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The biggest problem is the high price for replacing the keyboard. If only one key isn't working you have to replace whole keyboard...absurd. If Apple will charge 100 $ for replacing the keyboard ...
 
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I returned both a 2016 and a 2017 MBPs because of the keyboard.
In the meantime, when it comes to a Mac, I'll use the older MBP (have two) and also my super trusty Air as well.

This is also matches my observations, with people generally holding onto older Mac hardware. For some it's simply a matter of economics, so switching to Windows is the only viable option, not the buy in, rather more the output. Sadly we can see exactly why Apple puts so little effort into the Mac...
Screen-Shot-2018-05-01-at-4.34.53-PM.jpg

Just 10%, expect more appliances and services L&G :(

Q-6
 
The biggest problem is the high price for replacing the keyboard. If only one key isn't working you have to replace whole keyboard...absurd. If Apple will charge 100 $ for replacing the keyboard ...
Its the price we pay for apple's desire to make the laptops non-repairable. Gone are the days of when you can just replace a component and be back up and running.
 
Its too high though, and there is no intermittent stage or chance of self repair beyond "blow air into it". To quote the article;

If Apple decides to replace the keyboard, it sends out the computer to replace the entire top case; there is no such thing as replacing an individual key or just the keyboard. On a Macbook Pro, the top case retails for $700, but the computers haven’t been around long enough for anyone to be out of warranty yet. In regular MacBooks, which were first available in the spring of 2015, Apple has quoted as much $330 to replace a top case out of warranty. The path from “a piece of dust” to “$700 repair” is terrifyingly short.
 
Getting a replacement keyboard for my 2016 MBP 13 with TB. Had some keys not working intermittently, and I was told today that the part has been ordered. I am hoping I get the 2017 version of the keyboard with the symbols on control and option keys.
 
Just want to chip in as I see this $700+ replacement keyboard thrown around quite a lot, has anyone actually paid that?

I had my keyboard/battery (And others) replaced last month, it was 2,554 RMB, which is around $400. Still not cheap but nowhere near the mythical $700 I keep seeing, and considering a battery used to be around $200 it's not that bad.

If anyone's interested, the I/O ports were 147 RMB (Don't know if that's both or each, they replaced both). And the logic board was 5,909 RMB. (Labour was 299 RMB). I'm guessing these prices will be the same worldwide or within a few bucks.
 
This is also matches my observations, with people generally holding onto older Mac hardware. For some it's simply a matter of economics, so switching to Windows is the only viable option, not the buy in, rather more the output. Sadly we can see exactly why Apple puts so little effort into the Mac...
View attachment 760706
Just 10%, expect more appliances and services L&G :(

Q-6

I wonder what the profit % per $ is for MacBooks compared to services or iPhones/iPads.

I guess the biggest driver of keeping MacBook/iMac/MacPro's etc alive is, the need for developers to create apps for people to buy on their iPhones/iPads.
 
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After reading about the new keyboards, I bought a 2015 13" MacBook Pro, 3.1 ghz, 16gb ram, 1 tb ssd on eBay. Couldn't be happier -- it's slightly heavier than the newer model, but the keyboard is miles better than my 2017 MacBook, which I tend not to use even though it's easier to carry around. The old keyboards, it seems, never break. Also, I saved quite a bit of $. The problem is Apple tried to make the new computers too thin, which helps make the new machines much more svelte than the older ones, but the price is not worth it, either in dollars or lost productivity.
 
There's so much talk about mac laptop keyboards - I'm going to predict this is foreshadowing an 'innovation' by Apple at the WWDC. Maybe they green-lighted the idea of complaining to their lickspittles in order to come across as heroes at the WWDC.

or not :)
I can already see them doubling down (or would this be tripling down?) on this poor keyboard design. Funny how all the Windows alternatives in the same segment can have regular keyboards (and iirc, a few of them are thinner than the current MBP), yet Apple seems to feel the MBP can have the keyboard that was designed for the Macbook... It was already a poor choice, and should of stayed with the Macbook and never brought to the Pro model.

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like a new MBP (and I would much rather have one vs a Windows laptop), if Apple doesn't replace the keyboard design, I'll probably be taking my money elsewhere.
 
I can already see them doubling down (or would this be tripling down?) on this poor keyboard design. Funny how all the Windows alternatives in the same segment can have regular keyboards (and iirc, a few of them are thinner than the current MBP), yet Apple seems to feel the MBP can have the keyboard that was designed for the Macbook... It was already a poor choice, and should of stayed with the Macbook and never brought to the Pro model.

Unfortunately, as much as I'd like a new MBP (and I would much rather have one vs a Windows laptop), if Apple doesn't replace the keyboard design, I'll probably be taking my money elsewhere.

They made a radical new design, a more advanced keyboard with much more stable keys and no light bleeding from the backlight. Sadly, it is not as reliable as old designs, and they need to work on that. But they don't need a redesign in terms of the tech, just to figure out how to make it reliable. If this keyboard was reliable, it would be the best keyboard I've used.

As for thinness and Windows laptops, it's not just about making the laptop thinner, it's providing more space inside the laptop for thermals and battery. So, just because a Windows laptop is just as thin but with a 'regular' keyboard does not mean it's better. It just means there is less space inside.

Again, this is a very advanced keyboard that has production issues. I'm sure their prototypes were flawless and that the design itself is good. However, making an advanced, complex product (as opposed to something more simple) means you risk having more issues, especially during mass production. I'm not justifying it, Apple should suffer the full consequences of their decisions and need to find a way to fix these problems, but this situation is a result of them trying to do something better than the regular, average keyboard one finds in these Windows laptops you mention.
 
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I can already see them doubling down (or would this be tripling down?)

Literally my least favorite part about Apple is that hyper stubborn nature.
Everyone, literally everyone, makes mistakes. Own up to it as much as makes sense, fix it and move on.

When they decided to publish that absurd "hold your laptop up at a certain angle and blow air on they keyboard" document is literally the moment when work on a new or highly tweaked design needed to begin. I hope it did.
 
I think it is the worst keyboard I have ever used. Thank god I'm rid of them. The 2017 I had is GONE! And good riddance.

Really? I'm really enjoying this keyboard. Of course, I much prefer a cherry switch mechanical keyboard but I'm sure those around me wouldn't. I went from a 2015 MacBook Air keyboard which I enjoyed to this 2017 MacBook Pro keyboard - I like the way it sounds and it has so far handled my typing very well. A lot of laptops these days are going to super thin keyboards. I try to use my Anker bluetooth keyboard as much as possible just so that I don't wear out my MacBook Pro's keyboard :p For my desktop setup it works really well. But using the MacBook in my office's meeting today worked really well.

Definitely wouldn't say this is the worst keyboard I've ever used. But I can see how some people wouldn't like it.
 
Really? I'm really enjoying this keyboard. Of course, I much prefer a cherry switch mechanical keyboard but I'm sure those around me wouldn't. I went from a 2015 MacBook Air keyboard which I enjoyed to this 2017 MacBook Pro keyboard - I like the way it sounds and it has so far handled my typing very well. A lot of laptops these days are going to super thin keyboards. I try to use my Anker bluetooth keyboard as much as possible just so that I don't wear out my MacBook Pro's keyboard :p For my desktop setup it works really well. But using the MacBook in my office's meeting today worked really well.

Definitely wouldn't say this is the worst keyboard I've ever used. But I can see how some people wouldn't like it.

Horses for courses . . .

It is the worst feeling/typing keyboard I've used. No travel, hard, loud, no feedback, more errors, etc.

And that's before they break multiple times . . .
 
They made a radical new design, a more advanced keyboard with much more stable keys and no light bleeding from the backlight. Sadly, it is not as reliable as old designs, and they need to work on that. But they don't need a redesign in terms of the tech, just to figure out how to make it reliable. If this keyboard was reliable, it would be the best keyboard I've used.

As for thinness and Windows laptops, it's not just about making the laptop thinner, it's providing more space inside the laptop for thermals and battery. So, just because a Windows laptop is just as thin but with a 'regular' keyboard does not mean it's better. It just means there is less space inside.

Again, this is a very advanced keyboard that has production issues. I'm sure their prototypes were flawless and that the design itself is good. However, making an advanced, complex product (as opposed to something more simple) means you risk having more issues, especially during mass production. I'm not justifying it, Apple should suffer the full consequences of their decisions and need to find a way to fix these problems, but this situation is a result of them trying to do something better than the regular, average keyboard one finds in these Windows laptops you mention.

Let's all say together "it was just to make it thinner" Apple did not adequately qualify the keyboard in their rush to meet sale's and marketing's release date.

Net result is a sub par keyboard that is far less reliable than any of it's predecessor's and customer's out of warranty left with substantial repair bills due to Apple's incompetence & arrogance.

Support Apple by all means, equally this is what it is, greed over true vision, profit over the customer. Likely Apple foresaw a decrease in reliability however was incapable of stopping production, equally Apple has had two years to remedy...

Apple cares about $$$$ nothing else now. It has the best spin in the business with an army of defending it, instead of challenging. Rewarding such behaviour only results in more of the same...

Q-6
 
Let's all say together "it was just to make it thinner" Apple did not adequately qualify the keyboard in their rush to meet sale's and marketing's release date.

Net result is a sub par keyboard that is far less reliable than any of it's predecessor's and customer's out of warranty left with substantial repair bills due to Apple's incompetence & arrogance.

Support Apple by all means, equally this is what it is, greed over true vision, profit over the customer. Likely Apple foresaw a decrease in reliability however was incapable of stopping production, equally Apple has had two years to remedy...

Apple cares about $$$$ nothing else now. It has the best spin in the business with an army of defending it, instead of challenging. Rewarding such behaviour only results in more of the same...

Q-6
Wow! You have literally posted some variation of this over 500 times in just the last 6 months. Really, just wow! There is a certain part of me that is genuinely impressed. I'll leave what the other part of me thinks... ;)
 
I wonder what the profit % per $ is for MacBooks compared to services or iPhones/iPads.

I guess the biggest driver of keeping MacBook/iMac/MacPro's etc alive is, the need for developers to create apps for people to buy on their iPhones/iPads.

I strongly suspect the moment IOS development can be accomplished on the likes of IPP, Apple will intensify it's disinterest in the Mac, in favor of yet more consumer appliances...

Better margins, shorter development cycles, greater user acceptance of limited life cycles, all in all more $$$$ to feed Apple's insatiable greed. ..

Q-6
[doublepost=1525838892][/doublepost]
Wow! You have literally posted some variation of this over 500 times in just the last 6 months. Really, just wow! There is a certain part of me that is genuinely impressed. I'll leave what the other part of me thinks... ;)

Try a long term Mac user who disagrees with turning productive hardware into fashionable toys...

Q-6
 
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Let's all say together "it was just to make it thinner" Apple did not adequately qualify the keyboard in their rush to meet sale's and marketing's release date.

Net result is a sub par keyboard that is far less reliable than any of it's predecessor's and customer's out of warranty left with substantial repair bills due to Apple's incompetence & arrogance.

Support Apple by all means, equally this is what it is, greed over true vision, profit over the customer. Likely Apple foresaw a decrease in reliability however was incapable of stopping production, equally Apple has had two years to remedy...

Apple cares about $$$$ nothing else now. It has the best spin in the business with an army of defending it, instead of challenging. Rewarding such behaviour only results in more of the same...

Q-6

You're claiming the same things over and over, but this is just your viewpoint, and I think you're grossly oversimplifying some things and flat out wrong on others.

They certainly didn't rush with this laptop, it was years in development and the keyboard itself is a second revision of a keyboard that was already in development for a while. The quality of every other component on the laptop, and the complexity of certain elements, including the full launch-day support for the Touch Bar in all Apple apps shows that this laptop was not rushed to market. The issues that arose have nothing to do with rushing or cheaping out, but with failures in the production pipeline and Apple's overconfidence in its abilities.

Also, show me a global tech (or any other) company that doesn't primarily care about $$$$. Yes, this is a profit driven world and HP, Lenovo, Dell, Microsoft, Google, Amazon, etc. - including Apple, yes - care about $$$$ and nothing else. How they earn that $$$$ is different, though, and Apple's main profit strategy is its brand and quality perception. Thinking they don't care about all of this is wrong.

Also, I don't think anyone is actually supporting Apple here, it's not like we're stakeholders or anything - but I am starting to believe you're looking at all this as one big conflict of opposing sides. It's not.
[doublepost=1525847891][/doublepost]
I strongly suspect the moment IOS development can be accomplished on the likes of IPP, Apple will intensify it's disinterest in the Mac, in favor of yet more consumer appliances...

Better margins, shorter development cycles, greater user acceptance of limited life cycles, all in all more $$$$ to feed Apple's insatiable greed. ..

Q-6

Just the word "greed" shows me how you're giving human attributes to a company. Don't tell me you think other manufacturers are altruistic in nature or motivated by betterment of professionals?

Apple is just as profit driven as any other company. The fact that - motivated by this profit - they made quality, equality and environmental awareness an essential part of their brand and business practices, puts them above a lot of other US companies, tbh. But find me a company that is not "greedy".

Also, a Mac is no more a "consumer appliance" than any Surface product. It's just the way of the times, man.
[doublepost=1525848181][/doublepost]
Try a long term Mac user who disagrees with turning productive hardware into fashionable toys...

Q-6

As a long time Mac user, I'm sure you're aware how, historically, the claims you make today have been made by critics every year, for the past two decades.
 
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I have a problem with my Macbook pro 2017 keyboard: the "N" key doesn't work properly.
I was thinking to bring it to the assistance, but I'm waiting the release of the new version, hoping that if they replace it (it is still in warranty), I will have the new one.
Anyone has already returned it? Do they replace it if it's in warranty or they repair it?
 
I have a problem with my Macbook pro 2017 keyboard: the "N" key doesn't work properly.
I was thinking to bring it to the assistance, but I'm waiting the release of the new version, hoping that if they replace it (it is still in warranty), I will have the new one.
Anyone has already returned it? Do they replace it if it's in warranty or they repair it?

They repair it
 
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