Microsoft Executive Says iPad Pro Was Apple's Response to Surface

[huperniketes]

Riiiiight... and Apple is "not" why you guys got into designing your own computer hardware, creating the MS Surface, the Windows phone, and an all-in-one desktop (Surface Studio).

Actually, the first Microsoft Surface product, the interactive table now branded PixelSense, was introduced before the iPhone. Its development began at the start of the millennium.

 

[cmaier]

It is not a copy. Not a direct copy at least. When the iPad was released, several companies copied it and created their own tablets. Then Microsoft took several of these years ideas and created a tablet which turns into a laptop. It is a copy of the trend launched by Apple and not a copy of the iPad itself. Btw, Apple does this kind of thing as well.

Sure, but the point is apple created the category, and now everyone is just riffing on it.

 

[H2SO4]

It's so weird. When I switched from iOS to android everyone who used android told me that for any iOS app I had there were five free android versions that did the same thing. So I switched, and yeah, I found apps that did everything my iOS apps did. The thing is, what Android fans don't want to tell you is that they all suck. Sure, I can do everything on my Android that I could do on my iPhone, I just don't want to.

Whilst I take your point this is a ‘Laptop’. This means that if you want to you can run Windows, Linux, and if you’re clever enough - OSX. I’d hazard a guess that you can even run most of the iOS apps in a simulator if you really wanted to.

 

[Bubble99]

Windows 10 has improved tremendously since it was first introduced. It adapts to the hardware in a way iOS and OSX has not. I can run the current release of Windows 10 on a 6 year old Lenovo i5-2400 powered notebook and it won't petrify the poor thing. The GUI's between the Surface and other brand notebooks and desktops are identical - unlike Apple's iOS and OSX products.

Don't be fooled and lulled into thinking Microsoft produces 2nd rate products. They are a far cry from the stagnant Ballmer days.

Tell me when iOS can have number apps running at the same time and full multitasking and where you can go file save as and save it on device, USB thumb drive, external hard-drive, other drive, network , cloud so on. Than we can start calling it OS. This what OS does not save it to app.

It seem iOS 11 is step in this direction. May be in two or three years from now iOS will be more like full OS than this mini OS crap that look same and NOT much changed when first iPad came out.

No one is asking it to look like windows 7 or Mac OS-X cause those OS's are built for mouse, keyboard and trackpad.

Give better management of files, saving files, multitasking and running different apps so on so it more like full OS.

Windows 10 has improved tremendously since it was first introduced. It adapts to the hardware in a way iOS and OSX has not. I can run the current release of Windows 10 on a 6 year old Lenovo i5-2400 powered notebook and it won't petrify the poor thing. The GUI's between the Surface and other brand notebooks and desktops are identical - unlike Apple's iOS and OSX products.

Don't be fooled and lulled into thinking Microsoft produces 2nd rate products. They are a far cry from the stagnant Ballmer days.

I never like those detachable keyboard on those hybrid laptops tablets Apple competitor have . I like harder firm laptop like Macbook pro where I can hold laptop on my lap and type. And like trackpad than always touching the screen when using the computer for hours.

I also fear over time that attaching the keyboard and detaching the keyboard all the time some piece or contact may break off.
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Uhm.... he better get his facts straight. Apple and most people don't think a 2-in-1 is a good idea. We don't touch laptop screens. And don't want to.

No they are not there yet. I have seen these hybrid laptops tablets!! That is what they are they are not a laptop and not tablet but some thing in middle.

But I feel that the new tablets and new iPro with iOS 11 they getting there well there yet when comes to laptops can do. May be in two or three years from now they strike gold.

To me my primary device is laptop but new iPad pro with iOS 11 look awesome. It step in right direction Apple is taking making the iPad Pro more pro like and more like a full OS than mini OS.

 

[zoomos]

If the iPad Pro was the response to the Surface, they failed because the Surface (Not RT, that was bad) is a full fledged operating system in a tablet, Apple was beat to the punch and calling something pro doesn't make it so. The surface is not even considered Pro and it's a lot more advanced the the iPad Pro.

 

[cmaier]

If the iPad Pro was the response to the Surface, they failed because the Surface (Not RT, that was bad) is a full fledged operating system in a tablet, Apple was beat to the punch and calling something pro doesn't make it so. The surface is not even considered Pro and it's a lot more advanced the the iPad Pro.

I guess it depends on what you mean by "advanced."

 

[skaertus]

Sure, but the point is apple created the category, and now everyone is just riffing on it.

Apple actually did not create the "tablet" category. It existed long before Apple released the iPad. What Apple did was launch a product that put this category into relevance and suddenly lots of people wanted to launch their own as well.

But this happens all the time. Apple did not invent the convertibles. Companies such as Microsoft, Samsung or Asus came much before it. But then Apple released the iPad Pro, with a keyboard and an Apple Pencil (just to avoid calling it pen), which is a step towards the iPad becoming a hybrid.

 

[cmaier]

Apple actually did not create the "tablet" category. It existed long before Apple released the iPad. What Apple did was launch a product that put this category into relevance and suddenly lots of people wanted to launch their own as well.

But this happens all the time. Apple did not invent the convertibles. Companies such as Microsoft, Samsung or Asus came much before it. But then Apple released the iPad Pro, with a keyboard and an Apple Pencil (just to avoid calling it pen), which is a step towards the iPad becoming a hybrid.

Stop being pedantic. I already acknowledged that I owned a windows tablet prior to iPad, and I made the point that tablets as we know them today look nothing like pre-iPad tablets. They were laptops without keyboards, with poorly implemented pen-only touch or resistive touch. Thick, usually with fans, and with UIs that basically had no thought given to tablet use.

The category we know today as "tablets" all stems from iPad.

 

[uburoibob]

As for Microsoft following Apple? "We don't really look at Apple," said Gavin.

Article Link: Microsoft Executive Says iPad Pro Was Apple's Response to Surface

LOL!!!! That's the funniest thing I've heard since a morning tweet!

 

[huperniketes]

Stop being pedantic. I already acknowledged that I owned a windows tablet prior to iPad, and I made the point that tablets as we know them today look nothing like pre-iPad tablets. They were laptops without keyboards, with poorly implemented pen-only touch or resistive touch. Thick, usually with fans, and with UIs that basically had no thought given to tablet use.

The category we know today as "tablets" all stems from iPad.

Not so. Earlier devices in the evolution of the tablet category included some with "pen-centric" (not exclusive) system architecture, which still had keyboards. And their bulk and fans were more often than not a consequence of the limited technology of the times than immature design philosophies. While Apple's hardware aesthetics may have caught on with Microsoft and other manufacturers, its UI principles still have not.

 

[cmaier]

Not so. Earlier devices in the evolution of the tablet category included some with "pen-centric" (not exclusive) system architecture, which still had keyboards. And their bulk and fans were more often than not a consequence of the limited technology of the times than immature design philosophies. While Apple's hardware aesthetics may have caught on with Microsoft and other manufacturers, its UI principles still have not.

My wife had two windows tablets. One a convertible. Both used pens. In both cases they were regular old windows with weak-ass pen support bolted on.

The devices which pen integrated properly (e.g. Newton) and not as an afterthought were glorified pdas and nothing like iPad.

If you can't admit that the whole tablet category changed completely with the release of iPad you are lying.

 

[Bubble99]

I realize I may get attacked in this forum for saying this, but you and many others here are missing the point. In 2012 when the first Surface came out, Microsoft was banking on the long-term market turning toward a productivity-focused, mobile, convertible touch device, complete with local file system and highlighting the ability of having keyboard/stylus/mouse input. Apple eschewed that idea, laughing at Microsoft and accusing them of building "refrigerator-toasters". They balked at the idea of making their iPad tablet like that, saying it was fundamentally what a tablet SHOULDN'T be.

Now 5 years later in 2017, they're pursuing that exact vision - the iPad is slowly being changed into a "refrigerator-toaster" itself, complete with local file system and highlighting keyboard/stylus input (they're still avoiding mouse - gotta try to save face somewhere). And they hope no one notices that they are following the real leader.

The fact that the iPad still enjoys a large customer loyalty base from its early days, guaranteeing significant sales, is irrelevant - Microsoft had the long-term vision right. Even if Apple wins the market, some of us will never forget the hubris of a company that will always have "refrigerator-toaster" egg on their face.

The problem is when the first iPad came out and iOS came out it was like your where in future!! It was awesome!! What happen over the years is Android, Microsoft and other makes built on this idea and innovated. Apple did minor updates.

Now the tablet hype is over. People say I don't need tablet anymore!!! I will just get bigger smartphone now because smartphone are bigger and get ultrabook. Now the tablet hype is over.

And Android, Microsoft and other makes said that make tablet some thing more!! Yes running two apps at one time, better multitasking, file manger, more than one user accounts, S-pen and keyboard so on.

What did Apple do? Bring out colorful iPhones and iPads and different sizes of iPhones and iPads!! Well Android, Microsoft and other makes where innovating.

Than Apple said yap we got to catch up to get back to sales like before and reclaim that hype.

When the first iPad and iOS came out came out it was awesome!! But nothing really changed over the yeas. Apple had 7 years to work on to make iOS more like full even close to 70% full OS or even give people more features that these other platforms had.

At least for first time iOS 11 shows that Apple came out of cave and is catching up to where everyone else been for long time.

 

[bunnicula]

Microsoft copies Apple's iPad, because their tablets all suck.
Microsoft decides to add a keyboard case and Windows.
Apple creates a more powerful version of iPad to make it easier for people to use it like a laptop, if they can.

Apple is copying Microsoft?

LOL. That's kinda cute. Awww... Microsoft. You amuse me.

 

[ElQben]

Neither one does what "normal' people actually want their laptop to do. The Surface runs a full-boat Os that is overkill for most tasks, and in many cases lacks "good" access to the mobile ecosystems people love. The iPad Pro, has good access to the mobile apps, but because it can't window like a real PC, and can't really use a mouse/track-pad like one, there is little reason to use it over a phablet. Microsoft already learned the painful lesson that there is no good "middle ground" between consumption and productivity...which is why they had to scrap Windows 8. Apple is apparently going to learn this lesson in reverse. I believe the thin people would actually want is something that works like an iPad, when you want it to, and like a desktop when you want it to, but not at the same time (different "modes") and always with full access to the mobile Apps the love, whether i be in windowed mode, or full-screen tablet mode. This is the reason why things like PhoenixOS and Samsung DeX exist.

 

[Bubble99]

Not so. Earlier devices in the evolution of the tablet category included some with "pen-centric" (not exclusive) system architecture, which still had keyboards. And their bulk and fans were more often than not a consequence of the limited technology of the times than immature design philosophies. While Apple's hardware aesthetics may have caught on with Microsoft and other manufacturers, its UI principles still have not.

The reason Apple beat Microsoft is because Microsoft was giving tablet running windows XP a OS built for mouse and keyboard and small icons and small menu bar where mouse pointer goes. It was not touch user friendly and S-pen was crap.

It lacked App store not hundreds and hundreds of apps at app store. Microsoft was not in the hardware business and had no way of pushing this along with hundreds and hundreds of apps and proper OS to go with it.

Apple nailed it!! But like all hardware and software that evolve Apple been stagnating and now playing catch up.
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Neither one does what "normal' people actually want their laptop to do. The Surface runs a full-boat Os that is overkill for most tasks, and in many cases lacks "good" access to the mobile ecosystems people love. The iPad Pro, has good access to the mobile apps, but because it can't window like a real PC, and can't really use a mouse/track-pad like one, there is little reason to use it over a phablet. Microsoft already learned the painful lesson that there is no good "middle ground" between consumption and productivity...which is why they had to scrap Windows 8. Apple is apparently going to learn this lesson in reverse. I believe the thin people would actually want is something that works like an iPad, when you want it to, and like a desktop when you want it to, but not at the same time (different "modes") and always with full access to the mobile Apps the love, whether i be in windowed mode, or full-screen tablet mode. This is the reason why things like PhoenixOS and Samsung DeX exist.

What Microsoft needs to do is build bigger icons and menu bar and menu select for touch user friendly and better pen support.

Call it windows 10 mobile.

Than with toggle off switch or one icon press go into desktop mode for the keyboard and mouse.

When booting up giving option windows 10 mobile or windows 10 desktop.

A OS is going look and feel very different for keyboard and mouse than a touch user friendly and better pen support.

But both OS should allow running more than one app, switching between apps, file management, user accounts and some thing like mission control a pro features.

 

[huperniketes]

My wife had two windows tablets. One a convertible. Both used pens. In both cases they were regular old windows with weak-ass pen support bolted on.

The devices which pen integrated properly (e.g. Newton) and not as an afterthought were glorified pdas and nothing like iPad.

You're unfamiliar with the history of pen computing.

Windows tablets such as the Tablet PC models you had were later generations of Microsoft's efforts in pen-enabled OSes, which included Windows for Pen Computing. Indeed, pen support was bolted onto Windows to stave off competition from Go Corporation's PenPoint OS, which really was innovative and pen-centric.

You also don't seem to be aware of Apple's foray into this area with Inkwell, which was present in OSX from Jaguar until El Capitan.

 

[convergent]

I wonder what percentage of the people in this thread spouting off about the Surface line have actually ever used one? I've been an Apple fan for years and now using a Surface. The reality is that the iPad Pro is not really a suitable replacement for the laptop, and I don't think will be for many years if ever, for many professionals. The Surface is a much better laptop replacement for many.

Apple took a smartphone OS and put it in a tablet, and has been veerrryyyy slowly adding things to it to try and give it more "pro" features. But its still not suitable for much other than email, web browsing, etc.. If you want to get real work done... even something as simple as data analysis in spreadsheets, no one in the right mind would "prefer" to do it on an iPad vs. a device that you can attach a larger display to... and that runs full function apps.

Microsoft went the other way and took a desktop OS and put it in a tablet, and they have been incrementally improving it with each release. For real professional work, this is a better path.

Since SJ died, Apple has been slowly losing my interest. They are frankly very stubborn. They refuse to build a real hybrid device and force you to buy multiple devices to get the best of all worlds. A device that has a pointing device, touch, pen, and dial is a great thing.

For those that have criticized Microsoft's pen vs. Apple's pencil... I'm doubting you've touched one. The newest Microsoft pen is a extremely good. It is one of the most natural handwriting systems I've used; and best of all it works with full function apps, not the gimped versions of them.

I wanted ONE device to travel with that lets me bring the same machine I use on my desk with me on travel. The Surface Pro, and the vast number of similar products running Windows 10, does simply blow away in iPad for that purpose. If I traveled with an iPad, I'd still have to bring my laptop. With the Surface Pro, one device.

Microsoft just keeps refining the Surface line and its quite good now. Competition is a good thing. Its too bad that Apple continues to be stubborn about putting some logical things together and keep sticking to this idea that the iPad will replace a laptop. For many professionals, that is not happening.

 

[sos47]

regarding the OS: iOS is better than W10
regarding the PRO APPS: iOS has nearly nothing. W10 has everything.
my conclusion The winner is Surface. iPad Pro wins if it depends on macOS.

 

[FasterQuieter]

If that were true I think Apple would have put some effort into the 12.9". Reduced the weight/bezel. As they clearly didn't care to, I doubt the Surface was their target. They were improving upon themselves.

 

[Bubble99]

If that were true I think Apple would have put some effort into the 12.9". Reduced the weight/bezel. As they clearly didn't care to, I doubt the Surface was their target. They were improving upon themselves.

No Apple did not do that because new iPhone is going be bezel, very thin and AMOLED not to say wireless charging. And make wow factor for the new iPhone when it comes out. Why would Apple bring out iPad base on iPhone 8 spects!!

Next year wait you see all new iPads base on the new iPhone.

It just that Apple can't have two plaforms cross and when apple bringing out new phone can't have other tech showing it what it would be like.

 

[Keirasplace]

regarding the OS: iOS is better than W10
regarding the PRO APPS: iOS has nearly nothing. W10 has everything.
my conclusion The winner is Surface. iPad Pro wins if it depends on macOS.

It has "everything" as a laptop, it has less than nothing as a tablet, so why the hell are they selling this as a ****** tablet OS huh with NO APPS then huh?

Also, the "everything" depends on you defining PRO in the way you see fit, (it is YOUR FRAMING and nothing else), not on full breadth of actual professional use.

 

[iMi]

All this hate towards Microsoft. iPad pales in comparison to the Surface. If anyone takes the time to really compare the two. Really try both. They will likely reach the same conclusion. I like Apple. But Microsoft has made an awesome device and we should recognize that. You don't punch your opponent in the face if they win the game, even if you're ahead in the series. You shake hands and say " nice work, congrats." Onto the next match... bring your best game!

It's okay for Microsoft to have a better tablet hybrid at the moment. I appreciate the competition.

 

[MH01]

I'll give them that, the iPad got a stylus while iOS prevented any direct comparisons to the surface, it was all markerting spin after that.

File access in iOS 11 is a step forward.

And the surface was a responce to the iPad.

I've tried the surface, was not for me, for some it might be great. The iPad is best in class for what it is, consumption device. Content production, iPad is very poor in my opinion. A laptop is still very much the most efficient, practical and versatile tool . The whole marketing spin that the iPad Pro is a pc replacement is bollocks, hardware wise you could stretch the truth but not iOS, which cripples it as a PC replacement. As I don't draw My iPhone can do 99% of what my iPad Pro can ....so my iPhone is a PC replacement.... meh

Apple could do a surface killer , though they will not , they will just continue to enhance and improve by the smallest amounts the iPad that came from the jobs era. Do not expect a revolutionary Device from apple . Homepod is copying the competition and applehifi- that was a flop by the way....some should read up on apple hifi, history could very well repeat. People are not after a speaker these days...
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All this hate towards Microsoft. iPad pales in comparison to the Surface. If anyone takes the time to really compare the two. Really try both. They will likely reach the same conclusion. I like Apple. But Microsoft has made an awesome device and we should recognize that. You don't punch your opponent in the face if they win the game, even if you're ahead in the series. You shake hands and say " nice work, congrats." Onto the next match... bring your best game!

It's okay for Microsoft to have a better tablet hybrid at the moment. I appreciate the competition.

Sound advice. Though many here just read the headline , and have not tried a Microsoft product for decades , so they would never appreciate the improvements or even analyse the situation to compare the current state.

Competition is great, at home I run apple , Microsoft and android ...... amazon.... had apple been the best I'd have no need for the others . Choose the best tech for the job I say.

 

[Lerxt]

the surface pro and the surface book in particular is a much better corporate device. there are people switching to them over laptops. an ipad pro is still a complimentary device. that's the truth. iOS is very limiting. great for an iPad but i wish they had gone mac os for the pro version.

Airlines are abandoning IPads for crew in droves. Even under profile control you cannot suppress IOS updates, most of which brick critical operational software. I have run a program for a major airline and we suffered from this issue and moved to the surface.

 

[Abazigal]

Not necessarily a bad thing. Apple basically took many things that were wrong with the surface pro and improved on them.

For me, I like that my iPad runs ios, not macOS. This ensures a wide library of apps, that the apps are optimised for touch, and relatively inexpensive. I like the writing experience afforded by the Apple Pencil and how the apps play nice with my iPhone.

For me, the iPad is the perfect compromise of portability, ease of use and battery life. If Microsoft wants to accuse someone else of copying them, they would do well to first ensure their own offering is better than what the competition is offering and how they are faring. Else, it just makes you look like a sore loser.