Microsoft Posts 'PC vs. Mac' Section to Windows 7 Website

[Kadman]

How so? Do your macs crash alot? I've never had my mac crash, and never had a computer with W7 crash on me, so to me they are equal in stability (in that regard).

When are your macs crashing?

Yeah, not too happy with stability issues on the MBP but it seems to be fairly common. If you follow the MBP section at MR you'll see I'm far from alone. I reboot my Win 7 laptop quarterly (on average) but need to reboot my MBP weekly to minimize the chances of it locking up. It's pure speculation but I suspect memory management to be a problem in Snow Leopard.

As far as the Mini goes, it's an older box with Tiger on it, and as opposed to completely locking up it tends to suffer from "Spinning beach ball of death" where it becomes so sluggish that a reboot is needed to bring it back to reality.

 

[MacNewsFix]

Ya, and then when they actually try and use OpenOffice they go

Please illuminate me as to the difficulties transitioning to an open source office suite. Considering many major corporations and government entities have gone this route, I have no qualms recommending them to the typical home user with likely much more modest needs.

 

[mac2x]

Yeah, not too happy with stability issues on the MBP but it seems to be fairly common. If you follow the MBP section at MR you'll see I'm far from alone. I reboot my Win 7 laptop quarterly (on average) but need to reboot my MBP weekly to minimize the chances of it locking up. It's pure speculation but I suspect memory management to be a problem in Snow Leopard.

As far as the Mini goes, it's an older box with Tiger on it, and as opposed to completely locking up it tends to suffer from "Spinning beach ball of death" where it becomes so sluggish that a reboot is needed to bring it back to reality.

The good folks in the MBP forum are a small fraction of all the MBP users out there.

Ever tried Onyx on that Mini?

 

[MorphingDragon]

Please illuminate me as to the difficulties transitioning to an open source office suite.

It took me 6 months (working on and off though) to port the VBA macros to OO Basic. It works fine now and the staff are liking it more than Office 2007/2010, but it would be worth noting that we changed our workflow to .PDF to avoid .doc conversion issues.

 

[pondosinatra]

I believe it only works for tapping R twice for the first two letters. A third tap or more has no effect.

It's not really the closest, rather the next one even if it's miles down the alphabet. If your files are named Random, RXviewer and Widget, then tapping R twice will get you RXViewer. If your files are named Random, Remain and Widget, then tapping R twice will get you Widget. Which may make people go "huh, how come I got a file starting with W when I tap RR?", but as you say Wi is the first file it finds after Rr in alphabetical order.

How is that at all a) useful and b) intuitive?

 

[blunderboy]

I think most Mac users are satisfied with their computers. People who have problems are more likely to make complaints in forums, which is why the numbers look skewed. And regarding the i7 MBPs, this was an entirely new model from Apple, and new models from any manufacturer tend to have 'teething pains'. Anyway, it's good to see that people can appreciate both platforms without trying to be divisive ('Crapple', 'Micro$$$$$$oft', 'Windoze', 'Macintrash', etc.)

And an old Mini running 10.4? Have you tried clearing out old files, and (as someone else said) running Onyx on it? Older computers, whether they're Macs or PCs, tend to slow down over time because of all the preference and settings files that they get gumming things up. It's been worse on Windows from what I've seen, but Macs aren't immune to it. And if it's an Intel mini, updating from Tiger to Snow Leopard might speed it up. I saw a significant performance boost updating some Leopard iMacs at work to SL—they start up a lot faster and launch apps quicker.

Regarding Linux, I don't foresee it becoming a major player on the desktop. Microsoft has cornered the non-Apple desktop market with its dumping of cheap Windows licences on the OEMs, and restrictive contracts that prevent the PC box makers from installing their own OSes on the machines. Most PC companies are basically Windows distribution outfits, building computers at the lowest prices as vehicles for Microsoft's product. Price isn't a barrier, because Linux distros are generally free. It's about market saturation—Microsoft's had it sewn up for the past twenty years, and the only way to viably compete with Microsoft is to offer an integrated solution, as Apple (and soon, Google) are doing.

 

[LagunaSol]

Regarding Linux, I don't foresee it becoming a major player on the desktop.

Correct. The "Year of Linux" for any of the current distros = never. Even the most dedicated Linux advocate must recognize this by now, after years of failed hopes and dreams.

The next big assault on the Windows desktop oligarchy will be Google's Chrome OS. Should be interesting to watch as Google battles Microsoft in both the mobile and the desktop arenas for the "thousand flavors of hardware" crowd.

(Not that there's going to be much of a fight in the mobile segment...not even Microsoft is going to be able to provide enough payola to get WinPho 7 any significant traction against Android. Microsoft's domination of the mobile market is but a fading dream for Redmond.)

 

[macintoshtoffy]

Correct. The "Year of Linux" for any of the current distros = never. Even the most dedicated Linux advocate must recognize this by now, after years of failed hopes and dreams.

The next big assault on the Windows desktop oligarchy will be Google's Chrome OS. Should be interesting to watch as Google battles Microsoft in both the mobile and the desktop arenas for the "thousand flavors of hardware" crowd.

(Not that there's going to be much of a fight in the mobile segment...not even Microsoft is going to be able to provide enough payola to get WinPho 7 any significant traction against Android. Microsoft's domination of the mobile market is but a fading dream for Redmond.)

I think that was acknowledged quite a while ago by those sane in the OSS developer community - Novell has pretty much given up with the focus on mobile development, servers and niche case scenarios which require Linux running on the desktop.

Even if Linux were the greatest most stable most reliable most perfect operating system in existence, it would matter a brass wazoo given the dictating factor for the success or failure of a platform is the availability of third party software and easy to use rapid development tools.

 

[MacNewsFix]

It took me 6 months (working on and off though) to port the VBA macros to OO Basic. It works fine now and the staff are liking it more than Office 2007/2010, but it would be worth noting that we changed our workflow to .PDF to avoid .doc conversion issues.

I feel your pain. I've had very similar experiences with both setting up and, eventually, porting VBA macros. A royal pain, but then I guess that's why we get paid the big bucks.

I still hold firm to my belief that for the average user, OpenOffice is a simple way to save some money and should be an easy transition for anyone with any experience using MS Office. However, if someone cannot let go of MS Office, that choice and many other business-class productivity applications on the Mac exist for them.

 

[linux2mac]

I feel your pain. I've had very similar experiences with both setting up and, eventually, porting VBA macros. A royal pain, but then I guess that's why we get paid the big bucks.

I still hold firm to my belief that for the average user, OpenOffice is a simple way to save some money and should be an easy transition for anyone with any experience using MS Office. However, if someone cannot let go of MS Office, that choice and many other business-class productivity applications on the Mac exist for them.

Hmmm...Office Professional 2010 ($499.99) or OpenOffice 3.2.1 ($free)? I think I 'll go with "free" (which does everything the $499 software does).

 

[awmazz]

How is that at all a) useful and b) intuitive?

I tell a lie. Typing Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr will take you directly to the first file named Rrrrrrrrrrrrrrrrr. I was incorrect that it has no effect at all. The no effect is only if there is no file beginning with Rr... so it will still take you to the next file alphabetially regardless of how many R's you type. It's purely alphabetical. No 'magic' keystrokes at all.

How is typing Rr or Rrr or Rrrrrrrrrrrr and expecting *not* to be taken directly to the first file named Rr or Rrr or Rrrrrrrrrrrr, or the next one alphabetically, be considered a) useful and b) intuitive?

You could only possibly know that typing a keystroke 2 times does x-function and typing it 3 times does y-function by learning it (either accidently or by reading the instructions) and remembering it. Needing to learn and remember is not 'intuitive'. Because you learned and remembered to do it on Windows does *not* make it inituitive elsewhere.

Anyway, it's good to see that people can appreciate both platforms without trying to be divisive ('Crapple', 'Micro$$$$$$oft', 'Windoze', 'Macintrash', etc.)

In my opinion, the differences between those names are that the dollar sign and the 'doze' bit are both based on the reality of the wealth of Bill Gates' monopoly and the wait time for restart after the blue screen of death.

The Apple/Mac names are just meaningless rhyming names, which unlike the doze/dows rhyme are not actually based on anything.

 

[wreckshop]

(Not that there's going to be much of a fight in the mobile segment...not even Microsoft is going to be able to provide enough payola to get WinPho 7 any significant traction against Android. Microsoft's domination of the mobile market is but a fading dream for Redmond.)

Well that depends. Apple gave google a small opening and look what happened in less than a year. All it takes is a slip up by google or apple (or both) and MS could be right in the race.

WP7 has got these things going for it IMO:

UI looks fun and interesting
Excellent developer tools and support
xbox live integration
Office integration
platform thats in the middle of totally closed and totally closed.

iphone is secure... android will suffer if WP7 takes off.

 

[Kadman]

The good folks in the MBP forum are a small fraction of all the MBP users out there.

Ever tried Onyx on that Mini?

Agreed that it's a small percentage of the overall population but there's no reason to believe that many others aren't seeing the same things. In fact, I'd be willing to bet the farm that they are. This isn't a case of people rushing to a forum because they've had a problem. It's a matter of some regulars reporting issues while other regulars are not.

Have not looked into Onyx. The fact remains (with my giant sample size of two machines) that the Win XP machine that simply accepts updates (including SP3) seems to be rock solid while the Tiger machine (slightly newer) that simply accepts available updates, isn't nearly as stable. Yeah, it's only one comparison but it's my experience, nonetheless.

 

[iEdd]

platform thats in the middle of totally closed and totally closed.

Between a rock and a hard place?

 

[pondosinatra]

...
How is typing Rr or Rrr or Rrrrrrrrrrrr and expecting *not* to be taken directly to the first file named Rr or Rrr or Rrrrrrrrrrrr, or the next one alphabetically, be considered a) useful and b) intuitive?

If I type R repeatedly I want it to cycle through all document names starting with R. It's as simple as that. Win 7 does it. OS X doesn't. I prefer Win 7 in this instance.

 

[diamond.g]

If I type R repeatedly I want it to cycle through all document names starting with R. It's as simple as that. Win 7 does it. OS X doesn't. I prefer Win 7 in this instance.

Windows 7 will actually do either. If you type the name of a document then it goes to that document.

OS X will only take you to the document matching what you type.


I prefer to use spotlight/start bar search in either case. Keeps my life simple...

 

[PerfSeeker]

I refuse to believe Windows 7 is more stable then OS X. That's just impossible because any *Nix is inherently better then Windows.

 

[linux2mac]

I refuse to believe Windows 7 is more stable then OS X. That's just impossible because any *Nix is inherently better then Windows.

Ditto! I would never host a website on a windows server. Apache has never let me down running on a *Nix box. IIS on the other hand has been terribly disappointing.

 

[JAT]

If I type R repeatedly I want it to cycle through all document names starting with R. It's as simple as that. Win 7 does it. OS X doesn't. I prefer Win 7 in this instance.

Mac has always assumed 2nd key presses refer to the 2nd letter in the filename so you can easily find the precise file, and assumes the arrow keys are adequate for scrolling/selecting 'next' if you just need to skip through a few. Thus, typing RO will jump directly to the first file beginning RO. Some software on Windows also does it this way, but only if you type very quickly. Otherwise, typing slower will do what you like, "R...R...R...R..." will skip through all the files beginning with R.

Mac's version came first, and Microsoft did one of the famous "we're not really copying you because it's slightly different" tricks they do.

Bottom line, the 2 OSes are not identical and you will have to learn whichever you are using. Or both. And it's never consistent anyway, because half the time you are probably using this feature on a web page or in a specific software, and it will work however that is designed, ignoring the OS's behavior.

 

[Jazwire]

PC vs Mac vs My Kids


PC - Constantly deleting Spyware, Malware from it, causing it to crash or be slow. Causing me to spend time cleaning it up, reformatting, reinstalling Windows.

Mac - The Imac the kids use now is 1 year old, I have not done 1 thing to it, it works just as good today as the day I brought it home.

Soon as Windows can stand up to my kids, Ill possibly consider them again.

This is coming from a 18 year PC user and about 6 month Mac user.
(Honestly didnt use the Imac much when we first got it.)

Now I have a MacBook Pro 17" and an IMAC 2.93ghz 27" and a PC that is being parted out on Ebay.

 

[Mike225]

PC vs Mac vs My Kids


PC - Constantly deleting Spyware, Malware from it, causing it to crash or be slow. Causing me to spend time cleaning it up, reformatting, reinstalling Windows.

Mac - The Imac the kids use now is 1 year old, I have not done 1 thing to it, it works just as good today as the day I brought it home.

Soon as Windows can stand up to my kids, Ill possibly consider them again.

This is coming from a 18 year PC user and about 6 month Mac user.
(Honestly didnt use the Imac much when we first got it.)

Now I have a MacBook Pro 17" and an IMAC 2.93ghz 27" and a PC that is being parted out on Ebay.

Create an account for the kids in Windows 7 and you can give them specific rights and lock it down. Removing Administrator rights will solve your issues.

 

[JAT]

Create an account for the kids in Windows 7 and you can give them specific rights and lock it down. Removing Administrator rights will solve your issues.

Out of curiosity, what happens when an installer (trojan or not) is double-clicked when locked down? Does it do nothing? Give them a series of boxes to answer? Ask for admin password?

 

[Burger Thing]

It is the year 2010. And still you have to run an Anti-Virus Software with daily updates and system scanning to be totally confident that your system is secure - especially when somebody else than yourself is using the PC and when one doesn't want to go through the hassle of logging out from an account and log into another one, just to quickly check emails, etc.

But it seems that most are so used to it in the windows world, that they consider it a normal thing already.

What a joke. In that regard windows has been crap. And it still is.

 

[lilo777]

It is the year 2010. And still you have to run an Anti-Virus Software with daily updates and system scanning to be totally confident that your system is secure - especially when somebody else than yourself is using the PC and when one doesn't want to go through the hassle of logging out from an account and log into another one, just to quickly check emails, etc.

But it seems that most are so used to it in the windows world, that they consider it a normal thing already.

What a joke. In that regard windows has been crap. And it still is.

You've got it totally wrong. You do not log in to special account to check e-mail. You do it in your regular account. You use admin account for special tasks (just like with OS X). Running Anti-Virus is optional - on both Windows and OS X. Again, there is absolutely no difference between OS X and Windows in this regard. The selection of Anti-Virus software is better on Windows but this is also true for any kind of software.

 

[GamecockMac]

You've got it totally wrong. You do not log in to special account to check e-mail. You do it in your regular account. You use admin account for special tasks (just like with OS X). Running Anti-Virus is optional - on both Windows and OS X. Again, there is absolutely no difference between OS X and Windows in this regard.

No, as usual YOU have got it totally (and purposefully) wrong. Of course, running antivirus software is optional on either OS X or Windows systems. The key difference is, you'd pretty much be a fool not to run something on a Windows system to protect yourself. On the OS X machine, you'd be wasting your money on such software, not to mention probably slowing down your system for no good reason. But everyone with an ounce of intelligence already knows this.