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Still too many versions of windows. I thought they got that figured out.

It should be:
Windows 7 Personal &
Windows 7 Professional.

Essentially a home version and server version.

If MS really wanted to sell 7 they would not make the $29.99 a promotional price. I mean. SL is $29.99 because it really is what we wanted from Leopard in the first place. Windows 7 is supposed to be what MS was hyping Vista to be.
 
Valid point, unless you find yourself needing those features down the road. OS X gives you everything up-front, without the redundant upgrade charges.

The features in Pro and Ultimate are for business users, not home users. I highly doubt someone would ever need to access a networked projector.. Also most features in those versions that Home Prem do not have, well neither does OS X. OS X is more compareable to Home Premium. If I'm wrong then anyone please correct me. Either way 99% of home users would never need those features not included in Premium (fake statistics FTW). Personally for me I bought a 13" MacBook Pro because it looks like the best built laptop available, but for a desktop nothing beats a system you build yourself price/performance wise.
 
The features in Pro and Ultimate are for business users, not home users.

Yes, because no home users has a need for XP compatibility mode...

I highly doubt someone would ever need to access a networked projector..

Yes, home theater systems just don't lend themselves well to streaming content from a PC directly to the projector.

Heck, I know people who run a domain controller and have home domains with roaming profiles so they can log on to every computer in their household and have their documents be there.
 
Unlike Apple, you'll actually get support from Microsoft for that amount of time for Windows XP.

I just love how some you conveniently dismiss Leopard as if it never existed. Leopard works on Intel Macs as well as PowerPC Macs made back from 2001. Tiger goes all the way back to old G3 machines. Now we're talking about Snow Leopard and W7. Snow Leopard is a complete re-write with old code gone and this new system is set for future innovation. W7 is still the same old Windows XP (and that's being nice) because it still has the retarded Registry and .DLL files that create headaches for the end user so no innovation here. Oh yes, but W7 has a new Superbar to make the users feel like they got something innovative to brag to their Mac friends about. :rolleyes:
 
Compatibility mode is in all versions. It is not the same as Virtual XP Mode (running a fully-licensed XP install in a VM)

You haven't offered a counter argument. Compatibility mode, if it's the same as Vista, is near useless. The Virtual XP mode (a seamless VM running XP) would be a great benefit to many users looking to switch.
 
You haven't offered a counter argument. Compatibility mode, if it's the same as Vista, is near useless. The Virtual XP mode (a seamless VM running XP) would be a great benefit to many users looking to switch.

I'm not arguing with you. Just stating that they are different features. It's basically XP in a VM with the VM's programs integrated into the 7 Start Menu.
 
I'm not arguing with you. Just stating that they are different features. It's basically XP in a VM with the VM's programs integrated into the 7 Start Menu.

We're talking about the same feature, you just corrected the name (even though everyone calls it XP compatibility mode).
 
The features in Pro and Ultimate are for business users, not home users. I highly doubt someone would ever need to access a networked projector.. Also most features in those versions that Home Prem do not have, well neither does OS X. OS X is more compareable to Home Premium. If I'm wrong then anyone please correct me. Either way 99% of home users would never need those features not included in Premium (fake statistics FTW). Personally for me I bought a 13" MacBook Pro because it looks like the best built laptop available, but for a desktop nothing beats a system you build yourself price/performance wise.

Yeah, that's not correct. OS X is comparable to Ultimate. OS X has full networking tools and file encryption, same as ultimate.

Please don't use the excuse that most home users won't need the Ultimate features, there are a lot of people that take their notebooks right to work with them and use them as their full time work computer. A "home user" is no longer really a home user unless they have a desktop computer. Most people use notebooks for work, school, personal use or all of the above and your OS should be able to accommodate all usage without paying extra for it.
 
Windows 7 is a new OS. Snow Leapard is, in effect, a service pack. That's why the price is different.

Windows 7 is a complete redesign of the Windows OS. It has new features, new graphics, and a new usr experience. The casual user will notice a BIG difference to Vista and 7.

Snow Leopard is Leopard with a few tweaks and a few new design features. But beyond that, there is very little to make it stand out as a distintive OS. The casual user will not notice much difference.

The fact that Apple charged $29 for something that is essentially a service pack should keep them from criticising Microsoft's pricing. Though I doubt it will.
 
Windows 7 is a new OS. Snow Leapard is, in effect, a service pack. That's why the price is different.

Windows 7 is a complete redesign of the Windows OS. It has new features, new graphics, and a new usr experience. The casual user will notice a BIG difference to Vista and 7.

Snow Leopard is Leopard with a few tweaks and a few new design features. But beyond that, there is very little to make it stand out as a distintive OS. The casual user will not notice much difference.

This troll again ? Please, come back when you get new material. Snow Leopard has massive changes under the hood. Things you can't release in a mere service pack (which are just security and bug fixe releases).

Windows 7 on the under hand is Vista with a new taskbar. Windows 7 doesn't have that many new features, as most of the improvements have gone into Vista itself.

There's a reason Windows 7 is just NT 6.1 (Vista was NT 6.0).
 
Why is this here...

Why is this here and why are ppl banging out about Windows 7!

So what if the price is the same, that's where the comparing stops for me.

The pick your Windows version spinning wheel ad with a simple name change is all Apple needs to do for the 7 release.

Stick to the Apple stuff eh, that's why I'm here.
 
There's a reason Windows 7 is just NT 6.1 (Vista was NT 6.0).

That was done so people could still use programs written for Vista (NT 6.0).
Most programs check the Windows version to determine if they can run or not.
So, if a program would see NT 7.0 during installation it would just quit, even it would be perfectly able to run -> that's why Win7 is "only" NT 6.1.
 
The features in Pro and Ultimate are for business users, not home users. I highly doubt someone would ever need to access a networked projector.. Also most features in those versions that Home Prem do not have, well neither does OS X. OS X is more compareable to Home Premium.
So, now you're demoting OS X to the compareable level of Home Premium? FYI, OS X has all of the networking capabilities that Ultimate has, as well as file encryption. (which actually works)

If I'm wrong then anyone please correct me.
With your permission.

Either way 99% of home users would never need those features not included in Premium (fake statistics FTW). Personally for me I bought a 13" MacBook Pro because it looks like the best built laptop available, but for a desktop nothing beats a system you build yourself price/performance wise.
The home/work boundary has been all but eliminated by the advent of higher powered laptops, broadband, networking and web conferencing, driven by an effort to reduce commuting time and fuel costs. Your dated assumptions no longer apply.

I just love how some you conveniently dismiss Leopard as if it never existed. Leopard works on Intel Macs as well as PowerPC Macs made back from 2001. Tiger goes all the way back to old G3 machines. Now we're talking about Snow Leopard and W7. Snow Leopard is a complete re-write with old code gone and this new system is set for future innovation. W7 is still the same old Windows XP (and that's being nice) because it still has the retarded Registry and .DLL files that create headaches for the end user so no innovation here. Oh yes, but W7 has a new Superbar to make the users feel like they got something innovative to brag to their Mac friends about. :rolleyes:
Keep a look out for 'Continuum Machine' - the new data back-up system featured in W8.

Not according to Steve Ballmer.

True that, even he wouldn't try to deny it.
 
That was done so people could still use programs written for Vista (NT 6.0).
Most programs check the Windows version to determine if they can run or not.
So, if a program would see NT 7.0 during installation it would just quit, even it would be perfectly able to run -> that's why Win7 is "only" NT 6.1.

I think you'll find that it's mostly because Windows 7 took the major leaps Vista made as far as features goes, and refined most of them to be usuable (UAC is a good example).

Windows 7 uses the Vista driver model, which was new. It uses all the same APIs Vista introduced. It uses Aero, etc...

That's why it is NT 6.1. Not for some obscure app compatibility reason (those apps that check specific OS versions are broken anyway, you should check for symbols you need, not assume it's there because your function returned 6).
 
Perhaps the official W7 Upgrade Chart has been the cause of some confusion:

windows-upgrade-chart.png

Only for people not smart enough to read a simple table....


Especially after realizing you've blown $600 for both 32-bit and 64-bit versions to accommodate your application sets.

Microsoft either ships both x86 and x64 in the same kit, or offers a free (or handling cost) option to get the x64 disc if you have an x86 only kit.

This is complete nonsense about $600 to buy both, and I'm sure that you know that. I hope that you're embarrassed for trying to pull that deceit off...


Which applications require 32 bit Windows to run and which require 64 bit?

Almost all x86 applications run fine on x64. (I don't say "all", because someone will find some poorly written app that will die.)

For Windows 7, just go with the x64 version. All your 32-bit apps will run fine, and any apps that are 64-bit will run a bit faster.

IA64 is not relevant to desktops.


The problem I am having, is finding device drivers, and their apps, to be compatible with x64. If I want to run my 64-bit apps, I'll need W7 64-bit. If I want to run my devices, I'll need W7 32-bit.

Any devices with the Vista logo will have both x86 and x64 drivers. If you have old hardware, and need to use the XP drivers, then you may find the need to use x86.

For the majority of consumers, this is a non-issue.


That is messed up.

The x86 and x64 notations are all but gibbersish to the average user

The "average user" doesn't upgrade, she'll go to Best Buy and get a shiny new system with Windows7 x64 already installed, with all the drivers.

She wants something new - just check the box for the Vista/Win7 logo. If it's there, it has the x64 bits that she needs.

More than half of the current Vista retail systems are x64 - and the sky hasn't fallen. Any system with 4 GiB of RAM will have an x64 OS, even if the ad copy doesn't mention it. Many of the 2 GiB and 3 GiB systems are x64 as well - so that a point-of-purchase upgrade to 4 GiB or 8 GiB or 12 GiB will do what the customer expects. Microsoft, in spite of all that Apple people say, really has gotten through the 64-bit transition in fine shape. Apple's still a day late, dollar short in 64-bit support.


Still too many versions of windows. I thought they got that figured out.

It should be:
Windows 7 Personal &
Windows 7 Professional.

Essentially a home version and server version.

The "server version" of Windows 7 is called "Windows Server 2008 R2". It is only available in x64, and has far more server features than any desktop version.


This troll again ? Please, come back when you get new material. Snow Leopard has massive changes under the hood. Things you can't release in a mere service pack (which are just security and bug fixe releases).

Windows 7 on the under hand is Vista with a new taskbar. Windows 7 doesn't have that many new features, as most of the improvements have gone into Vista itself.

This is the guy under the bridge calling someone else a troll...

Only the fanboys believe the "Windows 7" is "Vista SP3" tripe. It's far more than a service pack, and a far larger jump than 10.6.

(Note that when Microsoft (Ballmer, et al) are talking to developers - the story line is that "it's a minor change from Vista, no need to rewrite your stuff". When Microsoft talks to end users, they talk about the new UI changes and other huge improvements in the user experience. Don't take the former out of context and imply that it applies to the latter....)


There's a reason Windows 7 is just NT 6.1 (Vista was NT 6.0).

Yes, the reason is that Windows has modern opaque kernel APIs, and huge changes under the hood can be compatible with older kernel extensions. Because Windows 7 did not make major changes to kernel APIs, it did not warrant changing the Major ID in the version number.

Did you know that many XP drivers will load and run fine in Windows 7? How about running Tiger kernel extensions in Snow Leopard :eek: !!
 
That is messed up.

The x86 and x64 notations are all but gibbersish to the average user.

I suppose. The list was copied directly from the MSDN download site. It's been pointed out by others that Microsoft is making it simpler for users by not really offering most of the items in that list to actual consumers and also by providing both x86 and x64 versions in the same package (presumably labeled 32 bit and 64 bit, instead of x86 and x64).

How the average Joe is supposed to know if it is OK to install 64 bit, or whether he should install 32 bit instead, is completely beyond me. It also seems like it would be difficult to switch back and forth from 32 to 64 bit kernels if you wanted to try something out (apparently requiring a re-install of windows, unless I'm missing something).

But I've been told that a single install Snow Leopard that simultaneously supports 32 bit and 64 bit user space applications and defaults to a 32 bit kernel, but which allows power users switch to a 64 bit kernel (via preferences or pressing 64 on startup) is also suboptimal, so apparently no one has gotten this right.
 
This is the guy under the bridge calling someone else a troll...

Only the fanboys believe the "Windows 7" is "Vista SP3" tripe. It's far more than a service pack, and a far larger jump than 10.6.

I didn't claim Windows 7 was Vista SP3 either. The usuability fixes and changes they did cannot be implemented sanely in a service pack.

Both Snow Leopard and Windows 7 are worthy of being new releases. However, I will challenge people who say Snow Leopard isn't much of a step forward (under the hood work is very important, and now Apple has done much of the clean up needed to really effectively move forward in 10.7) and I will also challenge people who say Windows 7 is a huge leap forward (a new taskbar doesn't a OS make).

Yes, the reason is that Windows has modern opaque kernel APIs, and huge changes under the hood can be compatible with older kernel extensions. Because Windows 7 did not make major changes to kernel APIs, it did not warrant changing the Major ID in the version number.

Did you know that many XP drivers will load and run fine in Windows 7? How about running Tiger kernel extensions in Snow Leopard :eek: !!

No sane OS has a driver model that permits loading out of date drivers or drivers compiled and linked to older Kernel APIs that might not be there anymore.

Dragging 20 year old cruft in the Kernel just so that some old dot matrix printer still prints fine today is not sane obsolescence planning.

Of course, Windows isn't quite sane, so go figure.
 
No sane OS has a driver model that permits loading out of date drivers or drivers compiled and linked to older Kernel APIs that might not be there anymore.

YES, A SANE OS DOES HAVE A DRIVER MODEL THAT SUPPORTS OLDER DRIVERS.

A modern driver model allows extensions to be added to both APIs and data structures that don't invalidate older drivers.

Opaque data structures, object-oriented programming, and load-time binding can make it easy to support "old" drivers.

Of course, a "sane" OS also has the capability to associate version information with the APIs, and to allow the engineers to disable old versions of drivers. If the API "might not be there", then we don't load the driver.

That's the point of Windows 7 - almost all kernel APIs are compatible with Vista, in only a few cases were decisions made to say that a Vista driver won't work and a Windows 7 driver must be used.


Dragging 20 year old cruft in the Kernel just so that some old dot matrix printer still prints fine today is not sane obsolescence planning.

FUD.

I don't think that any 16-bit DOS drivers will load in Windows 7. ;)

The vast majority of Vista drivers, and most XP drivers that load on Vista, will work in Windows 7.

(Throughout the Windows 7 alpha/beta/rc/rtm process, the mantra has always been "find the Vista drivers, and load those". It always worked for me, even for weird laptop support drivers. The only "Windows 7" drivers that I looked for were graphics drivers - while the Vista drivers (WDDM 1.0) would load and work fine, the Windows 7 drivers (WDDM 1.1) had many useful new features..)

This is sane user support planning.
 
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