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"As for Microsoft following Apple? "We don't really look at Apple," said Gavin."

Every company looks at their competition. Microsoft wanted a full line of computers, looked at Apple and took a different approach. Gotta give them props for that.

Yes. Well, Microsoft is following Apple in saying things like this. Apple was perhaps the first tech company to take this "posh" approach of saying they are so good that they are not even looking at the competition. Perhaps it helps to sell more devices, or for a higher price.

Microsoft, Apple, Google... they all look at each other, and to other companies as well. And they copy each other, but desperately try to make it in a way people think they are being original.

"You're ripping us off!", Steve shouted, raising his voice even higher. "I trusted you, and now you're stealing from us!"

But Bill Gates just stood there coolly, looking Steve directly in the eye, before starting to speak in his squeaky voice.

"Well, Steve, I think there's more than one way of looking at it. I think it's more like we both had this rich neighbor named Xerox and I broke into his house to steal the TV set and found out that you had already stolen it."
 
I am a big fan of Apple's design. macBook is the most beautiful laptop, iMac is the most beautiful desktop for me. IPhone too. BUT!!! I have to admit that Surface is a lot more stunning than an iPad. I think it is a better looking product, it has a real OS and ports. I like it a lot
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the surface pro and the surface book in particular is a much better corporate device. there are people switching to them over laptops. an ipad pro is still a complimentary device. that's the truth. iOS is very limiting. great for an iPad but i wish they had gone mac os for the pro version.
Agree with you! I am not able to use an iPad as a single corporate devise and yet I can do it with Surface. I saw an intereting picture in a meeting this week. There was one guys with a laptop and an iPad Pro 12"...he was using one of the other. There were several people with the Surface Pro and they onlu used the Surface Pro:)
 
Microsoft have pretty much nailed the hardware. Win10 is what they have to look at. Finish work on their own apps so that they become touch friendly ( I am looking at you, control panel). Issue guidelines and publish frameworks to developers to make it easier to build touch friendly apps. And lastly, fix Defender so that it does not hamper battery life.

And one more thing, if a user uninstalls Candy Crush crapware and the likes, he really means it. So don't install it again without his permission. Don't need ads either
 
What are those "apps" (how I hate that word)?

And all Android "apps" suck? Really?

In my experience, all major "apps" are exactly the same on Android and the iPhone (Oh! To be a real pretentious douche, we have to say "the same on Android and iPhone". Sorry, Timmy!)

What are Apps? It is short for application. It's sort of like a program, except it also includes a user interface. It's pretty common in tech circles to use abreviated terms. Or are you just saying that you hate this one term because... what? Is it because it is mainstream? Because it is used for marketing? Because you hate Apple, and Apple promotes the word?

All android apps suck? No, just the ones that try to do something complex that a paid app (sorry, application) does for free. And the ones that think that you can just port the app across platforms and everything is good. And the ones that try to include ads or IAP with a platform because they think they can get away it in one store but no the other. And the ones that try to do it right, and develop for both, but don't have the resources and thus one platform is always far behind in development.

Two parts to your rude comment. One, I wasn't talking about major "apps". I was talking about the free apps that people claim are as good as the iPhone apps that I already paid for. People use free apps on android as a selling point of the platform. Those apps are not the same, and they don't do the platform any justice. Two, even when you do look at "major" apps they are still not the same. These apps are typically both good (or both suck) but still different. Even the Facebook and OneNote apps aren't the same between iOS and Android. It's pretty simple to understand why that makes one worse. If you don't have the the money and time to build on two platforms one or both suffers. If you do have the time and money to leverage the benifits of each platform then one of them is going to end up being better because it they have access to API's that make the experience with that app more enjoyable.

TL;DR? The only time applications on Android and iOS are the same is when neither app is flushed out well enough to really take advantage of the platform they are on.
 
Wow...You seriously think that the reason that the marketplace is 90% PC is because of price? I am guessing you have not entered the workforce yet to make such a crazy statement.

I'm coming up on age 60 ... I've been in 'the workforce' for 42 years. Compatibility is in the eye of the beholder; I know of medical offices running their office software on OS X. In my experience, almost everyone in the business world (Fortune 1000 and above) is focused on per-machine cost rather than functionality, productivity or 'compatibility.'
 
Let make it real clear here... Apple is not responding to any MS products in anyway!

Apple made the Macbook Air and the iPad a longgggggg time before MS made the Surface product lines....
So if you ask me... it's MS that's "responding" and copying Apple's stuffs.

The guy actually had the ball to say "We're not looking at Apple"... LMFAO!!!
 
the surface pro and the surface book in particular is a much better corporate device. there are people switching to them over laptops. an ipad pro is still a complimentary device. that's the truth. iOS is very limiting. great for an iPad but i wish they had gone mac os for the pro version.

Let's not kid ourselves, the surface book IS a laptop. The surface pro, of which I've owned every iteration, is hardly a tablet. I won't use it without a mouse. I chose the Surface Pro for work because I rarely have to take it out of my bag, but if I need something in a pinch, it's there. Otherwise, I prefer to use my desktop for heavy lifting and the iPad for personal use as a tablet. I'm looking at the Pro now, but I don't consider that a replacement for my Surface Pro either...it will still be for leisure and my artistic hobbies.
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Let make it real clear here... Apple is not responding to any MS products in anyway!

Apple made the Macbook Air and the iPad a longgggggg time before MS made the Surface product lines....
So if you ask me... it's MS that's "responding" and copying Apple's stuffs.

The guy actually had the ball to say "We're not looking at Apple"... LMFAO!!!

I'm sure there's a little line blurring in both of those statements. However, it has been proven that MS looked to the Air for inspiration then used it as the example to show their partners what types of hardware they should be making. That spawned the Ultrabook.
 
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I'm coming up on age 60 ... I've been in 'the workforce' for 42 years. Compatibility is in the eye of the beholder; I know of medical offices running their office software on OS X. In my experience, almost everyone in the business world (Fortune 1000 and above) is focused on per-machine cost rather than functionality, productivity or 'compatibility.'

I wouldn't say that's true, or we'd be seeing chromebooks in the workplace. Most of the business world sees the costs from the compatibility standpoint, not just the machines though that is part of the equation. If you gave everyone Macs, your costs can escalate quickly when you have to ditch any legacy infrastructure that doesn't work with Mac.
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more rivalry we see - the better products we have.. consumers are the winners!

This was true in the mid-1900's, but that competition makes better products jargon almost never applies anymore.
 
We all know Apple has taken previously expressed ideas and plussed them, thereby taking them over. The question here is, is the iPad pro ecosystem better. I'd say not enough to replace a computer. If I had to choose, I'd go Surface. But I choose neither.
 
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The surface has one good purpose, to offer desktop apps in a tablet form factor. It's a necessarily compromised experience to provide this. It does a job at this, when people buy it with this as a purpose. A lot of owners swear by theirs. I find it usable with caveats.

But if it's being measured tablet for tablet, it doesn't measure up to an iPad in any way. I don't think anyone is listening to Microsoft's marketing, any more than we listen to Apple's marketing at times.
 
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I tried their new Surface Pro yesterday. The tablet experience is terrible. It's really heavy, and poking at tiny screen elements designed for a mouse or a trackpad is no fun. And then, for use as a laptop, the keyboard is second-rate, the trackpad is third-rate. I assume the same is true for the stylus relative to the Apple pen.

The only positive I could see might be for graphic artists working in Photoshop or Illustrator who have the option to switch from trackpad to pen in some contexts. But that's within the overall context of the laptop and tablet experiences being terribly compromised.

On top of that, Apple still leads in quality and innovation. Retina screens, true tone, and now ProMotion, Apple leads, others follow or not. In comparison, I don't think it's an innovation to try to combine two existing product lines, both of which Apple invented.

I cannot agree with your post.

The Surface Pro may not be a great tablet, but in my experience it is not terrible either. It weighs 1.73 lbs, which is just a little more than the 1.57 lbs of the 12.9-inch iPad Pro. What kind of apps do you use in a tablet that you find it so terrible to use in Surface Pro? As I see it, for web browsing, light text editing, watching movies and reading text, the Surface Pro may not be as good as an iPad, but it certainly can handle those tasks well. As for more advanced tasks, the laptop mode would perhaps be more suitable than a tablet in any case.

As for the laptop mode, I do not find it terrible either. The keyboard seems to be good, with reasonably good travel. Why is it second-rate? It feels better than many keyboards out there. The trackpad is small but very precise. It is much smaller but I found it as precise (or nearly as precise) as the trackpad in MacBooks. I simply cannot understand why you think it is third rate. Just because it is small?

As for the stylus, the new one seems to be as good as the new Apple Pencil. At least this is what reviewers say. I have not yet tested it, but there is no reason for this not to be true.

Apple leads and the others follow or not? Come on. Which two product lines did Apple invent? Apple did not invent laptops nor tablets (yes, it just followed what others did). You may love Apple with all your heart (although you shouldn't, as this is only another large company who wants your money), but you cannot be blind to the point of thinking it has the monopoly of innovation and leadership.

Apple really went through a great phase with the iMac, the iPod, the iPhone, the iPad and the MacBook Air. All these products set new standards which many in the industry tried to follow. Now, Apple is struggling to keep that significance it had in the past. The new Mac Pro, the Apple Watch, the iPad Pro; they are good, but they are not exactly industry standards that the competitors are copying.
 
Look at them touting themselves as visionary market leaders. What an absolute crock. Even on its best day, the Surface Pro is the epitome of "Jack of all trades". You can't use it just with the touchscreen because the interface is abysmal. Windows wasn't designed to be used with a finger, it was designed for a mouse and keyboard.

Agreed. As a tablet, it compromises. As a laptop it's good but not mind-blowing, so chill.
 
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Upcoming Windows on ARM will kill the iPad Pro and some of the Macbooks. It also has the advantage of lower BOM cost by several hundred dollars. Wait for the comment at the end where she says it runs better with only 4GB DRAM than her Macbook (assuming 8GB).

Didn't watch it, pointless. Its still windoz no thanks.
 
There are many professions in the world, not all professionals in all profession worlds need that extreme amount of computing power you described.

Certain tech become standard at some point. Like lets say 4K video. So now iMovie needs to edit 4K video, GPU's needs to support / accelerate that, storage needs to increase to support the extra space the files take up, bus speeds need to increase to transfer the files at an acceptable rate, and so on and so on

He went a bit overboard with triple SLi with sod all supports. But he is right, Pro should mean something and an iPad with Apple's restrictions and a child like operating system is anything but Pro.

The screen is bigger though
 
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Where is a "True" professional tablet? Can I run 10 VMs on any tablet? Can I work on heavy 3D modeling? 4K or 8K footage?

This really needs to stop. Pro in a product name JUST MEANS better than the base model. THAT....IS......ALL.... Why are people thinking that JUST HAVING PRO in the name, means it will have the performance equivalent to 18-core CPU, 128GB of RAM, triple SLI of Quadro graphics cards, 10TBs of storage, and more? There ARE Pros that need that performance. People get SO WRAPPED up in stupid product names it is ridiculous!

PS4 to PS4 Pro. Can I run 10 VMs on PS4 Pro? Can I edit 4K or 8K footage? Can I do 3D modeling? BUT BUT BUT IT HAS PRO IN THE NAME!!!!

I seriously believe that EVERY SINGLE COMPANY should be banned from using the term Pro. The fact that SO MANY PEOPLE overreact to JUST A NAME is scary.

There can NEVER be a truly professional tablet or laptop according to some people. Not until we can have 18 cores, 128GB of RAM, triple dGPUs, 10TB of Storage. But when that happens, we will be on 32+ cores on the desktop and it will not be considered Pro then.
As a professional chef, I won't consider the iPad to be "Pro" until it's thin enough to slice tomatoes.
 
"As for Microsoft following Apple? "We don't really look at Apple," said Gavin."

This is either a bald faced lie, or if taken at face value INCREDIBLY stupid and naive. OF COURSE every tech company should look at each other. If you don't, you'll definitely lose.
 
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Certain tech become standard at some point. Like lets say 4K video. So now iMovie needs to edit 4K video, GPU's needs to support / accelerate that, storage needs to increase to support the extra space the files take up, bus speeds need to increase to transfer the files at an acceptable rate, and so on and so on

He went a bit overboard with triple SLi with sod all supports. But he is right, Pro should mean something and an iPad with Apple's restrictions and a child like operating system is anything but Pro.

The screen is bigger though

All I hear is blah blah, I think I'm a real pro and all other people are deluded, blah blah...
Your entitled to your opinion of course, but that's all this is.
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I wouldn't say that's true, or we'd be seeing chromebooks in the workplace. Most of the business world sees the costs from the compatibility standpoint, not just the machines though that is part of the equation. If you gave everyone Macs, your costs can escalate quickly when you have to ditch any legacy infrastructure that doesn't work with Mac.
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This was true in the mid-1900's, but that competition makes better products jargon almost never applies anymore.

IBM actually proved that all your saying is false, it's part of the MS narrative though so I guess you absorbed their spiel over all those years. Funny since that's the kind of narrative companies used to run with in the 1960s-1980s about IBM. Things have gone full circle.
 
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iPad Prodespite the name is not a product for the business, Surface is. Difference is the OS. I cannot use iPad as my only computer at work, but I can do it with Surface
 
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The overhyped 2-in-1 form factor that Microsoft created with the Surface Pro is a fad after all. I mean guess what MS released recently, the Surface laptop. That shows that in the end, if it runs windows, people want a laptop. All hipsters I see around me with the Surface Pros use it as a laptop 99% of the time. So might as well get a laptop.
 
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