MBA2018 screen brightness (how many nits?) - the Nitgate?

Discussion in 'MacBook Air' started by Joe Cookie, Dec 16, 2018.

  1. Joe Cookie, Dec 16, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018

    Joe Cookie macrumors member

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    Dec 16, 2018
    #1
    I live in Europe and i went to an Apple reseller (eu country, eu laws, major french retail chain, apple reseller, with dedicated staff to apple products and those classic apple desks and white walls) and bought in store the entry level macbook air 2018 (costs around 1450 USD here) last week and i started to have problems: headaches and bloody/strained eyes. I'm finishing important uni work and this is a big problem

    During my life, i had many apple products (imac, macbook pro, iphone, ipad..) and i never saw anything so dim like this. This is really dim. I compared it to my old imac 2013 and its like night and day... i'm shocked.

    As a good customer and i guess as a reasonable person, i tried to see what was happening and i called AppleCare... i spoke with 3 different Apple people (the software expert, the hardware expert and the senior manager) and they simply tried to run from the problem.

    I explained to them that i bought the computer and after one day (yes, one day...) i realized the computer was very very dark if compared with the "normal" computers from Apple.

    They told me to go to an Apple authorized center and run a hardware check. I did what they told me to do and the test said the hardware was "ok".

    I called them back and they tried to push the problem to the "Apple reseller" ("its their problem"!), but the Apple reseller says its not their problem because the Apple computer hardware test says the computer is "Ok".

    I called Apple again and i explained they are hiding the "nits" of these new macbook air computers. If you go to their website they give you the nits of the Macbook Pro, Imac, Imac Pro, Ipad Pro, etc... but they hide it when you check the info about the "new" macbook air 2018. Why?

    You can only find a reference about the macbook air nits if you use the "compare tool": it shows "300 nits".

    But when i called Apple no one could tell me the "nits" and they said "we don't have that info or that info is private info from apple".

    I can't believe what they are doing to Steve Job's company...

    Why does Apple website shows the nits when you are checking the macbook pro, imac, ipad... and hides the "nits" when it comes to the macbook air?

    And why does the Apple guys say "we don´t have that info" or "we don´t know that info".

    The "apple hardware expert" sent me an email with a link to a webpage with the specs but the "nits" info is not there !

    How can the consumer know what product is buying?

    And it gets better.... after some research, i read tech experts saying the new macbook air maxed out in tests at 234 NITS!

    The macbook pro has 500 nits, the ipad pro has 600!

    Now i have a computer, brand new computer, with 3 cycles!, my eyes are suffering and i don´t even know the official nits!

    How can i know if i have a faulty computer if i don´t have an official parameter? 300 nits? 250 nits?

    I repeat: after calling apple 4 times, and speaking with 3 different people and asking "how many nits does the macbook air 2018 has", they all said "we don't know" or "we don´t give that information".

    The hardware guy even told me that "Apple only gives the info that apple wants to give, we are not obliged to give the nits!".

    But they are! How can i know if i have a faulty computer if they dont give the parameter?

    And even more: they give that info about the macbook pro, imac or ipad!

    I don´t know what to do!

    I tried to change the calibration but its the same, during the day, with the daylight, its impossible to use this in a "normal way", the eyes suffer a lot with 234 nits or whatever!

    Anyone has any idea about what we can do about this?

    My Imac 2013 (500 nits) vs the new MBA 2018...

    photo2.jpg PHOTOapple.jpg
     
  2. revmacian, Dec 16, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018

    revmacian macrumors 6502

    revmacian

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    USA
    #2
    I have some advice:
    1. Stop comparing products to higher level products. I'm willing to bet that this problem would never have happened if you didn't compare the MBA to other computers.
    2. Realize, hopefully prior to purchase, that the MBA is not a 'pro' level machine.
    3. Stop with the '*gates'.
    4. Return a device that you're not happy with and buy something else.
     
  3. Joe Cookie, Dec 16, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018

    Joe Cookie thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 16, 2018
    #3
    I can´t return it... they don't accept it. And could you be kind enough to explain me why i can't see the nits info on the apple website under its specs?

    And by the way: i'm comparing (irl) the macbook air 2018 with an imac 2013 that i bought for less money in 2013! Its like looking at the sun (imac 2013) or at the moon (macbook air 2018).

    One advice: read my post without prejudice.

    Thanks.
     
  4. soaddk macrumors newbie

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    Mar 17, 2012
    Location:
    Aarhus, Denmark
    #4
    So. Would the number 250 give you more headache than 270?

    The Air screen is the way it is. No number is gonna change that.
     
  5. Joe Cookie, Dec 16, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018

    Joe Cookie thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 16, 2018
    #5
    Agree with you, but the problem is that when i bought it i didn't have that info and even now Apple doesn't give that info!

    Why does Apple doesn't show the nits?

    If i knew this had so low nits i would never buy it! But how could i know this? The website hides that information...

    And again: i called 4 times, and the 3 apple guys told me "we don't know the nits"!

    This is normal to you?

    1450 USD computer with no info about the nits?

    Is this what Apple has become?
     
  6. revmacian macrumors 6502

    revmacian

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    USA
    #6
    I don't know why Apple doesn't include this information, but proper research (Google, comparison videos, etc.) would have provided this information.

    Look at the specifications of the 2013 iMac, I would consider that machine to be a higher level machine than the 2018 MBA.

    Please forgive my alleged prejudice, I simply assumed that people do a few weeks of research prior to spending a lot of money on a device they are going to have to rely on for information gathering.

    Have you tried tweaking the display profiles in System Preferences > Display > Colors? I have seen that some people have done this and have been happy with the results. Try the Rec 709 profile and tweak the white balance to around 7250.
     
  7. Ploki macrumors 68040

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    Jan 21, 2008
    #7
    Frankly, you buy the computer with information available at hand.

    Why didn't you return it if its too dark, and buy a MBP instead?
    Nits doesn't matter, "it's too dark - give me my money back"

    Supposedly MBA 2018 has 300 nits, the same as the 2012 rMBP which.. i think was fine?

    I suspect this is because of the smaller battery (and footprint) than the 13" MBP.

    I don't remember reading about nits for any of my apple laptops ever... It's not something I ever cared about.

    Why don't you just return it? You should probably get away with 30 days return.
     
  8. Cehape macrumors newbie

    Cehape

    Joined:
    Nov 10, 2014
    Location:
    Germany
    #8
    The website does not hide this info and in my opinion you are just trolling here.

    Bildschirmfoto 2018-12-16 um 12.07.46.png
     
  9. Ploki macrumors 68040

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    Jan 21, 2008
    #9
    hm. Depends where you look for it apparently, it seems hidden on the DE page.
     

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  10. Joe Cookie thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 16, 2018
    #10
    No problem, please don´t get me wrong. I´m just shocked with the lack of info.

    I did change it to Rec 709 profile. Not much difference. Thanks for the kind tip.

    I just would love to know why we don´t get the official info about the nits... they give that info about the other computers...

    Like i said before, i talked to 3 different apple experts and they all told me "we don't know".

    When i asked again, they all said "we don't know or don't have that info".

    How can i check the specs when Apple doesn't give the specs?

    How can i make "previous research" if they don't give that info?

    Do you know the nits?

    Can you tell me, please, how many nits the macbook air 2018 is capable of?

    Send me, if you can, an official link or official documentation from Apple about it...

    They hide that info about macbook air on the their website.

    Thanks for your reply.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 16, 2018 ---
    They only show the NITS if you use the "compare" tool..

    The NITS are not on the product page.

    Anda again: the AppleCare guys didn't know the nits. They all said "we don't know"
    --- Post Merged, Dec 16, 2018 ---
    Reseller says the computer is OK, so they won´t accept it back.

    I tried to return it.

    Thanks.
     
  11. Cehape macrumors newbie

    Cehape

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    Nov 10, 2014
    Location:
    Germany
    #11
    You have to compare MacBooks to see this info. Even in Germany ;)
    Bildschirmfoto 2018-12-16 um 12.15.55.png
     
  12. Joe Cookie thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 16, 2018
    #12
    Yes, they only give the 300 nits info if you "compare". But if you check the imac pro, the macbook pro, the ipad... they all have the nits in their product specs.

    And again: the apple guys didnt know the nits. Spoke with 3 people from apple and they all said "we dont know the nits"

    If we don't know the nits, how can we make an informed purchase?

    Why don't they accept the computers back?

    And how can we know if the computer has a problem if with don't have the official parameter of the nits?

    How can i say its faulty w/out the official specs?
     
  13. revmacian macrumors 6502

    revmacian

    Joined:
    Oct 20, 2018
    Location:
    USA
    #13
    I didn't research the nits, I care less about numbers and more about real world experience. The first thing I do when looking at an Apple product is to go into any store and play with the machine on several visits. In between those visits I'm on the internet looking up information (google, forums, etc.) and watching youtube videos (unboxing, comparisons, negative reviews, etc.). I plan to buy the 2018 MacBook Air next month and I'm confident that this is the right machine for me.. even knowing about the screen brightness.

    When you tried the Rec 709 profile, did you manually adjust the white balance?
     
  14. Joe Cookie thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 16, 2018
    #14
    You do whatever you want, it´s up to you.

    Advice: try it out with real daylight.
     
  15. revmacian macrumors 6502

    revmacian

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    USA
    #15
    My workflow doesn't require using a $1,200.00+ Apple laptop in the sunlight.
     
  16. Ploki macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    #16
    Where are you located?
    In most of the western world, 14-day no questions asked return is your right under consumer laws and same law protects your reseller from the manufacturer.

    fwiw i can understand how a non-curtained window with direct sunlight can be too much for the 300 nits.
    --- Post Merged, Dec 16, 2018 ---
    ah.
    funny.
    on the MBP page the 500 nits is proudly plastered in the same box. :D
     
  17. Joe Cookie thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 16, 2018
    #17
    It´s not sunlight... its light coming from windows, normal windows, normal light.

    I really appreciate (...) your effort to underestimate the seriousness of my problem. Makes me wonder about your motivations when you don't even own a macbook air 2018...

    I have one, a real one.

    I have a real problem.

    I paid 1450 USD for a computer, i'm suffering from my eyes and apple doesn't tell me, after been asked about it, how many nits my computer is capable of.

    I asked 3 diff apple people.

    You said you do a lot of research before buying computers, so can you tell me how and where i can find official product specs about how many nits the new macbook air is capable of? The product webpage (not the compare tool) says zero about the nits. Unlike the macbook pro, imac, ipad.. all 500/600 nits.

    The reviews i read online say it has maxed out at 234 nits...

    I need that parameter.

    I don't even know if i have a faulty panel or not, how can i know if if don't know the parameter?

    Thanks!
    --- Post Merged, Dec 16, 2018 ---
    thanks for understanding... and it seems the macbook air cant even reach 300 nits, it seems.. read tech reviews online saying maxed out at 234.

    The 12'' macbook and the previous macbook air are brighter.. that tells you all you need to know.

    I'm speechless.
     
  18. Ploki macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    #18
    try your consumer protection laws if possible. how old is the laptop now?

    Yeah I always wondered the value of the 13" MBA compared to the 13" MBP all things considered. shaves of 0.25 LBS and has a tapered body but every other aspect is worse
     
  19. Joe Cookie thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 16, 2018
    #19
    7 days...

    Reseller says "no return" if product is "ok".

    Apple says "its reseller's problem".

    How can i know if the product is ok when they don't tell me how many nits my computer is capable of?

    How can i check the brightness functionality (if it´s faulty) when apple people say "we don't now or we don´t give that info"...

    but like you wisely said, and i thank you for that, for understanding this problem, they proudly give the specs when it comes to the macbook pro, imac pro, ipad...

    if you go to the website and check the MBA specs, its not there (only if you use the compare tool...). I wonder why.

    I'm speechless.
     
  20. Ploki macrumors 68040

    Joined:
    Jan 21, 2008
    #20
    Where are you located?

    Apple is not obliged to take a return because the contract is between you and a 3d party reseller (been there with my faulty i9), so in this case, unless you can measure the display and it doesn't push out 300nits, apple won't be able to help you.
     
  21. Joe Cookie thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 16, 2018
    #21
    I know all about the consumer laws, thanks.

    The AppleCare told me to go to an Apple Authorized Center and run a hardware check.

    I did what they told me.

    The hardware check result came out as "its ok".

    I asked about the nits, and they only said that Apple knows "the results" , computer is "ok", no "hardware" problem.

    I asked them how can i know if i have a faulty computer if i don't have the "nits parameter" and you don´t give me the details of the hardware check (they just said: "its ok, its like it is").

    I called AppleCare again and the hardware guy told me that in their database there was info about the hardware check and it was "ok".

    I asked about the "nits" and he told me "i don´t know the info about the nits".

    I asked him about the nits parameter and he said "i don´t have that info".

    This is like Kafka´s book "The trial".

    Does anyone know how many "nits" the new macbook air is capable of?

    Does anyone can link to the official specs? Not the "compare tool".

    Imagine this case: i make a test (like many did) and i get a 234 nits result. Now what? It´s faulty? Or not? What´s the parameter? How can i know?

    Yes, it´s Kafka, but at least Kafka was a great writer.

    I really don't want to go to the court because of this.

    But it seems it´s my only and last option.
     
  22. Ploki macrumors 68040

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    Jan 21, 2008
    #22
    Forget about apple, try to push the consumer law... if you have an apple authorised service provider you probably have decent consumer laws
     
  23. The Man, Dec 16, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018

    The Man macrumors 6502

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    #23
    It's not necessarily about the nits - although screen brightness of the new MacBook air isn't very bright. It's probably about Pulse-Width Modulation (PWM). Look it up. It's how certain displays regulate screen brightness. Usually it kicks in below a certain brightness threshold. Sometimes it's always on. It is a high frequency flicker (on/off pulses). If it is high enough, it won't affect most people. But if the pulse frequency is too low for you, you could get eyestrain and headaches.

    I believe iPads don't use any Pulse-Width Modulation and are best on the eyes.
     
  24. Ploki macrumors 68040

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    #24
    https://www.notebookcheck.net/Apple-MacBook-Air-2018-i5-256-GB-Laptop-Review.357481.0.html
    seems like its kinda good
     
  25. Joe Cookie, Dec 16, 2018
    Last edited: Dec 16, 2018

    Joe Cookie thread starter macrumors member

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    Dec 16, 2018
    #25

    234 nits from appleinsider and laptopmag.

    "That's not the only difference we noticed. Laptop Mag found the new MacBook Air's screen brightness is capped at 234 nits, while the 13-inch MacBook Pro averages 458 nits. Not only that, but the previous generation MacBook Air measured in at 336 nits of brightness. "

    https://appleinsider.com/articles/1...rsus-13-inch-macbook-pro-and-2017-macbook-air

    "While Apple rates the Air's panel as capable of producing 300 nits of brightness, our unit maxed out at 234 nits, which is close to the 247-nit Spectre 13 and less than the 317-nit premium-notebook average. We found brighter screens in the XPS 13 (372 nits at 1080p, 415 nits at 4K), the Surface Laptop 2 (321 nits) and the MateBook X Pro (458)."

    https://www.laptopmag.com/reviews/laptops/apple-macbook-air-2018
     

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