Miami building collapsed.

[sgtaylor5]

The remaining building fell away from the existing pile enough that it gave the rescuers more ways to see inside. Heavier equipment brought in for faster excavation.

 

[44267547]

The remaining building fell away from the existing pile enough that it gave the rescuers more ways to see inside. Heavier equipment brought in for faster excavation.

Well, I guess you didn’t mention the reason why that was though. That’s because they had to start making more progress on the building excavation due to inclement weather, which was widely reported that if there was any possible survivors, they wanted to make headway before they were delayed with storms.

 

[sgtaylor5]

Well, I guess you didn’t mention the reason why that was though. That’s because they had to start making more progress on the building excavation due to inclement weather, which was widely reported that if there was any possible survivors, they wanted to make headway before they were delayed with storms.

Thank you for the clarification.

 

[rhett7660]

I am still curious if there will be any one held liable in the legal sense and if so who? I am not to familiar with condo's and the laws that govern them, but I am curious, since each unit is owned, is there a master owner of the building or does it fall on the association etc?

 

[Macky-Mac]

Yes and it fell down just the way they wanted it to. It made me want to watch more demolition videos. I wished and hoped they would’ve been able to extract some of the remaining alive or their bodies and have the residents of the remaining portion able to get their belongings.

While the residents of the still standing part of the building weren't allowed in, I read somewhere that the city did have a team going thru the units and quickly grabbing potentially important stuff......but there were no details in the article as to how the effort was organized or exactly what was being collected.

 

[Macky-Mac]

... since each unit is owned, is there a master owner of the building or does it fall on the association etc?

State laws vary, but typically each of the owners of the individual condo units also have a share in the ownership of the common elements, which includes the building structure, pool, parking, etc.

They also are the owners of the association, which is a legal entity set up to maintain and operate the building and amenities......and when something goes wrong, everybody sues everybody!

 

[Clix Pix]

Yes. I live in a condominium complex in the Northern Virginia suburbs of Washington, DC, and while I own my individual unit and am responsible for maintaining it on the interior (replacing appliances, HVAC, whatever, as needed, painting and whatnot), I also am responsible as one of the owners of our 114 units and 14 buildings with common grounds areas, parking lot, clubhouse and such, for contributing to the costs of upkeep and maintenance of those as well. For instance, if the parking lot needs to be repaved, the dues which we pay monthly to our condominium homeowners' association are a part of that. Ditto when it is time for the buildings to be repainted (they are brick and wood). Maintenance of the community pool, which last year required some repair work which was done just prior to the onset of COVID-19, was done. Then, of course as it happened we weren't able to use the pool all that season anyway thanks to the Pandemic, so we saved some money on lifeguard salary and other fees, which worked out well in the long run, although it was frustrating not being able to take a swim last summer!

Our condo management association and our condo board of directors seem to be pretty fiscally responsible and are mindful of what can happen if things are neglected and repairs not done in a timely fashion, or if something unexpected suddenly occurs, such as a plumbing line rupture or some such. We pay a fairly hefty monthly condo fee, which includes landscaping, snow removal, trash removal, recycling removal, bulk items removal, gutter cleanup and leaf cleanup, pool maintenance throughout the season and of course also the rest of the year, general maintenance of the property as a whole, water and sewer usage, etc., etc. A portion of each month's condo fee payment also goes right into our Reserves, that all-important fund to help deal with emergency and unexpected situations.

Each homeowner is also expected to have homeowners' insurance and as part of our condo fees we also are paying for the overall property insurance as well. I'm not sure but I would assume that if one of our buildings -- Gawd forbid! -- were to come crashing down or burned to the ground for whatever reason(s) that this would be the responsibility of the overall property insurance rather than any one homeowner, but that everyone who owned a unit in that building would be covered by their homeowners' insurance policy in addition for personal property within their unit, etc.

 

[Madhatter32]

I am still curious if there will be any one held liable in the legal sense and if so who? I am not to familiar with condo's and the laws that govern them, but I am curious, since each unit is owned, is there a master owner of the building or does it fall on the association etc?

The unit owners should be compensated through the master insurance, which would cover their percentage interest of the building loss (i.e., for their particular unit) but not for personal possessions, furnishings or other contents of the dwelling. If the particular unit owners also carry condo insurance that should cover their personal possessions and dwelling contents.

In terms of negligence or wrongful death -- I do not think they will have much luck seeking compensation because they need to find a party to hold responsible. The building was 40 years old so they builder probably does not even exist and this case looks to be more of a building maintenance neglect issue rather than a typical building defect type of issue. They likely cannot sue the government for lack of oversight either unless some fraud occurred somewhere in the process. They can try to sue the condo association but that is akin to just trying to sue themselves so that is unlikely to bear fruit either.

 

[rhett7660]

The unit owners should be compensated through the master insurance, which would cover their percentage interest of the building loss (i.e., for their particular unit) but not for personal possessions, furnishings or other contents of the dwelling. If the particular unit owners also carry condo insurance that should cover their personal possessions and dwelling contents.

In terms of negligence or wrongful death -- I do not think they will have much luck seeking compensation because they need to find a party to hold responsible. The building was 40 years old so they builder probably does not even exist and this case looks to be more of a building maintenance neglect issue rather than a typical building defect type of issue. They likely cannot sue the government for lack of oversight either unless some fraud occurred somewhere in the process. They can try to sue the condo association but that is akin to just trying to sue themselves so that is unlikely to bear fruit either.

Thank you... I knew about the association and the insurance, but I doubt they had enough in the insurance pot to pay for what might come about this.

Thanks again.

 

[thekev]

I wonder why the building owner didn't fix these problems like ten-plus years ago.

Many blocks of condos are owned and managed by the residents. Generally they have an HOA board. For something involving a huge structural repair, normal HOA fees won't cut it. It would require something like a special assessment, where everyone has to pay a very large one time sum. Alternatively, they could take out a construction loan and drastically raise HOA fees, but an assessment is more likely. If someone can't pay, that fee is going to be assessed on any sale of the unit.

You can imagine this would piss a lot of people off, as any such fix would have presumably cost many millions after permits, planning, and work is complete. I'm unsure what guarantees are offered on such work, given the difficulty of predicting its future.

There's some reporting on this here. Some of the comments from residents suggest that some of the work that was to be done sounded more aesthetic than anything. I'm not sure whether that was the case or maybe just a poor description in the assessment letter. The cost was pretty steep though.

Condo owners in Surfside building were facing assessments for $15 million worth of repairs

Condo owners in the South Florida tower that collapsed last week were facing assessments for millions of dollars worth of repairs -- with payments set to begin a week after the building's deadly fall.

www.cnn.com

The Champlain Towers South condo association approved a $15 million assessment in April to complete repairs required under the county's 40-year recertification process, according to documents obtained by CNN.
The documents show that more than two years after association members received a report about "major structural damage" in the building, they began the assessment process to pay for necessary repairs.
Owners would have to pay assessments ranging from $80,190 for one-bedroom units to $336,135 for the owner of the building's four-bedroom penthouse, a document sent to the building's residents said. The deadline to pay upfront or choose paying a monthly fee lasting 15 years was July 1.

 

[Herdfan]

What a tragic situation. I purchased a condo a few years ago, lived in it for three years and then sold it. Never again. Too much conflict between the management company and owners, between various owners, between resident owners and renters etc. Some owners wanted to spend lavishly, some didn't want to spend 5 cents and on and on.

We have a similar situation in our neighborhood. We have an HOA, but it isn't the problem. We have 2 types of homeowner's: those who will want to sell their home at some point in the future and would like to get their money out and those who are older and don't care about the value as long as they can live in it.

So getting the roads fixed has become a huge PITA.