Microsoft Posts 'PC vs. Mac' Section to Windows 7 Website

[DesmoPilot]

A computer which has a combination of hardware designed to game.

For an extreme example, think;

Core i7-980x

Radeon HD 5970/GTX 480 in Crossfire/SLI

8 GB of RAM

1 TB+ of storage.

And a smoking hole in your pocket.

980x is more for work than play. Any Phenom II x4 or decent LGA1156/1366 CPU is just fine (in most cases, more than fine) for gaming. You can easily build a high end gaming system for under $1000US.

In other words (on the mac side), the new Mac Pro, except with an i7 cpu and without the server features.

Which it doesn't have.

Well without the "server features" of a Mac Pro, all you have is a mid-range graphics card and a hard drive.

 

[Ironworker808]

That doesn't exactly sound like a good sign for the PC industry - as any student of automotive history will tell you, the fins+chrome era of American auto production went on until American cars were massive gas hogs which then got pwned beyond belief by more fuel-efficient imports...

Not exactly. The gas hogs combined with the massive horsepower (the muscle car era) wasn't killed off by fuel efficient cars. Those fuel efficient cars were the result of auto insurance companies charging premiums higher than the monthly car payment, making owning one of those cars unaffordable.

Well, that and the Clean Air Act of 1970, which can probably be considered the biggest 'action' that led to the smaller, fuel efficient 'reaction' that followed.

 

[Eidorian]

A computer which has a combination of hardware designed to game.

For an extreme example, think;

Core i7-980x

Radeon HD 5970/GTX 480 in Crossfire/SLI

8 GB of RAM

1 TB+ of storage.

And a smoking hole in your pocket.

In other words (on the mac side), the new Mac Pro, except with an i7 cpu and without the server features.

Which it doesn't have.

I must not be a gamer then. Shucks.

 

[kernkraft]

My Macbook has a miserable display with only a few degrees of optimum viewing angle. In Forum Spy you can't tell the difference from yellow highlighted posts and white ones. If you adjust the display the top or bottom colors wash out.

I'm holding out for Sandy Bridge notebooks but the urge for a replacement is just since my current notebook is 3 years old and not the need for more power. Though it would be nice not to have to give up on my games while on vacation.

It's very annoying how short 16:9 displays are. 1080p is just so plentiful and cheap.

Honestly, Eidorian, those first generation unibody MacBooks (I had a few with all sorts of problems) hurt people's eyes. I had the 2.4GHz ones but it was a pleasure to switch to the MacBook Air. The Air can be a slow computer with pathetic graphic performance (even Photo Booth could be a struggle), but it was ideal for typing.

In the end, resolution is just one attributes and there are a few more specs to take into consideration. That's why I was happy to stick with that cheap external display at home. It's not fantastic, but it does the job well. I get a lot less stress out of these things than my recent Macs.

I often go to creative studios and almost all of the ones that I know use Dell displays. They are fantastic. You might prefer one of those.

 

[AidenShaw]

Not exactly. The gas hogs combined with the massive horsepower (the muscle car era) wasn't killed off by fuel efficient cars. Those fuel efficient cars were the result of auto insurance companies charging premiums higher than the monthly car payment, making owning one of those cars unaffordable.

I take it that you don't remember the oil embargo of 1973-1974:

As in Western Europe, U.S. automakers were significantly impacted by the 1973 oil embargo and energy crisis. Before the energy crisis, large, heavy, and powerful cars were the standard in the U.S. By 1971, the standard engine in a Chevrolet Caprice was a 400-cubic inch (6.5 liter) V8. The wheelbase of this car was 121.5 inches (3,090 mm), and Motor Trend's 1972 road test of the similar Chevrolet Impala logged no more than 15 miles per gallon on the highway.

After the energy crisis, however, gasoline cost more and reduced the demand for large cars.[33] The Toyota Corona, the Toyota Corolla, the Datsun B210, the Datsun 510, the Honda Civic, the Mitsubishi Galant (a captive import from Chrysler sold as the Dodge Colt), the Subaru DL, and later the Honda Accord all had four cylinder engines that were more fuel efficient in comparison to the typical V8 and six cylinder engines found in North American vehicles.

From Europe, the Volkswagen Beetle, the Volkswagen Fastback, the Renault 8, the Renault LeCar, and the Fiat Brava were also offered. As buyers began exchanging large cars for the smaller imported ones, Detroit responded with the Ford Pinto, the Ford Maverick, the Chevrolet Vega, the Chevrolet Nova, the Plymouth Valliant, and the Plymouth Volaré.

Unless you were a teen-age boy with a 7 litre Mustang, insurance rates weren't a factor.

(And if you were an insurance company, what would you charge a teenager with a 7 litre Mustang?)

Well, that and the Clean Air Act of 1970, which can probably be considered the biggest 'action' that led to the smaller, fuel efficient 'reaction' that followed.

Completely confused here - the CARB (California Air Resources Board) and Clean Air Act don't consider CO2 to be a problem - you can get 1 km/litre and that's fine as long as CO, NOx and and other "pollutants" don't exceed regulated levels.

And, there was no "Clean Air Act of 1970". It was the "Clean Air Act Extension of 1970 (84 Stat. 1676, Public Law 91-604)", an amendment to earlier statutes.

 

[Eidorian]

Honestly, Eidorian, those first generation unibody MacBooks (I had a few with all sorts of problems) hurt people's eyes. I had the 2.4GHz ones but it was a pleasure to switch to the MacBook Air. The Air can be a slow computer with pathetic graphic performance (even Photo Booth could be a struggle), but it was ideal for typing.

In the end, resolution is just one attributes and there are a few more specs to take into consideration. That's why I was happy to stick with that cheap external display at home. It's not fantastic, but it does the job well. I get a lot less stress out of these things than my recent Macs.

I often go to creative studios and almost all of the ones that I know use Dell displays. They are fantastic. You might prefer one of those.

I'm very picky with notebook displays now. It's hard enough to break out of the 768p wastelands. I'm even using the best color profile that I've found for my display.

900p and a midrange graphics card are my baseline. I'll play with viewing angles with in-store models when I can. HP has some amazingly cheap AMD based machines sporting the Mobility HD 5650 as well. HP and AMD make me cringe when it comes to a mobile machine though. Quad core and mobile GPU power but no respect for the display or battery life.

Everything tends to be a 768p ASUS with a 2-year warranty and a GeForce 310M or a 17.3" monster. It's next to impossible to find one that breaks $1,499 though unless it's Blu-ray with a GPU and obscene amounts of DDR3 RAM.

Hopefully Sandy Bridge will introduce some better mobile solutions from ATI (It's tiresome to see 800/400 shader Juniper and Redwood cores) and nVidia needs to get something based off of the GF 104/106 out now.

 

[Ironworker808]

I take it that you don't remember the oil embargo of 1973-1974:

No, I don't as it was taking place on the day I was born. the embargo definitely added to the 'death of the muscle car'. I was giving earlier reasons that started its decline.


Unless you were a teen-age boy with a 7 litre Mustang, insurance rates weren't a factor.
(And if you were an insurance company, what would you charge a teenager with a 7 litre Mustang?)

But that was the demographic that car companies were targeting. Teens and early twenties. I'm not saying they were wrong, just that it helped along the demise of that class of car.


Completely confused here - the CARB (California Air Resources Board) and Clean Air Act don't consider CO2 to be a problem - you can get 1 km/litre and that's fine as long as CO, NOx and and other "pollutants" don't exceed regulated levels.

And, there was no "Clean Air Act of 1970". It was the "Clean Air Act Extension of 1970 (84 Stat. 1676, Public Law 91-604)", an amendment to earlier statutes.

Apologies for getting the amendment wrong. It was that amendment that reduced octane to a max of 91, in part by removing tetraethyl lead as a valve lubricant. And unleaded gas was born!

I'm sorry I didn't go into more intimate detail. Was simply correcting one posters claim/assumption/thinking that America all of a sudden got fuel conscious in the early seventy's and killed off the high horsepower, high compression, gas guzzling muscle car. That's simply not the case.

If I had to guess, the poster I was replying to is not old enough to know what you and I do. Hell, I'm not old enough to remember, but having a passing interest in muscle cars has exposed me to some of the history. However, I am just old enough to remember cursing Joesph Hazelwood for drinking and driving (and thus, driving up gas in Florida by about ten cents a gallon) a mere five weeks before my 16th birthday! LOL.

 

[DMann]

I like OSX better than Windows7 in most areas...

Same here - features are more streamlined, well thought out, and better implemented, overall.

Those didn't come out in Snow Leopard. What you quoted suggested nothing groundbreaking happened in Snow Leopard and that is quite correct.

I never claimed that they did, hence the word "timeless."

Exposé, Spaces, Quicklook, Time Machine, Dashboard, Stacks, CoreGraphics, CoreAudio, Multi-Touch Trackpad/Magic Pad, Voice-Over, etc. are all timeless productivity enhancers.

Hopefully, Grand Central, Open CL, and Quicktime X will take off in tandem with 10.7.

Looking forward.

These features, to date, have kept OS X far ahead in the competition - SL initiates a major step toward fully implementing GCD and Open CL.

New features in SL, such as Exchange, Exposé Dock, Refinements in Exposé, Rewritten Finder, Smart Eject, Auto Text Substitution, and Enhanced Preview, are all noteworthy.

10.7 will more than likely have many more 'ground breaking' new features, 'over the hood.'

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

But if Soccer Mama feels the sudden desire to blow up some Aliens, she can still do so with Bootcamp. (While Joe Average can't shut down his XP-PC and boot into MAC to edit his latest holiday movies on iMovie, etc.).

But using Bootcamp means using Windows and that then nullifies ANY validity to the idea that OSX is somehow "better" than Windows. I suppose you could argue that it's a nice advantage to Mac "hardware" but then I just get annoyed that I cannot run OSX on ANY "PC" (personal computer) of my choice. In other words, I feel the door should swing both ways and preferably without me having to hack to do it.

Offering an optimized gaming rig hasn't probably been on Apple's priority list for some time now (Has it ever?) and therefore Gamers were not the targeted customer group with the ads. Remember I was responding and referring to the Get-a-mac campaign.

My point is that Apple has more than enough wealth to make EVERYTHING they're priority. They are too stingy to hire more people, however. The greed is evident in their China manufacturing operations as well. This supports Communism and that is not good, IMO. Surely, at the very least they could pick a non-Communist country with cheap labor instead of a Communist one. It seems like the Cold War was for nothing. China will eventually win by pure economics, something that should not have EVER happened. Greed and greed alone has lead to this outcome and is also the reason why Apple cannot seem to keep up with Windows in key areas like graphics. Steve doesn't care and doesn't want to spend the money to do it right and that's a shame, IMO because there is no reason OSX couldn't be the best at everything at this point.

 

[pondosinatra]

Weird. I get the same thing. I have about 4 screenshots. I press S, it goes to one of them, then S again, to another file that starts with S. If I press S a third time, it selects a X-edit.dmg. From that point on, pressing S does nothing. (Pressing a different letter at that point will make it change again.)

Have you sent a bug report to Apple?

Well this isn't some weird obscure bug. I can't believe they don't know it's busted. But ya, maybe I will file a bug report.

 

[iEdd]

I suppose you could argue that it's a nice advantage to Mac "hardware" but then I just get annoyed that I cannot run OSX on ANY "PC" (personal computer) of my choice.

Sorry Magnus, but I strongly hope that never happens. Here's what happens if Mac OS gets sold for installation on anything:

• Mac OS either becomes as bloated as Windows, or has a lot of incompatible hardware. It becomes harder and harder to test and optimise the operating system when you are supporting so much hardware. "Those who are passionate about software should make their own hardware."
• The price of the OS on its own will probably treble. (Each instalment is cheap because it works like a "goodwill" upgrade, in that to run it, you already bought a mac and paid for Mac OS.)
• Mac sales would drop. Not so much the MacBooks/MacBook Pros, but their would be a hit overall. We want Apple to get HUGE profits from Mac hardware, so that there's an incentive to keep pumping out the latest and greatest like they do with the iPhone.

I do feel you though, especially with regards to graphics cards on Macs. I completely disagree with anyone who says they are overpriced though.

 

[NT1440]

10.7 will more than likely have many more 'ground breaking' new features, 'over the hood.'

That's the thing I love about apple when they work on their OS. You get features that you wouldn't have even thought of before, but after using them, you could never see yourself enjoying your computing experience without.

Multitouch FTW!

 

[lilo777]

That's the thing I love about apple when they work on their OS. You get features that you wouldn't have even thought of before, but after using them, you could never see yourself enjoying your computing experience without.

Multitouch FTW!

Multitouch, of course, was not invented by Apple. Nor is it the first company to use it on computers. BTW, you do not have to wait for Apple to give you multitouch on desktop/laptop. Plenty PCs have it already.

 

[NT1440]

Multitouch, of course, was not invented by Apple. Nor is it the first company to use it on computers. BTW, you do not have to wait for Apple to give you multitouch on desktop/laptop. Plenty PCs have it already.

I should mention that apple has a tendency of being the first to implement features in an intuitive way and actually useful (not to mention fun) way.

I'm well up to date on general computing history, thank you very much.

 

[lilo777]

I should mention that apple has a tendency of being the first to implement features in an intuitive way and actually useful (not to mention fun) way.

I'm well up to date on general computing history, thank you very much.

OK

 

[MacNewsFix]

Amusing response to Microsoft's new 'PC vs Mac' campaign by the Macalope.

http://www.macworld.com/article/153378/2010/08/macalope_trying.html?lsrc=rss_main

Cheers.

 

[Burger Thing]

But using Bootcamp means using Windows and that then nullifies ANY validity to the idea that OSX is somehow "better" than Windows. I suppose you could argue that it's a nice advantage to Mac "hardware" but then I just get annoyed that I cannot run OSX on ANY "PC" (personal computer) of my choice. In other words, I feel the door should swing both ways and preferably without me having to hack to do it.

Well, I think the Ads were not solely about OSX "being better than Windows" but rather about the MAC "as a whole" experience. At least nowadays people have the option to install a secondary OS on their system. Before, during the pre-Intel era, this was not possible. But the state of gaming has always been a rather miniscule one. Which, IMHO, has less to do with graphic drives, etc, but rather about market share. Software companies didn't see the point to spent time and money on porting (or even natively developing ) games over into the -World.

But who knows, that might change. With the success of the iPods, iPhones, etc, more people are drawn to brand Apple - hence Apple has sold more iMacs and MB(P)s in the recent years than ever. With the gaining market share, OSX will be become more interesting to the software companies to offer the latest FPS, RPGs, etc - and being more and more in the spotlight in general, the pressure on Steve will increase, to develop or implement better graphics or driver solutions IMHO (even if Steve likes it or not ).

About OSX on PCs: don't forget that Microsoft has a very different business approach to Apple. Apart from the XBox and some peripherals, they are not selling Hardware. But it would be definitely some food for discussion. With the gaining popularity of the brand, what would happen if Steve decided one day to let people install OSX or OS11 (?) on every intel machine? Maybe that is the reason why the folks in Redmond have upped their game lately

But then maybe -OS would morph into another (but of course better ) version of Windows... Let's not forget: the tight control over software and hardware made Apple what it is today.

My point is that Apple has more than enough wealth to make EVERYTHING they're priority. They are too stingy to hire more people, however. The greed is evident in their China manufacturing operations as well. This supports Communism and that is not good, IMO. Surely, at the very least they could pick a non-Communist country with cheap labor instead of a Communist one. It seems like the Cold War was for nothing. China will eventually win by pure economics, something that should not have EVER happened. Greed and greed alone has lead to this outcome and is also the reason why Apple cannot seem to keep up with Windows in key areas like graphics. Steve doesn't care and doesn't want to spend the money to do it right and that's a shame, IMO because there is no reason OSX couldn't be the best at everything at this point.

A lot of companies are forced to get their production costs down. That is the downside of our capitalistic system: you have to be competitive or you die - and China welcomed them with open arms. But things are far more complex nowadays. Let's not forget that China played a major role in averting a (long lasting) global financial collapse - if we like it or not. Apart from that, if one takes a walk in Nanjing Road in Shanghai, you would get the impression that China is more capitalist than some countries in Europe... of course if you visit China's rural areas is a totally different story.

But I agree on your comment about Apple's staff numbers. They have to hire more people, and concentrate more on the software side again. No one can argue, that they are short of money to do so. As for me, I would like to see an improved FCP (just like you, a better utilization of cores) and better (more stable) Motion, a more polished Color, etc...

 

[MagnusVonMagnum]

Sorry Magnus, but I strongly hope that never happens. Here's what happens if Mac OS gets sold for installation on anything:

• Mac OS either becomes as bloated as Windows, or has a lot of incompatible hardware. It becomes harder and harder to test and optimise the operating system when you are supporting so much hardware. "Those who are passionate about software should make their own hardware."
• The price of the OS on its own will probably treble. (Each instalment is cheap because it works like a "goodwill" upgrade, in that to run it, you already bought a mac and paid for Mac OS.)
• Mac sales would drop. Not so much the MacBooks/MacBook Pros, but their would be a hit overall. We want Apple to get HUGE profits from Mac hardware, so that there's an incentive to keep pumping out the latest and greatest like they do with the iPhone.

I do feel you though, especially with regards to graphics cards on Macs. I completely disagree with anyone who says they are overpriced though.

All those things are controllable through licensing. In other words, Apple would have complete control of what types of PC hardware are allowed to have OSX and by whom. Thus, if Apple has no interest in making a "Gaming Mac", it could license HP or Alienware or whomever to do it for them, meeting their strict guidelines of what kind of GPU, etc. it uses (and thus no "bloat" as you say. I just find it irritating that Apple refuses to offer a true desktop or gaming hardware rig. The Mac Pro is the only thing that comes close and it's a workstation rig (i.e. bloated in price in the sense that you don't need pricey ECC and Xeon CPUs in a consumer desktop, etc.) They could have done the same thing with a Netbook or a full-featured "tablet" that's a full blown Mac, not just an oversized iPod Touch (there are some retrofits out there but they're insanely expensive because you have to buy a computer from Apple and then pay to have it changed and thus costs nearly as much as two computers).

Yes, there's the Hackintosh thing, but seeing as I have a Netbook like that already, software updates are a bit of extra work and the fastest models don't have CPU support so they don't work.

 

[gavin83209]

Weird. I get the same thing. I have about 4 screenshots. I press S, it goes to one of them, then S again, to another file that starts with S. If I press S a third time, it selects a X-edit.dmg. From that point on, pressing S does nothing. (Pressing a different letter at that point will make it change again.)

Have you sent a bug report to Apple?

Well this isn't some weird obscure bug. I can't believe they don't know it's busted. But ya, maybe I will file a bug report.

To anybody else who is having this problem: it isn't a bug, it's a feature. Let's say I had three files on my desktop. One was named "RandomFile" and one was named "RabidDogs" and the last was named "Ruthless." Those are just three random names that seem to work in this instance. If you press R, it would snap to RabidDogs because it is alphabetically first. If you press tab or shift-tab, the cursor will cycle forwards or backwards alphabetically, respectively. For instance, tab would cycle to RandomFile before Ruthless. However, if you were to keep typing "Ran," it would snap to RandomFile. If you hammered R down, it would snap to Ruthless because it is closest in the alphabet to "rrrrrrrr." U is only a few letters after R. Bear in mind that if you stop typing, there is about a two second timer that will force you to retype from the beginning of the file name. There is a very similar feature in GNOME (i.e. most Linuxes and some BSD variants) that appears in the bottom right of the window as you type.

 

[-hh]

And then somehow infect the system through Photo Viewer?

You would need to get the person to open it as an EXE. How is that easy?

The filename was munged, making the operator believe that its a JPG, so he double-clicks on it (expecting Photo Viewer to run).

The OS, knowing that its an EXE, opens & runs the EXE. Operator is pwned by one of the oldest trojan tricks in the book.

Hard to believe that you're a Windows user and not already know this one...


-hh

 

[subsonix]

Microsoft gives a confusing impression now days. Why do they bother about this, Apple is primarily a hardware platform, one that runs MS products at that, both office and windows. They should be much more worried about linux imho. And as usual they are late, just when Apple killed of the whole mac vs pc campaign.

 

[NT1440]

Microsoft gives a confusing impression now days. Why do they bother about this, Apple is primarily a hardware platform, one that runs MS products at that, both office and windows. They should be much more worried about linux imho. And as usual they are late, just when Apple killed of the whole mac vs pc campaign.

They do this because as small as Apple is in marketshare, Apple are leaps and bounds ahead in something called mindshare, which has allowed them to become the "it" company right now (actually for a good amount of time).

That and the fact that Apple goes after younger people means that this could be the era of Apple.

 

[subsonix]

They do this because as small as Apple is in marketshare, Apple are leaps and bounds ahead in something called mindshare, which has allowed them to become the "it" company right now (actually for a good amount of time).

That and the fact that Apple goes after younger people means that this could be the era of Apple.

Conceptually I get it sure, but they are not in direct competition. As apple just like Lenovo or Sony can run Microsoft products. The day that a major OEM choses to push linux as a default install on their hardware, should worry them much more.

Also apple making the "it" products is not going to change by this, especially since MS don't make any of these products, only an OS.

 

[Redi]

Conceptually I get it sure, but they are not in direct competition. As apple just like Lenovo or Sony can run Microsoft products. The day that a major OEM choses to push linux as a default install on their hardware, should worry them much more.

Also apple making the "it" products is not going to change by this, especially since MS don't make any of these products, only an OS.

I would agree with you, but it's pretty much fact that Linux is way too much of a hassle for anyone who just wants a computer to work straight out of the box. It's wonderful for people who have technology as a hobby, but the conventional consumer would never want to keep going into the command line or application database simply to install a program.

On the subject of the original post, I don't understand why this is a basis to poke fun at Microsoft at all. Companies have used comparison charts and diagrams since the beginning of capitalism - honestly, I fail to see why this would make news in the first place. i think that this was a great step in the right direction for Microsoft; now everyone who is considering buying one of their products has an (albeit somewhat biased) comparison at their fingertips.

 

[Brannyh]

I would agree with you, but it's pretty much fact that Linux is way too much of a hassle for anyone who just wants a computer to work straight out of the box. It's wonderful for people who have technology as a hobby, but the conventional consumer would never want to keep going into the command line or application database simply to install a program.

On the subject of the original post, I don't understand why this is a basis to poke fun at Microsoft at all. Companies have used comparison charts and diagrams since the beginning of capitalism - honestly, I fail to see why this would make news in the first place. i think that this was a great step in the right direction for Microsoft; now everyone who is considering buying one of their products has an (albeit somewhat biased) comparison at their fingertips.

Just to say Ubuntu does come preinstalled on some dell computers.