Microsoft Announces Surface Book i7, Desktop PC 'Surface Studio,' and Windows 10 Creators Update

[villicodelirant]

I wish. In fact the enterprise version is not available for individual purchasers (who apparently have no right to privacy as far as Microsoft is concerned).

Let me me play devil's advocate for a moment here.

I understand that my political views (which can be summed up as "total surveillance of everything ever is a good idea") might color my perception, but... why do you care so much about Microsoft gathering usage data from your consumer operating system on you consumer laptop that you use for watching Netflix?

Surely you use Facebook, Google, YouTube, right?
Those do the same.

If you need to comply with specific regulations for your business, buy Enterprise.
If you just want to go full tinfoil, just install Trisquel Linux on a LibreBoot laptop

Yeah, and I guess all the people who are not Windows developers paying $800/year for a subscription are not worthy of privacy.

Apparently Microsoft doesn't sell privacy for less than $800/year.
Microsoft (nor Apple or Google) isn't required or expected to give you privacy unless you pay the price they name.
If you are not comfortable with that, look elsewhere, but tbh this sounds positively tinfoilish to my ears.

 

[0388631]

It looks nice. But to be realistic, and speaking as a longtime Windows user, it won't be pleasant to use when things go wrong. Microsoft support isn't anything like Apple support. Windows 10 is abysmal to use, even now with the anniversary update and all the improvements they've made. If you're a creative, grab yourself a Cintiq from Wacom. Unlike Apple, they've yet to neuter their hardware with fewer ports.

Video professionals who I know and got tired of Apple went on to build their own Xeon workstations running a stable version of Windows. They didn't faff about with Apple and pay high prices on outdated hardware. And they certainly didn't buy AIOs.

 

[rowspaxe]

Windows 10 is shocking. There is so much inconsistency with the 2 design styles and most of the time you are happily in the Metro side and get booted out to the Classic side... i.e to look at anything to do with the system... and all their metro apps are crippled beyond usability... even the Calender and email is terrible.

Reading this makes me deeply skeptical you have ever used Windows 10: what are you talking about?

 

[niun]

And Microsoft will need to do a great deal more, over a great deal more time, to make intelligent people move away from Apple.

Hmmm.. what level of intelligence?
I must be pretty (happily) dumb because MS snapped me up with the Surface Pro 3, 4 and now Surface Book..
If I can sneak it past my wife it looks like a Surface Studio will be sitting on my desk in the near future.

 

[ZZ9pluralZalpha]

If Apple announced a machine tomorrow with Fusion drive-equipped starting price of over $3,000, would the "why doesn't Apple innovate" contingent:
a) applaud them for "innovation", as they are Microsoft;
b) simply switch to their other favorite line about Hackintoshes costing half as much, Apple nickel-and-diming them for putting spinning rust in their machines...

 

[spiritlevel]

As a designer, I must say.... this is brilliant.

I would buy one today if it would run OS X.

Me too. I bought my first mac in 1995 - a Powermac 7200. In all the time since then I have never lusted after a single piece of Windows hardware or felt that Microsoft could ever even begin to compete with Apple. The idea of them being more innovative than Apple was simply laughable.

Today that changed.

Something like this running OSX and supporting the Apple pencil would truly be magical.

 

[Santabean2000]

Working hard to make tech thinner.

It's like the only thing that the crew at Apple remembers from Steve. Except, they've already solved that problem, and now, it seems like they don't know what else to do...

 

[sober2ndthought]

Reading this makes me deeply skeptical you have ever used Windows 10: what are you talking about?

He's confusing Windows 10 with Windows 8. Windows 8, I agree was an abomination. I don't even wanna start ranting about everything wrong with it. But Windows 10, I've used it both as a Tablet and as a Desktop, amazing OS.

 

[BootsWalking]

Yeah, and I guess all the people who are not Windows developers paying $800/year for a subscription are not worthy of privacy.

Apple has no problem selling their users' privacy to Google for $1 Billion/year. If you believe there are any saints in billion-dollar tech businesses then you're in for a bit of disappointment.

 

[usamaah]

The question is: can they innovate their way to a new business model? Competing with the OEMs on an ever-wider front is not going to end well; and they're aggressively going after the only part of the OEM's business that makes the OEM's any profit. So what's MS' end game here?

To push the OEMs to do better? If it means those companies that operate on razor thin margins and make cheap products get pushed out, that may be better for everyone, including Microsoft, so it can help get those products that help to push the narrative that Windows products suck out of the market.

 

[0388631]

Err, no, we don't need another wave of cheap $500 laptops that can do about **** all.

 

[sober2ndthought]

Let me me play devil's advocate for a moment here.

I understand that my political views (which can be summed up as "total surveillance of everything ever is a good idea") might color my perception, but... why do you care so much about Microsoft gathering usage data from your consumer operating system on you consumer laptop that you use for watching Netflix?

Surely you use Facebook, Google, YouTube, right?
Those do the same.

If you need to comply with specific regulations for your business, buy Enterprise.
If you just want to go full tinfoil, just install Trisquel Linux on a LibreBoot laptop

Three Examples:

1. If I was a Lawyers, Medical Professions, or something similar, everything I do is privileged and most of the software I use is only released on Windows. I have to protect the client's information. Maybe my office is to small for volume licensing, so then what? Am I unintentionally violate privilege? what kind of consequences could my client face for violating privilege? What if one of my clients was an employee of Microsoft? What if someone got into Microsoft servers and posted that information online, is it now admissible?

2. What if I want to run for Political Office or challenge the government on something, do I want Microsoft, Apple, Google or whoever to be able to blackmail by bringing up my browsing history and have them force me to pursue only policies which make them happy.

3. What if I am hiding from someone, do I want them to be able to bribe an employee at the company to gain access to my information including private details like where I have been (check your iPhone/Android phone location tracker, every phone has it), or what kind of things I am interested in or what my schedule is? How about this, what if the person I was hiding from works at one of the above companies in an area where that company has monopoly.

 

[GabrielMoro]

I gotta say that the presentation is quite amazing. The energy, the excitement reminds me of Jobs's presentations. I'm impressed! (Check it on techcrunch)

 

[Rigby]

I understand that my political views (which can be summed up as "total surveillance of everything ever is a good idea") might color my perception, but... why do you care so much about Microsoft gathering usage data from your consumer operating system on you consumer laptop that you use for watching Netflix?

Not that it matters, but I use the so-called "professional" version of Windows 10 (which is the most that individuals and small businesses can get). Besides, I do have sensitive personal data on my computer, such as my personal finances, documents, photos etc. And no, I don't use it to watch Netflix (have an Apple TV for that) and I don't play games.

You seem to be saying that consumers should not have any expectation of privacy when using their own computer with the operating system they paid for? If so, I could not disagree more.

Surely you use Facebook, Google, YouTube, right?

Actually no, I don't use Facebook and I don't log in when using Google or Youtube (I have a Google account but rarely use it). But this is also besides the point. First, just because some other company violates my privacy doesn't make it OK for another to do so as well. Second, it's one thing to collect data from people who voluntarily use a free online service; it's another to embed what is effectively spyware in an operating system that I pay for and cannot realistically avoid using.

 

[JoeG4]

I almost feel like it's game over for the mac. Almost. Apple is ignoring all of their mac customers now.

Me too. I bought my first mac in 1995 - a Powermac 7200. In all the time since then I have never lusted after a single piece of Windows hardware or felt that Microsoft could ever even begin to compete with Apple. The idea of them being more innovative than Apple was simply laughable.

Today that changed.

Something like this running OSX and supporting the Apple pencil would truly be magical.

 

[villicodelirant]

Two Examples:

1. If I was a Lawyers, Medical Professions, or something similar, everything I do is privileged. I have to protect the user's information. Maybe my office is to small for volume licensing, so then what?

In that case you buy a Pro or Enterprise license, or use a different operating system.
You'll also want to hire an IT consultant to make sure everything is compliant.

2. What if I want to run for Political Office or challenge the government on something, do I want Microsoft, Apple, Google or whoever to be able to blackmail by bringing up my browsing history and have them force me to pursue only policies things which make them happy.

In that case you buy a Pro or Enterprise license, or use a different operating system.
If you are running for office, you'll also want your IT manager to teach you the basics of safe computing and your staff will tell you what not to do when you are not in front of a computer (it's a long list).

The idea of "challenging the government" wouldn't have my support, but if you are onew of those guys, it's Trisquel all the way.

3. What if I am hiding from someone, do I want them to be able to bribe an employee at the companies to gain access to my information including private details like where I have been (check your iPhone/Android phone location tracker, every phone has it), or what kind of things I am interested in? What my schedule is etc.

In that case you buy a Pro or Enterprise license, or use a different operating system.
You also avoid connecting to the internet altogether.

 

[DmASkater]

Apple has been asleep for quite some time now. Cook is hopeless. Maybe they will wake up this century!!!

 

[Rigby]

Apple has no problem selling their users' privacy to Google for $1 Billion/year.

Even if that was the case (which it isn't), I can choose to use another search engine in Safari. But I cannot choose to turn off the telemetry in Windows 10.

 

[nfable]

Man, those Macs are looking BOSS!

 

[villicodelirant]

Not that it matters, but I use the so-called "professional" version of Windows 10 (which is the most that individuals and small businesses can get).

IANAL but then you are probably already complying with the relevant regulations in your country, if you have set everything else up correctly.

You seem to be saying that consumers should not have any expectation of privacy when using their own computer with the operating system they paid for? If so, I could not disagree more.

I am saying that consumers should expect what it says on the can, no more and no less.

In particular, if you don't see the source of a program, you should reasonably expect anything to happen unless it's clearly stated otherwise on the box.

That also goes for Apple and any other company selling you a disc with a binary blob on it.

Second, it's one thing to collect data from people who voluntarily use a free online service; it's another to embed what is effectively spyware in an operating system that I pay for and cannot realistically avoid using.

You can realistically avoid using it and you definitely should avoid it if you are not comfortable with sending usage data.
I know I would avoid it if I had a reason to.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Windows 10 is shocking. There is so much inconsistency with the 2 design styles and most of the time you are happily in the Metro side and get booted out to the Classic side... i.e to look at anything to do with the system... and all their metro apps are crippled beyond usability... even the Calender and email is terrible.

Reading this makes me deeply skeptical you have ever used Windows 10: what are you talking about?

Right? I think prowlmedia thinks Windows 8 is Windows 10. "Metro side" in Windows 10????????

 

[Rigby]

In that case you buy a Pro or Enterprise license

You seem to assume that the telemetry can be turned off in the Pro version. But it can't.

 

[Black Magic]

Yeah, Thats why I get the "Expensive" argument. it's damn expensive.

But, it's not (at least imho) overpriced. For $3,000 it's the only (that I know of) all in one computer with that high a resolution display, that also features a full computer in it, active digitizer, 10 point capacitive touch screen. One fo the bigegst mistakes most people in this thread are doing is comparing it to standard touchscreens you might find on standard laptops. It is not and features a lot more tech in a lot larger size than just about anyone else currently has.

expensive yes. Overpriced? not really.

also Version 1.0 products also tend to be very expensive until the manufacturing costs can come down from increased volumes.

It is overpriced and you are falling into the consumerism trap of trying to justify it in your mind. Clearly Microsoft is copying Apple's playbook to the tee. Quality design, check! Outdated components, check! High margins, cha-ching!

I'm not a fan of windows so it's a non-starter for me. You can put syrup on poop, but that doesn't make it pancakes!

 

[villicodelirant]

You seem to assume that the telemetry can be turned off in the Pro version. But it can't.

Then avoid the Pro version as well.
In fact, you have no real way of knowing what Enterprise does as well - or any piece of software you don't compile yourself from source.

I swear I really don't see the problem.

If you have a reason to be paranoid be paranoid.
If you don't have a reason to be paranoid don't.

It's clear that Windows 10 doesn't try to fit Trisquel's or OpenBSD's niche, it's a (very) general purpose operating system.
If you have special needs you need equally special software.

 

[BootsWalking]

Even if that was the case (which it isn't), I can choose to use another search engine in Safari. But I cannot choose to turn off the telemetry in Windows 10.

Isn't the case? https://www.bloomberg.com/news/arti...-apple-1-billion-to-keep-search-bar-on-iphone

Quote from the article:

"The revenue-sharing agreement reveals the lengths Google must go to keep people using its search tool on mobile devices. It also shows how Apple benefits financially from Google’s advertising-based business model that Chief Executive Officer Tim Cook has criticized as an intrusion of privacy."

Looks like Apple's public position on its users' privacy is a bit different than what it negotiates privately behind closed doors, where it makes billions for selling its users out.

Glad you can change your browser. Millions of other iPhone users don't know how to or wont bother even if they did, which is what both Apple and Google are counting on to keep the privacy-invading $$$ largess coming in. So much for Apple caring about its users' privacy.

And I turned off telemetry on my Windows 10 installation.