laying in the middle of the street.
I think too many people trivialize what the inside of these reactors etc. look like. I think half the people in this thread think it's an open swimming pool with a straight, unobstructed view to the sky above that you can just cruise right over and dunk an ice cube in it like a glass of coke. If you've taken a look at the top of the structures, where the hell would blocks of ice go? It's a complete mass of destructed material.
As is par for the course, the people who know the least, open their mouths the most.
Still no nuclear crisis, still no fatalities, still no consistently high levels of damaging radiation; a few short spikes that go beyond a CT scan, but quickly dissipating thereafter. Still not a good situation, but I maintain the same thing as last Friday night--this is not, and will not be a Chernobyl--it would've been that several days ago. This will not result in a massive exclusion zone for centuries, or even years. Any radiation that there is, will quickly dissipate, as the spikes we've seen have done. Still, the issue is cooling. Nothing more, nothing less. With a constant source of power, the issue will be contained for good. The main issue with the water drops from the copters was the fact we've had 30-40 mph winds the last couple days. The iodine pills being handed out in California like life vests make me laugh to myself.
Nobody is trying to "save" the reactors. They were written off the moment sea water started being used to cool them, and the reason sea water is being used is because the plant sits on the sea so it's an unlimited resource, it's the easiest thing to do, it's the fastest, it's the cheapest, and all of the above aside, it's not exactly cake to get supplies in and out of the area because the whole place has been leveled. If you want your answer to the desperate-appearing attempt at using sea-water, there is it. It's basically the common sense solution given that the plant is virtually inaccessible. Not to mention, for ANY chemical process design, pumps are hands-down the cheapest piece of equipment. Unrelated interesting tidbit, you know what the most expensive part of ANY chemical process design is? Piping, believe it or not. So, there you have your reasons for pumping seawater into the plant. The reasons are numerous, and logical, not "desperate".
Tokyo is fine, you'd have to be there for 83 days to get the dose of radiation found in one lousy chest X-Ray. Not even sure what the big point of focusing on Tokyo is in the media--seems to be about as close as half of the western media can get to anything though, so I guess there's your answer.
But I digress, this thread is hopeless, as are most threads.
*Exiting*
you should be reporting this to the Japanese Government, CNN, the BBC and the NY Times ... they would love to know how you know everything is under control
You really think Tokyo is in trouble? Why?
And earlier in the week the Japanese government was SURELY covering everything up, and now I'm supposed to report to them that everything's fine, as if to suggest that they are panicking and telling everyone to get out? At what point did those on the other side of the world decide that Japanese officials had now released enough information to be deemed credible and forthcoming? Where was that inflection point where people took off their tinfoil hats, I guess I missed it.
And earlier in the week the Japanese government was SURELY covering everything up, and now I'm supposed to report to them that everything's fine, as if to suggest that they are panicking and telling everyone to get out? At what point did those on the other side of the world decide that Japanese officials had now released enough information to be deemed credible and forthcoming? Where was that inflection point where people took off their tinfoil hats, I guess I missed it.
let me sum this up for you ... until the days start improving and not getting worse ... much of the whole country of Japan is affected by the Earthquake, Tsunami, and the Nuclear Disaster.
Tokyo is also feeling the pressure of these events.
Yet somehow you feel it is ok to validate silliness by responding to it as though it deserves serious consideration.
Careful now, never know who you might end up indicting. You should just go in the back room and have a doob before you pop and drop. It's not like we are on the floor of the Diet.
Now that's a bit different tune than the insinuation that everything's out of control that you were singing above.
Of course Tokyo's feeling it, so is Kyushu. That's obvious. But that doesn't change the fact that Tokyo is safe, which is what I said.
Of course Tokyo's feeling it, so is Kyushu. That's obvious. But that doesn't change the fact that Tokyo is safe, which is what I said.
AFTER which they brought in water canons; meaning water canons must be more desperate, right?
Water must enter from the top, so it seems self-explanatory to use a helicopter...100 drops were planned but the wind was a major factor to ceasing that operation.
Water must enter from the top, so it seems self-explanatory to use a helicopter...100 drops were planned but the wind was a major factor to ceasing that operation.
Look I am not here to argue ... I see you are from Japan and I am following this story like glue. I am very concerned for the massive trauma your country is going through right now. ... I will say it again ... the whole situation has reached a level of desperation. Every country should be helping Japan right now.
Water cannon (a riot management tool) does indeed sound more desperate. The guy from the IAEA recently described the situation as a race against the clock. No one really knows for sure what will happen. Hopefully this power line in will let them get the pumping system up to speed.
Actually yes I agree. Trying to use riot control water canons to cool down a nuclear plant is clearly an act of desperation.
Look, Puma1552, ever since the start of this thread, you've been arguing that this situation is nothing to worry about, that everything is well. Since you first started saying that, there have been multiple explosions and fires and various tactics tried and failed to resolve the situation. Clearly the situation is not in control, and there is much to worry about.
It's not going to be another Chernobyl, and none of the intelligent commenters in this thread have suggested that. However, there are still many values of 'bad' below the level of Chernobyl, which still can severely affect Japan.
We all in this thread are worried about Japan and want to support it, and also want to learn from this situation to avoid it happening again. Part of that learning is analysis and discussion.
You seem so heavily invested into denying the reality of the situation that I have started wondering if you are in fact a nuclear industry worker or paid in some way to astroturf for the nuclear industry. I hope you're not, but your behaviour in this thread has raised that question.
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FYI, while I was writing the above post, Japan has now raised the nuclear alert level from 4 to 5 on the nuclear accident scale.
http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-12783832
The scale is logarithmic, so a level 5 alert is roughly 10 times more severe than a level 4 alert.
From wikipedia
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/International_Nuclear_Events_Scale
This is clearly an out of control emergency, and my hopes and thoughts are with all the people on the base who are risking their lives and future cancers, desperately attempting to bring the plant back to a stable non-hazardous condition.
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