Microsoft Launches Zune HD

[TuffLuffJimmy]

I will copy my reply to this figure from another post to make sure readers understand what you are putting out.


on top of that, you are intentionally, or unknowingly, trying to equal JS speed to page loading speed, which is totally bogus.

yet they are entirely related. It would be BOGUS to suggest they're mutually exclusive. Not all pages have scripts on them, many do. Javascript is getting more and more important. It would be moronic to not take javascript speeds into account when choosing a web browser.

 

[DMann]

I will copy my reply to this figure from another post to make sure readers understand what you are putting out.


on top of that, you are intentionally, or unknowingly, trying to equal JS speed to page loading speed, which is totally bogus.

LOL, I've actually used the Zune's browser - to call pathetic would be too kind.

 

[LagunaSol]

dont be too low, my friend, IE has 70% of market anyway, facts can not be denied, why making statement that has absolutely no meaning, except insulting other people?

Says the guy with a Netscape avatar and Firefox in his sig. I guess IE sucks unless it's on the Zune, in which case it's a WIN, right clevin?.

 

[bobertoq]

Videos are scaled down to the same width and height on both devices. You don't get better quality because the screen is 16:9, the only thing you don't have is black bars, but the video is 480 pixels wide and 272 pixels high, same on both devices.

And if you don't understand why having 48 more height pixels in a menu is a good thing, you're just a MS Fanboy, worse than the Apple fanboys here.

But I'm not an MS fanboy, nor am I an Apple fanboi. The fanboism on here disgusts me to a degree. Some people on here were acting like 48 less pixels was a legitmate reason to say the Zune HD is a terrible product. 48 pixels is not the reason.

 

[clevin]

yet they are entirely related. It would be BOGUS to suggest they're mutually exclusive. Not all pages have scripts on them, many do. Javascript is getting more and more important. It would be moronic to not take javascript speeds into account when choosing a web browser.

of course it does, however, did you not read the following sentence? sunspider runs function 1 million times to get a number, how much real life difference are you suggesting people will see?

I will do a side by side page loading test when I got it, we can discuss more about it then.

LOL, I've actually used the Zune's browser - to call pathetic would be too kind.

yeah, consider your fanboy attitude, I think of no reason to trust your words over what gizmodo has to say about it.

Says the guy with a Netscape avatar and Firefox in his sig. I guess IE sucks unless it's on the Zune, in which case it's a WIN, right clevin?.

yeah, safari sucks too, except its on my Pre, I use what I have to, you just want to comment on my personality? or you have something meaningful to say about the topic?

 

[dejo]

yeah, safari sucks too, except its on my Pre

Pre does not have Safari. It has a Webkit-based browser. Webkit != Safari.

 

[LagunaSol]

But I'm not an MS fanboy, nor am I an Apple fanboi. The fanboism on here disgusts me to a degree. Some people on here were acting like 48 less pixels was a legitmate reason to say the Zune HD is a terrible product. 48 pixels is not the reason.

To the contrary, the Zune fanboys were arguing that the 48 fewer pixels were somehow a plus in the Zune's column. Because, you know, all we do with these devices is watch 16x9 movies.

 

[clevin]

Pre does not have Safari. It has a Webkit-based browser. Webkit != Safari.

my bad, it does better than safari on iPhone, I forgot that. it actually has better urlbar behavior for one. live content for two, but all these are different topic tho.

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

my bad, it does better than safari on iPhone, I forgot that. it actually has better urlbar behavior for one.

Define "better" considering iPhone kicks the Pre's ass in every benchmark I'm having a hard time finding what's "better".

 

[clevin]

Define "better" considering iPhone kicks the Pre's ass in every benchmark I'm having a hard time finding what's "better".

every js benchmark? Im tech enough to know the real life experience is what counts.

Its easy integration to wikipedia, combined urlbar/searchbar saving more taps, auto hide UI give more space on screen, and live content on every opened tabs for switch back and forth. and guess what, never crashed on me in 3 month!

 

[DMann]

yeah, consider your fanboy attitude, I think of no reason to trust your words over what gizmodo has to say about it.

Considering your anti-Apple fangirl persona, self-righteous attitude, feeble ability to articulate your own scattered thoughts, extreme gullibility (If it's good enough for Gizmodo, then it must be fine) and overall blatant lack of insight and knowledge of technical issues (JS and page loading, Safari on Pre) consider your well earned status here confirmed.

 

[polaris20]

my bad, it does better than safari on iPhone, I forgot that. it actually has better urlbar behavior for one. live content for two, but all these are different topic tho.

Yeah, looks like it does better.

Web Browser Dialer Google Maps Camera Email
Apple iPhone 3GS 0.7 s 0.7 s 2.7 s 2.8 s 0.8 s
Apple iPhone 3G 0.8 s 1.2 s 3.3 s 3.9 s 1.2 s
Palm Pre 3.0 s 1.5 s 8.6 s 4.4 s 3.3 s
T-Mobile G1 5.4 s 2.0 s 4.4 s 4.9 s 2.0 s

iPhone 3G Phone 3GS Palm Pre T-MobileG1
anandtech.com 16.3 s 7.8 s 8.2 s 17.2 s
arstechnica.com 17.7 s 6.3 s 7.8 s 17.8 s
hothardware.com 35.2 s 14.7 s 11.2 s 24.4 s
pcper.com 33.3 s 15.0 s 18.0 s 34.0 s
digg.com 34.3 s 15.0 s 22.1 s 40.0 s
techreport.com 24.1 s 9.6 s 9.0 s 20.5 s
tomshardware.com 21.4 s 16.4 s 13.8 s 26.0 s
slashdot.org 26.0 s 10.0 s 20.9 s 46.0 s
facebook.com 31.7 s 13.5 s 19.6 s 37.7 s

iPhone 3GS Advantage over Palm Pre 21%
iPhone 3GS Advantage over iPhone 3G 122%

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3587

 

[TuffLuffJimmy]

every js benchmark? Im tech enough to know the real life experience is what counts.

Its easy integration to wikipedia, combined urlbar/searchbar saving more taps, auto hide UI give more space on screen, and live content on every opened tabs for switch back and forth. and guess what, never crashed on me in 3 month!

Not just javascript, but real life page loading. Side by side of NY Times, Apple.com, any page of your choice. The iPhone will load it faster. AND the iPhone has wifi so you're not stuck with a phone connection.

The iPhone has a bigger screen anyway, so the Pre HAS to hide its UI, or else all the content would be obstructed.

 

[clevin]

Yeah, looks like it does better.

Web Browser Dialer Google Maps Camera Email
Apple iPhone 3GS 0.7 s 0.7 s 2.7 s 2.8 s 0.8 s
Apple iPhone 3G 0.8 s 1.2 s 3.3 s 3.9 s 1.2 s
Palm Pre 3.0 s 1.5 s 8.6 s 4.4 s 3.3 s
T-Mobile G1 5.4 s 2.0 s 4.4 s 4.9 s 2.0 s

iPhone 3G Phone 3GS Palm Pre T-MobileG1
anandtech.com 16.3 s 7.8 s 8.2 s 17.2 s
arstechnica.com 17.7 s 6.3 s 7.8 s 17.8 s
hothardware.com 35.2 s 14.7 s 11.2 s 24.4 s
pcper.com 33.3 s 15.0 s 18.0 s 34.0 s
digg.com 34.3 s 15.0 s 22.1 s 40.0 s
techreport.com 24.1 s 9.6 s 9.0 s 20.5 s
tomshardware.com 21.4 s 16.4 s 13.8 s 26.0 s
slashdot.org 26.0 s 10.0 s 20.9 s 46.0 s
facebook.com 31.7 s 13.5 s 19.6 s 37.7 s

iPhone 3GS Advantage over Palm Pre 21%
iPhone 3GS Advantage over iPhone 3G 122%

http://www.anandtech.com/gadgets/showdoc.aspx?i=3587

nice, while dont forget the 21% translate into how much second again? oh, my god, 2 seconds!, how important! and Im sure ALL people visiting just these several site ALL their LIVES.

Get real, a browser is more than what that number portrays.

and app open time, sure Pre is a bit slower, but how about I dont ever need to close them as often as iPhone? that gotta save you some major time, does it?

Considering your anti-Apple fangirl persona, self-righteous attitude, feeble ability to articulate your own scattered thoughts, extreme gullibility (If it's good enough for Gizmodo, then it must be fine) and overall blatant lack of insight and knowledge of technical issues (JS and page loading, Safari on Pre) consider your well earned status here confirmed.

thats fine, except.

I DIDN'T make a judgment on the ZUNE HD browser, YOU DID.

at least I know what I know and what I don't, you apparently don't.

Not just javascript, but real life page loading. Side by side of NY Times, Apple.com, any page of your choice. The iPhone will load it faster. AND the iPhone has wifi so you're not stuck with a phone connection.

The iPhone has a bigger screen anyway, so the Pre HAS to hide its UI, or else all the content would be obstructed.

webkit is open source, palm WebOS 1.2 will be out on 9-23, and browser improvement is mentioned. its a back and forth competition, whats the surprise? and all pages, iPhone faster? thats simply false.

and pre has wi-fi too, I dont get stuck with phone anyway, and sprint 3G is quite fast.

you can't be real to say iphone has a bigger screen thus there is no need to maximize the display space, its the same res, pre display more content on screen than iPhone, engadget did the test.

 

[dejo]

...oh, my god, 2 seconds!, how important!

...that gotta save you some major time, does it?

Wait! So is saving time important or not?

 

[DMann]

thats fine, except.

I DIDN'T make a judgment on the ZUNE HD browser, YOU DID.

at least I know what I know and what I don't, you apparently don't.

Ah, first you claim:

"gizmodo seems to think browser is fine."

Then you contradict yourself by claiming:

Im tech enough to know the real life experience is what counts.

I actually have used the Zune's browser, which accounts for real life experience, and backed it up with data. Quite apparently, you have not, and by your own misaligned viewpoints, you have no basis to refute "real life experience" until you've tested it yourself.

But wait,

"gizmodo seems to think browser is fine."

Then again,

Im tech enough to know the real life experience is what counts.

Furthermore,

"at least I know what I know and what I don't"

Do you?

Your non sequiturs haven't taken you very far, now have they?

 

[KnightWRX]

IE6 has worked fine for years on my work computer. We have a lot of corporate sites that need to stay that way, too.

Oh yes, IE6 has been working just fine all these years. Too bad it's primary function is to hold back web advancement and promote vendor lock-in by not supporting standards.

and you dont have to assume zune app store is all air, many reviews indicated its probably true.

And Microsoft confirmed it's all air :
http://www.businessinsider.com/zune-hd-app-store-2009-9

And straight from the horses mouth :
http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/ht...009867170_microsoft_launches_zune_clarif.html

a hair thinner, while much wider, what does fat mean to you?

Again, the iPod Touch is wider because it has a higher resolution screen. Didn't we already cover this ? Same ppi with more pixels, better resolution.

Notice however that the iPod Touch is indeed thinner. The iPod Touch could also be thinner and have the same width as the Zune HD if Apple had sacrificed screen resolution to do so.

I prefer Apple's decision in this regard. More pixels = more resolution = more stuff on screen at one time = better.

But I'm not an MS fanboy, nor am I an Apple fanboi. The fanboism on here disgusts me to a degree. Some people on here were acting like 48 less pixels was a legitmate reason to say the Zune HD is a terrible product. 48 pixels is not the reason.

No, again, MOSX the Microsoft shill/troll/astroturfer came here and said that the Zune HD's 16:9 screen offered a better experience than Apple's higher resolution screen, precisely because it had less pixels and a 16:9 aspect ratio.

No one claimed Apple's higher resolution screen made the Zune HD a terrible product, that is a figment of your imagination and delusion. This thread and this forum in general is getting astroturfed everyday and you'd have to be blind to believe that all these "Zune HD and other Microsoft fans" are legitimate neutral parties.

 

[KnightWRX]

double.

 

[xIGmanIx]

We have a lot of corporate sites that need to stay that way, too.

I feel your pain brother, same here, our main corporate site was written i guess with the expectation that no advances would ever be made in browsers so only really works with IE 6!!

 

[RaZaK]

and the tech community...

either pointed and laughed or yawned from extreme lack of interest.

 

[MorphingDragon]

every js benchmark? Im tech enough to know the real life experience is what counts.

Its easy integration to wikipedia, combined urlbar/searchbar saving more taps, auto hide UI give more space on screen, and live content on every opened tabs for switch back and forth. and guess what, never crashed on me in 3 month!

No youre just smart.

If you WERE tech enough. You would just be comparing numbers and going OFMG!!!!!

/Sarcasm

 

[inkswamp]

Gah, the arguing over this one is really getting tiresome, but I have to admit that I like seeing the side-by-side pics.

Anyone with both devices care to do a direct sunlight shot?

 

[xIGmanIx]

either pointed and laughed or yawned from extreme lack of interest.

This just in, RaZak now represents all of the tech community , if you don't like it don't use it. if you haven't tried it, don't knock it.

Gah, the arguing over this one is really getting tiresome, but I have to admit that I like seeing the side-by-side pics.

Anyone with both devices care to do a direct sunlight shot?

To me, i want to know how easy it is to get media onto it, and how long batter life is, radio etc. To ME, how it is viewable in the sun isn't going to sway my purchase.

 

[polaris20]

nice, while dont forget the 21% translate into how much second again? oh, my god, 2 seconds!, how important! and Im sure ALL people visiting just these several site ALL their LIVES.

Get real, a browser is more than what that number portrays.

and app open time, sure Pre is a bit slower, but how about I dont ever need to close them as often as iPhone? that gotta save you some major time, does it?

You really think 2 seconds isn't noticeable for web browsing? Really? 2 seconds is a LONG time for page loads.

The Pre is a nice idea, and a decent effort for a 1.0 effort. But I found it to be an absolute pig to use, and the lack of speed made the whole "multitasking" thing irrelevant.

As for IE6, it's a horrid piece of crap. While IE7 and IE8 are definitely better, I haven't used any version of IE more than absolutely necessary for years, relying mostly upon FF and now Chrome. It would be cool to see Opera or Google come out with versions of their browsers for the Zune HD.

 

[PCMacUser]

This Zune HD is one of the best looking players I've seen so far. It looks a heck of a lot nicer than a Touch. I still won't buy one though, because they won't be released in this part of the world.