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Microsoft Piles -- er Stacks?

Originally posted by tychay
Getting back on topic. Clearly if Apple owns the patent on Piles than the description of this minor addition to Longhorn sounds like an obvious violation. Microsoft either licensed Piles from Apple or feels they can weather or pay off the lawsuit. Don't count out the former! Piles is old stuff and I seem to remember there was some IP exchange as part of the IE on Mac for Office on Mac and a few million bucks red herring thing from way back. For all we know, Microsoft can cherry pick Piles from the Apple...
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Oh yeah, the topic... I think you're right on this one-- I can't remember when the patent was filed, but I think Apple settled with MS and they licensed all their current IP (current at the time) to the Beast.

I guess technically it wasn't copied, it was extorted.. 😉
 
Re: Here are some visuals of Longhorn

Originally posted by hokka
http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=14694&category=main

haha, it's leaked already... and they've ripped off the Panther metallic look already!!!
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My, what big buttons you have!

Where are you supposed to work? I think the reason Longhorn keeps slipping is because MS is waiting for 40" CRTs...

I love the "you have 60 days to activate Windows" tag at the bottom there... 🙂
 
Exellent, exellent post!

One look at the early previews of Longhorn, and it's clear that Microsoft STILL hasn't learned anything!😀

Sidebar??? What for? In all the screenshots I've seen, 80% of the "sidebar" is empty - just a huge waste of pixels!


_A_



Originally posted by Analog Kid
I don't think anyone will argue with you about needing more pixels... That's one of the reasons I hate menu-per-window in Windows, and one of the reason I hate all the metal trim on the new Finder...

I personally won't disagree about cmd-tab being broken in past releases. This is the first workable cmd-tab for Mac that I've seen.

I do start to disagree about the "bloat" in Exposé and FUS though.

One of the principles of Apple design is to make sure the user follows you through what's happening. You'll notice things never just "snap" into place-- they always slide. When a user lets go of something and it suddenly "snaps" to a different location there's a momentary panic as the user tries to figure out what happened. It breaks the flow.

If you ever used Interface Builder, I noticed that if you just click an item on a palette that is meant to be dragged instead, it jiggles. Cute, right? But it also tells you "I move. Don't click me, move me".

Show Desktop might clear the desktop, but when you click it, there's the "where did everything go" lag while you reorient to your new environment. Did it close all my apps, or just minimize them? If they're minimized, which icon represents the app I'm interested in?

Exposé makes sure the user is following what is going on. You know everything slid off screen when you look at the desktop. You know where your windows are in the stackup when they slide out to tile and then back again. They tile according to their relative sizes, so you don't lose that visual clue as you would with a 'simple' tiling-- everything is as you remember it, albeit a bit smaller.

Same holds for FUS. While that cube is rotating, you're orienting yourself to the new desktop. You know the desktop that is leaving hasn't been closed-- it's being rotated out. You are remembering where things were left on the new one.

The quick strobe and change is faster as far as getting the desktop drawn, but not faster for the user who has just gotten flashed in the face and now has a new view to adjust to and possibly a bunch of questions about what just happened.

Don't confuse speed with productivity-- just because something happens more quickly doesn't mean you can get more done in less time. Often the opposite is true. The brain is well adapted to the physical world where things happen in continuum, not instantaneously.

As far as the use of resources, one of the beauties of Quartz extreme is that most of this makes use of the largely unused graphics processor-- so it is hardly wasting useful resources.

I'm running without QE (iMac 400) and I find it perfectly workable- a momentary blip to 20% cpu usage for Exposé and FUS unfortunately doesn't bother with the cube.

People often refer to Apple's UI style as "eye candy", but there is very little that they do that without purpose. It's probably better phrased "instinct candy", because it's a group of niceties that appeal to your instincts more than to your eyes.
Click to expand...
 
Strange screenshots...
- have you ever seen a cow standing in a field of corn like the default desktop implies?
- they have two total different styles of clickable things in their ctr-alt-del screen: shutdown and cancel at the bottom and logoff and the others in the middle
 
Originally posted by xtekdiver
A bit off topic, but speaking of this issue, I am somewhat new to OS X and havn't figured out how to get to my desktop quickly when I have loads of stuff open. Any sugg? Expose is awsome and worth the price of the upgrade, but is there anyway to collaps all open apps?
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Hold down Apple + option keys then click on the finder icon in the dock. all apps are hidden.

this could be your tip of the day.

by the way... windows sucks sh*t
 
No not really 🙂

What is this 'trolling' you all speak of.

Originally posted by Analog Kid

I use those OS's plus Solaris, HPUX, VAX and Palm. Oh, and I've written a proprietary GUI for embedded devices... Does that make my opinion more valid? 😉

I know that wasn't cool, just couldn't resist... You called me a fanatic first though... 😛
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similarity is a synonym for copy.
Originally posted by Rower_CPU
Is it a "copy" because the are similar? Seeing as how they achieve the effect in completely different ways, I still don't see it...especially when Apple has had similar functionality all through OS X via different means, as others have already pointed out.

Again, if you've used Exposé you know how powerful this feature is as a UI feature. Have you used it?

As for your other remark, no, it's what you'd expect of fans of an OS to say about their system. I'd say there are a lot of people here who have assessed their needs and seen that OS X is what makes the best sense for them. Quit trolling.
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Originally posted by greenstork
There are intelligent responses, and there are trolls. Go back to /. troll.

How can I justify this comment. Ask yourself one question. If you didn't think Mac OS X is light years ahead of Windows, why are you posting to a rumor site that focuses on the latest Apple innovations?
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I can't help but contrast this to the post from jxyama just a few before:
without making it personal, i'll say one thing. if you are willing to dismiss anyone who doesn't agree with you as a "non expert" and not worth a read, then it's clearly not possible to have an intelligent discussion.
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Yes, it really is a little too much to expect to have "intelligent" discussion about the good and bad parts of a system, isn't it? Here's a hint. Just because someone has something critical to say, that doesn't make them a troll.

-Richard
 
As far as this "piles" or "stacks" idea goes, I remember a third party app from about 10 years ago that was on my PowerBook 190 that created "stacks" from files that you dragged together. It was not an Apple or a Microsoft product. I wish I could remember the name of it. I'll investigate tonight.
 
Originally posted by rjstanford
I can't help but contrast this to the post from jxyama just a few before:Yes, it really is a little too much to expect to have "intelligent" discussion about the good and bad parts of a system, isn't it? Here's a hint. Just because someone has something critical to say, that doesn't make them a troll.

-Richard
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Have you read the guys posts, he's obviously trolling.

Just look at his two posts directly above the one I am quoting. He's writing inflammatory posts, contrary to popular opinion, on the forum to incite people. Someone needs to call this out every now and then.

I would suggest that if you going to introduce a contrarian opinion that you should have something intelligent to say to back it up. And if you read my posts from the beginning of this thread, you'd see that I am just as critical of Apple zealots as the next guy.

Someone is a troll when they haven't used the features in question but are quick to point out that it is a copy of Windows (edit: specifically expose), think about it.
 
Originally posted by Shadey
Fast User Switching. Neat little tool that has been in Windows XP since it's release.
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And has been in Unix since forever.
Keep trolling!
I wanna see what else you can come up with!
 
UNIX troll

Originally posted by Fukui
And has been in Unix since forever.
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Please explain how in the X Window System to suspend a desktop, log in as a new, different user with a new desktop, then switch back and forth with the original desktop.

And, BTW, "forever" in UNIX includes a time when the ASR-33 teletype was the most popular interface. Please explain "fast user switching" at 110 baud !
 
Originally posted by 1macker1
similarity is a synonym for copy.
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Uh, no its not.
Similarity implies that something JUST SO HAPPENED to be...uh similar.

Copying implies a direct intention to make something EXACTLY the same.

If I say that, "Oh, these clouds are similar to the ones in my home town," you can't change that sentence to say, "Oh, these clouds are copied from my home town," it doesn't make any sense boooyyeeee!

They are not synonyms, if that were so, I could interchange those words at any place and the meaning will be the same, here its not. Therefore you are wrong.

And secondly, if apple copied MS, then don't you think they would have put a button on the menu-bar or something that you clicked, and all it did was hide all the windows? Oh, thats not what it does...silly me....🙄

Expose doesn't hide anything, it SHOWS all you windows, again, it doesn't hide your windows like on Windows, it EXPOSES them.

😱
 
Originally posted by Fukui
And has been in Unix since forever.
Keep trolling!
I wanna see what else you can come up with!
Click to expand...

Troll this, troll, that, who gives a f@ck?!

I was mearly pointing out that everyone copies, hardly any innovation. Don't put Apple up on a pedestal just because you use an i_________.

And last I looked, Unix was a text-based OS, not a GUI one.
 
Re: UNIX troll

Originally posted by AidenShaw
Please explain how in the X Window System to suspend a desktop, log in as a new, different user with a new desktop, then switch back and forth with the original desktop.

And, BTW, "forever" in UNIX includes a time when the ASR-33 teletype was the most popular interface. Please explain "fast user switching" at 110 baud !
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I was waiting for you to show up.

1) I didn't say X Windows.
2) In Unix you can just fire up a shell and login as anyone you want, startup programs as any user, as long as you have authentication...it actually better in some ways because you can mix and match apps on the same desktop as other users.
3) Virtual Desktops are akin to user switching.
4) "Forever" was a exaggeration...I think you know better...but I guess not.
 
Originally posted by Shadey
Troll this, troll, that, who gives a f@ck?!

I was mearly pointing out that everyone copies, hardly any innovation. Don't put Apple up on a pedestal just because you use an i_________.

And last I looked, Unix was a text-based OS, not a GUI one.
Click to expand...
Hmm, Okay....
You could have just said, "Look, everyone borrows ideas and even copies from others, just look at XP it has had that since it was released." That is true. Steve Jobs even admitted it!!
Originally posted by Shadey
Troll this, troll, that, who gives a f@ck?!
Click to expand...
And your calling me the troll.
 
Originally posted by Phil Of Mac
One intuitive feature I love is when you type an incorrect password into the Mac OS, the dialog box will actually shake from side to side like it's shaking its head. That's cute! But it's also functional.
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...and another example of the superior UI of the Mac OS. In Windows, if you type in an incorrect password, a dialog pops up that either has to be clicked on or Enter pressed to get rid of before I can try my password again. In Mac OS, a quick shake, and I'm right back at the input field, ready to start typing.

And to everyone who thinks they can gloat and prance about proclaiming "Windows had FUS first! Windows had FUS first!" -- please stop.

It really is embarrassing to see a behemoth like Microsoft with tens of thousands of employees and millions upon millions of dollars invested in "R&D" come up with one, ONE development that was worthy for Apple to borrow from. I just sit here and say "What? Is that all you got? Is that all you have to show from all your resources, yet your MDI is a pain to use, your UI methodologies are useless and your consistency is nonexistent."

Microsoft is still a "wait by the sidelines and copy whatever looks good that comes along" company. The fact that they came up with this one good idea is tragic, embarrassing and pitiful. You are not impressing anyone by pointing that fact out.
 
he he... can't stay away...

fast user switching, the way it's impremented, is a copy of XP. not much question about that and i think jobs even talked in some interview alluding to the fact it's a good feature of XP that will be incorporated into panther. (i don't have a source, looked around a bit in google and hence, i could be completely wrong.)

the lack of fast user switching was particularly strange in X to begin with because it's UNIX at its core, which is natively simultaneous multi-user OS.

key distinction is the fact you can have a desktop personalized for each user. being able to run shell scripts for other people on the same desktop as in UNIX doesn't really count, i'd say...

i personally think it's done better in panther since it takes a little less steps and you can switch to the new user without going to the full login menu.

of course, that is to be expected because panther came out after XP. i imagine M$ will fine tune it for longhorn. i'm no authority, but i think you deserve to be called a mac zealot if you couldn't see that the fast user switching was pretty much taken from XP.

M$ does come up with pretty good stuff once in a while. fast user switching is one. scroll wheel mouse is another i can think of off the top of my head. i'm sure there are others.

i still think expose is a pretty darn good implementation of better windows management. i couldn't care less who invented first, but i sure am glad apple implemented to my satisfaction and making it a very useful function in panther.
 
Originally posted by jxyama
he he... can't stay away...

fast user switching, the way it's impremented, is a copy of XP. not much question about that and i think jobs even talked in some interview alluding to the fact it's a good feature of XP that will be incorporated into panther. (i don't have a source, looked around a bit in google and hence, i could be completely wrong.)

the lack of fast user switching was particularly strange in X to begin with because it's UNIX at its core, which is natively simultaneous multi-user OS.

key distinction is the fact you can have a desktop personalized for each user. being able to run shell scripts for other people on the same desktop as in UNIX doesn't really count, i'd say...

i personally think it's done better in panther since it takes a little less steps and you can switch to the new user without going to the full login menu.

of course, that is to be expected because panther came out after XP. i imagine M$ will fine tune it for longhorn. i'm no authority, but i think you deserve to be called a mac zealot if you couldn't see that the fast user switching was pretty much taken from XP.

M$ does come up with pretty good stuff once in a while. fast user switching is one. scroll wheel mouse is another i can think of off the top of my head. i'm sure there are others.

i still think expose is a pretty darn good implementation of better windows management. i couldn't care less who invented first, but i sure am glad apple implemented to my satisfaction and making it a very useful function in panther.
Click to expand...

Well said, although I still contend that there's nothing like expose on Windows at least nothing nearly as functional.
 
Originally posted by jxyama
Fast user switching, the way it's impremented, is a copy of XP. not much question about that and i think jobs even talked in some interview alluding to the fact it's a good feature of XP that will be incorporated into panther. (i don't have a source, looked around a bit in google and hence, i could be completely wrong.)
Click to expand...
He said it in the keynote.
Something like, "They beat us to it, so now we are adding it too..."

As to MS copying Piles, this may be a result of the "IP exchange" that was talked about between MS and Apple. Its no longer in use (new ideas aren't shared, willingly), but things that MS added before that time, and things that Apple added before that time were to be crossed licensed....AFAIK
 
this is getting funny. use your theasaurus.
Originally posted by Fukui
Uh, no its not.
Similarity implies that something JUST SO HAPPENED to be...uh similar.

Copying implies a direct intention to make something EXACTLY the same.

If I say that, "Oh, these clouds are similar to the ones in my home town," you can't change that sentence to say, "Oh, these clouds are copied from my home town," it doesn't make any sense boooyyeeee!

They are not synonyms, if that were so, I could interchange those words at any place and the meaning will be the same, here its not. Therefore you are wrong.

And secondly, if apple copied MS, then don't you think they would have put a button on the menu-bar or something that you clicked, and all it did was hide all the windows? Oh, thats not what it does...silly me....🙄

Expose doesn't hide anything, it SHOWS all you windows, again, it doesn't hide your windows like on Windows, it EXPOSES them.

😱
Click to expand...
 
Re: Here are some visuals of Longhorn

Originally posted by hokka
http://www.neowin.net/comments.php?id=14694&category=main

haha, it's leaked already... and they've ripped off the Panther metallic look already!!!
Click to expand...
"metallic look" was not copied. older alpha's of Longhorn were blue instead of dark grey.... themes.... kind of like aqua with blue, or not. or winxp with blue, or silver.

<edit>
Entry: equivalent
Function: adjective
Definition: same
Synonyms: agnate, akin, alike, analogous, carbon, commensurate, comparable, convertible, copy, correlative, correspondent, corresponding, ditto, duplicate, equal, even, homologous, identical, indistinguishable, interchangeable, like, parallel, proportionate, reciprocal, same difference, similar, substitute, synonymous, tantamount
Antonyms: different, differing, dissimilar, diverse, incompatible, unequal, unlike
Concept: equivalence
Source: Roget's Interactive Thesaurus, First Edition (v 1.0.0)
Copyright © 2003 by Lexico Publishing Group, LLC. All rights reserved.
</edit>
 
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