Microsoft Executive Says iPad Pro Was Apple's Response to Surface

[DNichter]

Microsoft never claimed they wanted to hit the prestige of name like Apple did with their mac lineup. the Surface lineup is meant more as a lower volume example to OEM's of what microsoft believes the "ideal" hardware for their platform is

OEM's, like always, have just been really slow at changing direction, where Microsoft, who didn't really have a hardware lineup before, was able to do so quickly.

we're starting to see in the last year, competition trying their own versions of "surface" devices, that all tend to be cheaper than Microsoft's own offering, and I think Microsoft is perfectly ok with this (remember, a windows device sold is a windows device sold, regardless of who actually makes it)

I never felt that they claimed that, I just didn't see why they were making these then as they don't sell all that well and there's a ton cheaper that do the same thing. But yea, I guess even if they are showing their competition how to make a better windows machine, they still get their windows money.

 

[lip008]

I didn't scroll through all the comments in case someone already pointed it out, but wasn't RT Microsoft's failed answer to an iPad? All Apple did was take their device to the next level. Maybe it does fill the void that MS created with their Surface line but it's a true tablet. Surface is still stuck between two worlds.

I NEVER want to use a Surface Pro in tablet mode. NEVER. I LOVE using my iPad in tablet mode. I BARELY like to type on a Surface Pro when using it as a laptop. I BARELY like to type on my Ipad using a Logitech keyboard. At least the iPad allows the device to be used with different brands of keyboard/cases. The Logitech keyboard is a great typing experience but they both rank the same because they lack the stability and screen pitch that a laptop offers.

 

[LordVic]

I never felt that they claimed that, I just didn't see why they were making these then as they don't sell all that well and there's a ton cheaper that do the same thing. But yea, I guess even if they are showing their competition how to make a better windows machine, they still get their windows money.

yup. Microsoft's biggest revenue is windows. while they're very very diversified company, Windows is still their core product.

at the end of the day, even if they went back to selling zero hardware, ensuring most of the world continues to run on windows will keep them profitable (Hence Ballmer's "success")

As Apple users and fans (which I do consider myself part of), we often do get stuck in our little bubble and do forget that 90%+ of the worlds computer browser usage is still windows based, and Microsoft has no intention of letting anything get in the way of that

 

[Breaking Good]

Microsoft, after years of hating you I've come to love you with Windows 10 and the Surface Pro.

But please don't compare yourself to Apple. The Mac vs. PC commercials were cute when Apple was clearly seen as the underdog. But now the comparisons just look petty.

The Surface Pro 5 isn't an iPad "killer" or even a replacement. But it is viable alternative with a fanless Core i5 processor and a cellular option coming later this summer.

 

[Gasu E.]

an ipad pro is still a complimentary device. that's the truth.

I've seen iPads as raffles prizes; but on the whole, they are too expensive to use as free give-aways.

 

[DNichter]

yup. Microsoft's biggest revenue is windows. while they're very very diversified company, Windows is still their core product.

at the end of the day, even if they went back to selling zero hardware, ensuring most of the world continues to run on windows will keep them profitable (Hence Ballmer's "success")

As Apple users and fans (which I do consider myself part of), we often do get stuck in our little bubble and do forget that 90%+ of the worlds computer browser usage is still windows based, and Microsoft has no intention of letting anything get in the way of that

Oh I don't forget it. I have to use a Windows 10 laptop for work daily. I actually like Windows 10, but I have just felt lately that the point and click, typical desktop OS set up is less the future than I imagined. Now there will always be a need for such devices (on some level), but I see something very natural and more collaborative about working with a tablet. Management, executives, etc. will need to use a typical computer less and less.

 

[4jasontv]

The Surface Pro 5 isn't an iPad "killer" or even a replacement. But it is viable alternative with a fanless Core i5 processor and a cellular option coming later this summer.

Nothing says iPad killer like using the Apple naming convention. No Surface Pro 5 this year my friend. There is a New Surface Pro you can check out. Just like the New iPad that replaced the iPad 2, there is a single hardware change that is used to justify why it is being touted as the best device ever.

 

[H2SO4]

No, subjectively. If you don’t want the cruft and bloat of Windows, or the thicker tablet, or having to worry about malware, or a poor selection of tablet optimized apps, the iPad Pro is going to be a better choice. If you want to run Windows desktop apps on something and do drawing but don’t need lots of quality touch apps, get the Surface. The lower end Surface Pros that are priced in the same range as the iPad Pro are actually slower with a poorer screen. But keep being “objective”!

Bearing in mind that the Surface runs a full OS, however you choose to look at it and we both know the angle you’ve come from, the amount of software and hardware you can connect, you CAN do more with it. Period.

 

[crapple1219]

Uh oh. Many long time MR readers heads will explode at this one. My how times have changed.

I worked at Microsoft. The Apple envy runs deep and wide. Gavin's statement is laughable; they can't stop looking at Apple.

 

[4jasontv]

Bearing in mind that the Surface runs a full OS, however you choose to look at it and we both know the angle you’ve come from, the amount of software and hardware you can connect, you CAN do more with it. Period.

It's so weird. When I switched from iOS to android everyone who used android told me that for any iOS app I had there were five free android versions that did the same thing. So I switched, and yeah, I found apps that did everything my iOS apps did. The thing is, what Android fans don't want to tell you is that they all suck. Sure, I can do everything on my Android that I could do on my iPhone, I just don't want to.

 

[RamsayBolton]

I mean sure, I can see the iPad Pro being a response to the Surface, but more iPads are sold in a single quarter than all Surfaces combined. Let's not act like Microsoft is winning this game.

More Burger King hamburgers are sold in a day, than Ruth Chris steaks in a year...

 

[AdonisSMU]

Surface 2 in 1 computers keep losing money. They aren't moving off the shelves at any noticeable quantities. People say ohhh ahh when they see the demo units but then when they get them they return them.

 

[satchmo]

I have a 12.9" iPad and a Surface Pro 4. The Surface hardware design is superior to the iPad.

The keyboard is better and the kickstand is amazingly useful. The magnetic pen holder is also nice.

The aesthetic design is also more pleasing to me.

Where the iPad rules is in ease of use, security, and developer support. The ease of use isn't a factor for me but I know it's important for many novice users. The security I do care about, iOS devices are extremely safe. Even though I'm smart enough to stay out of trouble, I know most users aren't. Where the iPad really rules is in developer support.

The Microsoft app store is truly a sad mess and it lacks developer support. That's the reason I even have an iPad, the apps.

For professional work the Surface is superior as it runs desktop apps that are superior to iPad apps. But for someone who just wants to play, the choice is clear, the iPad rules. Lots of great apps that fall short of being professional quality but that are more affordable and a better experience for someone who just wants to play and isn't looking to make a living with it.

Let's be honest, the surface pro w/kb was designed from the ground up to be an all in one. I have to admit, it looks fantastic.

The iPad with keyboard aesthetically looks like it's been thrown together as an afterthought. It was meant to be a finger only device.

But as you pointed out, the OS is a big difference. If you can marry both touch and desktop interfaces correctly, you have a winner.

I'm not sure if either has done that yet. Microsoft gambled big on having one unified OS and it seems like Apple is sort of following suit.

Despite Tim's claim that each device should have it's own operating system, I wouldn't be surprised if Apple eventually caved and unified both iOS and macOS

 

[RamsayBolton]

It's so weird. When I switched from iOS to android everyone who used android told me that for any iOS app I had there were five free android versions that did the same thing. So I switched, and yeah, I found apps that did everything my iOS apps did. The thing is, what Android fans don't want to tell you is that they all suck. Sure, I can do everything on my Android that I could do on my iPhone, I just don't want to.

What are those "apps" (how I hate that word)?

And all Android "apps" suck? Really?

In my experience, all major "apps" are exactly the same on Android and the iPhone (Oh! To be a real pretentious douche, we have to say "the same on Android and iPhone". Sorry, Timmy!)

 

[tongxinshe]

Uhm.... he better get his facts straight. Apple and most people don't think a 2-in-1 is a good idea. We don't touch laptop screens. And don't want to.

Some of the users don't ever want to touch the laptop screen, it doesn't mean that ALL users don't want to.
A user doesn't want to fully rely on screen touching to control his laptop, it doesn't mean that he cannot SOMETIMES enjoy the convenience of a single screen touch for controlling.
An iPad Pro with a smartkeyboard is basically a 2-in-1 configuration.

 

[melendezest]

FWIW, I think that both Microsoft and Apple have the right approach, abeit coming from 2 different directions, and Microsoft is much closer to the goal (just because Apple adds features so. Damn. Slowly).

The Surface is a PC first and also an effective tablet. I see it as a (light) truck with passenger space.

The iPad is a nice tablet but not a PC at all. Given its single-user focus, I see it as a motorcycle. This fall, with iOS 11 it'll be a motorcycle with saddlebags. Not quite a car yet.

Apple needs to not redesign iOS completely, but add power features to make it a true laptop replacement for consumers and maybe students:

-Split-screen Multitasking was a good start.
-The Files app is the next obvious step, although it took FOREVER to get there. This is a SIGNIFICANT change.
-Multi-user accounts, already there for the Education Market for years now, is a WTF missing feature STILL
-Ditching Lighning for non-proprietary USBC/TB3 facilitating file transfers, etc is still TBD
-Mouse support for connecting to a large(r) screen, a la Samsung Dex is still TBD

The list goes on.

So, if you want a true laptop replacement, the Surface is the only game in town now.

But, if you can do EVERYTHING you need to on an iPhone, then the iPad may, may negate your Mac.

I think this keeps with Steve's intention of his analogy regarding cars and trucks, since his assertion really was that most people won't need a truck.

However, Tim's analogy of combining a fridge and toaster was, and is, flat out WRONG.

The way I see it, Microsoft is simply attempting to (and largely succeeding) combine a car and a truck.

With the iPad, and its inexplicable limitations in 2017, Apple is STILL calling a motorcycle a car (as intended by Steve's analogy).

 

[Ursadorable]

Sorry, I forget we are in the apple distortion field where everything Tim says is infalliable and everyone else is wrong

Yes, Apple is just as in the wrong as Microsoft. The iPad is not a full fledged laptop, it's a consumption device. Sure you can play around with images, etc. But it's more consumption device rather than a creation device. The surface is more a creation device than a consumption device.

It's ridiculous to compare the two devices as they serve two difference audiences.

 

[Mainsail]

I don't really understand buying a tablet with an attached keyboard. If your workflow primarily requires keyboarding on the go, then buy a portable laptop like the rMB. If you infrequently need to keyboard, then buy a touch first device like iPad and a cheap stand alone Bluetooth KB for the rare times you need to compose a large document.

The Surface and the iPad Pro strive to give the user an interface that allows seemless transition between keyboard, touch, and pen. In theory, I understand why this is attractive. In practice, I wonder how many people really use these multi-interface capabilities. In any event, the user will encounter compromises when using any device that tries to accommodate all three interfaces.

 

[jase1125]

The Surface RT was in response to the iPad. Surface Pro was the one of the first devices that could legitimately run a full desktop OS in a tablet form factor. On the third iteration, they nailed it. iPad Pro was a response to the Surface Pro's success. After deriding pen input, they adopted it along with a keyboard similar to the poor keyboard attempts with the Surface Pro 1 and 2 (one angle and poor lapability). Anyone who thinks the iPad Pro isn't a copy of the Surface Pro is delusional. The Surface RT and Surface 3 (non-pro) are attempts to copy the iPad (pre-pro). Apple copies just as widely as Microsoft.

 

[OhBrother]

The Surface followed the iPad in general.

Does everyone forget the decades of failure tablets that came out of Microsoft? Going on numbers alone, the Surface is just barely not a failure. Well, the last model at least.

I realize I may get attacked in this forum for saying this, but you and many others here are missing the point. In 2012 when the first Surface came out, Microsoft was banking on the long-term market turning toward a productivity-focused, mobile, convertible touch device, complete with local file system and highlighting the ability of having keyboard/stylus/mouse input. Apple eschewed that idea, laughing at Microsoft and accusing them of building "refrigerator-toasters". They balked at the idea of making their iPad tablet like that, saying it was fundamentally what a tablet SHOULDN'T be.

Now 5 years later in 2017, they're pursuing that exact vision - the iPad is slowly being changed into a "refrigerator-toaster" itself, complete with local file system and highlighting keyboard/stylus input (they're still avoiding mouse - gotta try to save face somewhere). And they hope no one notices that they are following the real leader.

The fact that the iPad still enjoys a large customer loyalty base from its early days, guaranteeing significant sales, is irrelevant - Microsoft had the long-term vision right. Even if Apple wins the market, some of us will never forget the hubris of a company that will always have "refrigerator-toaster" egg on their face.

 

[RamsayBolton]

The Surface RT was in response to the iPad. Surface Pro was the one of the first devices that could legitimately run a full desktop OS in a tablet form factor. On the third iteration, they nailed it. iPad Pro was a response to the Surface Pro's success. After deriding pen input, they adopted it along with a keyboard similar to the poor keyboard attempts with the Surface Pro 1 and 2 (one angle and poor lapability). Anyone who thinks the iPad Pro isn't a copy of the Surface Pro is delusional. The Surface RT and Surface 3 (non-pro) are attempts to copy the iPad (pre-pro). Apple copies just as widely as Microsoft.

But but but... who makes the most profits? That is what matters to us consumers. /S

 

[strategicthinke]

the surface pro and the surface book in particular is a much better corporate device. there are people switching to them over laptops. an ipad pro is still a complimentary device. that's the truth. iOS is very limiting. great for an iPad but i wish they had gone mac os for the pro version.

Surface is nothing but a laptop in a tablet form. It's not a tablet.
That's all folks.

 

[tongxinshe]

Where is a "True" professional tablet? Can I run 10 VMs on any tablet? Can I work on heavy 3D modeling? 4K or 8K footage?

This really needs to stop. Pro in a product name JUST MEANS better than the base model. THAT....IS......ALL.... Why are people thinking that JUST HAVING PRO in the name, means it will have the performance equivalent to 18-core CPU, 128GB of RAM, triple SLI of Quadro graphics cards, 10TBs of storage, and more? There ARE Pros that need that performance. People get SO WRAPPED up in stupid product names it is ridiculous!

PS4 to PS4 Pro. Can I run 10 VMs on PS4 Pro? Can I edit 4K or 8K footage? Can I do 3D modeling? BUT BUT BUT IT HAS PRO IN THE NAME!!!!

I seriously believe that EVERY SINGLE COMPANY should be banned from using the term Pro. The fact that SO MANY PEOPLE overreact to JUST A NAME is scary.

There can NEVER be a truly professional tablet or laptop according to some people. Not until we can have 18 cores, 128GB of RAM, triple dGPUs, 10TB of Storage. But when that happens, we will be on 32+ cores on the desktop and it will not be considered Pro then.

There are many professions in the world, not all professionals in all profession worlds need that extreme amount of computing power you described.

 

[andreyush]

Now compare the number of iPads used as a primary computer...

Now remove professional bloggers from that number...

Ow yes this logic <3..

Now remove every surface pro user

 

[bitfactory]

Look, Microsoft is lying here, but honestly: WHO CARES?

Mobile is where the action is, and Microsoft lost that fight and will never again have a chance to regain that audience.

Let them have their fun with the Surface... a big, 'who cares' product that they covered in alpaca hair... or, whatever that is.