Microsoft Alters "Laptop Hunters" Ads in Wake of Apple Price Cuts

[Anuba]

Even so, for as large as Microsoft is, how can you claim that a mere $3.x billion is a significant figure when a company about 1/8th its size made effectively twice the profit for its size? 1/8th of $3B is only $375M. Comparitively speaking, Apple made 6x the profit by size than Microsoft. No matter how you look at it, Apple's numbers are showing just how weak Microsoft really is--for now.

Yeah, uh... you might wanna look at what these companies actually *released* during the given timeframe before jumping to conclusions. Apple unleashed a product line-wide refresh of their portables, plus a new iPhone. What did Microsoft do? Well, since they don't have Apple's whole secrecy thing going on, they announced Windows 7 way ahead of the release date. And not only that, but they released a public beta and a public release candidate too. Naturally this killed Vista sales in a split second. With their most coveted product in ages (Win7) not available for purchase for a few more months, and nothing new on the Office front (Office 2007 is almost 3 years old), I was expecting a lot worse than $3B from one old and one dead product. If that's Microsoft at their weakest, I'm impressed. Traditionally, announcements of upcoming Windows versions always strangled PC sales -- and this was never more true than now, due to the fact that the current offering, Vista, is one of the biggest flops in the company's history, while Win7 is already a runaway success generating tons of buzz. Let them have a few months worth of Win7 sales, then we can compare numbers.

The very fact MS changed their ads speak volumes!

Right, and the fact that Apple lowered prices on Macs after being publicly ridiculed for their reality-detached pricing doesn't speak volumes at all . Why did Microsoft have to change their ads again? Because Apple lowered their prices. And why did Apple lower their prices? That's right.

 

[thecartoonguy]

91% in the premium category is kinda a ridiculous number. Because the majority of computers are cheaper than $1,000, making that market MUCH more lucrative. Also, How many Windows PCs are even above $1,000? That's like saying Bently has a 91% share in the category of $200,000+ cars.

But Bently does have a 90% share.

 

[deconstruct60]

I say again: At a corporate level, any reduction is profits is considered a 'Loss.' How many more times do I have to say that?

You can say it a hundred times. Doesn't make it true or at the very least highly inaccurate characterization. A decline in profit. Lack/loss of growth are much more accurate descriptions.

The "loss" makes for great headlines. What passes for journalism will happily lead to use that term that way because it leads to more web hits and salacious headlines. The CEO will not want the company slammed in the press, but that is not a balance sheet discussion. The CEO can also be afraid of the "must show growth or short sell them to death" crowd on Wall Street too.



Anybody who has a loss and has $3 B more rattling around in their pockets at the end of the quarter defies common sense.


There is no loss. What they have lost , for the moment, is growth.

Microsoft: Mkt cap 207.36B; Shares 8.90B
Total Revenue: 15,837.00; Net Income: 4,297.00 (as of Jun '08)
Total Revenue: 13,099; Net Income: $3,045 (as of Jun '09)

Apple: Mkt cap 142.45B; Shares 892.11M
Total Revenue: 7,464.00; Net Income: 1,072.00 (as of Jun '08);
Total Revenue: 8,337; Net Income: 1,229.00 (as of Jun '09)

The data above clearly demonstrates that Microsoft is larger by more than one indicator. This also shows that Microsoft showed a definitive drop in income and profits year over year as compared to Apple. Need I say more?

Income is profits. So it can't be "income and profits". Yet another of these slipping back in to journalistic sloppy terms which substitute 'income' for 'revenue'. Stunning given the the more accurate terms are right above.

 

[MacFly123]

Haha!!! So much for that douche bags remarks about the best business call he ever got from Apple's lawyers over the commercials!

I don't even care seriously, Apple and Microsoft aside, if your ads are making false, outdated comparisons or claims, that is false advertising. This is proven correct by the fact that they just changed the ad. It is as simple as that!

 

[MacFly123]

Apple, on the other hand, saw significant growth by selling things other than computers.

Like online services, software, XBOX, or Zune??? Oh and Microsoft does NOT SELL COMPUTERS!

 

[Goona]

Hey Microsoft why don't you worry about your falling revenue and profits, your Office and Windows monopoly won't always be there to print you money.

 

[Eidorian]

Hey Microsoft why don't you worry about your falling revenue and profits, your Office and Windows monopoly won't always be there to print you money.

How does this work?

 

[deconstruct60]

If that's Microsoft at their weakest, I'm impressed.

Another turn the corner aspect might be signing some ad revenue sharing agreement with Yahoo. The sheet will be jacked if they have to buy part of it though.


If Apple were trying to gear up to compete against Google their margins might be slimmer to.

Larger companies fight battles on multiple fronts. It is increasing unrealistic to expect the margins to stay just as high as company grows bigger and broader. Unless there is someone doing voodoo match (cough Enron , Worldcomm , Madoff , Sanford , etc. ) and whacky temporary conditions ( speculation sending oil into whack price points ) that just doesn't happen.

Advertising is another one those high profit margin areas.

Right, and the fact that Apple lowered prices on Macs after being publicly ridiculed for their reality-detached pricing doesn't speak volumes at all . Why did Microsoft have to change their ads again? Because Apple lowered their prices. And why did Apple lower their prices? That's right.

It isn't just Microsoft. Apple is swimming upstream from Intel , Moore's law, and the multi decade long steady decrease in average PC computer price. Microsoft is only shining the spotlight on that and asking folks is that makes sense to them. If Microsoft didn't another vendor would get around to it eventually. Microsoft is the best proxy for the group though.



Nor is Apple recession proof. Extend the recession out long enough and Apple would start to crumble too. Apple crumbles less than many because have a giant amount of deferred revenue on the books that will wink in to some extent. Those longer term relationships would have to all dry up for things to really start going backwards.

 

[eastercat]

I don't know about the money issue, but I do know that my PC costed me personal time. Currently, I make about $20/hr. If I were paid for all the hours that I wasted on keeping my PC from being infected, slowed, etc., I could've bought the MBP I have right now and have some change left.
Maybe you get paid more than I do. Maybe you don't. But what is your personal time worth to you? Would you spend it cleaning up your Windows registry or maybe spend it on something you want to do?
IMO, time is just as valuable as my money. Question is, what is it worth to you?

Come on....how are you going to say a "PC is more expensive to maintain?"

Both can have varying costs of ownership....but for instance...my destop, i've had since 2006, have made my own upgrades to keep it up with the times (video card, additional HDD, more RAM).

If i have an issue....it doesn't cost me anything to fix.

At the same level, if someone got a dell warranty their upfront cost covers them for however long they purchased it for....same with Apple care.

Updates come quick, all my software works the way it should. You can't just label PC's as machines that don't work and cost money to maintain.

Thats just a lie.

 

[Anuba]

Hey Microsoft why don't you worry about your falling revenue and profits, your Office and Windows monopoly won't always be there to print you money.

I suspect that's why they've been selling keyboards, mice, games, gaming consoles and cellphone/handheld PC/GPS software for aeons, and now they're venturing into PC retail.

I don't know about the money issue, but I do know that my PC costed me personal time. Currently, I make about $20/hr. If I were paid for all the hours that I wasted on keeping my PC from being infected, slowed, etc., I could've bought the MBP I have right now and have some change left.

Well, I charge $50/hour and I don't really know what you're talking about. You spent hours on keeping your PC from getting "infected"? I've used both Macs and PCs for quite some time, and both do the job, both have their issues but none of them are showstoppers. I'm happy that I never relied entirely on Macs, though, because that would've killed my business. When a computer suffers a hardware failure a couple of days before an important deadline, you need to be up and running pronto. And that's doable if you have a Dell or HP PC, because they come to your home or workplace and repair the computer right there within 24 hrs. If you rely on a Mac there's no such luck. If you have a Mac Pro they *might* repair it on-site, otherwise you have to drive your Mac to some place where they repair it. I did that with my iMac 24" and it took them 3 weeks to replace a dead power supply unit. So if you plan on using them professionally you need a backup Mac on standby because there's a snowball's chance in hell of getting your main Mac repaired before the deadline is blown.

 

[LagunaSol]

Nor is Apple recession proof. Extend the recession out long enough and Apple would start to crumble too.

Sure, and if the sun burns out tomorrow we're all screwed. Ifs are a fun thing to think about.

The bottom line is this: consumers are tiring of the grief of Windows (no matter how "cheap" the hardware is). Security issues will plague Windows 7 just like previous versions because they're the majority player. They will always be the primary target.

And businesses are realizing that Windows XP works just fine for them, and since they don't use the 8,000 features found in Word 2007, what's the point in upgrading to Word 2010 to get 100 more unused features? Seriously, how long can you milk a word processor and a spreadsheet app as your cash cow?

My guess: not much longer.

 

[LagunaSol]

I suspect that's why they've been selling keyboards, mice, games, gaming consoles and cellphone/handheld PC/GPS software for aeons, and now they're venturing into PC retail.

Yeah, how's that gaming console thing been going for the bottom line?

 

[Vulpinemac]

Income is profits. So it can't be "income and profits". Yet another of these slipping back in to journalistic sloppy terms which substitute 'income' for 'revenue'. Stunning given the the more accurate terms are right above.

Net income = Profit. Net income is what is left after all expenses are taken out--including taxes.
Gross revenue = gross income. This is the the money the company takes in from all sources before any costs are calculated.

Either way, Microsoft did not see as much Net Income, and that calculates as a Loss from the previous year's Net Income. Changing the words does not change the facts.

 

[Goona]

I suspect that's why they've been selling keyboards, mice, games, gaming consoles and cellphone/handheld PC/GPS software for aeons, and now they're venturing into PC retail.

Yeah they will use money from their Office and Windows monopoly go dump money into another money losing venture.

 

[i.mac]

On January 24th,

Apple will introduce

iTablet.

And you'll see why 2010

won't be like "2010"

 

[Anuba]

Yeah they will use money from their Office and Windows monopoly go dump money into another money losing venture.

And by "another money losing venture" you mean Windows and Office? Yeah, those really flopped.

 

[Goona]

And by "another money losing venture" you mean Windows and Office? Yeah, those really flopped.

No I mean the billions they lost on the Xbox or are still losing and the milions they are still losing on the Zune!

 

[John.B]

You have missed the point. How is a Adobe security hole (something that they are good at with not just MS operating systems http://www.google.co.uk/search?hl=e...1&q=flash+os+x+security+vulnerability&spell=1 ) going to cause my machine to be exploited by just connecting it to the net?

Keep up, this vulnerability only affects Windows users who open PDFs from the internet (which, according to what I've read on this thread, is approx 90% of computer users).

 

[deconstruct60]

The bottom line is this: consumers are tiring of the grief of Windows (no matter how "cheap" the hardware is). Security issues will plague Windows 7 just like previous versions because they're the majority player. They will always be the primary target.

I've been running Win7 beta in VMware Fusion off and on for a couple of months now. You really need some evidence to back that up.

If follow a procedure of creating and Admin/Install account and then a "normal user" account ( something to do on Mac OS X too) then it is fairly locked down on install. You'll get nagged to install an antivirus program at some point. (Apple recommends but have a standing notification alter on the dock/taskbar about it.... but once you do it goes away. )

The defaults for a normal user for "security/notification" are more reasonable. The ads about pops ups every time you do something are gone, but the protection infrastructure they represent are present.

Install Firefox and avoid IE and that whole virus storm thing is way more closer to hype than reality. (although IE 8 is a bit better at tagging bad stuff.)



Windows 7 is what Vista should have been.

There are multitouch , GUI improvements , IPv6 VPN, and a few other IT management features over XP that are going to be harder and harder for folks to pass up.

Apple's free ride of Microsoft giving them a steady stream of comedy material is over. Increasingly, the ads aren't going to match PC user experiences if keep riding the old stereotypes with old problems. Even more so if Microsoft hires someone to run an ad campaign that gets in there and starts swinging back .

And businesses are realizing that Windows XP works just fine for them, and since they don't use the 8,000 features found in Word 2007, what's the point in upgrading to Word 2010 to get 100 more unused features?

the vast majority of OS upgrades in business is when replace machines. There is only so long that folks can hold out on replacements. Especially since most folks have been on lock down during the current economic downturn.

If corp IT start to OK BOMs with Win7 they will start to pop up.
The XP mode helps to if want to run ancient Win stuff.

There has been a looooooooong very open beta cycle with this OS. If an corp IT person doesn't know what Win7 looks like on a machine in their shop they have been hiding under a rock.

Win7 is more of a known quantity at this point than Vista was. ( and more folks were balking at Vista at this point too. Point out that it wasn't ready for prime time and Microsoft saying Bend over and grease up. ). Microsoft isn't completely humbled, but think are somewhat more customer value proposition sensitive this time.

Seriously, how long can you milk a word processor and a spreadsheet app as your cash cow?

An extremely long time. The cash cow metric is revolves around the propreitary format. Microsoft has open that up so it looks open. Still really isn't. When that changes then.... but as long as dribbling out upgrade after upgrade ..... like I said a very long time.

IBM is cashing monster checks on folks addicted to the OS and data formats on the mainframe.

Couple bundling Office discounts that Microsoft does with Windows boxes once that machine gets rolling, it is formidable.

Orgs aren't being sheep anymore but if Microsoft just cuts them some discounts most will fall in line.

Besides there is user utility in that Web version of Office for mobile folks who are out on the road and only have a browser with a modern, faster javascript engine in it. Microsoft may loose some but get more margin with Sharepoint/Collaborative offerings. Documents/Collaboration that make companies more money is worth it. The workflow of folks shipping endless revisions of word/pp/excel docs in email is ... yuck!
Version control people?

My guess: not much longer.

Don't hold your breath. I'm not a huge fan of Office either. However, the depth of how deep they are embedded is huge. Even Apples charts for the calls are distilled out of Excel (by apparently their PR agency).

Even companies that have their own internal Office replacements (Sun and Apple ) have trouble pushing it out without rigid eviction edicts.

 

[layte]

I say again: At a corporate level, any reduction is profits is considered a 'Loss.' How many more times do I have to say that?




Microsoft: Mkt cap 207.36B; Shares 8.90B
Total Revenue: 15,837.00; Net Income: 4,297.00 (as of Jun '08)
Total Revenue: 13,099; Net Income: $3,045 (as of Jun '09)

Apple: Mkt cap 142.45B; Shares 892.11M
Total Revenue: 7,464.00; Net Income: 1,072.00 (as of Jun '08);
Total Revenue: 8,337; Net Income: 1,229.00 (as of Jun '09)

The data above clearly demonstrates that Microsoft is larger by more than one indicator. This also shows that Microsoft showed a definitive drop in income and profits year over year as compared to Apple. Need I say more?

Once again pesky facts get in the way of what you are saying. Where in those silly mcap/revenue/income figures does it indicate that Apple is only 1/8 the size of Microsoft?

I see a company pulling only 40% (very rough, took a quick look with no calculation math) more total revenue but more than double the income on that revenue than the other. Also I see no loss, no matter what you try and spin.

 

[RebootD]

The fact that you've "... built and maintained..." eliminates the concept of 'consumer,' which the Laptop Hunters ads were targeting.

Dr. Mr. Semantics:

con⋅sum⋅er
  /kənˈsumər/ Show Spelled Pronunciation [kuhn-soo-mer]
–noun
1. a person or thing that consumes.
2. Economics. a person or organization that uses a commodity or service.

Pretty sure I fit both of those and that, by definition, makes me a consumer.

 

[layte]

Keep up, this vulnerability only affects Windows users who open PDFs from the internet (which, according to what I've read on this thread, is approx 90% of computer users).

Right.. OK. You still missed the point I was making and are still missing it right now, but never mind, have a cookie. Now then, be careful when getting down from that high horse, as if you bothered to click that link I posted, you will see that OS X has also suffers its fair share of Flash vulnerabilities. So I ask once again, what does a flash vulnerability have to do with a ancient version of a MS OS being rooted with no user intervention when left unpatched and directly connected to the internet?

 

[diamond.g]

Right.. OK. You still missed the point I was making and are still missing it right now, but never mind, have a cookie. Now then, be careful when getting down from that high horse, as if you bothered to click that link I posted, you will see that OS X has also suffers its fair share of Flash vulnerabilities. So I ask once again, what does a flash vulnerability have to do with a ancient version of a MS OS being rooted with no user intervention when left unpatched and directly connected to the internet?

You must have missed where they implied that all PCs come with Adobe Acrobat Reader installed right out of the gate.

 

[gnasher729]

I just think it's funny that at about the same time MS's COO was gloating about Apple's complaint the MS lawyers must have been saying, "Ah, wait a minute guys. We've got to do what they want."

It sure ain't no victory for MS.

Actually, they don't care too much at all. Most of the time, like in this case, all that is needed is a slight change of words to stay on the right side of the law, without really changing much of the advert. Like "a Mac costs twice as much" which is factually wrong when you compare a $1700 Mac and a $1000 PC, and gets changed to "a Mac costs a lot more" (just comparing prices, not saying anything about the value).

 

[LagunaSol]

Microsoft Store concept PPT on Gizmodo

Please, MacRumors, PLEASE run a story on this leaked PowerPoint from Microsoft showing the Microsoft Store concept (with Answer Bar (I'm not lying), theater (Whoa!!!) and....IN-STORE BIRTHDAY PARTIES!!!

I am not making this up.

http://gizmodo.com/5322328/leak-ins...all+sized-screens-and-the-answer-bar/gallery/

We need a thread for this one. I want to hear how all the Ballmer-lovin' Winbots that infest this forum are going to spin this one.

LOL!!!

Aiden Shaw, can I please come to your birthday party at the Microsoft Store?

LOL!!!!!

P.S. the commentary on Gizmodo is hilarious. Can't wait until it hits Engadget, where the true Apple haters dwell...