Microsoft Announces New 'Surface' Tablet, New Hardware and Software Based on Windows 8

[KnightWRX]

Can't be that insane since the PPC Macs I still use works great for my needs, and there are loads of people in the PPC section that still use it. And I have no brand loyalty to Apple, like some fanboys.

I think your original comment was that using PPC made you true to Mac. No, it doesn't. Intel Macs are as true as PPC Macs, they are also much better (while my SPARC Ultra 5 and your PPC Mac may still work, both are POSes to 2012 standards) and wanting to be "true to Brand X" is what is insane.

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My employer GAVE me my old Itanium2 Workstation, Dual Itanium2 Processors, 900mzh. 6gb RAM, Quadro FX5800 series ( I think ), garbage 200gb HDD. Its EPIC ( No it isn't. Its old )

Its not X86, so it must be amazing right? ( its Native 64bit, it won't work about 95% of X86 applications )

Don't talk about Itanium like that, my job these days is supporting a bunch of Itanium boxes running HP-UX.

I like my little Itanium buddies (screw that, HP, give us x86_64 HP-UX damn it!)

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But my Hobby ( gaming ) and my profession ( which deals with a ton of simulation software ), means that I need amounts of ram in the 100+gb range, and I need to anally rape numbers, just to get large simulations to work. So for me, hardware power is everything.

Would I love to carry around a Macbook Air? Rather than an ELEVEN POUND Alienware Laptop? Yes. But as of now. That isn't happening lol.

Get a better hobby and profession.

My hobby (programming. Yes. I write code for fun) and my profession (Unix systems administrator) means I can do everything from the nice small MBA instead of an 11 lbs Alienware.

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Intel really isn't my beef, its more of the x86. Intel is the target because they are the key player in that creposystem. AMD would get it too if they were a head, though they have a decent gpu in the low power end that would be sweet on ARM device.

And what do you feel is wrong with x86 itself ?

And my might G5 tower and Powerbook are still churning away hard, and full use, without any issues.

And my MBA out processes them while weighting over a tenth of their combined weight and fitting into a space also a tenth of their combined size.

 

[diamond.g]

And what do you feel is wrong with x86 itself ?

I think the beef is with CISC vs RISC. From my understanding even Intel uses RISC in their CPU's with CISC (x86) portions for backwards compatibility. Hence the increase in IPC.

 

[KnightWRX]

I think the beef is with CISC vs RISC. From my understanding even Intel uses RISC in their CPU's with CISC (x86) portions for backwards compatibility. Hence the increase in IPC.

And what pray tell about CISC vs RISC changes something for a user like Coldsmack would probably can't tell EAX from EBX, ECX or EDX (yes, I know ... ) ?

(And no, Intel CPUs actually have RISC cores, have had them since the P6 architecture, with CISC being implemented on top, and translated to RISC before final execution).

 

[diamond.g]

And what pray tell about CISC vs RISC changes something for a user like Coldsmack would probably can't tell EAX from EBX, ECX or EDX (yes, I know ... ) ?

(And no, Intel CPUs actually have RISC cores, have had them since the P6 architecture, with CISC being implemented on top, and translated to RISC before final execution).

Beats me

 

[pundit]

A few things we know (mostly pro oriented):

Although we don't have official confirmation, ballpark numbers have been reported, $600 for the RT and $1000 for the Pro. I don't think these are carved in stone; MS was happy and successful doing a loss leader price strategy on the xbox,BUT this pricing may be a token gesture to the OEMs so they have some room to manuever.

The $600 seems a bit high, but this isn't an android driven device. The keyboard cover is a premium feature (and technically is awesome,) and it had better be included a that price.

The $1000 is perfectly competitive, especially given it's effectively a new product segment ("full OS" tab with x86 vs "mobile OS" tab with ARM.) It includes a stylus, and this abeit criticism about it's utility is absolutely great already in the Asus slate (and pressure sensitive on there, so a pressure sensitive one here would be unsurprising.)

What is the cooling mechanism of the pro? The basic cooling is passive cooling at the edges, that will handle the idling heat from the processor. Port venting plus a fan will handle the rest. We don't know how loud the cooling solution will be, but this hasn't been abnormal on either the latest ultra books or, again on the most modern slate pcs. The latest icore processors pose less of a heating issue than earlier generations. Passive cooling may be the default, and active when under load.

"The kickstand is a dumb idea, and you can't use the keyboard on your lap.". Already debunked. Check out the techradar hands on pictures.

On comparing the pro to an air/ultra book: You CAN, and certainly it's natural on an Apple forum, where they don't have a device in this class, but a slate PC is in a completely different realm of convenience and flexibility, especially when you consider pen input AND touch screen. A clamshell is never going to be as convenient as a touch input tablet, especially one that can have the cover folded to the back OR be a regular "smart" cover OR operate as a multitouch keyboard.

I use an IPad a lot, probably 95% for browsing, but I'm awfully frustrated by the limitations of a webkit browser (and mobile device browsers, even 3rd party are almost uniformly based on webkit even if they are reskined.). A browser like Firefox has it's own extensible engine (and webkit is basically monolithic, requiring significant work to make non-aesthetic changes.). I can't wait for real browser choice on a tablet device.

On the battery life, we won't know how it stacks up, yet, but we have some ideas with the pro version because we can compare the watt/hours of 'like' devices. The MacBook air has a 35 watt hour rated battery, and the surface pro 42, so 20% more. This doesn't mean we can infer 20% more battery life for the pro, BUT it has very comparable components. I would eat my hat if the pro didn't have close to (or more than) battery life to the air than old style slate pcs. Battery life was really the primary downside for the Asus slate, and I was on the fence pulling the trigger on the $1300 version of that, so a great battery, for me at least, would be a killer feature for the pro.

 

[coldmack]

I think your original comment was that using PPC made you true to Mac. No, it doesn't. Intel Macs are as true as PPC Macs, they are also much better (while my SPARC Ultra 5 and your PPC Mac may still work, both are POSes to 2012 standards) and wanting to be "true to Brand X" is what is insane.

Yes it does, because the Macbook line is just essentially a Windows PC with an Apple logo on it so you can legally install OSX on it. It's not being soiled by an option from Apple to install the OS that should not be installed. I am sure if Apple allowed OSX on other devices beside their Macbook line people will be getting other devices, like the Surface Pro, and installing OSX on it, after all they all are essentially using similar hardware.

And my MBA out processes them while weighting over a tenth of their combined weight and fitting into a space also a tenth of their combined size.

That is all fine and well, but you know what my PPC devices are all still being used without much of a hiccup. Just check out the PPC section here and see how many people are using one as their main machines and still are very happy using it.

One example of it. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1373590/



Seeing as the ARM model with be a quad core Tegra 3 device will Windows 8 and apps like their iMovie competitor, and Office be able to take advantage of the extra cores of Tegra 3?

 

[KnightWRX]

Yes it does, because the Macbook line is just essentially a Windows PC with an Apple logo on it so you can legally install OSX on it. It's not being soiled by an option from Apple to install the OS that should not be installed. I am sure if Apple allowed OSX on other devices beside their Macbook line people will be getting other devices, like the Surface Pro, and installing OSX on it, after all they all are essentially using similar hardware.

So your point ? You "hate x86" because Windows is made for x86 ?

...

Don't click here if you don't want to cry :


No seriously, what a lack of argument. I want to know what you have against x86. Answer me.

That is all fine and well, but you know what my PPC devices are all still being used without much of a hiccup. Just check out the PPC section here and see how many people are using one as their main machines and still are very happy using it.

One example of it. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1373590/

And my old Dell laptop from 2006 can still browse the web just fine too, do e-mail and I can still program on it. My 1998 built Pentium 2 runs just dandy as my basement server until I'm done building the AMD triple core machine up (lacking free time to do it).

I don't get what you're getting at, doesn't make those machines up to any kind of 2012 standards.

 

[Mad Mac]

Apple has high end hardware?


HAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAHAH!!!!!!!!! WHAT A JOKE. Apple hardware, specs wise anyway.

Is TOTAL GARBAGE. They make nice computers, but, spec wise. They fall flat on their face.

High end hardware that I'm talking about is materials, design, attention to details of user interaction, quality, and use of technology such as high PPI screens, etc. Form, fit and function as a whole.

Super high hardware specs mean nothing if it's wrapped in junk and functions like crap as a whole. Look at Android phones for an example.

 

[pundit]

Seeing as the ARM model with be a quad core Tegra 3 device will Windows 8 and apps like their iMovie competitor, and Office be able to take advantage of the extra cores of Tegra 3?

Yep, afaik multithreading IS okay in Metro, but that people are still getting used to it

http://social.msdn.microsoft.com/Fo...e/thread/8b047482-971c-4084-b315-da2c77a2ff69

The core of Windows 8 Phone and RT (Arm) are being converged and a specific point was made of their multicore awareness.

 

[MacNewsFix]

This is sorta true. Even the simplest changes can freak out some people, especially when they're not your usual "computer people".

Exactly, which is sadly the vast majority of people.

But the desktop is still exactly as it is in Windows 7, and Metro, though different, is about as simple a UI as you can ask for. It's a bunch of big floating tiles after all. As long as the person using it can read, they shouldn't have any trouble finding their programs.

It's not finding their programs that is the problem. The problem is most people adapt to computers by routine, not by understanding the principles behind the why. Interrupt the routine, interrupt the workflow, wake the dragon.

I applaud Microsoft for trying to do something somewhat unique (unlike other companies that will remain nameless, and I'm not referring to Apple which has a track record of pushing boundaries) with Metro and attempt to bring the computer interface to meet the way people think instead of the other way around. However, that means risking your current base of users; and while without risk there is no reward, the enterprise space tends to shy away from major changes without a very evident increase in productivity to outweigh any interruptions while employees adapt. Meanwhile, Windows 8 Pro is like someone standing on two logs running down river.

Oh yes, I'm sure your correct.

No wait, you have no clue what your talking about.

You don't say. Thanks for sharing your stellar insight.

 

[AidenShaw]

The core of Windows 8 Phone and RT (Arm) are being converged and a specific point was made of their multicore awareness.

Yes, Microsoft has been using event-driven preemptive multi-tasking for far longer than Apple. Microsoft also supports far larger systems than Apple (Windows Server supports 64 sockets and up to 256 cores, with up to 2 TiB of RAM).

 

[2IS]

Yes it does, because the Macbook line is just essentially a Windows PC with an Apple logo on it so you can legally install OSX on it. It's not being soiled by an option from Apple to install the OS that should not be installed. I am sure if Apple allowed OSX on other devices beside their Macbook line people will be getting other devices, like the Surface Pro, and installing OSX on it, after all they all are essentially using similar hardware.


That is all fine and well, but you know what my PPC devices are all still being used without much of a hiccup. Just check out the PPC section here and see how many people are using one as their main machines and still are very happy using it.

One example of it. https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/1373590/



Seeing as the ARM model with be a quad core Tegra 3 device will Windows 8 and apps like their iMovie competitor, and Office be able to take advantage of the extra cores of Tegra 3?

Soooo you want Apple to stay with a weak ass CPU because Windows uses the better one? Sounds perfectly rational to me.

 

[smoledman]

Yes, Microsoft has been using event-driven preemptive multi-tasking for far longer than Apple. Microsoft also supports far larger systems than Apple (Windows Server supports 64 sockets and up to 256 cores, with up to 2 TiB of RAM).

The funny thing is Joe Belfiore said that Windows Phone 8 could theoretically run on 64-core processor.

 

[AidenShaw]

The funny thing is Joe Belfiore said that Windows Phone 8 could theoretically run on 64-core processor.

Isn't common source a wonderful thing!

 

[DingleButt]

Isn't common source a wonderful thing!

If it runs efficiently, then switching to NT seems like a very good move. I just hope developers take note which I think was the biggest factor in this decision as Microsoft pushes two essentially new platforms (Win 8 Metro and WP8).

 

[AidenShaw]

If it runs efficiently, then switching to NT seems like a very good move. I just hope developers take note which I think was the biggest factor in this decision as Microsoft pushes two essentially new platforms (Win 8 Metro and WP8).

...both based on Win32....

(APIs are more important than OSes)

 

[Buildbright]

Windows 7 is approaching a half a billion users. Image what the numbers will be when the majority make the change? Try it again.

Edit: After a bit of research, it looks like my half a billion licenses sold is on the low side. There was an earnings report in January of this year that stated that over 525 million licenses had been sold. And they've probably sold a few since then too.
Why would Microsoft want to copy Apple? Even Vista has sold over double the numbers of every Apple operating system combined since the day the company was founded until the present.

http://www.microsoft.com/investor/E...s/PressReleaseAndWebcast/FY12/Q2/default.aspx

How many users are still on vista? Windows 8 has not been proven it will be successful yet. In fact they have raised the questions of the tons of problems and headaches 8 will bring. Your installed copy's of Windows 7 numbers seem even sadder since over 415 million PC's were sold just last year.

Why would Microsoft copy the most profitable tech company in the world? You really need me to answer that? Why arent you posting on a Microsoft rumor site? That's right because no one cares. Lol

 

[Renzatic]

In fact they have raised the questions of the tons of problems and headaches 8 will bring.

Since you seem to be so knowledgeable on the subject, maybe you can tell me exactly what problems Windows 8 will bring to the world at large.

 

[AidenShaw]

Since you seem to be so knowledgeable on the subject, maybe you can tell me exactly what problems Windows 8 will bring to the world at large.

Windows 8 will be a problem for Apple, that's for sure.

 

[pundit]

If it runs efficiently, then switching to NT seems like a very good move. I just hope developers take note which I think was the biggest factor in this decision as Microsoft pushes two essentially new platforms (Win 8 Metro and WP8).

1 platform. Windows 8. The Windows 8 Phone and ARM/x86 Metro are just wrappers on the shared core. And developing for the two different targets is as simple as changing the destination platform in Visual Studio, pretty much.

Complete portability.. That's why the windows app market is going to explode; there will be a gigantic user base to market to. The idea was always creating a symbiotic halo between mobile and desktop, and a shared familiarity. Its pretty smart business.

 

[DingleButt]

1 platform. Windows 8. The Windows 8 Phone and ARM/x86 Metro are just wrappers on the shared core. And developing for the two different targets is as simple as changing the destination platform in Visual Studio, pretty much.

Complete portability.. That's why the windows app market is going to explode; there will be a gigantic user base to market to. The idea was always creating a symbiotic halo between mobile and desktop, and a shared familiarity. Its pretty smart business.

Yeah, platforms was the wrong word. Meant more of the two new stores and the API's.

 

[pundit]

How many users are still on vista? Windows 8 has not been proven it will be successful yet. In fact they have raised the questions of the tons of problems and headaches 8 will bring. Your installed copy's of Windows 7 numbers seem even sadder since over 415 million PC's were sold just last year.

Windows 7 was the most successful launch in MS history. It overtook the behemoth XP back in Oct 11. Every other OS company WISHES it had a product that successful.

As for the "tons of problems and headaches 8 will bring," I haven't seen anything but conjecture from people with a vested interest in that. Like Acer getting butt hurt that MS is forcing OEMs to up their game (when Acer specializes in cheap mediocre tech,) or the Linux guy who predicted doom for Windows 7...

Of course, you can keep hoping that Windows 7 will be the next great thing, but, based on what those of us who are taking a real look at what's coming, you're going to be sorely disappointed.

Moran.

 

[Buildbright]

Since you seem to be so knowledgeable on the subject, maybe you can tell me exactly what problems Windows 8 will bring to the world at large.

-A tablet optimized OS on desktops.
-A touch based navigation without any specific hardware for desktop users.
-Fragmentation of apps (a lot will not work on Arm)
-100% different than in place now.

I could go on and on but I don't think it will labor my point. Microsoft is gambling it could pay off but it's risky and only time will tell. Microsoft has a track record of coming out with OS flops. 2000, ME, Vista.

 

[AppleScruff1]

How many users are still on vista? Windows 8 has not been proven it will be successful yet. In fact they have raised the questions of the tons of problems and headaches 8 will bring. Your installed copy's of Windows 7 numbers seem even sadder since over 415 million PC's were sold just last year.

Why would Microsoft copy the most profitable tech company in the world? You really need me to answer that? Why arent you posting on a Microsoft rumor site? That's right because no one cares. Lol

Then by this statement Apple is even below pathetic. They haven't sold 100 million computers in their entire existence. Windows 7 is the largest selling operation system in the world. Period. End of story. Twist it anyway you like. Deal with it. It's ok, you can still like your Apple products. I'm just stating the facts. It's not my problem that you can't handle them.

 

[Buildbright]

Windows 7 was the most successful launch in MS history. It overtook the behemoth XP back in Oct 11. Every other OS company WISHES it had a product that successful.

As for the "tons of problems and headaches 8 will bring," I haven't seen anything but conjecture from people with a vested interest in that. Like Acer getting butt hurt that MS is forcing OEMs to up their game (when Acer specializes in cheap mediocre tech,) or the Linux guy who predicted doom for Windows 7...

Microsoft is successful in an operating system industry where there is two major OS's? And only Microsofts system is the only one open to other vendors. How successful was 2000, Me, or Vista? Would Windows 7 success have anything to do with the fact they are making more PC's? Besides the PC war is over more smartphones are sold then PC's. Tablets and PCs are the future and Apple owns maybe no the markets hard but all the profits. I don't know about you but I would rather have more profit than marketshare.

What great hardware has Microsoft created? The natural keyboard? The Xbox 360 that bricks just after the Warrenty is lapsed. Come on you are excited about something that has no merit other than it sounds cool.