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Ok, when you go the page that looks at computers (like their featured $999 with stats that are par for Apple), Do these computers come with an OS preinstalled? or is that something to buy then install? Also, aluminum is the only material I need in my computer's body. :cool:

Maybe you will be interested in my Envy 14 with Windows 7 (preinstalled), an aluminum body, backlit keyboard, 350nit screen, multitouch clickpad, 160GB Intel G2 SSD, 6GB RAM, 1GB ATI 5650, Core i5-450M for my purchased price of $1095 because of Bing Cash Back from Microsoft.
 
Maybe you will be interested in my Envy 14 with Windows 7 (preinstalled), an aluminum body, backlit keyboard, 350nit screen, multitouch clickpad, 160GB Intel G2 SSD, 6GB RAM, 1GB ATI 5650, Core i5-450M for my purchased price of $1095 because of Bing Cash Back from Microsoft.

Well its about time that they got a backlit keyboard and multitouch. Also, I got that a couple years ago for less (save for the extra 2GB RAM, as I didn't want that upgrade).
 
Well its about time that they got a backlit keyboard and multitouch. Also, I got that a couple years ago for less (save for the extra 2GB RAM, as I didn't want that upgrade).

Got what? A core i5-450M (Q2, 2010 release) and an Intel G2 160GB Solid State HD ($400 alone and released about a year ago)? We making stuff up now?
 
Got what? A core i5-450M and an Intel G2 160GB Solid State HD ($400 alone)? We making stuff up now?

I'm sorry that you mistook what I said. No, I don't have a core i5-450M (the computer isn't brand new). But yes, I do have a 160GB HD. Also, its flattering that the windows 7 feature of "pinning" an item isn't directly taken from OS X. Or that the "gadgets" are nothing like widgets. Also, the highly acclaimed "snap feature" is something I have too.
 
I'm sorry that you mistook what I said. No, I don't have a core i5-450M (the computer isn't brand new). But yes, I do have a 160GB HD. Also, its flattering that the windows 7 feature of "pinning" an item isn't directly taken from OS X. Or that the "gadgets" are nothing like widgets. Also, the highly acclaimed "snap feature" is something I have too.

Pinning, as in the quicklaunch taskbar from like ?W95? being merged with the standard taskbar? Also the highly acclaimed "Expose feature" is something I have too. And widgets were around before OS X did them. I dont use them anyways. And yes, snap is amazing, and hopefully Apple will incorporate it into OS X sometime.
 
Pinning, as in the quicklaunch taskbar from like ?W95? being merged with the standard taskbar? Also the highly acclaimed "Expose feature" is something I have too. And widgets were around before OS X did them. I dont use them anyways. And yes, snap is amazing, and hopefully Apple will incorporate it into OS X sometime.

Its nice to know that they finally are incorporating things like a taskbar pin and the like. And snap is a feature I like to use often. Windows finally did came up with something before Apple.
 
Pretty much all OEM PCs come with an operating system installed. Most of the time, this is Windows 7 Home Premium. I've rarely ever seen any PC, even a professional-grade one, installed with Professional or Ultimate as a matter of course. I find it annoying that all these computers automatically come with crippled versions of Windows, when with Macs, there's only ONE client version. If I want Windows, I don't want to spend money on an OEM PC and then pay Microsoft about half the price of the computer to 'unlock' the rest of my Windows features.

In Microsoft's defence, they're not charging $500 for Office 2011.

To be frank, the Envy looks like HP looked at Apple's design and copied it. I'm sure it's a pretty sweet machine, but neeeeh, if I needed a separate Windows machine, I'd buy something cheaper.
 
Pretty much all OEM PCs come with an operating system installed. Most of the time, this is Windows 7 Home Premium. I've rarely ever seen any PC, even a professional-grade one, installed with Professional or Ultimate as a matter of course. I find it annoying that all these computers automatically come with crippled versions of Windows, when with Macs, there's only ONE client version. If I want Windows, I don't want to spend money on an OEM PC and then pay Microsoft about half the price of the computer to 'unlock' the rest of my Windows features.

In Microsoft's defence, they're not charging $500 for Office 2011.

To be frank, the Envy looks like HP looked at Apple's design and copied it. I'm sure it's a pretty sweet machine, but neeeeh, if I needed a separate Windows machine, I'd buy something cheaper.

Im glad you are able to see through his ******** $500 comment.

As for the OS, you can usually pay to upgrade it when you build the computer, but I dont see much need for anything over Home Premium to 99% of the home user population. And yes, the business computers usually start with professional in the customization or when purchased pre configured.


As far as I see it, MSFT can either charge everyone more for 1 version or spread the costs over mutiple tiered versions. I prefer the latter. Its not like 3 versions are hard.

Starter (Not a choice to consumers)
Home (Home)
Professional (Office)
Ultimate (Someone who wants Bitlocker)

Oh, and the Envy's design was definitely inspired by the macbook pro ;)
 
Im glad you are able to see through his ******** $500 comment.

As for the OS, you can usually pay to upgrade it when you build the computer, but I dont see much need for anything over Home Premium to 99% of the home user population. And yes, the business computers usually start with professional in the customization or when purchased pre configured.


As far as I see it, MSFT can either charge everyone more for 1 version or spread the costs over mutiple tiered versions. I prefer the latter. Its not like 3 versions are hard.

Starter (Not a choice to consumers)
Home (Home)
Professional (Office)
Ultimate (Someone who wants Bitlocker)

Oh, and the Envy's design was definitely inspired by the macbook pro ;)

Yeah, I saw the '$500' and I was like...no, it doesn't cost $500. I was looking at MS Office prices, because I'm going to buy 2011 with my academic discount, and I'll only be paying $99 for it, definitely not $500. It's only about $200 at full price.

I don't know. Microsoft is overcharging for all those different versions of Windows. I think that there should be 2 versions at most, like XP.
 
From MS web site.

Office Professional 2010
What's included: Word, Excel, PowerPoint, Outlook, OneNote, Access, and Publisher
Suggested retail price: $499.99


http://office.microsoft.com/en-us/buy/buy-office-2010-FX101843016.aspx

You said Office 2011, which is the Mac product. This is the Windows MS Office, which is indeed overpriced. Also, a lot of stores don't sell Microsoft products at full price, because there are lots of rebates bundled with MS products. Most people aren't going to need Office Pro, except for maybe Access. Microsoft Publisher sucks, and definitely isn't a 'professional' product.
 
You said Office 2011, which is the Mac product. This is the Windows MS Office, which is indeed overpriced. Also, a lot of stores don't sell Microsoft products at full price, because there are lots of rebates bundled with MS products. Most people aren't going to need Office Pro, except for maybe Access. Microsoft Publisher sucks, and definitely isn't a 'professional' product.

Sorry for the confusion, I meant MS Office Professional. The point I was trying to make was that in the past when I was on windows, I needed MS Office Professional 2003 ( that was $499 and we had custom Access Apps) and Acrobat 8 Professional ($399) for PDF creation and custom forms.

Now I get by with Open Office 3.2.1 and iWork 09.
 
Sorry for the confusion, I meant MS Office Professional. The point I was trying to make was that in the past when I was on windows, I needed MS Office Professional 2003 ( that was $499 and we had custom Access Apps) and Acrobat 8 Professional ($399) for PDF creation and custom forms.

Now I get by with Open Office 3.2.1 and iWork 09.

So essentially what you are saying is that you no longer have a need for the $900 of programs you "needed" years ago, no matter what the platform. Okay.
How are iWorks equivalents to OneNote, Access, and Publisher?

old-computer-ad-15-megabyte-hard-disk-drive-for-241.jpg
 
So essentially what you are saying is that you no longer have a need for the $900 of programs you "needed" years ago, no matter what the platform. Okay.
How are iWorks equivalents to OneNote, Access, and Publisher?

old-computer-ad-15-megabyte-hard-disk-drive-for-241.jpg


I converted all Access Apps to PHP/My SQL web based applications.

I converted all Adobe forms to PHP/MySQL web based forms that print to PDF with EZPDF.

For Mail client we use Thunderbird or Mail.

Word processing is now done with iWork 09 and Open Office 3.2.1

So my needs are fulfilled sans MS and Adobe now. And "I'm lovin' it!"
 
Maybe you will be interested in...for my purchased price of $1095 because of Bing Cash Back from Microsoft.

Consider yourself fortunate, because Bing Cash Back is dead, so that discount no longer applies for new purchasers, and should be eliminated from what may be represented (or inferred) as typical.


Pretty much all OEM PCs come with an operating system installed. Most of the time, this is Windows 7 Home Premium. I've rarely ever seen any PC, even a professional-grade one, installed with Professional or Ultimate as a matter of course. I find it annoying that all these computers automatically come with crippled versions of Windows, when with Macs, there's only ONE client version. If I want Windows, I don't want to spend money on an OEM PC and then pay Microsoft about half the price of the computer to 'unlock' the rest of my Windows features.

In Microsoft's defence, they're not charging $500 for Office 2011.

Im glad you are able to see through his ******** $500 comment.

As for the OS, you can usually pay to upgrade it when you build the computer, but I dont see much need for anything over Home Premium to 99% of the home user population. And yes, the business computers usually start with professional in the customization or when purchased pre configured.


As far as I see it, MSFT can either charge everyone more for 1 version or spread the costs over mutiple tiered versions. I prefer the latter. Its not like 3 versions are hard.

Starter (Not a choice to consumers)
Home (Home)
Professional (Office)
Ultimate (Someone who wants Bitlocker)

The disconnect with both of these is fairly subtle. I'll work the OS one here first:

The problem that Windows has is that its trying to sell to both the personal home market and the business/professional market, and Microsoft has a dilemma in that they can't demand too high of a price for the home/personal, but they also can't give away business-centric features figuratively for free, since that would severely hurt corporate profits.

The good news...in a way... is that they've finally homogenized to basically a single product that has various stuff disabled. This approach streamlines their cost of software development (versus maintaining two independent sets of code, etc).

However, a problem with this approach is similar to one of GM's problems: one car being sold at different price points by Chevy, Pontiac, Buick, Olds and Caddy, with higher trim levels...and knowledgable customers also know that this is their situation. This results in a balancing act for MS where it is seeking to maximize each segment sales (thus profits) without going too far and hurting itself through inter-segment canabalization, all while it also has its support costs increased because they're being burdened down by having to maintain physcial and logical inventory control over these same permutations of the same basic product.

The basic reason why Apple can be different with OS X is because of a combination of their hardware+software integration which makes profits from OS sales a bit less critical, plus Apple doesn't effectively have the large business segment that creates a "downsale" risk vulnerability. Thus, the consumer version is more free to "go further" feature-wise for these same business centric OS elements.



Yeah, I saw the '$500' and I was like...no, it doesn't cost $500. I was looking at MS Office prices, because I'm going to buy 2011 with my academic discount, and I'll only be paying $99 for it, definitely not $500. It's only about $200 at full price.

The Office suite from Microsoft has the same sort of dilemma: how to get business to pay full freight, while also trying to expand sales into the home/personal market without a 'bag of hurt' price tag.

The general solution has been the Home/Student package for $99 or thereabouts ... which works great for Microsoft's strategy, although it does cause a segment of consumers an issue, when one sets up a small/home business and you realize that technically, your license doesn't permit that use.

Thus, the small businessman is off to Amazon for a legit Office license ... and we find a tiny bit of good news: it isn't $500 afterall, but merely $450 per copy.

As such, the ******** $500 comment wasn't really ******** afterall: its cost depends upon the actual customer and their application (home or business) to determine how much the license is. For a small (probably struggling) home business, the recognition is very prompt: it's nearly the same exact product with two price tags, which can similarly invoke that GM "same car under the badge" frustration on the consumer's assessment of the product's value.

Probably many posters are too young to remember it, but years ago, there was a lawsuit against GM because they IIRC put a Chevy engine in a Cadillac. It may sound silly and trivial, but this was a serious "Branding" problem for them, since the product was marketed as nothing less than a Cadillac.


-hh
 
It's true. We use our mouse with our feet. And the shortcuts are so alien to PC users. Instead of the simple Ctrl+C for copy, we have Cmd+C. It's insanity.

I laughed out loud when I read that mouses work differently on a Mac. I even use a goddamned Microsoft Mouse. Pretty sure it works by dragging it around my desk and clicking the right and left buttons.

Now, if they said the TRACKPAD works differently.....
 
I laughed out loud when I read that mouses work differently on a Mac. I even use a goddamned Microsoft Mouse. Pretty sure it works by dragging it around my desk and clicking the right and left buttons.

Now, if they said the TRACKPAD works differently.....

They could be referring to the loathed mouse acceleration in OS X. Didnt look into it, nor does it really interest me.
 
BTW I just looked at Office 2010 and it indeed comes with Save As PDF. I guess I should stop complaining about the lack of copy paste on my iPhone now :cool:
 
BTW I just looked at Office 2010 and it indeed comes with Save As PDF. I guess I should stop complaining about the lack of copy paste on my iPhone now :cool:

Open Office had Save As PDF back when I was using Acrobat 7 and Office Professional 2003. Unfortunately I had not known of Open Office sooner otherwise I would have saved a ton of money instead of wasting it on "third rate products."
 
Open Office had Save As PDF back when I was using Acrobat 7 and Office Professional 2003. Unfortunately I had not known of Open Office sooner otherwise I would have saved a ton of money instead of wasting it on "third rate products."

Sorry for you ignorance. But as I recall from my use of it, Open Office was pretty crummy back then. Whats funny is that the same people who "like" Open Office are the same ones who bitch about Office's UI.
 
Sorry for you ignorance. But as I recall from my use of it, Open Office was pretty crummy back then. Whats funny is that the same people who "like" Open Office are the same ones who bitch about Office's UI.

Open Office solved my problem of word processing and creating PDF documents without Acrobat or MS Office and was free. I never noticed the "crumminess" in the way it created my docs. I must have not looked close enough.

I really never had an issue with Office's or windows UI, what I hated was all the freezes ups. I had an Access database application (developed by MCSD's) that was shared across a MS windows network. It always froze. One day a friend introduced me to Linux. I ran that same MDB file on Samba on a SLES10 server. It never froze up. That was all the proof I needed that Steve was right in saying that MS makes "third-rate products."
 
You made an assumption about people who like OpenOffice. I gave an example of another mindset some of OpenOffice users share, thus disproving your assumption.

Oh and you think its crummy? People at my work think its bloody brilliant. Fast, stable and a consistent UI. It also lets us open any files from any word processing software that would likely get sent to us.
 
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