Become a MacRumors Supporter for $50/year with no ads, ability to filter front page stories, and private forums.
Apple finished the day with greater market cap than Microsoft. I think the headline needs to be updated.
 
  • Like
Reactions: David G.
Can someone explain how Apple got to $1T (and were still there a couple months ago) in the first place if they’re doomed and their products suck so bad?
Well, there certainly is a lot of emotionally-charged hyperbole with regard to Apple's corporate health.

There are many factors that resulted in Apple becoming a $1T company. I don't think anyone can point out one factor as primary.

I don't think it is disputable that Apple worked hard to cultivate the reputation they have. It's a reputation that is not particularly built on having the highest spec'd devices in the market areas they compete in. Nor was it built on having the most functions and features.

For the longest while they produced simple products that simply worked. Their products didn't do MORE than their competition but what they did, they did BETTER than the competition.

Apple is not doomed. They haven't entered the "beginning of the end" phase yet. But they're at a crossroad.
It is no small matter that Apple is going to cease reporting unit sales. One may justify it as "well, they're just doing what other companies do" but it ignores the fact that Apple used to do that and now it isn't.

Apple is currently riding and exploiting the reputation momentum they've built up. This is a fiscally wise thing to do (from a corporate perspective). But with each turn of the money-making handle, a bit of the reputation is eroded. That doesn't immediately appear on a corporate balance sheet, but after a few cycles when it does, it is often more significant than initially thought.

Anyone who has ever played the classic Lunar Lander game knows that you have to keep an eagle eye on your descent rate... if you let it go a few seconds too long, it then takes significantly more fuel to adjust than had the adjustment been made a few seconds earlier. It's the same principle here.
 
Apple made $60B profit in 2018.

Microsoft made $23B in profit in 2018.

Apple is a much cheaper stock relative to their earnings. Stocks go up and down. Apple is the stronger company and the stock is buy now.
While you care more about how Apple can rip off it’s customers, I, as a customer, am more caring about the value for money Apple is giving me. The last couple of years it’s close to zero. Well done!
 
Last edited:
Untrue. For awhile macs were competitively priced with other top end hardware. Now it’s just insane.
Not spec for spec they weren't. Apple has always had less RAM, less HDD space, lower end graphics cards, or integrated graphics at a price point where PC makers include a dedicated card. I agree they've gone from bad to worse. But they were never good on price. And AppleCare was also 50-100% more than a comparable PC extended warranty. We used to take solace in the fact that Macs lasted forever. But with the keyboard troubles now, has that even gone away.
 
Exactly. Although. With the amount of cash that Apple has, they could absolutely invest in a next best thing. Unfortunately, the only thing that Cook knows to do with it is to buy back Apple’s shares.

How was TSLA able to climb back out of the hole it was in just a month ago, when it seemed that it was about to go under? The answer is that Wall Street saw the growth potential in Tesla vehicle volumes going forward after their last quarterly report. They barely made any money, but the stock completely recovered after having dropped by a third.

Apple needs to come out with something new not just for the stock price but also because the iPhone volumes have definitely stagnated, and raising the ASP only works for so long. Wall Street understands that Apple cannot raise ASP much longer to keep the profits rising. That strategy is a dead end, and Cook has just painted Apple in the corner with that strategy.

I can come up with a better strategy without ever having served as an executive. How about buying Tesla? It’s a better strategy than raising ASP on iPhones and buying back AAPL shares.
 
Pretty much knew Apple is in trouble when they announced they won't announce sales figures anymore. Apple have always had a premium, but turning Apple into a luxury brand hasn't been the best decision. You cannot charge $750 for the "cheap and affordable" iPhone. It seems Apple just keeps testing their price elasticity with their base and see how far they can charge for their products, and it's gone too far now.

It's easy to see what's wrong with Apple today, and I honestly feel like it's easy to fix, especially with the cash in hand that Apple has. What people inside Apple might not realize, is that competition has caught up. What made people buy Macs and Macbooks was the clear advantage in quality they had over Windows machines; you'd look at a Windows laptop from the 2009 or 2010 and it's a mess of plastic garbage, with virus-filled Windows, while Macbooks from that era were way ahead! Today, most laptops are just as good as Macbooks in terms of quality and design, if not better, and Apple didn't step it up. Same with the iPhone, as it felt like worth the premium over the plastics of Samsung and Motorola, but Samsung kept improving.

The truth is that Apple has clearly been lazy in the past few years, and put all their energy in one basket, which is the iPhone. Mac design has stagnated, and they look clueless on what to do with the Mac. The iPad feels like it's lost between two worlds and doesn't know what purpose it holds. The Watch is killing it right now, but again, competition will catch up sooner or later.

Sadly, I personally feel like this executive team have become too out of touch with reality. They think they can charge anything they want, they think they can rely on supply chain to make new products, and they think competition is still far behind.
 
If they publish the most hated OS, Microsoft would take the lead again.
Apple, as big as it's failures might've been, is still the best in terms of usability, optimization, and longevity of their products. Microsoft is a piece of garbage - a medieval company with no respect for anyone. I wish they could just vanish forever!

P.S. Craig Federighi for CEO!
 
  • Like
Reactions: sirozha
Sucks you can’t afford it! Go to dollar tree, I’m sure there are plenty of off brand phones you can get for cheap.

Apple is never entry level. It’s a premium brand like Gucci, Canada Goose, or Mercedes.

If you can’t shell a measly $749 for quality, get a Honda Accord!

You can buy an iPhone at Walmart - your argument immediately fails.

Also, if someone doesn't want to spend x amount on a device it doesn't necessarily equate to a lack of disposable income. That's simply a lack of nuanced thinking on your part.
 
Where were all you "good on Microsoft" folk when they shipped Windows 10 1809 and it deleted the My Documents folder? Where were you during the Azure MFA debacle of last week which left millions of O365 accounts unusable for the better part of a whole work day?

If Apple's OS and services would experience such an outage with such widespread ramifications, then all hell would break loose.

Microsoft being the top dog is a temporary fluke caused by the current market situation. They will not be up there for long.
Thing is, if it happened with Apple only 5 in 100 would know anything about it
 
  • Like
Reactions: OdT22
Probably correct, but that doesn't change the underlying concern. Apple is about quality products that integrate.

I'm currently working on a MacBook Pro (2017) and a Mac Mini (2014) with connectivity to/from an iPad (2017) and iPhone 8+. Data is backed up to a TimeCapsule. Working files are sync'd via iCloud. Photos and Home Movies are shared to an TV.

It's this unique approach to integration and handoff that is one big driver for buying into (and staying in) the Apple ecosystem. As Apple drops the supporting components (e.g. AirPort TimeCapsule) they begin to erode the usefulness.
Right but not everyone is deep in the Apple's ecosystem so it's more to a niche market than anything.
[doublepost=1543268444][/doublepost]
Maybe because Steve put quality over profit?

That aside, hard to say if Apple would have become most valuable US company as its natural course regardless of who the CEO was. Given all the mistakes of late (software security bugs, crappy MBP keyboard etc), I think so.
Apple has always had quality issues in the SJ era, do I need to point some of them?
 
  • Like
Reactions: Awesom-0
Not spec for spec they weren't. Apple has always had less RAM, less HDD space, lower end graphics cards, or integrated graphics at a price point where PC makers include a dedicated card. I agree they've gone from bad to worse. But they were never good on price. And AppleCare was also 50-100% more than a comparable PC extended warranty. We used to take solace in the fact that Macs lasted forever. But with the keyboard troubles now, has that even gone away.

Isn't this always what happens when you put an accountant in charge? Tim's forte is counting pennies, forcing suppliers to reduce component costs. He is not a product person as Steve was. And sales guys fare no better: see John Sculley or Steve Ballmer.

WHAT is Apple doing with the tens of billions in R&D costs? Coming up with another HomePod? The company needs to actually innovate, not raise prices on its already overpriced and underpowered products. And Tim, while you're at it, would you mind not shortsightedly killing every product which doesn't yield iPhone-level profits? See Time Capsule, Xserve, Server, etc.

Jesus, how dumb is Apple's management? It's time to fire everyone on the Executive Team over 40, they've grown too old, rich, complacent, and unimaginative. Bill Gates wanted every customer. He recognized that once he got them into the Microsoft ecosystem, it would be easier to keep them buying more Microsoft products, and he was right. Why can't Apple's Executive Team see that? You want EVERY customer, and that means updating the Macs regularly, and not killing products just because they don't sell well. You want to meet every need, and fill every niche, so when a customer discovers a new need, they'll look at Apple first because they're already invested.

And stop charging more for an iPhone than for a goddamn real computer. Isn't Apple embarrassed to be SO greedy?
 
After using Apple products for nearly 30 years, I'm bemused by all of the complaints about how expensive Apple products are.

I guess few who complain are old enough to remember what the first Macintoshes cost (and what that means in 2018 dollars). Another thing, Apple has always overcharged for the storage/memory bumps, even when Steve was healthy and thriving.

I do believe Apple did get "fat and happy," and that they have alienated their professional users a few too many times. The products that are rolling out since the "mea culpa" are steps in the right direction.
Listen, you're right and I agree that Apple's prices have always been crazy high, the thing we're talking about now is how they show in your face how they just care about charging huge amounts of money for a product that comes with defects and it's completely not worth it compared to their 1 year older generation products. What we talk is that Apple sets the pricing trends, and if they continue to do so we're seeing $2500 starting prices for a greedy phone with 64GB of storage.
Let's not forget about the 21.5" iMacs that are still being sold with a 5400RPM HDD!
Simple as that.
 
  • Like
Reactions: jinnyman and femike
Microsoft and Apple are now competing for the most valuable company title with the lead company shifting back and forth.

I'm sure of three things:

1. Neither company is "competing" for this position.
2. It doesn't matter.
3. This is the exact sort of drivel to expect from the author.
[doublepost=1543269643][/doublepost]
Dear me. Get yourself some some dignity. :oops:

Is that like Tsum Tsum dignity?
 
Good for Microsoft. Although I don't like/use any of their products, I have really liked their approach under the new CEO and I think they are a valuable competitor to Apple moving forward.
I'm with you on that. I'm really surprised and impressed with the work they've been doing the last few years. Windows has gotten much better, their hardware is really decent and they continue to release good apps for iOS and the Mac.
 
Apple evidently feels that the value from the ecosystem will be a more precise measure of consumer engagement than the number of handsets sold. Apple has always been way ahead of most corporations in seeing where the curve is going, and no doubt they anticipate (rightly or wrongly) that over the next year or two, reporting handset sales will be passé, and not least because people try to compare Apple with other manufacturers on that measurement despite extremely grey figures from Apple's rivals (where it's not always clear whether such reports refer to handsets sent to store or those actually sold to consumers).

Is it exactly a bad thing that I hold on to my iPhone a bit longer and don't upgrade, considering I'm still spending money via the App Store, Apple Pay and so forth? There are many factors beyond Apple innovation as to why I don't upgrade, including the looming financial crash. This does not reflect my loyalty to Apple (and I'm still buying other Apple hardware).

That said, it feels plain odd that Apple would reverse transparency when it otherwise seems invested in opening up about its corporate policy, but that doesn't mean Apple is wrong here. On balance, with all the regular reports trying to compare Apple with "Android" (not even exactly equivalent, despite what the hacks say), I'm not surprised that Apple has had enough of those silly metrics, which people constantly misapprehend anyway.

They need to tidy their product line-up (new MacBook Air heavier than MacBook??) but that will be resolved over the coming weeks.
 
Register on MacRumors! This sidebar will go away, and you'll see fewer ads.