Microsoft Launches Zune HD

[Spades]

Well after a few hours with it here's my summary review.

The Zune HD is the best PMP I have ever used. The UI has better usability and eye candy than any iPod I've ever used. It is slick and well integrated. Doing the same things on an iPod Touch that you can do on the Zune HD requires a half dozen different apps that don't feel well integrated. I'm going to be starting a drive to collect parkas to send to hell: Microsoft actually managed to beat Apple in the UI department.

It might make a dent in the iPod Touch market, but it certainly won't dethrone it. Apps are clear second class citizens on the Zune HD. They're one layer under the top level UI. But now the PMP capabilities of the iPod Touch look like a second class citizen.

The way I see it is this. If you want a great PMP that also has app capabilities, get a Zune HD. If you want a portable computer that also has good PMP capabilities, get an iPod Touch. Which is the larger potential market, a PMP with extra features, or a general purpose device? The general purpose device of course. The iPod Touch is safe from the Zune HD.

So I'm going to be enjoying my Zune HD, but I'll still be carrying my iPod Touch in the other pocket.

The screen of the Zune HD is really beautiful. The contrast and colors are great. The blacks really are black. It looks better than my iPod Touch's screen. Consumer won't care that the technology behind it is OLED, but they will care that it looks better.

And as expected, IE on the Zune sucks. It's functional, but ugly. Zooming is smooth, which is a good thing because font and image scaling is terrible, so you're going to be zooming a lot.

 

[compuguy1088]

My iPhone looks nothing like that. It's a side-effect of being photographed. On my iPhone, the blacks are pure black, no lightness to it at all. I would guess the apparent difference comes from the fact that the iPhone/iPod Touch are off-center and the Zune HD is not. Regardless, you would have to photograph these under considerably more controlled manner to make such a comparative judgment--or use a color calibration device to get fully objective measurements of the blacks.

The reason the iphone and ipod touch are brighter are based on them both having florecent backlights, the Zune hd has a OLED screen, that does not have a backlight.

 

[DMann]

I take the point about OLED screens but would point out that the examples given refer to first generation low nit screens (the N85 series 1 is a 170 nit screen - the series 2 replaced it with a superior 300 nit model).

Dilger's argument is spurious until we know the specifications of the Samsung AMS326FA05 display the Zune HD uses. I'm guessing it's a second geenration screen but let's wait and see.

However, let's not kid ourselves - OLED screens are the way forward and I find it ironic that Dilger - who is a critic of the OLED in the Zune - was waxing lyrical about the possibility of an OLED in the rumoured iPad.

That's the problem with Dilger - he's inconsistent and doesn't do enough research. That and he's quite mad obviously.

Before you so typically trash Dilger, blatantly accusing him of inconsistent research and unwarranted criticism, perhaps you should be made aware that the author of the article on his website, which elucidates the shortcomings of the current state of OLED technology, happens to be Prince Mclean

 

[compuguy1088]

Wifi sync. Now's that's beautiful indeed. Microsoft nailed that one way ahead of Apple.


Apple really needs to enable 802.11n and setup an automatic wifi syncing system (why n? because it'll overcome the excuse that wifi syncing would be too slow and it wouldn't slow down the wifi network that it taps into by going b/g compatible). Adding the ability to print through wifi would also be a nice feature both should add.

Personally, this is one thing that I wished Apple implemented with the iPhone and Touch......

 

[Chupa Chupa]

The Zune HD -- dare I say -- is slicker in many aspects (like wireless sync, OLED screen, etc) than the current touch. But the Zune is a damaged brand and a little late to the game with model that is finally worth buying.

On the other hand the current touch is boring as hell. You've have to be sleeping or employed by Steve Jobs not to admit to that fact. It's nothing more than an incremental improvement to the 1st gen touch. The touch's lynchpin to sales right now is the App store. But this may not be the case this time next year.

Bottom line, the new Zune is a clarion call to Apple. If Apple doesn't make some radical upgrades to the touch next year, not just "me too" add-ons or lame initiatives like "iTunes LP," only meant to boost Apple's bottom line, the iPod has a good chance of losing market share to the Zune HD. Apple seems to be resting on it's laurels of late just like they did with the first iMac. The world does want the same product in a new color, it wants a better, slicker, product.

 

[polaris20]

The Zune HD looks like it'll be a nice device, maybe even the best media player outside of the iPod line. Unfortunately there's still no OS X support, which is a deal breaker for me. I also don't care for the 16:9 aspect ratio, because I like a more square interface for applications than the 16:9 would provide. I really don't see a problem with having black bars on the top and bottom for a 16:9 movie; I don't really notice it after 5 minutes. I'm watching the movie, not the black bars.

Of course my preference probably has a lot to do with me despising 16:9 for computing anyway; I would never buy a 16:9 monitor for a computer, as it's completely useless for me for real computing work. I don't want to have to scroll around for VMWare's ESX client, spreadsheets on it suck, and trying to remotely support a PC with a 4:3 on it sucks.

But the biggest deal breaker for me for the HD is the lack of apps, which is what I use quite often for my iPT. Besides Safari and Mail, I make regular use of Maps, AIM, Air Sharing Pro, Balance, Bento, Evernote, Facebook, VNC, RDP, Password Gen, Express News, WifiTrak, and TouchTerm, along with a bunch of entertaining (albeit simple) games.

Sure there's nothing stopping MS from building an app store like Apple's too, but it'll be awhile before it catches on with developers.

 

[chris975d]

Well after a few hours with it here's my summary review.

The Zune HD is the best PMP I have ever used. The UI has better usability and eye candy than any iPod I've ever used. It is slick and well integrated. Doing the same things on an iPod Touch that you can do on the Zune HD requires a half dozen different apps that don't feel well integrated. I'm going to be starting a drive to collect parkas to send to hell: Microsoft actually managed to beat Apple in the UI department.

It might make a dent in the iPod Touch market, but it certainly won't dethrone it. Apps are clear second class citizens on the Zune HD. They're one layer under the top level UI. But now the PMP capabilities of the iPod Touch look like a second class citizen.

The way I see it is this. If you want a great PMP that also has app capabilities, get a Zune HD. If you want a portable computer that also has good PMP capabilities, get an iPod Touch. Which is the larger potential market, a PMP with extra features, or a general purpose device? The general purpose device of course. The iPod Touch is safe from the Zune HD.

So I'm going to be enjoying my Zune HD, but I'll still be carrying my iPod Touch in the other pocket.

The screen of the Zune HD is really beautiful. The contrast and colors are great. The blacks really are black. It looks better than my iPod Touch's screen. Consumer won't care that the technology behind it is OLED, but they will care that it looks better.

And as expected, IE on the Zune sucks. It's functional, but ugly. Zooming is smooth, which is a good thing because font and image scaling is terrible, so you're going to be zooming a lot.

I pretty much agree spot on with Spades assessment of the Zune HD, which you can see in the other thread we have going about it here https://forums.macrumors.com/threads/787058/.

In my opinion, the Zune HD is a great PMP with additional cool features if you're a person that puts audio quality first, because it really does trump the iPod series in output quality, as the Zune's have always been known for (if you have higher end headphones...you can't really tell with the pack in earbuds). But if you're looking for an all around PMP/web browsing device with ok audio qualities, the Touch/iPhone is much better choice. At least until the browser gets MUCH better on the Zune.

 

[polaris20]

Well after a few hours with it here's my summary review.

The Zune HD is the best PMP I have ever used. The UI has better usability and eye candy than any iPod I've ever used. It is slick and well integrated. Doing the same things on an iPod Touch that you can do on the Zune HD requires a half dozen different apps that don't feel well integrated. I'm going to be starting a drive to collect parkas to send to hell: Microsoft actually managed to beat Apple in the UI department.

It might make a dent in the iPod Touch market, but it certainly won't dethrone it. Apps are clear second class citizens on the Zune HD. They're one layer under the top level UI. But now the PMP capabilities of the iPod Touch look like a second class citizen.

The way I see it is this. If you want a great PMP that also has app capabilities, get a Zune HD. If you want a portable computer that also has good PMP capabilities, get an iPod Touch. Which is the larger potential market, a PMP with extra features, or a general purpose device? The general purpose device of course. The iPod Touch is safe from the Zune HD.

So I'm going to be enjoying my Zune HD, but I'll still be carrying my iPod Touch in the other pocket.

The screen of the Zune HD is really beautiful. The contrast and colors are great. The blacks really are black. It looks better than my iPod Touch's screen. Consumer won't care that the technology behind it is OLED, but they will care that it looks better.

And as expected, IE on the Zune sucks. It's functional, but ugly. Zooming is smooth, which is a good thing because font and image scaling is terrible, so you're going to be zooming a lot.

Just out of curiosity, when comparing screens; do you have a 2nd gen iPT, or a 1st gen? Mine's the 1st gen, and my wife has a 2nd gen, and my screen is actually way nicer; more neutral, while hers is slightly yellowish.

 

[BongoBanger]

Before you so typically trash Dilger, blatantly accusing him of inconsistent research and unwarranted criticism, perhaps you should be made aware that the author of the article on his website, which elucidates the shortcomings of the current state of OLED technology, happens to be Prince Mclean

Yes I know. That's one of the reasons why AI has gone down the toilet.

 

[Spades]

Just out of curiosity, when comparing screens; do you have a 2nd gen iPT, or a 1st gen? Mine's the 1st gen, and my wife has a 2nd gen, and my screen is actually way nicer; more neutral, while hers is slightly yellowish.

1st Gen. I should also mention I'm not a good judge of colors. But the improved contrast is obvious.

 

[Sehnsucht]

Read this ---> From oled to tegra: five myths of the zune hd.

Oled, tegra, ecc..all things that are only marketing 'cause without "booming words" ms can not compete neither with its 1,1%.

Uh...and no real innovation.

In just one word: microsoft.

That article pretty much defines the term "epic win."

 

[kate-willbury]

The Nvidia Tegra chipset used in the Zune HD really isn't anything special. it has two ARM11 cores running at ~600mhz (Which is not even as fast as the single Cortex-A8 core in the iPhone 3GS/iPod Touch V3). No one knows the specifics of the GPU yet, but I'd be surprised if it was much faster than the PowerVR SGX535 in the 3GS/Touchv3.

Similarly, Apple's samsung chipset is readily capable of playing back HD 720P video. It is Apple that is limiting the 3GS to standard definition and stupid analog video out. I love my iPhone 3GS, but I'm really surprised It can't playback HD video, and even more surprised It doesn't have a digital output for connecting HDMI to a TV.

why would you be surprised? even macbooks don't even have audio out from display port. hell, my 2008 aluminum macbook doesn't even have firewire. embarrassing.

zune hd looks nice. if i were in the market for an mp3 player i might have given it a shot. too bad i already have an iphone..

no idea why everyone is complaining about this lack of zune app store crap. who gives a ****? theres barely anything good in the apple app store either. either way its obviously in the works. its not like the ipod had any form of apps AT ALL when they first came out. the only reason the app store exists was because of the jailbroken community and people who wanted actual freedom within the generally proprietary, closed off and restricted little world of apple.

now if a zune hd PHONE were in the works, i'd definitely consider getting rid of my iphone 3g which is definitely showing its age. i would hardly call the 3gs innovative on any level either.

 

[trip1ex]

Looks nice enough, has a few attractive Zune-only features and it's good to see competition because it will keep Apple on their toes,

but no App store. No SDK. Next to no developer support.

No built-in email.

No built-in YouTube.

No built-in Stop Watch.

No built-in Contacts & Calendar afaik.

No built-in Notes.

No Copy/Paste.

No Bluetooth.

No speaker.

No external volume control.

No inline remote with earbuds.

And browser stinks. Arstechnica did a timed test and the Zune browser was 10x slower than the 3GS/Touch 3G at loading a webpage.

That's just the surface. Obviously the Zune is behind the eightball. It's more like the Touch of 2 years ago.

Sound quality differences? Consumer Reports rates Ipods and Zunes and most other mp3 players as having excellent sound quality with high-fidelity headphones.

 

[kate-willbury]

Looks nice and good to see competition because it will keep Apple on their toes,

but no App store.

No built-in email.

No built-in YouTube.

No built-in Stop Watch.

No built-in Contacts & Calendar afaik.

No built-in Notes.

No Copy/Paste.

No Bluetooth.

No speaker.

No external volume control.

No inline remote with earbuds.

And browser stinks. Arstechnica did a timed test and the Zune browser was 10x slower than the 3GS/New Touch's at loading a webpage.

That's just the surface. Obviously the Zune is behind the eightball. It's more like the Touch of 2 years ago.

Sound quality differences? Consumer Reports rates Ipods and Zunes and most other mp3 players as having excellent sound quality with high-fidelity headphones.

ok, you clearly don't know anything about the zune hd.

 

[Mattie Num Nums]

That clears things up. Today it's just ridiculous to pay for Core 2 hardware unless it's on a notebook or budget desktop.

I just e-wasted a bunch of working 6 year old Gateway and Dell towers. They were in working order but I couldn't find a home for them.

But Apple said its new and it looks so pretty!

 

[gari22]

Sadly, I live in the free world and use a mac so I couldn't buy or use one of these things even if I wanted to.

 

[silentnite]

I got a call from my neighbor, he's got something he want's to show me. Lo and behold it's the Zune HD. Well, let me start by saying it's not bad in day light and the HD blows you away. It's very clean looking mp3 player & it ships with a decent set of headphones. In fact the extra kit with docking stations packs some very sturdy cables HDMI etc.

I don't plan on buying one because your still tied down to internet explorer for a browser. It's just something about Microsoft you just expect something to go wrong. However, with that said they have created something for apple to think about when they decide to do the next Ipod touch refresh, perhaps HD, oled screen. & much better cables.

 

[cenetti]

Gizmodo review " The Zune HD is the best touchscreen PMP on the market. enuff said!

Playing with it since yesterday... I must say Oh YEA!... I am making excuses to play with it... it's one cool little gadget...

 

[cumanzor]

hmm well I've never had any issues from software updates, so people either broke there iphones themselves just so they get new ones, or they like to just whine. As for that the xbox 360 its one of the most failed electronic gadgets of this decade. Also I use my iPhone a lot longer than an hour a day, is that all the Zune HD's battery lasts LOL. I've never heard about that $199 replacement fee, nor the 3.1 update bricking iPhones. I Did here though that the 3.1 update stopped support for exchange 2007 on iPod touch & iPhone 3G. I'm a daily Mac rumours reader as well as 9to5 Mac. this is a Mac forums hence "Mac rumours", meant for Mac fans, not windows fans

Hmmm, well you are not far from being a huge Apple Fanboy. You brought in the Xbox 360 argument out of ****ing nowhere, your claim about the Zune's battery lasting one hour is completely unfounded. If you are a Mac fan, perfect, but stick to what you know about your Apple gadgets and just shut up about things you have no idea about.

Listen, I don't have anything at all at Apple. I have to accept that their computers look really nice. If their hardware work for you, fine, it's your money.

But what really pisses me off, to the point where I have to make an account on a mac-related forum, is people who live in their own elitist/cultist little world. Some of the accusations you guys make are simply retarded, completely unfounded and just wrong. I seriously, believe me, seriously respect any Apple fan who is able to give an objective opinion about something, especially when it comes to Microsoft.

You guys act like if microsoft killed your puppy or something. Most of you just lie to yourselves to make you feel better. Guess what, if you hate Microsoft because of their unfriendly business behavior or their monopolistic practices, I'm sorry to break your bubble but Apple is not much of a saint either. The best examples that comes to mind are the rejection of Opera Mini for the iPhone and the whole Google Voice deal (please don't jump into the "Hurr, it's AT&T's fault" bandwagon). When it comes to this, the only reason why people don't give a **** about Apple as much as they do about MS is because of their small market share.

I'm sorry, but Apple is as revolutionary as most companies out there. The difference is that they have momentum and a great marketing team.

You hate their OS? Fine, I'll give that you. But you just don't like it, you don't feel comfortable with the way it works, you got used to OS X and you love it. This is perfectly acceptable. Is the OS a piece of ****? I don't think so Tim, you should come back and try Windows 7 just so you can see that you are completely wrong. Hell, try Vista SP2 and you'll see a huge difference as well. On that same note, I do agree that Vista pre-SP1 was a HUGE POS, but every company makes mistakes. Mac OS 8 and 9 was the most unstable OS I ever used.

Freedom? What freedom? Apple is as bad as MS and Sony when it comes to proprietary ********.

To the idiots around here: get off your high horse, having a computer doesn't make you special.

To all those smart, rational apple fans: I respect you, you really do stand out among the crowd.

Did I mention, I'm a Linux user, almost full time (work and at home), I also have a PS3. I don't have an iPod but I absolutely love my brother's iPhone 3GS and I absolutely enjoyed the days I was messing around with OS X (hackintosh, but I have the right to say the OS is great).

 

[kdarling]

Read this ---> From oled to tegra: five myths of the zune hd.

That one reminds of the silly anti-3G articles that came out when Apple went EDGE. And the moment that Apple uses OLEDs, the fanboys will flip 180 degrees pro-organic. Never fails.

Each point should've had a counterpoint. For instance, it talked a lot about showing whites. Well, the opposite point is that OLEDS use no power to show black. LCDs use the most power to show black.

OLEDs have an almost 170 degree viewing angle. Amazing.

OLED blue dots have about half the life of other colors. About 14,000 hours. That's over 8 hours a day for each blue pixel over more than three years. No one has every blue pixel on that long. It's a handheld, not a TV set. We might as well worry about our flash memory going bad.

 

[LagunaSol]

In fact the extra kit with docking stations packs some very sturdy cables HDMI

For $90, I would hope so.

Note: yes, Apple's accessories are a ripoff too.

 

[CQd44]

For $90, I would hope so.

Note: yes, Apple's accessories are a ripoff too.

Speaking of ripoffs, I walked into radioshack to buy some USB extension cables.

$30? REALLY? For ONE?

Good thing newegg had them for $2.99 each.

 

[ZiggyPastorius]

That one reminds of the silly anti-3G articles that came out when Apple went EDGE. And the moment that Apple uses OLEDs, the fanboys will flip 180 degrees pro-organic. Never fails.

Each point should've had a counterpoint. For instance, it talked a lot about showing whites. Well, the opposite point is that OLEDS use no power to show black. LCDs use the most power to show black.

OLEDs have an almost 170 degree viewing angle. Amazing.

OLED blue dots have about half the life of other colors. About 14,000 hours. That's over 8 hours a day for each blue pixel over more than three years. No one has every blue pixel on that long. It's a handheld, not a TV set. We might as well worry about our flash memory going bad.

That is pretty amazing, to be able to see the screen from the back of the device.

 

[BongoBanger]

That is pretty amazing, to be able to see the screen from the back of the device.

He means field of vision which is a maximum of 180 degrees on a flat surface.

So yeah, it's pretty damn good.

That article pretty much defines the term "epic win."

Only if you're really, really gullible.

 

[inkswamp]

That one reminds of the silly anti-3G articles that came out when Apple went EDGE. And the moment that Apple uses OLEDs, the fanboys will flip 180 degrees pro-organic. Never fails.

Apparently, you weren't around when Apple followed the herd with the glossy screens. There were (and still are) plenty of Mac users who disagree with Apple when they do that kind of thing.

Each point should've had a counterpoint. For instance, it talked a lot about showing whites. Well, the opposite point is that OLEDS use no power to show black. LCDs use the most power to show black.

OLEDs have an almost 170 degree viewing angle. Amazing.

OLED blue dots have about half the life of other colors. About 14,000 hours. That's over 8 hours a day for each blue pixel over more than three years. No one has every blue pixel on that long. It's a handheld, not a TV set. We might as well worry about our flash memory going bad.

I'm on neither side in this whole LCD vs. OLED argument other than to point out repeatedly that they each have strengths and weaknesses. You have to consider how those are factors in a mobile device.

So far, it seems to me that the weaknesses and strengths of OLED present more disadvantages and fewer plusses for mobile devices than the weaknesses and strengths of LCD. For example, what does a better viewing angle really matter on a mobile device? How often are you viewing a handheld device from such angles? Likewise, the relative values of backlighting and power-consuming black pixels on a mobile device becomes painfully apparent in direct sunlight.