Michael Jackson - Dead at 50 (Cardiac Arrest)

[Ivan P]

Michael Jackson is dead???

I know! When the hell did this happen?!!

 

[opinioncircle]

For the record he may have not been the biological father but according to California law he was taking care of the children since birth so he is the father.

Well I didn't know that. But honestly, who cares about that? Shouldn't we remember the great entertainer he was and not the flawed human being? I mean not to sound too much naive, but I feel that like Elvis, like Monroe, like Wayne, we should focus on how they changed the industry they worked in.

 

[rdowns]

This crap will go on for another week or two and then rev up again when the final autopsy reports become available. This is pure gold for the media, the ultimate freak reality show played out on the evening news (and everywhere else).

Full article

Let's face it, if you're into train wrecks, it doesn't get much better than this. In the age of reality television, this is the ultimate real-life family freak show. Welcome to The Dead King of Bel Air. The life and death of Michael Jackson is a deliciously perfect blend of The Swan, Wife Swap, The Bachelor, American Idol, Celebrity Rehab, Survivor, Cops and The Surreal Life. And I'm ****ing hooked.

There's one helluva ensemble cast in this sideshow. We have Papa Joe Jackson, the verbally and physically abusive patriarch who mourned his son's death by immediately basking in the limelight of the BET Awards while practically hawking T-shirts from his trunk. There's sister Janet, who also chose the BET stage to share her pain. There's brother Jermaine, whose healing process required a little Neverland facetime with Lauer . There's also Diana Ross, who likely is about as surprised to learn she's the children's back-up guardian as I would be if I was in the will. (By the way, if something happens to me I think I'd like Joni Mitchell to raise my young daughter. Joni's mature, mellow, sings great and probably has a mad-cool house in Laurel Canyon. Nah, that's a dumb idea. Better stick with the existing plan).

We also have the shameless, attention-starved, sycophantic, blood-sucking media-whore leeches Al Sharpton and Jesse Jackson, who've been about as ubiquitous as Gov. Mark Sanford's love life this past week. Rumor has it that the Dynamic Duo of Dogma are fighting over who gets to eulogize MJ who, a week after his death, is still not buried. I guess when the family's too busy attending awards shows and giving Neverland tours that leaves little time for funerals. Apparently, they can't find the proper place for Michael's grand send-off. Seems like the Rose Bowl, Staples Center and Dodger Stadium are all booked. May I suggest a quaint little church in the Valley perhaps? One large enough to accommodate family and close friends? Ya know, the way other people do it? This is supposed to be a funeral, not a ****ing Jackson Reunion Tour. How about just putting the man in the ground with some dignity already?

 

[AppleMark]

I certainly consider him a rhythmical genius. He was one of those people who have rhythm hardwired from the brain to every part of his body. A living beatbox. But I generally reserve "musical" for the more tonal aspects of music, and IMO his singing and his melodies were not exceptional in any way.

If a singer fakes singing then we should pay them in monopoly money when we go to that concert it's a fair wage right? I mean I don't get paid for acting like I'm working.

I understand what you are saying from a technical point of view in regards to vocals. However people also go to a concert, to see a performance or ‘Show’ with all the bells and whistles. There are times when this cannot be realistically achieved without a little ‘cheating’. There are some singers / bands, who should not sing live and I would rather they did lip sync.

Mj was a ‘Showman’, so maybe it is a little harsh to criticise MJ purely on his vocals whether live or not, as he doing what he was ALSO paid to do.

Which was to entertain and perform and he did that well if my memory serves me right.

 

[AppleMark]

Generally, poor people who get filthy rich are the worst cases, it's like they're messing with the laws of nature and being punished accordingly. They remind me of Baldrick on the comedy series Blackadder. He had a soft spot for turnips. One day he happened to come across a hefty sum of money, and instead of investing them wisely in order to make a life for himself he ran out and bought the world's biggest turnip the size of a VW beetle.

Not sure about equating poor people getting rich to messing with the “laws of nature”.

Your example of Baldrick is flawed, as he was not only poor, he was an idiot, he was uneducated and from ‘low-born class’.

I just thought it was funny because it was classic Jacksons and their combination of no education, too much money and a foolish belief that they can buy anything.

Your earlier post alluded to the Jackson’s having no education and too much money.

Just wondering why the seemingly elitist view point on wealth? I have met plenty of educated and very reasonably well off people, who have failed in their business because they overestimated the level of their success and taken a firm beating in the pocket.

Perhaps you are referring to a perceived level of class, which is different to an individual’s education, financial status and their ability to manage it?

 

[Ttownbeast]

I understand what you are saying from a technical point of view in regards to vocals. However people also go to a concert, to see a performance or ‘Show’ with all the bells and whistles. There are times when this cannot be realistically achieved without a little ‘cheating’. There are some singers / bands, who should not sing live and I would rather they did lip sync.

Mj was a ‘Showman’, so maybe it is a little harsh to criticise MJ purely on his vocals whether live or not, as he doing what he was ALSO paid to do.

Which was to entertain and perform and he did that well if my memory serves me right.

Yah I've been to 2 Alice Cooper concerts he puts on a great performance on stage, but you know something he actually sings when he is putting on a stage show Alice Cooper is a true showman. Don't make the claim the you are a singer/showman if you don't go up on stage to sing. And MJ is paid by the fans the fans had the expectation that he would sing bad or not. I'll give a few more examples Milli Vanilli sold themselves as singers--turns out they were total ******** and in fact never sang a single thing. Metallica occasionally horrible live and *******s when it comes to business but admirable for the fact that even though some live concerts sounded terrible it was genuine and as businessmen gave the fans what they paid for, Axl rose from GnR horrible businesman, great artist would not do a show if he didn't feel like singing fans have come to expect that of him he is a total ass but he has standards as an artist. Lip syncing is only standard in the Pop genre where most (I do not say all mind you) supposed showmen and artist of that specific genre rely more upon controversy and looks than they do actual talent. No good rappers go on stage and lip sync, no good opera singers go up on stage and lip sync, no good rock singers do that, no good country singers do that, the phenomenon is purely the invention of the retarded cousin to any real music called POP

 

[Anuba]

Mj was a ‘Showman’, so maybe it is a little harsh to criticise MJ purely on his vocals whether live or not, as he doing what he was ALSO paid to do.

Which was to entertain and perform and he did that well if my memory serves me right.

I just watched an old gig from 1992 (MJ live in Bucharest) and there was actually more live singing going on than expected. Probably upwards of 50%. The opening number is lipsynched, the two following songs are live, it goes back and forth like that. Initially there's a huge quality drop when the live singing starts, but it picks up after a few songs. I thought he would use pre-recorded vocals on the big dance numbers and sing live on songs that are less demanding physically, but it's not as easy as that... he sings live on Billie Jean but lipsyncs on Man in the Mirror.

 

[AppleMark]

I just watched an old gig from 1992 (MJ live in Bucharest) and there was actually more live singing going on than expected. Probably upwards of 50%. The opening number is lipsynched, the two following songs are live, it goes back and forth like that. Initially there's a huge quality drop when the live singing starts, but it picks up after a few songs. I thought he would use pre-recorded vocals on the big dance numbers and sing live on songs that are less demanding physically, but it's not as easy as that... he sings live on Billie Jean but lipsyncs on Man in the Mirror.

Very interesting. I would have assumed the same thing, perhaps he was attempting to hide flaws in his live voice, by expecting everybody to say 'well, it was not as good as the CD, but then he was dancing all the while'.

If he could not sing Man in the Mirror live, maybe he only had a good recording voice later on in his career? Anybody heard this one live?

Maybe they will do an MJ celebrity edition of 'Crossing Over' and get John Edwards to ask him why he did that

 

[AppleMark]

Yah I've been to 2 Alice Cooper concerts he puts on a great performance on stage, but you know something he actually sings when he is putting on a stage show Alice Cooper is a true showman. Don't make the claim the you are a singer/showman if you don't go up on stage to sing. And MJ is paid by the fans the fans had the expectation that he would sing bad or not. I'll give a few more examples Milli Vanilli sold themselves as singers--turns out they were total ******** and in fact never sang a single thing. Metallica occasionally horrible live and *******s when it comes to business but admirable for the fact that even though some live concerts sounded terrible it was genuine and as businessmen gave the fans what they paid for, Axl rose from GnR horrible businesman, great artist would not do a show if he didn't feel like singing fans have come to expect that of him he is a total ass but he has standards as an artist. Lip syncing is only standard in the Pop genre where most (I do not say all mind you) supposed showmen and artist of that specific genre rely more upon controversy and looks than they do actual talent. No good rappers go on stage and lip sync, no good opera singers go up on stage and lip sync, no good rock singers do that, no good country singers do that, the phenomenon is purely the invention of the retarded cousin to any real music called POP

Yes, but you are missing my point.

MJ never said he was the best singer in the world and I do not think he has been acclaimed as such.

MJ was a Pop artist in the end, not a Rock artist or Rap artist. I would argue that rock music is usually very similar live, verses recorded, in as much as the music and singing uses a more conventional approach to its expected genre. Most Rap is not singing to any real standard even at its best, unless they collaborate with a ‘Real’ Singer. I heard Eminem sing live on a UK chat show a couple of weeks ago with his ‘Hype man’ and it sounded rough. It took a minute to work out which song he was singing/Rapping to.

How often do you listen to Iron Maiden or DMX and have a Simon Cowell like appreciation of these songs Pitch and melodic range?

However Pop is a different beast altogether. You only have to listen to the top 40 to know that many Pop songs are over manufactured to the point that you know that a live rendition would be excruciating. I was unfortunate enough to hear Lady Ga Ga singing live at an awards ceremony recently. At least Britney Spears has the good sense to lip sync (however badly) all of the time!

I am not saying it is right that they should lip sync, but if you are a fan (or not in your case) of manufactured pop music, you should expect it to happen or be disappointed. I also have more respect for an artist who knows their limitations to not strangle their own songs live.

At the end of the day what people think of an artist is measured by CD sales, ticket sales, merchandising etc. and not what my opinions are.

On that basis alone, you have to concede that the general consensus is that Mj did give value for money, even as a ‘fake’. Some people are even getting suckered into keeping the ticket they paid £70 and upwards for as a souvenir / keep sake, for a show that can never happen.

So perhaps he is that good a Showman / businessman after all.

Even in death….

 

[Ttownbeast]

Yes, but you are missing my point.

MJ never said he was the best singer in the world and I do not think he has been acclaimed as such.

MJ was a Pop artist in the end, not a Rock artist or Rap artist. I would argue that rock music is usually very similar live, verses recorded, in as much as the music and singing uses a more conventional approach to its expected genre. Most Rap is not singing to any real standard even at its best, unless they collaborate with a ‘Real’ Singer. I heard Eminem sing live on a UK chat show a couple of weeks ago with his ‘Hype man’ and it sounded rough. It took a minute to work out which song he was singing/Rapping to.

How often do you listen to Iron Maiden or DMX and have a Simon Cowell like appreciation of these songs Pitch and melodic range?

However Pop is a different beast altogether. You only have to listen to the top 40 to know that many Pop songs are over manufactured to the point that you know that a live rendition would be excruciating. I was unfortunate enough to hear Lady Ga Ga singing live at an awards ceremony recently. At least Britney Spears has the good sense to lip sync (however badly) all of the time!

I am not saying it is right that they should lip sync, but if you are a fan (or not in your case) of manufactured pop music, you should expect it to happen or be disappointed. I also have more respect for an artist who knows their limitations to not strangle their own songs live.

At the end of the day what people think of an artist is measured by CD sales, ticket sales, merchandising etc. and not what my opinions are.

On that basis alone, you have to concede that the general consensus is that Mj did give value for money, even as a ‘fake’. Some people are even getting suckered into keeping the ticket they paid £70 and upwards for as a souvenir / keep sake, for a show that can never happen.

So perhaps he is that good a Showman / businessman after all.

Even in death….

I never said he was a bad businessman he could outdo Don King when it came to selling the hype, but he was no showman. On that basis I don't have to concede to **** just because **** sells, the only thing that I'll concede to is that people are stupid on average.

 

[jaw04005]

What hasn't really been picked up by the media yet is Oprah Winfrey has not made a statement about Jackson's death. After all, she did a rare interview with him from Neverland in 1993.

Of course, it's well known that Oprah herself was a victim of child molestation. Not sure if that's why she hasn't made a statement, but interesting nevertheless.

 

[giffut]

Come ...

... on, people, calm down on him. He was a beast of a musician, and except for the Pope and Khomenei (unconfirmed) almost anyone on earth crawling rhythmically liked him very much.

Did any of you badmouthers dare to watch some of the interview shootings with him in his private surroundings, like a short video interview snippet on Neverland shooted around 1989 - he behaves shy to the point of strange disturbance all around. You can grab his need and longing for some kind of normality he no longer possesed, due to his completely nutted family and being in music business straight from the cradle. And he used his wealth to recreate what he thought of being good to him and others. He obviously failed, as you can´t buy back lost childhood (which mostly reads: real and unconditioned love by his parents). His personal reality of comfort needed to be created, as all of reality was commercialised to the bone by his family.

And he certainly couldn´t escape this even after death. That´s what makes me sad the most. By the way: Any superstars, except for Bruce Springsteen I guess, goes belly up in his mind; and that certainly counts for something I don´t want to be part of. I am so grateful for me being unknown, although I wished for some more respect for my personal guitar tickling ;-).

He was a Genius, a Freak, a Lonely person - oh, we alle are, we just lack the proper audience, fortunately - or not, who knows.

And in death, we all grow the same again - missed by the loved ones, beaten by the bad, but gone: Time for memories, feelings - and he gave plenty of them, just watch his concert footages. For beginners I recommend the "Victory" tour 1984: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r_pSfC-mlTQ (an unknown midaged woman quoted "I wished I could be the white left hand glove ... that´s all I wished for"). And the intro to the 1992 Bucharest concert: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UaDlfODoaEE

PS

By the way: He was cleared by the court regarding child molestation. And despite the settlement, the "victim" boy already has spoken out that all of this was a money grabbing plot by his parents. He did speak it right after the "pronounced dead" sensation, which itself shows you quite clearly the basis of all of those accusations: paycheck production.

 

[AppleMark]

I never said he was a bad businessman he could outdo Don King when it came to selling the hype, but he was no showman. On that basis I don't have to concede to **** just because **** sells, the only thing that I'll concede to is that people are stupid on average.

To say that MJ was not a Showman shows that you know nought about nought.

It is ignorant to label people as “Stupid” simply because they like a different genre of music than you do.

Also people who rely heavily on the over use of asterisks ‘**** , **** & more ****’ as you do, to prop up weak arguments, are clearly bereft of the ability or intellect to debate any issue reasonably and is usually a good sign that they are beat.

Did you see all those "Stupid" people turn out for the MJ memorial today?

Try Googling MJ & Showman……….

 

[nutmac]

What hasn't really been picked up by the media yet is Oprah Winfrey has not made a statement about Jackson's death. After all, she did a rare interview with him from Neverland in 1993.

Why should anyone care what Oprah says about Michael Jackson? Or just about anyone else for that matter?

His daughter speaking at today's memorial, with simple short words: "I just want to say ever since I was born, Daddy has been the best father you can ever imagine. And I just want to say I love him so much."

 

[MRU]

Why should anyone care what Oprah says about Michael Jackson? Or just about anyone else for that matter?

His daughter speaking at today's memorial, with simple short words: "I just want to say ever since I was born, Daddy has been the best father you can ever imagine. And I just want to say I love him so much."

Through-out this it was his children I felt the most empathy towards, and whilst a part of me felt hideously uncomfortable with the idea of putting the three children on 'show', Paris's words were indeed touching.


Though I must add reluctantly, the two boy's (prince I & II) chewing gum very nonchalantly, seemingly oblivious or unmoved, to what was going on in front of them - was extremely disconcerting.


Still overall a nice tribute.


edit: 1920x1200 wallpaper I put together c/o 'google images' as a tribute......

 

[Abstract]

I just watched this video of MJ doing a live performance of 'Dangerous'.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=aXK5xOJaYHI&feature=related



Just incredible. Nobody today comes close, no matter how many moves Usher steals, or how many hats Timberlake makes popular again. We really lost something special last week, didn't we.

 

[gkarris]

I think the artists that performed did a great job.

It was a great Memorial Service for someone so influential in Entertainment.

(I grew up with the Jackson Five... and watched MJ's "World Premier Thriller Video" first shown anywhere on the "new" MTV...)

 

[chhhrrriiisss]

I watched tonight and I thought it was great. I feel terrible for them and their loss. I never realized how many of his songs I knew from growing up.

His daughter's few words were heartbreaking.

 

[IBradMac]

Very disheartening indeed..

 

[Music_Producer]

I just watched an old gig from 1992 (MJ live in Bucharest) and there was actually more live singing going on than expected. Probably upwards of 50%. The opening number is lipsynched, the two following songs are live, it goes back and forth like that. Initially there's a huge quality drop when the live singing starts, but it picks up after a few songs. I thought he would use pre-recorded vocals on the big dance numbers and sing live on songs that are less demanding physically, but it's not as easy as that... he sings live on Billie Jean but lipsyncs on Man in the Mirror.

Like I said earlier.. the HIStory concert that I went to - he was singing live the entire time. Even when he would jump around his pitch would go a little up and down (like you mentioned with the 'aaaaaeeeeaaa' example )

It depends on how you're feeling - if you're doing a frikkin global tour with shows every 2-3 days and it's extremely strenuous, then one might do a lip sync on the vocally taxing numbers. He didn't just have to sing - he had to perform like a maniac as well.

You consider him a rhythmic genius.. well music *is* mostly rhythm - although he is a genius in many ways - most of his songs are written, composed and produced by him (with other co-producers.. you can't do everything, well most of the stuff yourself)

And when it came to performing - geez, he could stand still for 5 minutes and everyone would scream non-stop (yes, I'm embarassed enough to admit that when I went for the concert I told myself I wouldn't scream or do anything stupid - guess what.. I screamed and lost my voice in the first 5 minutes!)

If none of you saw him perform live, then you guys missed out huge. I mean, huge.

Yes, most of you can nit-pick and say that he wasn't this and that, or he didn't sing live so he sucked - but geez, give me a break. If you think that he just composed 'pop' then you'd be surprised - he was a big fan of classical music and he produced/composed quite a bit of classical music - it just never got released. (Hopefully, they will do so now)

It's like Denniz 'Pop' (the producer for the backstreet boys, nsync, etc) Everyone hired him mostly for his pop/dance music credentials - but heck he could produce awesome orchestral and new age stuff - but that's not what he was known for or hired for.

Not everyone can sing/perform/compose/produce like that, and have a following that is on such a massive global scale.. to say that such a person isn't influential in music is a myopic statement.

 

[Music_Producer]

It is ignorant to label people as “Stupid” simply because they like a different genre of music than you do.

There'll always be haters.. which is why we have to learn to shrug it off and ignore.

 

[Lavezzi]

Through-out this it was his children I felt the most empathy towards, and whilst a part of me felt hideously uncomfortable with the idea of putting the three children on 'show', Paris's words were indeed touching.


Though I must add reluctantly, the two boy's (prince I & II) chewing gum very nonchalantly, seemingly oblivious or unmoved, to what was going on in front of them - was extremely disconcerting.

I noticed that too but I'm trying not to read too much into it. Everyone deals with grief in their own way.

 

[sushi]

Just incredible. Nobody today comes close, no matter how many moves Usher steals, or how many hats Timberlake makes popular again. We really lost something special last week, didn't we.

I would say so.

If none of you saw him perform live, then you guys missed out huge. I mean, huge.

I wish that I would have been able to see him perform live.

Saw many videos of his performances but it's not the same thing as live.

His music videos were awesome. Thriller was incredible. He was so far ahead of the others at that time.

 

[cyrusmekon]

Good bye Michael Jackson: From Melbourne

I know everyone is probably sick of hearing about good old MJ however i went to Federation square at 3 am here in Melbourne, Australia this morning to capture the mood of those who truly loved him (Otherwise they wouldnt have been there at 3am in sub zero conditions).

Just a selection and hopefully they catch the subdued mood of respect and celebration at Federation Square. More in my Flickr account. Hope you enjoy.

Flick set

 

[Music_Producer]

His music videos were awesome. Thriller was incredible. He was so far ahead of the others at that time.

Yep, he was way ahead. Check out some posts from a studio engineer who actually worked with him -

http://www.gearspace.com/board/so-much-gear-so-little-time/401331-robmix-tell-us-about-mj.html

His name is 'robmix'. I've read a lot of other interviews with keyboardists who worked with him and other musicians/producers/engineers - the common factor is that he was talented beyond one's wildest dreams and was extremely humble and a nice person. Will be missed

Oh, and he never cussed. All you have to do is check out the artists dominating the top charts today - all you hear is *bleep* ..