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Microsoft Launches Three New Surface Pro 3 Ads Targeting the MacBook Air

Renzatic said:
Yeah, just about every one of these is a generic response to the ills of Windows that have been around, and were mostly relevant, around Win95. He should've thrown in .dll hell for the sake of completion.

Granted, Windows isn't without its problems, and it does tend to need a little more TLC than any of the 'nix OSes, but it's not nearly as bad as its made out to be. All I did was run a couple of cleaner programs once a month or so, and I could keep a Windows install going on for years with barely any slowdown or other weird issues arising.

My one and only complaint with Windows is the fresh-install-update-smorgasborg. It takes 2 years short of forever, and gets flaky as hell, what with it downloading stuff while telling you it's not downloading anything at all. But once you're past that, Windows is pretty solid and stable.
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I will throw in .dll, right now. They suck too.

Once a month is too often for me. My Linux and Mac installs run for years without any of that jazz. And I might just be going insane, but it seems like Windows has way more updates. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it seems like they could be a bit condensed when I see new ones every day during certain periods.

The problem is they have too much bloat under them. They can't support all of it anymore, and when it rears its ugly head, the user has to deal with it, which they simply don't have to on any other modern OS.
 
jolux said:
I will throw in .dll, right now. They suck too.

Once a month is too often for me. My Linux and Mac installs run for years without any of that jazz. And I might just be going insane, but it seems like Windows has way more updates. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but it seems like they could be a bit condensed when I see new ones every day during certain periods.

The problem is they have too much bloat under them. They can't support all of it anymore, and when it rears its ugly head, the user has to deal with it, which they simply don't have to on any other modern OS.
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Windows does have more updates than OS X, but technically fewer than Linux.

Also, you're throwing the word bloat out.

We've reached the apex of this "Windows sucks" script. It can only go downhill from here.
 
Jayomat said:
fishy or not, they do have some points going for them. If it wasn't for windows (OS) itself, I would may give the surface a shot.



while, to be frank, most people don't use their laptop on their lap at all.
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I use mine on my lap all the time and so do all my roommates we don't have a desk or table so we all sit on the couch or beds. So yes it makes a horrible device to have in your lap. My roommate had one and didn't like it for that one thing and sold it. He bought a real laptop. That's just my experience you might have a different one. lol
 
Michael Goff said:
I'm running a MacBook Air (2012).

Microsoft throws out updates once a month, maybe twice. Throughout the entire month, you might get 20 actual updates. Or are you counting in the definition updates to their built in AV?

Also, not their fault if you somehow get an infection every 18 months. My mom doesn't even get that many infections on her computer, and she's the one that can barely get her printer to work sometimes.
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I browse constantly, and I have BitDefender. Still, I end up reinstalling Windows every 18 months for one reason or another, and around one in three times it's because of a virus. The other two is because it's been reduced to a crash, quivering mess.

I do run it fairly hard though, compared to the average user.

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Michael Goff said:
Windows does have more updates than OS X, but technically fewer than Linux.

Also, you're throwing the word bloat out.

We've reached the apex of this "Windows sucks" script. It can only go downhill from here.
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Windows does suck though, barely any power user or real programmer denies that. Why are you still clinging to it?

The one unquestionably verifiable problem with Windows is bloat. The 8.1 64-bit install takes up over 18GB of space. That's just unacceptable. It might be mildly ok if there was a tangible advantage to using it, but there isn't as far as I can tell.
 
jolux said:
I browse constantly, and I have BitDefender. Still, I end up reinstalling Windows every 18 months for one reason or another, and around one in three times it's because of a virus. The other two is because it's been reduced to a crash, quivering mess.

I do run it fairly hard though, compared to the average user.
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Then, no offense, you're doing something wrong. It isn't Microsoft's fault if you keep finding a way to break your computer to the point of needing to reinstall everything. At some point, you need to realize that your actions cause it.
 
Michael Goff said:
Then, no offense, you're doing something wrong. It isn't Microsoft's fault if you keep finding a way to break your computer to the point of needing to reinstall everything. At some point, you need to realize that your actions cause it.
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Actually, this is the experience that all of my Windows-using friends have. They got used to it, I couldn't.

I suppose if my actions include gaming and programming, then yes. They bring Windows to its knees every 18 months.
 
jolux said:
Windows does suck though, barely any power user or real programmer denies that. Why are you still clinging to it?

The one unquestionably verifiable problem with Windows is bloat. The 8.1 64-bit install takes up over 18GB of space. That's just unacceptable. It might be mildly ok if there was a tangible advantage to using it, but there isn't as far as I can tell.
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"Any real programmer" is not a source. And what makes a programmer a real programmer?

Also, the OS installed on the Surface Pro (when the backup was removed) was less than 2gb bigger than OS X. If Windows is bloated, so is OS X.

As for you not seeing any benefit to it, it's because your script doesn't call for you to see the benefit in it.
 
jolux said:
Actually, this is the experience that all of my Windows-using friends have. They got used to it, I couldn't.

I suppose if my actions include gaming and programming, then yes. They bring Windows to its knees every 18 months.
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If all you did was game and program, then it wouldn't be needing to be reinstalled every 18 months. I ran a single computer for 3 years, and ... it wasn't even that great of a laptop. The keyboard started to break down, for example. But Windows didn't die on me at all.

And I did the same things you claim bring Windows to its knees every 18 months.
 
I won't deny it, I do hate Windows. :eek:SHOCKER:eek:

Tell me, then, what are the benefits of running Windows? Perhaps you can bring me back into the fold...
 
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jolux said:
I won't deny it, I do hate Windows. :eek:SHOCKER:eek:

Tell me, then, what are the benefits of running Windows? Perhaps you can bring me back into the fold...
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I, personally, don't care what you use. Obviously Windows isn't something that you like to use, so I wouldn't try to get you to use it. My primary concern with a computer user is that they use what they like and have a good experience doing so.

I could point out how a Windows computer with an SSD starts up and shuts down faster. I could point out that you get a longer support cycle with each version in comparison to OS X. I could point to the greater number of games, the better support for programs, and so forth.

None of that matters, though, because you don't like Windows. There's something about OS X, and Linux, that you like more. Maybe it's the terminal. Maybe it's the UI. In the end, though, there is something that OS X does for you that Windows doesn't. And I don't think that my words will change that for you.

My entire problem is that you're justifying what you like with nonfactual statements.
 
jolux said:
I won't deny it, I do hate Windows. :eek:SHOCKER:eek:

Tell me, then, what are the benefits of running Windows? Perhaps you can bring me back into the fold...
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Directx and gpu drivers :D

That's all I got, and the fact that Apple doesn't make a consumer desktop
I don't want to bother with learning Linux when windows works fine in my setup. Hackintosh seems less reliable than windows.
 
Michael Goff said:
I, personally, don't care what you use. Obviously Windows isn't something that you like to use, so I wouldn't try to get you to use it. My primary concern with a computer user is that they use what they like and have a good experience doing so.

I could point out how a Windows computer with an SSD starts up and shuts down faster. I could point out that you get a longer support cycle with each version in comparison to OS X. I could point to the greater number of games, the better support for programs, and so forth.

None of that matters, though, because you don't like Windows. There's something about OS X, and Linux, that you like more. Maybe it's the terminal. Maybe it's the UI. In the end, though, there is something that OS X does for you that Windows doesn't. And I don't think that my words will change that for you.

My entire problem is that you're justifying what you like with nonfactual statements.
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The cool thing about OS X is that nearly everyone upgrades to the latest version within a year of its release, meaning higher levels of security and also less issues with support. As a dev, it's easier for me to select which platform to develop for as well.

I will give Windows 8.1 that, I was shocked at how fast fast boot actually was. Any idea what the tradeoff is? I'm genuinely curious.

I'm not a big gamer, but I'm a big fan of Valve's stuff, which is Mac compatible and the Mac App Store's library is growing, thanks in no small part to Aspyr. With regards to program support, I haven't had any problems yet. I'd love to know what yours are though, because I am very knowledgeable about open source alternatives and just what's out there in general. If it's a work requirement then I feel for you, I had to deal with them at one point too. Either way, I'd love to help you. That's what forums are for, right? A brotherly devotion to helping your fellow users?

I'll admit I went a bit too far, though I do however find it strange that you're ready to write off my genuine experiences as part of a script. I assume that's because you hear it a lot. I'm serious here, but has it ever occurred to you that you hear it a lot because it happens with a lot of Windows users? Serious question, don't flame me for it.

gotluck said:
Directx and gpu drivers :D

That's all I got, and the fact that Apple doesn't make a consumer desktop
I don't want to bother with learning Linux when windows works fine in my setup.
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iMac? Mac Mini?
 
Jayomat said:
...and please don't give me the "an ipad is so light, I have no trouble putting it i my bag", because it's really not the point.
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How is that NOT the point? That's exactly the point. With MS Office now available, PDF creating apps, apps to sign docs, etc. I can do EVERYTHING that I need to do on just my iPad. (apparently, about 100M others can too.)

To be fair, I cannot run the full version of Adobe Photoshop on my iPad, but I personally don't need to. Even if I did, though, I wouldn't. I would do it on a 15" Retina MBP.

So really, it comes down to what several others here have eluded to, and that is that the Surface & related ads has a bunch of features that nobody really wants or cares about, & it will be a long time from now before the Surface actually competes with the iPad in terms of sales numbers.
 
Michael Goff said:
That's definitely a real problem. If you have to start fresh, it's not fun in the slightest. Windows 8 is bad enough in this regard, Windows 7 at this point is a nightmare to update.
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It almost makes me wish they followed Apple's example here. Unless it's something of the utmost importance, they release fixes in one giant update at more spaced out intervals, so you end up not being overwhelmed with hundreds of little files that take forever to grab and apply. MS tends to throw every little fix out the moment it's done, and you end up being flat out swamped if you're installing an OS late in its life cycle.

Really, I think MS' business model is hurting them the most here, because they can't update the OS and ship out a new image every so often like Apple and all the Linux distros can. Yeah, you've got the Service Packs, but you can't just roll up and download a Windows image with those applied nearly as easily. Like I'm in Linux right now, and the iso I grabbed already had the previous few months of updates already rolled into it. When I got to the desktop, I only had about 8 updates waiting for me. I think Apple does something similar, plus they don't have to worry about quite as much, because they only have to address a limited amount of hardware.

It's the one biggest downside to using Windows to me. Cuz like I said before, it can end up being a HUGE pain in the ass if you're not prepared for it.
 
jolux said:
I prefer the windowing--i like the menus to be local to the window. That way when i have several windows open across 2 screens i dont have go back to main window. I like the simpler file paths: this makes scripting more linnux like. I like not having clunky chrome bezels on my file and app windows--i think they changed this recently. I hated the cartoon like 3d dock and pathetic animations. Oh, they got rid of that too? Seems like osx desk top is starting to look a lot like...windows 8

Osx is ok. i just prefer windows. All the horror stories here are pure bs.
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rowspaxe said:
I prefer the windowing--i like the menus to be local to the window. That way when i have several windows open across 2 screens i dont have go back to main window. I like the simpler file paths: this makes scripting more linnux like. I like not having clunky chrome bezels on my file and app windows--i think they changed this recently. I hated the cartoon like 3d dock and pathetic animations. Oh, they got rid of that too? Seems like osx desk top is starting to look a lot like...windows 8

Osx is ok. i just prefer windows. All the horror stories here are pure bs.
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Simpler file paths? Do you realize the central tenet of UNIX is "everything is a file?" There have never been clunky chrome bezels on the windows, and the animations aren't pathetic. They've been around for 14 years, a point where Microsoft didn't have any animations.

OS X looks nothing like Windows 8. I literally have no clue where you got that idea.
 
Vegasman said:
Dude that thing is an engineering marvel. The only thing missing to really impress is an apple logo.
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I think this is a quality to the surface that people here miss--or ignore. Its an amazingly cool bit of tech! The only things that have impressed me as much are the first unibody aluminum mbps and the original ipad air.

I feel MS both undersells and oversells the product by comparing it to the air.
No, its not as good as a laptop. Yes it has an awesome screen and fantastic pen interface. It has a great doc to plugging into a desktop set up. horses for courses
 
The Doctor11 said:
Well that guys favorite part about the surface pro 3 is the kick stand... Sounds like one hell of a exciting computer/tablet thing:D
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the kickstand is an amazing bit of engineering. If use a pen interface to draw or write--the first think you want is to have you tablet on 15-30 degree incline.
And the kickstand provides this. Thats why the sp2 is --imo--the best on the go art experience.
 
jolux said:
If you really need the touch interface, buy a MacBook Air 11" and a Wacom. It'll be a better overall experience for only slightly more than the price of a Pro 3 at entry level.
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drawing on desktop digitizer pad is a totally different experience from drawing on a screen. are you that desparate?
 
The Surface is still a daft product.

When it's trying to be a laptop. You can't pick it up by its keyboard or the display will collapse and fall off. The keyboard is a compromised rubber thing because it's a cover for a tablet. And the display can't stand up without a kickstand.

When it's trying to be a tablet. It's overweight, expensive at the entry level and uses an operating system that is best suited to a keyboard and mouse, not touch screen use.

It's a mess. It's just about as sensible as a submersible hedge trimmer.
 
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