Microsoft Executive Says iPad Pro Was Apple's Response to Surface

[cdmoore74]

the surface pro and the surface book in particular is a much better corporate device. there are people switching to them over laptops. an ipad pro is still a complimentary device. that's the truth. iOS is very limiting. great for an iPad but i wish they had gone mac os for the pro version.

Hopefully iOS 11 is just the beginning of the iPad transformation as a suitable laptop replacement both at home and the corporate environment. While the iOS version would be the same between iPhone and iPad I think in a few years it may have a totally different purpose between the 2 devices. On one hand maybe Apple should consider calling it iOS Pro for its tablets to truly set it apart from the casual user vs the Pro. But what happens to Mac OS? Will we see Mac OS and iOS combine to the point where iPad is truly Apple's entry level computer (which they consider already)?
Whatever Apple does keep it up. I bought my 10.5" partly because of iOS 11.

 

[Tech198]

It probably was a response to the Surface by bringing out iPad Pro, but I could say the same about thinnest..... Just wait, Microsoft will start loosing connectivity on the Surface soon because they see Apple is going the way of the cloud... and MS will say "Apple is right". just to make it thinner.

I always wondered "What else can a computer do"

Whatever Apple does keep it up. I bought my 10.5" partly because of iOS 11.

You only say that because its the first. It won't be long till all devices run iOS11. I personally wouldn't say that because its software. not hardware.... It you wanna use iOS 11 anyone can run it.. You don't need iPad Pro for it. except maybe for specific iOS11 only features that work "better on Pro/

 

[Bubble99]

Airlines are abandoning IPads for crew in droves. Even under profile control you cannot suppress IOS updates, most of which brick critical operational software. I have run a program for a major airline and we suffered from this issue and moved to the surface.

I'm sure what you mean can you elaborate on this.
[doublepost=1497777146][/doublepost]

Not necessarily a bad thing. Apple basically took many things that were wrong with the surface pro and improved on them.

For me, I like that my iPad runs ios, not macOS. This ensures a wide library of apps, that the apps are optimised for touch, and relatively inexpensive. I like the writing experience afforded by the Apple Pencil and how the apps play nice with my iPhone.

For me, the iPad is the perfect compromise of portability, ease of use and battery life. If Microsoft wants to accuse someone else of copying them, they would do well to first ensure their own offering is better than what the competition is offering and how they are faring. Else, it just makes you look like a sore loser.

But Microsoft keeps updating windows 10 every year to make it more touch user friendly. Well Microsoft still has long ways to go to make it true touch user friendly but they are making improvements every year.

 

[mrWONDERFUL]

Microsoft is a joke, they try so hard to be the cool kids. Do they forget years of failures at trying to bring a tablet to market? The surface is just an ugly cousin to an elegant Ipad. What ever happened to the windows phone, Kinect, DANGER, Nokia, Skype, Linkedin, The smart watch, or all the other countless stuff they have bought and done nothing with or run into the ground. Have they EVER had an original idea?

 

[nia820]

And apple failed. The iPad pro still lacks functionality.

 

[ValO]

Nobody really has to anymore. You fanboys can say whatever you want but Apple hasn't done anything revolutionary in years. All they do now is play catch up with everyone else.

Yes, that is why microsoft is always very agressive in their commercials and product releases, comparing their surface pro' s to ipads. Yes, they are definately not looking at apple.
With IOS 11, apple has made the first very big step in making the ipad a real laptop replacement for lots of people, without making compromises in the easy of use.
And it works with the ipad 2017, 330 us dollar ipad too ,for people on a budget.
So... apple playing catch up?
Come on..

 

[MH01]

Microsoft is a joke, they try so hard to be the cool kids. Do they forget years of failures at trying to bring a tablet to market? The surface is just an ugly cousin to an elegant Ipad. What ever happened to the windows phone, Kinect, DANGER, Nokia, Skype, Linkedin, The smart watch, or all the other countless stuff they have bought and done nothing with or run into the ground. Have they EVER had an original idea?

Microsoft is trying to be cool? Really? Do you know a company that focuses on fashion, emoji and purchasing the worst example of a wannabe cool brand in the form of beats. ?

Since jobs passing , what original ideas have apple come up with? They have killed Siri, killed the mac and just spent money on beats..... the beats purchase kinda kills your point completely , sorry . No one is trying to be cooler to the kids than apple.

Microsoft is off the radar compared to how much apple is trying to be cool...... Beats/Apple worst case ever if trying to hard to be cool....and damaging your own brand.

 

[skaertus]

Microsoft is a joke, they try so hard to be the cool kids. Do they forget years of failures at trying to bring a tablet to market? The surface is just an ugly cousin to an elegant Ipad. What ever happened to the windows phone, Kinect, DANGER, Nokia, Skype, Linkedin, The smart watch, or all the other countless stuff they have bought and done nothing with or run into the ground. Have they EVER had an original idea?

It is common for a company to have failures. Microsoft had its share of success as well, and Windows and Office proved to be incredibly successful. Microsoft experiments a lot, and some of these just do not work. But they still manage to be a profitable company because of its successes.

To be fair, Apple also had some failures. Apple released less products than Microsoft in the last 20 years, so it has a burden of making less mistakes. But the G4 Cube and Mobile Me were two reasonably recent Apple failures. The most recent Mac Pro is a beauty but also a failure. The iPad Mini is probably not selling as well as it was expected to; and it remains yet to be seen if new products such as the Apple Watch and the HomePod will end up being successes or failures.

As for originality, it is hard to say. None of these tech companies come up with products that are really original. They are all adaptations from something that was conceived in the past. Microsoft did not create the operating system, the word processor, the office suite, the laptop/tablet hybrid. Apple did not create the laptop, the all-in-one, the smartphone, the tablet, the smartwatch. These are all adaptations from conceptions that already existed. And all they added some creativity to it to make it better or more convenient or whatever.

Like it or not, Windows 8 was full of original ideas. The ribbon interface in Office. The kickstand in the Surface devices. The Surface Studio. The dial. Microsoft had some original ideas. And it is becoming a better company.

 

[sracer]

Sadly, as expected, this type of thread brings out the elementary schoolyard mindset in people. Tech versions of "oh yeah, my dad is stronger than yours!", "Flash Gordon would beat Tarzan in a fight", and "Nintendo is better than Sega".

The fact is that both companies have been doing things to advance mobile technologies... sometimes following their own vision, other times responding to the competition. In the end, these devices are as good as they are because of healthy competition *AND* people willing to jump to WHATEVER is best for them at the time they need it.

That's perhaps the most important element... customers willing to buy what best suites their needs at the time they need to purchase a product. Devoted fanboyism that buys inferior (for their needs) products from their favorite company because their favorite company isn't producing what they really need does NOT help advance things. The only language companies understand is "money". The effectiveness of letters and emails to the CEO of your favorite company pale in comparison to what you actually buy.

The most effective thing to do for those, myself included, who want Apple to produce a well designed converged device capable of functioning well as a tablet and a notebook is to.... buy a Surface. If everyone who wanted that, did that, Apple would listen. They always do. 7" tablets sold well? Apple's response: iPad Mini. Phablets sell well? Apple's response: iPhone 6+. 2-in-1 hybrids sales on the rise? Apple's response: iPad Pro. But the iPad Pro was a reluctant baby-step. Apple needs more to "listen" to... that means more money to the competition.

I still own and use a Surface 2 (not a Pro, but the much maligned 2nd gen Windows RT Surface) It's a nice little tablet... full permanent license for MS Office, plenty of ports and expandability, and in some respects, more "pro" than my 12.9 iPad Pro.

I plan on waiting to see how iOS 11 materializes. I have a feeling that "Files" in iOS 11 will not be what I (and some others) were hoping for, but it's early. Multitasking certainly looks to be greatly improved. The dock as well. Life is short. I'm not going to wait around 3-5 years for Apple to tip-toe to the converged device line. If that means having to switch ecosystems in the meantime, I will. But I'd rather that Apple simply jump in and do it.

 

[xer98]

Uh oh. Many long time MR readers heads will explode at this one. My how times have changed.

Where should we start? Maybe windows. That is a good start. More recent iPhone (changed not just Microsoft but the whole industry) iPad single handedly created a segment hence we have Surface (Very good indeed I own one). The list could go on. To be fair it is obvious on a competitive market that one manufacturer is looking at what the competition is doing and try to counter it. It would be foolish not to. To say that Microsoft is not looking at Apple is a stretch.

 

[6foot5foot]

Well of course they're going to say that...

Mock the iPad in TV ads, yet then take cues from the iPad in a "response"?

Yeah, no.
[doublepost=1497798209][/doublepost]

I don't know. We have sales guys returning Surface Pro in droves, because they work poorly compared to a Thinkpad. The same sales guys are all asking for the 12.9" iPad Pro, since it's easier in meetings and presentations than a Surface, and the Pencil works much better than the Surface Pen.

I have to admit, I LOVE ThinkPads. I have an old R61 in daily use, and an R500 and T430 fully working as spares.

 

[rowspaxe]

I wonder what percentage of the people in this thread spouting off about the Surface line have actually ever used one?

I am personally skeptical of many of the surface pro accounts provided here. Certainly alot of the windows hate is based on very limited experience. There doesn't seem to be much of learning curve to windows, but maybe it confused apple/ios users.

And what are the apps I am missing as a Surface user? What are the apps that provided functionality not provided on the Surface? Anything not available as a touch app is arguably better done as a on the desktop with a keyboard.

I am buying an ipad 10.5 pro. It is lighter, simpler--but does less. Its a great complementary device. I will buy some art apps and install office, mostly to review oneNote files. Thats it. The only app that has any appeal is imovie--for one stop fun video edits (yes, the 10.5 pro camera is useful)

 

[Smartass]

Whoever on this forums claims, that iPad Pro is NOT a response to Surface is clearly delusional.

 

[skaertus]

Sadly, as expected, this type of thread brings out the elementary schoolyard mindset in people. Tech versions of "oh yeah, my dad is stronger than yours!", "Flash Gordon would beat Tarzan in a fight", and "Nintendo is better than Sega".

The fact is that both companies have been doing things to advance mobile technologies... sometimes following their own vision, other times responding to the competition. In the end, these devices are as good as they are because of healthy competition *AND* people willing to jump to WHATEVER is best for them at the time they need it.

That's perhaps the most important element... customers willing to buy what best suites their needs at the time they need to purchase a product. Devoted fanboyism that buys inferior (for their needs) products from their favorite company because their favorite company isn't producing what they really need does NOT help advance things. The only language companies understand is "money". The effectiveness of letters and emails to the CEO of your favorite company pale in comparison to what you actually buy.

The most effective thing to do for those, myself included, who want Apple to produce a well designed converged device capable of functioning well as a tablet and a notebook is to.... buy a Surface. If everyone who wanted that, did that, Apple would listen. They always do. 7" tablets sold well? Apple's response: iPad Mini. Phablets sell well? Apple's response: iPhone 6+. 2-in-1 hybrids sales on the rise? Apple's response: iPad Pro. But the iPad Pro was a reluctant baby-step. Apple needs more to "listen" to... that means more money to the competition.

I still own and use a Surface 2 (not a Pro, but the much maligned 2nd gen Windows RT Surface) It's a nice little tablet... full permanent license for MS Office, plenty of ports and expandability, and in some respects, more "pro" than my 12.9 iPad Pro.

I plan on waiting to see how iOS 11 materializes. I have a feeling that "Files" in iOS 11 will not be what I (and some others) were hoping for, but it's early. Multitasking certainly looks to be greatly improved. The dock as well. Life is short. I'm not going to wait around 3-5 years for Apple to tip-toe to the converged device line. If that means having to switch ecosystems in the meantime, I will. But I'd rather that Apple simply jump in and do it.

I could not agree more. These are just companies, with shareholders, who want people to buy their products. And people keep buying the image and style they sell. Fanboyism, that is. It does not matter which product is superior. C'mon people, you are not supporting your favorite football team. You are actually spending real money on this thing.

Apple created such an image that it inspires fanboyism, and Microsoft is trying to do the same (but it does not help that Microsoft was demonized in the past). Some people take a dogmatic approach. Apple is good, and Microsoft is bad, it does not matter which products they make.

I think Apple's products are in general very well done, although I am disappointed at some things. The new MacBooks are incredibly well-built, for instance. But if the iPad does not turn into a real computer in the near future, I will end up giving it up in favor of Surface or something else.

Sure, the iPad makes a better tablet. And Apple does not want compromises, so it restricts what the iPad can do. So the experience is always the best possible.

But know what? Sometimes I have to do something, regardless of the experience being great or not. And it is very frustrating if Apple does not allow me to. For this reason I cannot count on having only the iPad with me. Now, I am getting tired of waiting for the iPad to become a real computer. It was released seven years ago, and Apple still takes baby steps towards making it a real laptop. How long am I suppose to keep waiting? The rest of my life?

Microsoft has a different approach. It embraces compromises, as long as the work gets done. But these compromises are less and less every year. The Surface Pro still has a lot of compromises, but perhaps I can live with them now. The iPad, on all its greatness and perfection, will not allow me to do what I must do, because otherwise it would not be so great and perfect. So, while I like all the experience of the iPad, perhaps I should not spend at least USD 650 on another one just to carry additional weight with me, as I cannot get rid of the laptop.

 

[Feenician]

Apple will never catch up to Microsoft in the tablet space until they add at least one more incongruent Control Panel and a calculator with a splash screen

 

[GizmoDVD]

The surface is not a great laptop OR tablet. Its a frankenstein of both that works for some people.

 

[bjeadeh]

I think everybody is ignoring the biggest, and in my opinion the only, issue with the Ipad Pro. That is the lack of ability to run Apple Mac software. I don't care that the OS is separate from one to the other, I just want to port Logic Pro, MainStage, Final Cut Pro, etc to my Ipad. The way I would like it to be is that I can work on some major projects on my Mac Pro, and simply port them over to the Ipad when on the go. Why is that such an issue? They have already done Pages, Numbers, and Keynote, but so has Microsoft with Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. As a matter of fact, I can also run those on my Ipad. Maybe it would behoove MS to start porting Apple and even Mac specific programs onto their Surface.

 

[huperniketes]

Sure, the iPad makes a better tablet. And Apple does not want compromises, so it restricts what the iPad can do. So the experience is always the best possible.

That isn't why Apple restricts what the iPad can do. It restricts what the iPad can do so sales of low-end Mac laptops aren't cannibalized by their tablets. Just like they only let the Apple Watch unlock Macs on El Capitan and Sierra instead of the iPhone or iPad. Just like they require you to use the Apple TV for the HomeKit hub, unless they've changed that policy in the past year. (I don't have one.) And so on.

 

[Bubble99]

Yes, that is why microsoft is always very agressive in their commercials and product releases, comparing their surface pro' s to ipads. Yes, they are definately not looking at apple.
With IOS 11, apple has made the first very big step in making the ipad a real laptop replacement for lots of people, without making compromises in the easy of use.
And it works with the ipad 2017, 330 us dollar ipad too ,for people on a budget.
So... apple playing catch up?
Come on..

The only thing surface pro has going for it well it has a full OS and you have full control.

But there not many apps and the touch screen user friendly is not good.
[doublepost=1497813832][/doublepost]

I think everybody is ignoring the biggest, and in my opinion the only, issue with the Ipad Pro. That is the lack of ability to run Apple Mac software. I don't care that the OS is separate from one to the other, I just want to port Logic Pro, MainStage, Final Cut Pro, etc to my Ipad. The way I would like it to be is that I can work on some major projects on my Mac Pro, and simply port them over to the Ipad when on the go. Why is that such an issue? They have already done Pages, Numbers, and Keynote, but so has Microsoft with Word, Excel, and PowerPoint. As a matter of fact, I can also run those on my Ipad. Maybe it would behoove MS to start porting Apple and even Mac specific programs onto their Surface.

The problem is these apps where build for mouse, trackpad and keyboard not touch user interface and pen. So Apple cannot port it over with out building new app from the ground up.

 

[mangoduck]

As for Microsoft following Apple? "We don't really look at Apple," said Gavin.

YEEAAAh. Look at that, Gavin, ya done and woke me up with that racketty headflappin nonsense. Whut'da heel?

End wherz muh'old avateezar gontu?

 

[FelixDerKater]

iPad won’t compete with Surface so long as it is designed as less than a full computer.

 

[Olganech]

Best in class is an easy claim to make when you define you're own class of device. It doesn't mean you're product is great.

I would not call an iPad a great product.

 

[Keirasplace]

iPad won’t compete with Surface so long as it is designed as less than a full computer.

"full computer" as defined by you, you mean; happy to put in that correction.

 

[FelixDerKater]

"full computer" as defined by you, you mean; happy to put in that correction.

If that fits your definition of a correction, have at it.

 

[Olganech]

The only thing surface pro has going for it well it has a full OS and you have full control.

But there not many apps and the touch screen user friendly is not good.
[doublepost=1497813832][/doublepost]

The problem is these apps where build for mouse, trackpad and keyboard not touch user interface and pen. So Apple cannot port it over with out building new app from the ground up.

The Surface Pro can run nearly every Win32 application going and it will happily run MacOS and any Linux OS you care to install on it.