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Microsoft Reveals New Band 2, Lumia Phones, Surface Pro 4, and Surface Book

alexgowers said:
YAWN, seriously they ape'd the macbook pro so close then totally ruined it with that awful hinge and hinge gap! The major downside of all this MS tech is windows, which stinks so bad, especially on a phone. They really are gonna feel so much pain on all these products as they fail to sell in any meaningful numbers at any meaningful prices. MS should just sell office and be done with it.
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I disagree. MS still dominates the corporate world and many places want a full MS stack because it makes life simpler. When it comes to hardware, execs want something that will impress and so they have been wanting iPads and MBPs (if at all possible). Where I work, the SP3 became the standard senior management device. At home I use an MBP retina (if I use a laptop at all), but at work I use the SP3. I think the MBP is a better device, because the SP3 is throttled all too often due to heating issues. The keyboard is also a little annoying. This new surface book looks to be great blend of he best of both.

If it is well marketed and catches the eye of the non techs who make investment decisions, thus could do very well. If I weren't all in on Apple, I'd think about them for the home too.
 
I don't often get excited enough about laptops to be interested in them. This one has me excited lol.

Shoot it's lighter than a macbook air, you can draw on the screen, AND IT HAS AN EXTERNAL GPU OPTION!!!!!!! Sounds tempting. :D
 
So if the surface book is twice as fast as Microsoft claims as the Macbook Pro I am pretty sure they are referring to the 13" and are using a quad core CPU instead of Apples dual cores. Only explanation
 
Great event for MS today. I ordered a Surface Pro 4, a Surface Book, and a Band 2. I have an Air 2 and an iPhone 6S Plus on the way as well, so it'll be a fun month. I'll only wind up keeping one of the MS notebooks, but it wasn't clear to me which I would prefer.
 
Currently attending Adobe MAX in LA. Here are my first impressions from a professional creative perspective:

Just got to play with the new MS Surface Book and Surface Pro 4. Here are my initial reactions:

Surface Book Hands On Impressions:
  • Impressive offering from MS. Build quality is OK. Not anywhere near the build quality you get from a Macbook Pro but a really good progression for MS.
  • Screen feels really light when you detach and make it into a tablet
  • But its unwieldy and uncomfortable to hold - still using that weird 3:2 aspect ratio - good luck using this thing in portrait.
  • To detach the screen you have to hold down a button and then hold down the bottom base firmly in the centre bridge to take it off. That was the recommendation from the MS employee (who did not know anything about the device when asked spec questions by an Adobe staff member).
  • When using the stylus in laptop mode the screen wobbles non stop. Not great build quality for sturdiness or weight.
  • When closed there is a big gap between the screen and the keyboard which will allow in lots of dust and other stuff that will creep in from day to day. Nice however to not damage the screen which has been an issue with the MBP since 2012.
Pro 4 Hands on Impressions:
  • Feels (in terms of physical build and user experience) just like a Pro 3 which makes sense as its a new iteration of the same model.
  • However Huge issue on the Pro 4 is that when you shade hard (or put medium-hard pressure in general) using the stylus the screen buckles inwards in the centre. That is terrible build quality.
Stylus Hands on Impressions:
  • You definitely notice the lag. This has NOT been improved since the 2. They brought back the pressure sensivity on the 2 to the 4 which was skipped over on the 3. Thats a plus but the lag is really noticeable so its a deal breaker.
  • Stylus is very comfortable to hold but a little too short for long term use especially for sketching (offers less control and I don't have massive hands). My hand kept hitting the side button by mistake messing with the work flow.
  • The eraser does a weird job of erasing. It erases part of the stroke and then does a negative blur mixture on the rest? So really doesn't erase properly. This was in Photoshop but I saw Adobe have massive issues during their live demo in Illustrator as well. (Could be an Adobe issue?)
  • This stylus does not allow for tilt shading like the Apple pencil. The only thing it does is change the depth and point grade via the pressure output of your hand. You still need to manually switch brush stroke sizes and styles from the menu panel.
  • Nice thing about the stylus is that it did a wonderful job when blending colours using the brush in Photoshop. You were able to create some really nice mixtures and it also created this great pastel look (though may not be great if your not going for a pastel look).
  • Stylus has interchangeable nibs. Still pain in the ass and you will probably lose them. Prefer the idea of tilting the nib to create shades which is more natural to a real pencil.
Closing Thoughts:
  • For me so far its a pass. Will see what the iPad Pro feels like. After looking at the new Apps and App updates Adobe is bringing to market for iOS 9 that were demoed yesterday for an hour at Max on an iPad Pro I'm very excited.
  • Its no longer about needing to use the full desktop pc app for any adobe product vs their app lightweight versions (historically lacking in features) its about Adobe creating options to allow you to use your own work flow. They made it a point to tell us yesterday that they don't want to dictate what your work flow should be like.
  • The new app updates and apps offer a lot of value and new features especially when linked to the creative cloud. Its about using both the apps and the full desktop apps in unison.
  • A lot of these apps will allow you to do things faster then on the traditional pc application because they were designed specifically for these tasks.
  • Also worth noting - I just finished attending the Adobe 'Sneaks' keynote where they demo tech and apps that may or may not make it to market next year via their roadmap. All of the Adobe partners were creating amazing apps for creative work specifically for iOS. All of their demos were on the iPad Pro and the full adobe desktop suite on the Mac Pro. None used the Surface Pro 4 or the Surface Book and they made no mention of developing their apps for Windows.
  • Some of these apps were incredible and the creative community (7000 attending) went nuts. This shows me that there is massive developer support within the creative community for working within the partnership between Adobe and Apple which only helps in affirming the probability that the future of Adobe products on future iOS iterations will continue to grow stronger.
Exciting times and hope this helps.

Edit: Wanted to mention I'm not a troll new poster etc. I had an account and completely forgot the credentials so I decided to start a new account via FB login. Long time lurker since 2007 and occasional poster :)

Edit 2: Corrected mistake stating it was 16:10 aspect ratio to the now corrected 3:2. Spec number mistake but the original point about the awkward aspect ratio still holds true. I just got the number wrong (God cast me down for I have sinned blah blah blah :p)
 
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Pockets157 said:
Currently attending Adobe MAX in LA. Here are my first impressions from a professional creative perspective:

Just got to play with the new MS Surface Book and Surface Pro 4. Here are my initial reactions:

Surface Book Hands On Impressions:
  • Impressive offering from MS. Build quality is OK. Not anywhere near the build quality you get from a Macbook Pro but a really good progression for MS.
  • Screen feels really light when you detach and make it into a tablet
  • But its unwieldy and uncomfortable to hold - still using that weird 16:10 aspect ratio - good luck using this thing in portrait.
  • To detach the screen you have to hold down a button and then hold down the bottom base firmly in the centre bridge to take it off. That was the recommendation from the MS employee (who did not know anything about the device when asked spec questions by an Adobe staff member).
  • When using the stylus in laptop mode the screen wobbles non stop. Not great build quality for sturdiness or weight.
  • When closed there is a big gap between the screen and the keyboard which will allow in lots of dust and other stuff that will creep in from day to day. Nice however to not damage the screen which has been an issue with the MBP since 2012.
Pro 4 Hands on Impressions:
  • Feels (in terms of physical build and user experience) just like a Pro 3 which makes sense as its a new iteration of the same model.
  • However Huge issue on the Pro 4 is that when you shade hard (or put medium-hard pressure in general) using the stylus the screen buckles inwards in the centre. That is terrible build quality.
Stylus Hands on Impressions:
  • You definitely notice the lag. This has NOT been improved since the 2. They brought back the pressure sensivity on the 2 to the 4 which was skipped over on the 3. Thats a plus but the lag is really noticeable so its a deal breaker.
  • Stylus is very comfortable to hold but a little too short for long term use especially for sketching (offers less control and I don't have massive hands). My hand kept hitting the side button by mistake messing with the work flow.
  • The eraser does a weird job of erasing. It erases part of the stroke and then does a negative blur mixture on the rest? So really doesn't erase properly. This was in Photoshop but I saw Adobe have massive issues during their live demo in Illustrator as well. (Could be an Adobe issue?)
  • This stylus does not allow for tilt shading like the Apple pencil. The only thing it does is change the depth and point grade via the pressure output of your hand. You still need to manually switch brush stroke sizes and styles from the menu panel.
  • Nice thing about the stylus is that it did a wonderful job when blending colours using the brush in Photoshop. You were able to create some really nice mixtures and it also created this great pastel look (though may not be great if your not going for a pastel look).
  • Stylus has interchangeable nibs. Still pain in the ass and you will probably lose them. Prefer the idea of tilting the nib to create shades which is more natural to a real pencil.
Closing Thoughts:
  • For me so far its a pass. Will see what the iPad Pro feels like. After looking at the new Apps and App updates Adobe is bringing to market for iOS 9 that were demoed yesterday for an hour at Max on an iPad Pro I'm very excited.
  • Its no longer about needing to use the full desktop pc app for any adobe product vs their app lightweight versions (historically lacking in features) its about Adobe creating options to allow you to use your own work flow. They made it a point to tell us yesterday that they don't want to dictate what your work flow should be like.
  • The new app updates and apps offer a lot of value and new features especially when linked to the creative cloud. Its about using both the apps and the full desktop apps in unison.
  • A lot of these apps will allow you to do things faster then on the traditional pc application because they were designed specifically for these tasks.
  • Also worth noting - I just finished attending the Adobe 'Sneaks' keynote where they demo tech and apps that may or may not make it to market next year via their roadmap. All of the Adobe partners were creating amazing apps for creative work specifically for iOS. All of their demos were on the iPad Pro and the full adobe desktop suite on the Mac Pro. None used the Surface Pro 4 or the Surface Book and they made no mention of developing their apps for Windows.
  • Some of these apps were incredible and the creative community (7000 attending) went nuts. This shows me that there is massive developer support within the creative community for working within the partnership between Adobe and Apple which only helps in affirming the probability that the future of Adobe products on future iOS iterations will continue to grow stronger.
Exciting times and hope this helps.

Edit: Wanted to mention I'm not a troll new poster etc. I had an account and completely forgot the credentials so I decided to start a new account via FB login. Long time lurker since 2007 and occasional poster :)
Click to expand...


Thanks very much for the hands-on review! Pretty much what I expected for a Microsoft product.
 
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I think we need to address the elephant in the room that is charging the stylus of the iPad pro and the surface. If someone could provide a photo of each that would be great as I'm on my phone.

The iPad pro pencil sticks lengthways in the port and becomes a weapon.

The Surface pen attaches sideways onto the port and looks more logical. And has done since the first.

How did Apple not think to put a magnetic connector on the side, or a joint or anything?
 
FoxMcCloud said:
I think we need to address the elephant in the room that is charging the stylus of the iOS pro and the surface. If someone could provide a photo of each that would be great as I'm on my phone.

The iPas pro pencil sticks lengthways in the port and becomes a weapon.

The Surface pen attaches sideways onto the port and looks more logical. And has done since the first.

How did Apple not think to put a magnetic connector on the side, or a joint or anything?
Click to expand...
The Apple Pencil is not supposed to be plugged into the lightning port for storage. It is for quick charging only.
 
Couple of additional clarifications:

When i mention detaching the screen on the surface book and the issue with the sturdyness just so its clear when trying to detach it made the base incredibly wobbly and unstable thus having to push very hard on the odd looking hinge in the centre. Also when i said that you need to push a button to make it detach i want to clarify that its actually a key on the keyboard.

Regarding the newest post about the surface stylus attaching to the side of the pro and book, it does so but when i attempted to put it back on a few times it kept falling off and when i did manage to re-attach it, it attached itself at a weird angle with the majority of the stylus jabbing out at an odd angle and not remaining firmly attached.
 
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Renzatic said:
I'm thinking he's feeding you a big bowl of FUD. The fact he's talking about pen lag and buckling screens is proof enough of that.
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Actually I'm just giving an honest review of the 15 minutes i had to play and test with both products but whatever floats your boat. If you don't like my hands on impressions you don't have to. I suppose watching videos works too.
 
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Pockets157 said:
Actually I'm just giving an honest review of the 15 minutes i had to play and test with both products but whatever floats your boat. If you don't like my hands on impressions you don't have to. I suppose watching videos works too.
Click to expand...
I saw the lag during the keynote when the presenter said it's instant.
 
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haruhiko said:
I saw the lag during the keynote when the presenter said it's instant.
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I haven't watched the MS keynote but I absolutely noticed it again after I tested it when MS and Adobe did a demo during the 'Sneaks' Keynote. It was actually worse during the keynote then when I used it but that could have been because they did a longer demo that I did and I was looking for it by that point. Still noticeably bad lag and a huge issue for me personally.
 
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Pockets157 said:
Actually I'm just giving an honest review of the 15 minutes i had to play and test with both products but whatever floats your boat. If you don't like my hands on impressions you don't have to. I suppose watching videos works too.
Click to expand...

Call me suspicious, but the only time I ever hear about this supposed severe pen lag all the Surfaces suffer from are usually up here in news and rumors. On any artist or 3D design boards, there's nary a peep.

While the N-Trig pen doesn't track perfectly to the tip of the pen when you're hovering it over the screen, as soon as you make contact with the glass, it sticks right to the point of the stylus.

I say this while using it on my low end S3. There is no lag.
 
Renzatic said:
Call me suspicious, but the only time I ever hear about this supposed severe pen lag all the Surfaces suffer from are usually up here in news and rumors. On any artist or 3D design boards, there's nary a peep.

While the N-Trig pen doesn't track perfectly to the tip of the pen when you're hovering it over the screen, as soon as you make contact with the glass, it sticks right to the point of the stylus.

I say this while using it on my low end S3. There is no lag.
Click to expand...

Well I'm just telling you what I, and the Adobe keynote showed - you certainly do not have the line stick to the point of the stylus once it makes contact with the glass. Its just not the case at least with the book or pro 4 demo models they had at MAX. Don't really mind if you don't believe me as you will be able to test it yourself in stores soon I'm sure. :)

Also just a note - my animator and artist friends all avoided the S3 because of the stylus lag. Hence another reason I never invested into one. Then again none of them ever comment on boards about products. If they want to find something out or gather professional opinions they talk to the community they know and trust at their offices, and through friends and colleagues they know in real life. Not saying that people who post on those forums don't have valid comments, not at all. Just providing some insight on my small drop in the creative community.
 
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Pockets157 said:
Well I'm just telling you what I, and the Adobe keynote showed - you certainly do not have the line stick to the point of the stylus once it makes contact with the glass. Its just not the case at least with the book or pro 4 demo models they had at MAX. Don't really mind if you don't believe me as you will be able to test it yourself in stores soon I'm sure. :)
Click to expand...

Did they somehow drop the ball and make the SP4 considerably worse than the previous Surfaces?
 
Renzatic said:
Did they somehow drop the ball and make the SP4 considerably worse than the previous Surfaces?
Click to expand...
lol no as I mentioned in my OP, stylus feels just as laggy as before. However you may want to just acknowledge that my review was not just a giant bash post. I did mentioned quite a few positives about both products. If the stylus works for you and you don't notice/feel the lag when/if you design then high-five bud! :) Unfortunately not the same for me or my circle. To each his/her own.
 
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Sorry but he has a point, A REAL POINT because even in presentation if you pay attention that eraser is like he describe it. it erases parts and not a single pixel.
The Microsoft book also made a point, 3h of battery on tablet mode but if you go on fully laptop mode and you use that gpu intense i bet you will not last for more than 5-6 hours.
So, at least Apple uses battery life specs when you use it browsing the web on wi-fi. When they say it's almost no lag they still use the word "almost" and not "there is no lag" propositions when clearly it has.
So i tend to believe Pockets157
 
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Pockets157 said:
lol no as I mentioned in my OP, stylus feels just as laggy as before. However you may want to just acknowledge that my review was not just a giant bash post. I did mentioned quite a few positives about both products. If the stylus works for you and you don't notice/feel the lag when/if you design then high-five bud! :) Unfortunately not the same for me or my circle. To each his/her own.
Click to expand...

Sorry, man. I gotta call shenanigans. Also, neither the Book nor the SP use a 16:10 aspect ratio.
 
pickaxe said:
The screen's ratio is 3:2, not 16:10.
Click to expand...
Apologies for the mistake in my OP. Corrected now. However it doesn't change the point I was trying to make. It still has the horrendous aspect ratio when trying to manhandle the thing and god forbid you use it in portrait...
 
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Renzatic said:
Sorry, man. I gotta call shenanigans. Also, neither the Book nor the SP use a 16:10 aspect ratio.
Click to expand...
Sigh see this: Apologies for the mistake in my OP. Corrected now. However it doesn't change the point I was trying to make. It still has the horrendous aspect ratio when trying to manhandle the thing and god forbid you use it in portrait...

Anyway I'm not here to convince you. I thought my impressions since I actually got to hold and test these products today would be beneficial to the discussion since all comments before mine were guesses and conversations about the rehearsed keynote and directed video produced by MS.
 
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