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Heh, I smiled at that jab. I agree. Macs used to be the niche device used by professions and some "hipsters" I guess you could say. When I got my first Mac years ago it did seem very professional and had some amazing software (iMovie '11, iPhoto '11, Page '09, DVD Maker, etc.). Even Office 2011 was good for it's time. Sadly, it's gone downhill to the masses and to follow iOS.

Don't get me wrong, many of the new features are great. Fullscreen, multiple display enhancements, under the hood advancements, and I love SMS relay, but it seems more and more like OS X is just for the masses with little regard to "power" users.

That is completely subjective, but at least Windows wears many hats; it's a personal computing device, a work hours, a VM managing station. OS X can be these things, but with all these cosmetic changes and choice of new features (like you said, SMS Relay over better enterprise support or office suite) is troubling.

I agree with you.

Macs used to be more "professional". Now they are turning into consumer machines. They are expensive and they do not make sense for businesses to have them, apart from a few niches. And the applications are being dumbed down to a point that they get very easy to use but, at the same time, you can do less and less with them.

The hardware is great. OS X is great. But the most important of all is software, because it is software that empowers the user to do whatever it wants with the great hardware and the great OS. And Macs are falling short on this.

Yes, receiving SMS on the Mac is very nice, but it is just a nicety. It is not a must-have feature, not a bare necessity. An office suite, on the other hand, is a must-have for lots of users, and Apple is failing to provide it.

Apple is allowing small developers take over software offerings for OS X. This is a mistake, in my view. Small developers do not have the economic power to drive large amount of resources required for fast delivering quality full-featured software. A small developer cannot compete with Microsoft, Adobe or Apple itself. And Apple is not putting its billion dollars in software development as Microsoft is doing.
 
Apple is allowing small developers take over software offerings for OS X. This is a mistake, in my view. Small developers do not have the economic power to drive large amount of resources required for fast delivering quality full-featured software. A small developer cannot compete with Microsoft, Adobe or Apple itself. And Apple is not putting its billion dollars in software development as Microsoft is doing.

This is exactly what they're doing, and they do it with iOS too. Developers have made some amazing apps on iOS, but that is a more limited platform. Just like you said, leaving the quality of apps up to third parties is a dangerous bet. Even many of the apps in the MAS are just OS X ports of iOS apps. Heck, even Apple's own core apps are now ports of iOS. And it isn't just economic position that limits third parties. Apple has deep access to OS X technologies that no other company has. THey could develop amazing software, but they've settled with good enough.

Honestly, I'm tired of annual updates too. I'd like to stay on one OS for 1.5-2 years and just have bugs ironed out and features enhanced. You barely get accustomed to one OS before the next one is in beta. I updated to Yosemite because iCloud Drive (which was a disappointment), SMS Relay, new notification center, and ability to close iCloud tabs were all features I really wanted. I think I'll stay on Yosemite for a good long time unless OS X 10.11 really brings some power user features I want.

Also, I agree with your point about a lot of Apple's new features. They are nice and value added features, but Apple is focusing too much on them and not on core needs. Either strike a closer deal with Microsoft where Office:Mac will receive regular quality updates or build your own "iWork Pro" and compete. Right now, Apple has made a consumer grade suite and left the power user suite up to Microsoft and they've dropped the ball. There's no denying that Office for Mac could have made it out this year, but other software took priority. I suppose I get that, but they should have allocated more resources. You have a good Office on iPad, iPhone, Windows, Android, and the cloud, but not on Mac. Maybe this will change with Office 2015 and it will receive regular updates like the iOS version has.
 
For anyone that has installed the new Outlook:

One thing I hate about Office 2011 is all the extra junk they put in my /Applications folder. Espacially the Applications/Microsoft Office 2011/Office which consists of tons of framework files that always want to pop up when I do spotlight searches. Is this still the case with 2015 or have they improved?
 
For anyone that has installed the new Outlook:

One thing I hate about Office 2011 is all the extra junk they put in my /Applications folder. Espacially the Applications/Microsoft Office 2011/Office which consists of tons of framework files that always want to pop up when I do spotlight searches. Is this still the case with 2015 or have they improved?

Not sure about the framework part as I've barely used the new Outlook, but I am happy to say that it installed as any other program. It has its own icon in the Application folder and is not part of the Office:Mac folder that has the other apps and junk.

------

One thing that hasn't improved is that both the new Outlook and OneNote are slow to open. Compared almost any other app on my SSD, these take way to long to load for what they do.
 
This is exactly what they're doing, and they do it with iOS too. Developers have made some amazing apps on iOS, but that is a more limited platform. Just like you said, leaving the quality of apps up to third parties is a dangerous bet. Even many of the apps in the MAS are just OS X ports of iOS apps. Heck, even Apple's own core apps are now ports of iOS. And it isn't just economic position that limits third parties. Apple has deep access to OS X technologies that no other company has. THey could develop amazing software, but they've settled with good enough.

Not only that. Small companies are usually comprised of one or two individuals. They do not have the resources to make quality software. If they do, they cannot provide updates quickly. They cannot develop advanced features quickly. They do not have a team to think over the user interface. They are on their own. If they want to close down the company some day and focus on something else, then they do it, and leave lots of users orphans. There is no succession of management.

Apple could make great software, but it doesn't. Microsoft could make as well, and it does, but for Windows. A small developer cannot compete in today's billion-dollar market. Any small developer would suffer to build a better office than Microsoft. Look at the alternatives.

Corel, which is not exactly a small developer, is not being able to compete with Microsoft with its WordPerfect Office. The open source alternatives, even backed by large companies, cannot compete as well.

Honestly, I'm tired of annual updates too. I'd like to stay on one OS for 1.5-2 years and just have bugs ironed out and features enhanced. You barely get accustomed to one OS before the next one is in beta. I updated to Yosemite because iCloud Drive (which was a disappointment), SMS Relay, new notification center, and ability to close iCloud tabs were all features I really wanted. I think I'll stay on Yosemite for a good long time unless OS X 10.11 really brings some power user features I want.

An update every year is fine. But this is no excuse for not improving iWork.

Also, I agree with your point about a lot of Apple's new features. They are nice and value added features, but Apple is focusing too much on them and not on core needs. Either strike a closer deal with Microsoft where Office:Mac will receive regular quality updates or build your own "iWork Pro" and compete. Right now, Apple has made a consumer grade suite and left the power user suite up to Microsoft and they've dropped the ball. There's no denying that Office for Mac could have made it out this year, but other software took priority. I suppose I get that, but they should have allocated more resources. You have a good Office on iPad, iPhone, Windows, Android, and the cloud, but not on Mac. Maybe this will change with Office 2015 and it will receive regular updates like the iOS version has.

I agree. Microsoft could make the Mac platform struggle just by not releasing a new Office for it. Apple should just make a better iWork. Put a couple million dollars on it. It doesn't need heavy enterprise support, just a similar set of features. Come on!
 
Honestly, I'm tired of annual updates too. I'd like to stay on one OS for 1.5-2 years and just have bugs ironed out and features enhanced. You barely get accustomed to one OS before the next one is in beta. I updated to Yosemite because iCloud Drive (which was a disappointment), SMS Relay, new notification center, and ability to close iCloud tabs were all features I really wanted. I think I'll stay on Yosemite for a good long time unless OS X 10.11 really brings some power user features I want.
Annual updates of desktop OSes is a bad trend IMO. A desktop OS needs to be more stable than that. I started owning OSX devices with the introduction of Snow Leopard, and every upgrade after that has obsoleted bits of hardware and software along the way.

There will be those who claim it is the software and hardware vendors' responsibility to maintain compatibility. But I firmly believe that a point upgrade is just that... minor tweaks, bug fixes, and optimizations that should not break basic things. I'm tired of having to replace scanners and seek out alternative applications because of an OSX update.

Both my iMac and MBA shipped with Mavericks. They're staying at Mavericks period. When the time comes that a software package I need requires a new version of OSX, that is the time I'll look at alternatives. I'm willing to pay a premium price for a premium experience, but if I want headaches upgrading an OS, I'll switch to Windows. :)
 
Not only that. Small companies are usually comprised of one or two individuals. They do not have the resources to make quality software. If they do, they cannot provide updates quickly. They cannot develop advanced features quickly. They do not have a team to think over the user interface. They are on their own. If they want to close down the company some day and focus on something else, then they do it, and leave lots of users orphans. There is no succession of management.

... snip ...

I agree. Microsoft could make the Mac platform struggle just by not releasing a new Office for it. Apple should just make a better iWork. Put a couple million dollars on it. It doesn't need heavy enterprise support, just a similar set of features. Come on!

If Apple put a few million into iWork, people like you still wouldn't be happy. It's not the same as office. You've been offered many different solutions in this thread and you've shot each one of them down. From your many posts in this discussion, Office is your single most important criterion for choosing a computer. Why you're still on a Mac forum is beyond me. Buy a PC, sell the MBP. Yeah, you'll have to use a crappy plastic PC but it doesn't matter. You need to choose the solution that works best for you. No matter what Apple or Microsoft does, you're not going to be happy. Office for Mac is always going to be less than the PC product. You need to accept that.

The fact is that you're a minority. The idea of passing around some sort of proprietary file for edits and long-term storage is coming to an end. There are much better solutions out there but you're right. They're not like Office. Get a new computer, learn new software, or get a different job. Those are your options unfortunately.

Don't get me wrong, I'd love a new excel. But the one they have now works fine. I can do the rest of my work in Stata which is a way better statistical tool than the best version of excel. You'll need to find a solution because keeping this thread going isn't going to fix it.
 
For anyone that has installed the new Outlook:

One thing I hate about Office 2011 is all the extra junk they put in my /Applications folder. Espacially the Applications/Microsoft Office 2011/Office which consists of tons of framework files that always want to pop up when I do spotlight searches. Is this still the case with 2015 or have they improved?

I don't know. But my new Outlook has just crashed. So, I suppose it's the same crappy thing with a facelift.
 
If Apple put a few million into iWork, people like you still wouldn't be happy. It's not the same as office. You've been offered many different solutions in this thread and you've shot each one of them down. From your many posts in this discussion, Office is your single most important criterion for choosing a computer. Why you're still on a Mac forum is beyond me. Buy a PC, sell the MBP. Yeah, you'll have to use a crappy plastic PC but it doesn't matter. You need to choose the solution that works best for you. No matter what Apple or Microsoft does, you're not going to be happy. Office for Mac is always going to be less than the PC product. You need to accept that.

I am fine with the fact that Office for Mac is not as good as Office for PC. I know I won't get Access or Publisher or Visio on the Mac. And that's fine. What is not fine is that Office keeps crushing. That the language tools of Word do not work anymore. That it uses an incredible amount of RAM. That two years after the release of a Windows version, there is not even a public beta of its Mac counterpart.

I could use iWork if it were good. iWork opens well Microsoft Office files. However, there are features that are simply unavailable. And those are features that are simple. There aren't real alternatives. What alternatives are left? Open source software and iWork. This lack of alternatives is simply incredible.

Office is important for me because it is the software I use most. I cannot get rid of it, and it is really better than the proposed alternatives. In the past, there were software that worked as well as Office. Now, there is not.

The fact is that you're a minority. The idea of passing around some sort of proprietary file for edits and long-term storage is coming to an end. There are much better solutions out there but you're right. They're not like Office. Get a new computer, learn new software, or get a different job. Those are your options unfortunately.

I am not sure I am a minority. And I doubt there are better solutions out there. There are solutions that integrate better between devices, this is true. But they do not make work necessarily easier. If I need to produce very complex text, for instance, full of footnotes and cross-references, and complex numbering, and indexing, I will need Microsoft Word. I don't know how simpler and integrated solutions that work accross a variety of platforms would help with that. So, better is very relative. If you need only simple things, then it would be nice to sync simple files accross the iPhone, the iPad, the Mac and the computer at the office. But if you need something more complicated, it won't work out.

I work in an environment that uses Microsoft Office and I know thousands of people who depend on Office for doing their work. Office is standard on corporations and they are not getting rid of it.

As for my options:

Getting a different job is out of question. I studied several years for this one, and I have a PhD on it. I won't get a different job to earn less than half I do.

Learning different software. I tried that. Simpler software does not work for me. I need complicated features, they make my life easier. Not having those features mean that I will need several more hours to make the document behave the way I need it to.

Getting a different computer would be a solution. But then I look at the crappy plastic PCs and they are horrible. I live in Brazil and there are no premium laptops for sale here apart from Macs. They are all very low-end, with terrible low-resolution screens, terrible keyboards and plasticky feel. They are the crap of the crap, the very low end of what you have in the U.S.
 
I am fine with the fact that Office for Mac is not as good as Office for PC. I know I won't get Access or Publisher or Visio on the Mac. And that's fine. What is not fine is that Office keeps crushing. That the language tools of Word do not work anymore. That it uses an incredible amount of RAM. That two years after the release of a Windows version, there is not even a public beta of its Mac counterpart.

I could use iWork if it were good. iWork opens well Microsoft Office files. However, there are features that are simply unavailable. And those are features that are simple. There aren't real alternatives. What alternatives are left? Open source software and iWork. This lack of alternatives is simply incredible.

Office is important for me because it is the software I use most. I cannot get rid of it, and it is really better than the proposed alternatives. In the past, there were software that worked as well as Office. Now, there is not.



I am not sure I am a minority. And I doubt there are better solutions out there. There are solutions that integrate better between devices, this is true. But they do not make work necessarily easier. If I need to produce very complex text, for instance, full of footnotes and cross-references, and complex numbering, and indexing, I will need Microsoft Word. I don't know how simpler and integrated solutions that work accross a variety of platforms would help with that. So, better is very relative. If you need only simple things, then it would be nice to sync simple files accross the iPhone, the iPad, the Mac and the computer at the office. But if you need something more complicated, it won't work out.

I work in an environment that uses Microsoft Office and I know thousands of people who depend on Office for doing their work. Office is standard on corporations and they are not getting rid of it.

As for my options:

Getting a different job is out of question. I studied several years for this one, and I have a PhD on it. I won't get a different job to earn less than half I do.

Learning different software. I tried that. Simpler software does not work for me. I need complicated features, they make my life easier. Not having those features mean that I will need several more hours to make the document behave the way I need it to.

Getting a different computer would be a solution. But then I look at the crappy plastic PCs and they are horrible. I live in Brazil and there are no premium laptops for sale here apart from Macs. They are all very low-end, with terrible low-resolution screens, terrible keyboards and plasticky feel. They are the crap of the crap, the very low end of what you have in the U.S.

So your plan is just to complain about it? To decry Macs as "unprofessional" and compare features such as SMS relay to an Office Suite - one that Apple has no control over? I guess I don't see how that helps anything.
 
So your plan is just to complain about it? To decry Macs as "unprofessional" and compare features such as SMS relay to an Office Suite - one that Apple has no control over? I guess I don't see how that helps anything.

I would not be complaining if Microsoft had released Office for Mac in H2 2014, or promised it for early 2015. Or if Apple had released a better version of iWork together with Yosemite. But nothing of it happened.

Now I do what I can. I run Windows on Parallels so I can run Office 2013. And I do run Office 2011 for Mac.

It does not help to complain. Or perhaps Apple will listen to its customers and release a better iWork sometime.
 
I would not be complaining if Microsoft had released Office for Mac in H2 2014, or promised it for early 2015. Or if Apple had released a better version of iWork together with Yosemite. But nothing of it happened.



Now I do what I can. I run Windows on Parallels so I can run Office 2013. And I do run Office 2011 for Mac.



It does not help to complain. Or perhaps Apple will listen to its customers and release a better iWork sometime.


Apple won't read this thread.....
 
So your plan is just to complain about it? To decry Macs as "unprofessional" and compare features such as SMS relay to an Office Suite - one that Apple has no control over? I guess I don't see how that helps anything.

Well, I took your advice and gave software another try these last few days. I decided to check some other solution that could meet my needs. I began with finding a replacement to Microsoft Word, which is the piece of software that I use most.

To avoid becoming locked in an ecosystem, I tried to use word processors that used Markdown and MultiMarkdown. Well, I tried iA Writer, iA Writer Pro, Byword, Ulysses, OmmWriter Dãna, Marko, Writedown!, Kobito, MultiMarkdown Composer, MacDown, Mou and Texts. Nearly everything I could find.

The main issue was that I use a lot of footnotes. And I must export the file to Microsoft Word format before submitting it to third parties, especially publishers, who invariably only accept Word format (or at least refuse to accept another format because I am no important writer myself).

The problem is when I convert footnotes to Word format. Most of the time, footnotes are not treated as footnotes in the converted Word file, but as some sort of links, and they have an arrow.

I found two pieces of software that could convert footnotes properly. One is Ulysses, but it doesn't keep the styles I use; plus, it uses some sort of proprietary Markdown XL. The other one is Texts, but it seems to only recognize the footnotes it creates, and I had trouble opening files written in other Markdown software.

The conclusion is, I could not find a single piece of software that met my requirements. The tested software was usually poor and feature-less. Having a large company, with lots of resources, developing the software, seems to make a lot of difference indeed.
 
And no comment on this... Ir seems like Word is the only alternative for those who need complex documents. I am compelled to try something else, but the options are not that wide. It seems to me that there are more scriptwriting software available for Mac than word processors...
 
Pixels vs Points font issue not fixed?

I have Outlook 2011 installed, but don't use it because of the pixels vs points issue when emailing to/from Windows Outlook. I see in this blurb from MS that this issue is still not fixed with the update for Outlook that just came out.

Is this right?

"Email messages that are sent from Microsoft Outlook for Mac for Office 365 or Outlook for Mac 2011 to other operating systems may have with a different font size than the original email message font size.

For example, when text that has Calibri font size 14 is sent from Outlook for Mac to Microsoft Outlook for Windows or Outlook Web App, the text may be displayed as a font size other than 14 when the message is received on the other operating system."

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2783553
 
I have Outlook 2011 installed, but don't use it because of the pixels vs points issue when emailing to/from Windows Outlook. I see in this blurb from MS that this issue is still not fixed with the update for Outlook that just came out.

Is this right?

"Email messages that are sent from Microsoft Outlook for Mac for Office 365 or Outlook for Mac 2011 to other operating systems may have with a different font size than the original email message font size.

For example, when text that has Calibri font size 14 is sent from Outlook for Mac to Microsoft Outlook for Windows or Outlook Web App, the text may be displayed as a font size other than 14 when the message is received on the other operating system."

http://support.microsoft.com/kb/2783553


I was not aware of this issue, but it seems to be quite a deal breaker for anyone using Outlook on a professional basis.
 
And what about the next Office version? It was supposed to be Office 2014. I heard September. Historically, all Office versions released in the second half of the year are named after the following year. If the next Office is released in September, will it be Office 2015 then?

What do you think?

There is a new version of Office for Mac coming out by end of this year. its true it was supposed to be launched in September but they couldn't keep up with their deadlines. last time I was informed it was supposed to be launched by end of the year (I am assuming December since we haven't seen it yet.
also, Microsoft Technet Library is already working on updating their threads with Microsoft enterprise services if compatible with the new office for Mac or not.
please visit the following link http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj739831.aspx

So there is hope :)

Ammar R. Hassan
Cloud Solution Specialist
 
There is a new version of Office for Mac coming out by end of this year. its true it was supposed to be launched in September but they couldn't keep up with their deadlines. last time I was informed it was supposed to be launched by end of the year (I am assuming December since we haven't seen it yet.

you might want to read the other 24 pages of this thread.
 
There is a new version of Office for Mac coming out by end of this year. its true it was supposed to be launched in September but they couldn't keep up with their deadlines. last time I was informed it was supposed to be launched by end of the year (I am assuming December since we haven't seen it yet.
also, Microsoft Technet Library is already working on updating their threads with Microsoft enterprise services if compatible with the new office for Mac or not.
please visit the following link http://technet.microsoft.com/en-us/library/jj739831.aspx

So there is hope :)

Ammar R. Hassan
Cloud Solution Specialist

Thanks for the link. It is interesting to see that Microsoft is already referring to the next Office version for Mac as "Microsoft Office 2015 for Mac".

You should have noted, though, that Microsoft announced the next Mac Office for the second half of 2015 when it released the newest Outlook.
 
But I firmly believe that a point upgrade is just that... minor tweaks, bug fixes, and optimizations that should not break basic things.

Regardless of the actual version number, each yearly Apple release is a major release, not a "point upgrade". Minor or "point upgrades" are in the form of 10.10.[1-9]
 
Regardless of the actual version number, each yearly Apple release is a major release, not a "point upgrade". Minor or "point upgrades" are in the form of 10.10.[1-9]
It's a matter of semantics.

Traditionally (even for Apple except for OSX), going from 9.0 to 10.0 is a major upgrade. Going from 9.1 to 9.2 is a "point upgrade".

Using the number to the right of the decimal to indicate a major release is inconsistent with the rest of the industry. I understand why Apple does it. It is a psychological move to get people to upgrade.

There's also an inconsistency in the user community in how these major releases are viewed.
 
It's a matter of semantics.



Traditionally (even for Apple except for OSX), going from 9.0 to 10.0 is a major upgrade. Going from 9.1 to 9.2 is a "point upgrade".



Using the number to the right of the decimal to indicate a major release is inconsistent with the rest of the industry. I understand why Apple does it. It is a psychological move to get people to upgrade.



There's also an inconsistency in the user community in how these major releases are viewed.


Perhaps the OS 11 will be a very major release, such as the transition to OS X.
 
My view is that the leading 10 (Eg 10.10.1) no longer has anything to do with versioning anymore, it's just branding.
True, that is how Apple is using it.

Another side effect of major updates annually... it relieves Apple of having to address outstanding bugs in the previous release or support those releases.

To the best of my knowledge, Apple isn't putting out fixes for Mountain Lion. That's a desktop OS that is only 2 years old and now abandoned.

If users experiences problems with ML Apple's response is to upgrade to the latest version of OSX supported by the hardware, or buy new hardware.

I've wandered off topic enough, trying to get it back on track...

The iOS-ification of OSX is a bad move by Apple IMO and is exactly the opposite direction to go in for making inroads in the corporate enterprise. But it might explain one of the reasons why Microsoft is pushing toward a subscription model for Office...

Every year Apple will put out another release of OSX. That new release will break SOMETHING (big or small). Microsoft responds with an update to Office that is supported on that latest version of OSX. Shrinkwrapped owners of Office could be left stranded... giving a greater push toward the subscription model.
 
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