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Problem with the Surface is MS marketing. Almost a year later and people still don't know the difference between the Surface RT and the Surface Pro and use them interchangeably

MS should eliminate the RT, market the hell out of the Pro instead, and give the product space a new name because it literally is a new product space. Instead they're marketing the hell out of the RT, ignoring the Pro, and letting people argue about whether the Pro is a tablet or Ultrabook.

That's spot on. Microsoft has confused their market and/or opportunistic tablet consumer.

The Marketing from Microsoft is so piss poor. I can't wait to see if they really do flub the new xBox system/platform.
 
Over 100,000. Is that game over?

When you're comparing to the number of apps in the Apple App Store and Google Play Store, yes.

There is a reason Microsoft isn't selling these things. Price was one big reason; but they're now correcting that blunder. The lack of sales is not because of the hardware, I don't think, because the hardware doesn't seem to be underpowered or otherwise flawed.

The problem is, in my opinion, that the interface is just like Windows 8's Metro interface so your average consumer is going to think, "I can put my desktop software on here and carry it with me in a tablet form factor with a touch screen!" Wait until they come to the realization that no, sorry, you can't do that; nor will you ever be able to do that. You can only install apps from the Windows app store -- all 100,000 of them. And while some of the apps in the Windows app store are relatively good; many of the apps are worthless -- especially when compared to their fully baked, traditional Windows software counterparts.
 
When you're comparing to the number of apps in the Apple App Store and Google Play Store, yes.

There is a reason Microsoft isn't selling these things. Price was one big reason; but they're now correcting that blunder. The lack of sales is not because of the hardware, I don't think, because the hardware doesn't seem to be underpowered or otherwise flawed.

The problem is, in my opinion, that the interface is just like Windows 8's Metro interface so your average consumer is going to think, "I can put my desktop software on here and carry it with me in a tablet form factor with a touch screen!" Wait until they come to the realization that no, sorry, you can't do that; nor will you ever be able to do that. You can only install apps from the Windows app store -- all 100,000 of them. And while some of the apps in the Windows app store are relatively good; many of the apps are worthless -- especially when compared to their fully baked, traditional Windows software counterparts.

They have roughly a third of the apps that Apple does in terms of tablet-specific apps. And that's exactly what Windows RT/8 apps are, tablet specific.
 
Seriously Microsoft, stop touting that awful kickstand. Especially if you're not even going to show the iPad's Smart Cover in the comparison.

I'm pretty sure I bought my iPad mini's smart cover. Not sure how that compares to the "built-in" kickstand, which comes with Surface.
 
They have roughly a third of the apps that Apple does in terms of tablet-specific apps. And that's exactly what Windows RT/8 apps are, tablet specific.

So, if Windows 8 apps are tablet-specific, aren't you saying by extension, then, that Windows 8 is designed specifically for tablets? While I'll agree with you that Windows 8 works much more naturally on touch-enabled hardware, the reality is that Windows 8 is being installed on almost all new hardware by OEMs whether the hardware supports touch or not.

Therein lies the problem. Microsoft has created an OS that looks the same to the average user whether they're using their Windows RT tablet or their Intel i7 laptop. It's confusing when you're using something that looks exactly the same on both machines but is, in reality, fundamentally different.

The same kind of confusion would occur if iOS 8 looks just like the next major release of the Mac OS. If I turn on my iPad one day and see a desktop that looks just like the desktop on my Mac, there will be a natural expectation that I will be able to do the same core things I can do on my Mac on my iPad. The sad reality is that Windows 8 and Windows RT look virtually identical to the average user and they're not. I understand Microsoft is trying to "unify" the experience across devices; but in this case, I think they went a little too far on the "unification" spectrum.
 
So, if Windows 8 apps are tablet-specific, aren't you saying by extension, then, that Windows 8 is designed specifically for tablets? While I'll agree with you that Windows 8 works much more naturally on touch-enabled hardware, the reality is that Windows 8 is being installed on almost all new hardware by OEMs whether the hardware supports touch or not.

Therein lies the problem. Microsoft has created an OS that looks the same to the average user whether they're using their Windows RT tablet or their Intel i7 laptop. It's confusing when you're using something that looks exactly the same on both machines but is, in reality, fundamentally different.

The same kind of confusion would occur if iOS 8 looks just like the next major release of the Mac OS. If I turn on my iPad one day and see a desktop that looks just like the desktop on my Mac, there will be a natural expectation that I will be able to do the same core things I can do on my Mac on my iPad. The sad reality is that Windows 8 and Windows RT look virtually identical to the average user and they're not. I understand Microsoft is trying to "unify" the experience across devices; but in this case, I think they went a little too far on the "unification" spectrum.

No, I would say that Metro/Modern UI is designed for touch first. And they decided to call it the "Windows Store", which is a confusing name for people who don't know any better.
 
I kinda agree with the point made earlier, that ad theme makes you think about the good ol' times.
bsod.png
 
I like how they compare both products and the iPad looks far better in terms of design. Same thickness, close in weight but what microsoft wanted to show is that it's cheaper and does a few key things better than apple. This is not enough to get people to buy your products. They need to stand alone and not compare.
 
As I pointed out earlier, again, isn't that what Apple did with those (popular) PC vs Mac ads?

Is anyone here saying what Apple did was right with the PC vs Mac ads? I disagree with any ads like that, no matter who does them. Companies that have to compare themselves to the competition like that just show their desperation and know their product isn't as good. Apple have gotten past that stage as they improved their products.
 
This is why most of us prefer iOS. Just sounds complicated.

Step 1: Hit Windows key and find your Twitter app (or whatever else you want in the sidebar), then open it
Step 2: Hover your mouse over the middle top of the app (you know you're in the right spot when you see a hand)
Step 3: Drag it towards the left of the screen. You should now be back on the start screen with your app in the left side corner
Step 4: Hit the Windows key + D to go back to your desktop (or click the Desktop tile).
Step 5: Profit.

Enjoy :)

This is why the surface wont best the iPad, its never been about the hardware or capabilities. It's about the software, the UI, the simplicity. Mobile devices (tablets inclusive) are not for heavy duty computing. You can use a macbook air (11" or 13") if you require something smaller for heavy duty stuff. It doesn't matter what the hardware does if the software and UI is not compelling.
 
Windows 8 alone kills the Surface. :D:apple:

You have that right. The moving tiles looks like something out of a post-doc project at the MIT Media Lab. Nice in concept but poor in execution. It just doesn't have a good workflow with the rest of the UI.
 
I'll have to respectfully disagree with you on this, I use ¼ and ¾ display on my Windows desktop.

¼ for a Twitter client, ¾ for the rest of my stuff. Lets me keep up with the happenings while doing other things. I would love this capability on a tablet :)

You have a 10-inch screen on your windows desktop? :rolleyes:
He is right, that feature is stupid on such a small screen.
 
Yeah? And I have never needed more carrying capacity than my car can give, and I can always rent a moving van if I need more space, so I think Ford and Dodge and Chevy should discontinue selling pickup trucks. Nobody needs those things right?

I'm glad that you have sufficient other options that you never feel the need for a USB port. To be honest, 95% of the time, I do too. But every once in a while I wish I had one. And we can't claim to know what's best for every other user, either.

Here's a real-world example I just went through: I volunteered with a kids' camp a few weeks ago. One of my jobs was to take and collect photos to put together to make slideshows. Most people would hand me the SD cards from their cameras so I could copy the files over. Several people came to me and said they had some great photos taken on their smartphones (to be fair, not just iPhones, but a Galaxy and a BB as well).

What do I tell them? "Email them to me" is pretty much their only option. They're not going to download/install/setup/invite Dropbox just for a one-time transfer, and Photo Stream and iCloud are not helpful in this case. In the end the dismal internet connection we had up at our campsite was too slow and they all gave up trying to send me pictures.

Is there a way to connect someone else's iPhone/iPod to your iTunes and just download some photos, without syncing everything else or establishing a "permanent" link between my iTunes and their device? I couldn't find it.

That's why you will not find pick-up trucks in Europe. :D I sync via Panasonic website between my iPad and Panasonic camera (if reasonable connection is available). Yes, you can select albums te be synced via iTunes. Click on your device when it is being recognized by iTunes, go to the photo-tab and here is where you can select 'albums'.
 
So, if Windows 8 apps are tablet-specific, aren't you saying by extension, then, that Windows 8 is designed specifically for tablets? While I'll agree with you that Windows 8 works much more naturally on touch-enabled hardware, the reality is that Windows 8 is being installed on almost all new hardware by OEMs whether the hardware supports touch or not.

Here's a link that shows the disconnect between MS and their OEM's regarding what hardware W8 should run on

Personally I like W8 but without a touchscreen the start screen is pointless
 
The problem is, in my opinion, that the interface is just like Windows 8's Metro interface so your average consumer is going to think, "I can put my desktop software on here and carry it with me in a tablet form factor with a touch screen!" Wait until they come to the realization that no, sorry, you can't do that; nor will you ever be able to do that.

Yeah, this is where it got a little confusing for me too when I was checking out the RT.

I found the Desktop mode and got excited, then I realized that basically the only thing you can do with Desktop mode is run Office. And copy files around. It's like giving people false hopes. Well, yeah, it looks like Windows, but it's not...

Why couldn't Office have been baked into the Metro interface too?
 
I'm no Apply fanboy like most of the MS haters here and by far not a full on MS fanboy.

I agree, the Surface RT has it's shortcomings but so does the iPad. My iPad is only usable to me since I have it jailbroken. I can run apps in "windows" so it's like I'm sort of multitasking like the Surface RT.

I own a Surface PRO, my high school daughter liked it more than the macbook air and any of the ultrabooks. She likes how it's a tablet but can be like a laptop but more "flexible". As long as you have a touchscreen, I think Windows 8 is pretty intuitive. I think people just need to give it more because I remember when people jumped from DOS to Win 3.1, everyone hated on MS. Then again from 3.1 to Win 95.

And since there are now ways to unlock the Surface RT, you can make it much like the Surface Pro now to an extent and since they lowered the price on it. I may pick one up now.

My only issue with both Apple and Microsoft, now that they are creating their own hardware, is they will both be doing the same thing which is trickling out the upgrades.
 
As I pointed out earlier, again, isn't that what Apple did with those (popular) PC vs Mac ads?

No it isn't IMHO.

1. The PC/Mac adds had 'JOKE' written over them in capitals, and were never about mispresentation of facts. If not for a good sense of humor, professional users would all be on PC by now, right? Since Macs were pictured as merely toys to have light weight fun with.
2. The key word in your reply is 'DID'. Apple moved along since then, and so did I. MS clearly didn't, neither did Samsung, neither did Nokia.

Either way, nothing in this add convinced me of even considering to take a look at a MS tablet. YMMV
 
they have...and people still don't want it. i don't blame them for trying something different. I don't think anything going to change though.

Imo the surface rt should have been made flushable so that it could fulfill its destiny.

rotflmao
 
It brings better multitasking than the iPad to the table. Also, yes, it was made to compete with the iPad. With almost everyone agreeing it does, as well as the people who made it, it does compete with the iPad. The ads say it does, Microsoft says it does, 99% of people say it does. The idea of it competing with ultrabooks is silly.

It's an ARM device, not on the x86-64 platform.

Would you say the iPad is meant to compete with Ultrabooks?

Sigh

Yes, it "competes" with the iPad for our time. So does TV, bowling, and long walks on the beach. But I am saying it loses so utterly to the iPad on everything that consumers have been proven to use a tablet for that it has become pointless. It has failed to truly provide competition on any sort of useful level.

Why on earth would the CPU architecture matter to this discussion about usage?

And don't call me silly again. At least I can think for myself, not letting advertising do that for me. According to you, that makes me less silly than 99%.
 
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