I almost bought a Surface Pro a few months ago. I didn't because I guessed it was not yet ready for prime time. Still, it impressed me in a way very few hardware has ever done. And it seemed to be far more useful than an iPad.
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Microsoft Announces Surface 2 and Surface Pro 2
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I almost bought a Surface Pro a few months ago. I didn't because I guessed it was not yet ready for prime time. Still, it impressed me in a way very few hardware has ever done. And it seemed to be far more useful than an iPad.
An A7 chip in an iPad is going to be a lot of computing power. And 64-bit Mac OS Apps seem to be transitioning easier to iOS on the A7. That probably comes out by end of October and sells for $500. I think Apple has just moved the goal posts on Microsoft.
Apple: phones + tablets = unified. Mac = separate.
Microsoft: PCs, Surface Pro = Separate, Phone = Separate, Surface RT = separate.
Apple's separation is by user interaction demarcation: you use the mac differently than the handhelds. This is important.
Microsoft demarcation seems to be skewed, almost experimental. You buy an app on surface RT. Will it run on your surface pro? your PC? They are sold like they run windows.
I don't know if folks commented on this bit, but it is very telling.
"Microsoft will begin accepting pre-orders for the new Surface tablets on September 24, shipping them on October 22, which falls in the time frame of a prospective October Apple event that could see the introduction of Apple's fifth-generation iPad and Retina iPad mini."
Basically Mcsft is giving itself a month of pre-orders. In modern manufacturing time that is time to raise or lower production levels significantly. They are really making sure they don't get stuck with another glut of products to write down and also not have to cut prices to get them to move. I'd do the same because this product really might not sell at all.
And the iPad and iPad mini with A7 is going to be a powerhouse. And way cheaper than Surface Pro. This is going to be very hard for Mcsft to compete with.
"Microsoft will begin accepting pre-orders for the new Surface tablets on September 24, shipping them on October 22, which falls in the time frame of a prospective October Apple event that could see the introduction of Apple's fifth-generation iPad and Retina iPad mini."
Basically Mcsft is giving itself a month of pre-orders. In modern manufacturing time that is time to raise or lower production levels significantly. They are really making sure they don't get stuck with another glut of products to write down and also not have to cut prices to get them to move. I'd do the same because this product really might not sell at all.
And the iPad and iPad mini with A7 is going to be a powerhouse. And way cheaper than Surface Pro. This is going to be very hard for Mcsft to compete with.
It was a simple question based on your previous post and you didn't need to go there about you being here longer than me or being more active than me, that sounds childish. I've been on the Mac for 15 years, back since the early days of Mac OS 8 and I've been consistent since then on the platform so please don't compare yourself to me just because you've been here on MR one whole year longer plus a few months. Calm down.
whatever, read your original response and see that you were aggresive, and of course decided that since you 'use' but 'don't rely' on Excel at your insurance office, then the rest of the world is probably the same.
I don't hate m$ but if I go Windows I want a full PC experience not an iPad alike experience.
If I want to use a real tablet I will go for iPad, thanks very much.
If I want to use a real tablet I will go for iPad, thanks very much.
Welcome to the future finally Microsoft...
All i have to say is.. now that this Surface/Pro 2 has Intel Haswell and USB3.0 with 8Gig, as standard, maybe hardware specs alone can sell this thing..
You reckon ?? MS sure thinks so anyway.
Just once, i'd like to see Microsoft top Apple on the "how many tablets were sold in x quarter"
That will only tell me its popular, nothing else.
All i have to say is.. now that this Surface/Pro 2 has Intel Haswell and USB3.0 with 8Gig, as standard, maybe hardware specs alone can sell this thing..
You reckon ?? MS sure thinks so anyway.
Just once, i'd like to see Microsoft top Apple on the "how many tablets were sold in x quarter"
That will only tell me its popular, nothing else.
I do NOT want a laptop running iOS, hence the emoticon of the guy freaking out, doh. I thought it was kind of obvious, but oh well...
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Oh nice, that's cool to hear. Thanks for the info - I actually have a mate who bought the surface when it was super cheap lol, and I'm sure he'd love some more storage
You don't happen to know an equivalent thing for windows do ya?
What equivalent thing are you looking for?
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Unfortunately they won't be winning any sales records, they will continue to slide into oblivion. They just have an incredibly poor strategy, with an amazing blindness to hindsight and a complete lack of awareness of what consumers want.
The answer to your last question is Yes.
Metro apps run on everything. Once Xbox and Phone are brought into the fold, it will be one app, everywhere.
the desktop should on be on laptops and pcs. the surface rt should have it remove IMHO, and I reckon it will once Office group gets their arse in gear and release a metro version. While it is true that you can multitask with documents easier on the desktop, with split screen snapping of the metro environment this should help alleviate this issue some what.
I can't believe it! They actually decided to push for the upgraded version after the fail.
On top of that, it's after their loss of $900M on Surface.
They purchased Nokia and we have not seen anything from it yet. MS must have earn tonnes of money to be able to go bonker like this.
On top of that, it's after their loss of $900M on Surface.
They purchased Nokia and we have not seen anything from it yet. MS must have earn tonnes of money to be able to go bonker like this.
You hit this right on the head. The Pro has a shot at being an excellent full blown laptop replacement, but the RT has no shot at competing with the ipad and ipad mini. At least for a while.
I think they can still do it if they make RT into something that is super optimized, like Apple does with iOS.
Yes, you are misinterpreting me. I am saying that the average person would likely run something like really heavy on an x86 browser, because the average user is not above average. I say this because we are told all the time that ARM is low power and bay trail isn't that much better than Tegra 4.
We both like RT?
What? No, I was making an excuse for why it is taking them so long. It is a big project, it will happen eventually. I expect it to be for people who have a 365 subscription already, though. I doubt they're going to be handing off their money to Apple.
I think so. Somebody else will have to chip in and correct you if you're wrong.
wow, who wants viruses and desktop apps on their hybrid device.
while they have everything in iPad too.
M$ is producing JUNK!
If you're getting viruses these days, you're doing something wrong. Likely using XP. Also, they don't have everything in the iPad. Or are you taking a jab at the RT? Because there are no viruses for the RT.
Not yet.We are talking about a full blown OS here still. I'd be surprised if there aren't.
Just like Mac, we all thought Apple were clean of malware, till the first one came out.
And the owners would still be safe because we have a good, safe, app store. We have to jailbreak to install otherwise.
Yes, you can apparently jailbreak an RT. I have never done it, though.
I was referring to the act of desktop Macs as thought of being safe, NOT iOS.
I already know iOS is secure.
The Xbox 360 is the only unreliable hardware I have known Microsoft to make. All their other hardware has been extremely reliable and well built.I nearly choked on my coffee, please tell me you are being sarcastic?
The xbox360's kept dying of the red ring of death.
Yeah reliability is microsofts strong point.
While it is anecdotal, I have known more people to have their PS3s "YLoD" rather than their 360s "RRoD".
Anything designed to run on the Surface (Metro) will run on the Surface Pro. It's the other way around that doesn't work.
It has worked very well for Microsoft in the games console space.Round 2 of more heartache for M$. I guess 'keep pushing' worked for Nokia, Blackberry, Kodak, Dell.. So why not?
It has a lot of computing power for an ARM chip. It is in no way comparable to the kind of computing power in the Surface Pro.
I agree, Microsoft definitely needs to unify Windows Phone and WinRT.
Any apps you buy on Surface (WinRT) will run on Surface Pro.
WinRT will not run legacy apps. I don't think it's that confusing.
Windows 8.1 doesn't ship until October 18th.
The Surface Pro is not intended to compete with the iPad - it's for people that find tablets like the iPad far too restrictive in terms of performance, and what they can do with the device.
The Surface 2 is cheaper than the equivalent iPad.
The point of a Surface Pro is that you get both.
Apparently you don't know how the world works. They can't just buy Nokia and have new products out within a month.
I'm not understanding how you are phrasing that. You are saying that the average person has no need of a x86 setup because they would not be performing above average tasks? Once again, I'm just trying to get what you are saying straight because I don't understand the way you are writing it. If you are saying that the average user doesn't need x86 IMO you are completely eliminating Microsofts main selling point, that is having legacy programs and a full PC/OS. Windows RT was and is a complete failure, they will lose another 900 million or more this round. I honestly think this is Ballmer saying F--- You to MS as he is kicked out the door, who else could be as incredibly dumb to continue to push RT?
I don't disagree with you though, most consumers want a "dumb" tablet, that's why the ipad and android tablets do so well. No reason MS can't do as well with Metro, except their app store is not up to par, although I've said this before having 100,328 fart apps doesn't necessarily make apple better if the consumer can get all his core apps from MS. That remains to be seen as to the extent MS can or cannot build out their app store.
I still think there is a subset of consumers who do want a real OS on their tablet. People who truly do want to replace their laptop and ipad and just have one single device. Consumers who do have a need for windows legacy programs and will also appreciate Metro. People like myself. Is it enough people to make MS a profit, yeah I think so, although I think it's only a fraction of the people who will buy ipads because of the popularity, build quality and app store.
I think we are a juncture where laptops might have been years ago if say Apple was the first to successfully market a laptop but had iOS on it. Would we have known what a real OS on a laptop was? Would we have all the same exact detractors saying "you don't need a real OS on a laptop", or "if you want to get real work done buy a desktop"? iOS was a necessary evil due to hardware and battery constraints, but those days are over and we don't have to settle for iOS. My hope is that Apple, with their switch to x64, is hoping to put more muscle behind iOS, or maybe merge it with OSx, but seeing how incredibly anemic their changes to iOS7 were I have my doubts.
I wasn't even talking about iOS. I was saying that Windows RT people will be safe even after viruses are written because of the fact that you can only get things from the store.
I think one of Microsoft's biggest selling points is that they're competent coders, at least that's what I like about them. Are they perfect? Of course not, no company is ran by perfect people and/or staffed by them. They make mistakes, but they're a good software company. Look at Windows Phone 7, for example. Look at Windows Phone 8. Look at how good IE 10 and 11 are, even 9 is fairly decent. Look at Visual Studio. Look at Microsoft Office. Microsoft has much more going for them than their legacy support, they have the ability to make kick-arse programs.
Of course, the main selling point of a Windows machine is normally the ability to run x86. And for the people who need really powerful machines, that is the Surface Pro. I see, and feel, that there is a place in the market for both the RT to continue and for the full Windows 8 to continue. There are people who keep needing x86, they need a powerhouse, and good on them. My needs aren't the needs of everyone. There are a group of people who don't need x86 support, though, and Microsoft is giving them something that is actually pretty good.
I see Windows RT, and I will continue to call it that, as a potential net gain for a lot of people. They don't want full Windows, but they like the ecosystem that Microsoft provides. I'm looking forward to 8.1, for example, because of the integration with SkyDrive. I like the idea of being able to type up something on my RT at some point, then if I'm using my Air it's there because of the auto syncing.
As for the application problem, it's slowly being fixed. To be honest with you, I was thinking of making a topic at some point in the alternatives forum to ask people what they use their tablets for. Something tells me that the app problem is fairly solved for a good number of people. But the idea is "there's no apps", so some people don't bother even looking. They just see that Apple has hundreds of thousands of apps and so does Google. Then they read a smaller number for Microsoft and assume it means they shouldn't look any further.
Wow M$ is seriously losing it. Why is anyone going to pay laptop price for a tablet? Tablets, though they can be cumbersomely used as a work machine, just aren't as robust as a laptop with a full operating system.
You do realize that the Surface Pro has full Windows 8 and a Haswell processor, right? There is, literally, no difference between this an an ultra book after you add in a keyboard (which you can get a bluetooth keyboard for about 50$ or so).
Wait a minute. Sales were dismal for the Surface right? So why make a 2?
If first you don't succeed, try and try again.
Sales of the first Xbox were dismal. Sales of the 360 were not.
...not that I expect the surface 2 to succeed like the 360.
Wait a minute. Sales were dismal for the Surface right? So why make a 2?
If first you don't succeed, try and try again.
I think you are right.
That's the Microsoft philosophy:
1.) Don't jump into a market when the risk is big.
2.) Let the competitor do the exploring first then enter the market at the "right" time.
3.) If the first generation product fails, improve on it with the second generation. (We have lots of cash)
That's how they did it with the XBOX and XBOX360. I am not sure about the Zune. Probably they made an improved Zune player when the first generation failed. But the Zune is history.
I don't have any tablet PC and I am open to any platform. At the same price range, these tablets from various manufacturers would have similar power. It all comes down to the Apps and software. Apple and Android have the most apps. Microsoft's advantage is on (presumably) seamless integration with its Office Products. Perhaps this second generation Surface is aiming for the business clients.
There is so much ignorance and apple STANS in this thread it's a ****ing joke. Apple fanboys are truly some of the worst, and most blind in the world.
The surface pro is a HYBRID, not a tablet. It can run ALL WINDOWS legacy applications. It also has BETTER specs than the SAME $999 11" Macbook Air (SO how exactly is it overpriced?). It has a built in wacom digitizer which means I can sign documents without the need to print and scan, so it's a REAL productivity device. Jeez, some of you guys need to do some REAL research, and not regurgitate crap from other fanboys.
The surface pro is a HYBRID, not a tablet. It can run ALL WINDOWS legacy applications. It also has BETTER specs than the SAME $999 11" Macbook Air (SO how exactly is it overpriced?). It has a built in wacom digitizer which means I can sign documents without the need to print and scan, so it's a REAL productivity device. Jeez, some of you guys need to do some REAL research, and not regurgitate crap from other fanboys.
More suicidal pricing/sales strategy from Microsoft. Instead of bundling in a touch/type cover on Surface 2 for a total of $399, they price it $449 and make you pay $119/$129 extra for the so-called optional cover. I swear Microsoft SUITS want engineering to fail.