Microsoft, Samsung Take on Apple With New Smartphone Announcements

[Rodimus Prime]

But you made exactly the opposite point. You pointed to a long line of massive improvements and great new features that have been added in previous major updates. You listed a ton of reasons that iPhone 3.2 is very very different than iPhone 1.0.

Why should we expect that iPhone 4.0 will not continue this history of major changes?

No you are missing the point
what I pointed out was those "new features" Apple add are not really that impressive when you break them now.

MMS -- A no excuse that it took apple 2 years to add a basic items Catch up item 2 years late

Copy/paste - No excuse that apple did not have it day one catch up item1 year late.

Video recording - No excuse not there day one catch up item and 2 years late

Voice controls -- Not impressive and others already had it. Nice touch but not impressive.

notice a pattern there. 3 of apple "Big updates" are catch up items. Items that should of been on the phone on day one apple added and then claimed big update. What makes you all think that 4.0 will be any different than adding some basic update.

If apple add multitasking that is a Catch up item plain and simple and will be 2 years late.

 

[LagunaSol]

It to stop counting on 4.0 to be some end all thing but release it will be catch up items or not impressive at all items.

Grammar cleanup on aisle 3 please. Bring help.

I am getting tired of people saying iPhone 4.0 OS will be so GREAT and Grand (or even 4th gen iPhone for that matter) it will just be more catch up or minor updates.

I am getting tired of people saying iPhone 4.0 OS will just be "minor updates" when clearly they have no idea what iPhone 4.0 OS will be.

 

[ChazUK]

What is rarely mentioned is while some features (say Copy/Paste) have come later than expected, their implementation is superior to the competition. Apple's Copy/Paste is better than the same function on WebOS or Android.

So...do you want it now or do you want it good?

(That said, the foot-dragging by Apple on a lot of these items can be discouraging. Yes, we want it good, but we want it good faster.)

Can't disagree with that. The day it was announced I was curious how copy and paste would work on a capacitive touch screen. The lack of accuracy compared with a resistive screen and stylus was my biggest concern, then they released it...

The little grab points and magnifying text box was completely unexpected and worked so well. Using the scrollball works on my Nexus One but it is far more fiddly than Apple's seamless screen only implimentation.

Little things like that make the iPhone shine.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I am getting tired of people saying iPhone 4.0 OS will just be "minor updates" when clearly they have no idea what iPhone 4.0 OS will be.

Well the pattern from the previous 2 Updates is there. It is things that are a few years late that are finally getting added in.

I think the pattern sides clearly on it going to be more minor than some GRAND and GREAT thing. People here keep screaming you can not compare anything until OS 4.0 but tell you the truth you can when you look at the pattern already in places from 1.0 to 3.2.

 

[charliehustle]

They didn't say that.



Whether or not you would have preferred those features earlier, they were still major feature updates. All you've proven is that when Apple issues a major iPhone update, it can add a lot of new features and make large changes.

so are you saying if you bought a really nice car with only 3 wheels, and the company gave you the third tire a few years later, you would consider that a "Major feature update"?

 

[brendon2020]

wow, doesn't look half bad; I'm not gonna buy one but not a bad ui, coming from microsoft.

 

[Analog Kid]

so are you saying if you bought a really nice car with only 3 wheels, and the company gave you the third tire a few years later, you would consider that a "Major feature update"?

Why'd you buy a car with 3 wheels?

 

[JGowan]

November/December. There's a high possibility this will be outdated by the time it comes out.

Absolutely!

As Macrumors.com bullet-pointed from WIRED's article (Underlines and reordering=me)

- Next iPhone coming is an A+ update
- Apple will deliver aggressive updates to iPhone that Android/Google won't be able to keep up with
- iPad is up there with the iPhone and Mac as the most important products Jobs has been a part of
- Regarding the Lala acquisition, Apple was interested in bringing those people into the iTunes team
- New Macs for 2010 are going to take Apple to the next level
- Blu-Ray software is a mess, and Apple will wait until sales really start to take off before implementing it.

I'm happy for all of the healthy competition. For all of the copy-cats, there are a few that might just keep Apple on its toes. Apple never needs others to spur them on to do more, but this helps them stay even more aggressive, all the better for us.

I believe that iPhone 4.0 is going to knock our socks off, honestly. I don't believe Steve would've said it unless he knew that Apple would deliver. Looking forward to June!

 

[cmaier]

so are you saying if you bought a really nice car with only 3 wheels, and the company gave you the third tire a few years later, you would consider that a "Major feature update"?

If there's a major difference between 3 and 4 wheels, then yes.

The point is this - each major version number has had major differences from the prior. One would therefore expect that 4.0 will contain many differences from 3.2.

Further, I don't accept the premise that crap like MMS should have been there from the start - I still have not met anyone AFK who has ever used MMS.

 

[cmaier]

No you are missing the point
what I pointed out was those "new features" Apple add are not really that impressive when you break them now.

MMS -- A no excuse that it took apple 2 years to add a basic items Catch up item 2 years late

Copy/paste - No excuse that apple did not have it day one catch up item1 year late.

Video recording - No excuse not there day one catch up item and 2 years late

Voice controls -- Not impressive and others already had it. Nice touch but not impressive.

notice a pattern there. 3 of apple "Big updates" are catch up items. Items that should of been on the phone on day one apple added and then claimed big update. What makes you all think that 4.0 will be any different than adding some basic update.

If apple add multitasking that is a Catch up item plain and simple and will be 2 years late.

I don't misunderstand your point. Even if I accept your argument that these ar "catch up" items (I don't accept that, by the way), I repeat: so what?

Each update has been chock full of big features that weren't there before. App store, multiple home screens, MMS, GPS, compass, ability to add things to the home screen, copy/paste, video recording, etc. Put a 1.0 iPhone next to a 3.2 iPhone and the differences are astounding.

Therefore one should expect 4.0 will have lots of stuff in it that currently is not there. And just as 3.2 is very impressive compared to 2.0, 4.0 will be very impressive compared to 3.0.

 

[jo0]

lets see what bing thinks about this....

http://www.whatbingknows.com/index.php?viewid=44

 

[Cathode]

What is rarely mentioned is while some features (say Copy/Paste) have come later than expected, their implementation is superior to the competition. Apple's Copy/Paste is better than the same function on WebOS or Android.

So...do you want it now or do you want it good?

(That said, the foot-dragging by Apple on a lot of these items can be discouraging. Yes, we want it good, but we want it good faster.)

I can agree with this statement only when using copy/paste as an example. How exactly did Apple make MMS 'better' than it's competitors? What about Voice Control? Many of the features Apple added are identical to what is already available. Regardless, the most important fact is that the features have been added. There isn't any sense in beating a dead horse despite how long it took - it's on the device now.

I'm positive that the Windows Mobile 7 OS we saw will under-go more finalizing before it's released later this year. It's entirely possible that they could change certain (even major) elements before it ships. Like Apple (and Android), the new software is updatable so changes could come after it's released as well.

Further, no one can know other than select employees what Apple has in store with the iPhone 4.0 update. It could certainly bring game changing new features that leave other phones in the dust. Who really knows?

Like always, there will be devices that some people love and some people hate. The truth is, you cannot please everyone. This is why it's great to have multiple companies who offer different devices for different people. If you do not like said device, use something you do like and leave it at that.

 

[yorkshire]

Looks pretty nice, definitely good to see something new that isn't a clone of iPhone OS. Hopefully Apple can counter this with something great.

 

[Cathode]

I don't misunderstand your point. Even if I accept your argument that these ar "catch up" items (I don't accept that, by the way), I repeat: so what?

I'm very confused because there were sub-$100 non-smart phones with MMS, Video Recording, Voice Commands, etc. for years before the iPhone added it. You're just being silly. That wasn't a personal attack against you, you don't have to be so defensive. You don't have to 'accept' anything. That doesn't make it any different or right.

Further, I don't accept the premise that crap like MMS should have been there from the start - I still have not met anyone AFK who has ever used MMS.

Just because you or your circle of family/friends do not use MMS does not mean it isn't used by anyone else. It's a feature that was standard on cell phones long before the iPhone's existence. It really should have been available at release.

 

[VonBrick]

Will iPhone 4 be THAT good?

I believe that iPhone 4.0 is going to knock our socks off, honestly. I don't believe Steve would've said it unless he knew that Apple would deliver. Looking forward to June!

Let's not forget, though, that Steve said the iPad will be "the most important thing I've ever done". That, honestly, didn't pan out the way I and apparently many others would've liked.

I've never forgotten that Steve is a GREAT salesman. And they've been known to exaggerate from time to time...

 

[MMX]

I'm very confused because there were sub-$100 non-smart phones with MMS, Video Recording, Voice Commands, etc. for years before the iPhone added it. You're just being silly. That wasn't a personal attack against you, you don't have to be so defensive. You don't have to 'accept' anything. That doesn't make it any different or right.



Just because you or your circle of family/friends do not use MMS does not mean it isn't used by anyone else. It's a feature that was standard on cell phones long before the iPhone's existence. It really should have been available at release.

It wasn't. Big deal. I guess you didn't buy because of it, but if you did you are hypocrite.

 

[cmaier]

I'm very confused because there were sub-$100 non-smart phones with MMS, Video Recording, Voice Commands, etc. for years before the iPhone added it. You're just being silly. That wasn't a personal attack against you, you don't have to be so defensive. You don't have to 'accept' anything. That doesn't make it any different or right.



Just because you or your circle of family/friends do not use MMS does not mean it isn't used by anyone else. It's a feature that was standard on cell phones long before the iPhone's existence. It really should have been available at release.

When I say I "don't accept" an argument, it means I will base my argument on the premise being true, but that I reserve my right to argue that the premise is false at a later time. It doesn't mean I'm being defensive. This is how people make reasoned arguments.

The reason I don't accept your premise is that I think Apple did it "on time." They did it when the market demanded it - this is evidenced by the fact that they sold these things like hotcakes before adding these supposed must-have features. Apple had no trouble selling all the iPhones it could make, even without MMS. Thus there was no reason to have MMS in the first iPhones - it didn't impact sales one iota. There is no point having features on the phone that aren't being demanded by anybody - to do so only detracts from time they can spend polishing other features that actually matter to people.

The market has been quite clear - Apple has gotten the feature set just about perfectly correct as a function of time.

 

[cmaier]

Let's not forget, though, that Steve said the iPad will be "the most important thing I've ever done". That, honestly, didn't pan out the way I and apparently many others would've liked.

It's the most important thing he's ever done (if he said it, by the way). Not the most important thing you ever did. Why don't you wait 18 months after the thing actually goes on sale and see what kind of impact it has on the computing and ereader markets before claiming that Steve's supposed statement isn't true.

 

[LagunaSol]

It's the most important thing he's ever done (if he said it, by the way). Not the most important thing you ever did. Why don't you wait 18 months after the thing actually goes on sale and see what kind of impact it has on the computing and ereader markets before claiming that Steve's supposed statement isn't true.

*Applause*

The doomsaying for the iPad has reached ludicrous levels. Everyone thought the iPod was a dud out of the gate, yet the little device singlehandedly took Apple to the forefront of consumer electronics.

If Steve thinks the iPad is the most important thing he's ever done, he obviously has something in mind that few here are able to intuit.

 

[Cathode]

The market has been quite clear - Apple has gotten the feature set just about perfectly correct as a function of time.

By 'market demanding it' you must mean losing it's competitive edge. It's true the iPhone certainly didn't need MMS to sell units the first few years. However, Apple could have taken the extra step and added on release anyway. It wasn't a risky venture, they definitely wouldn't have lost any capital from including it. Can you imagine if Android didn't have MMS when it came out a few years ago? There would have been all sorts of complaints.

I can't say it's entirely Apple's fault. AT&T wasn't able to deliver MMS right away even after Apple announced it.

Companies sometimes get comfortable, dare I say, lazy. If you have a wonderful product that is selling well, that doesn't mean you should sit back and only add features when your competitors catch up or sales start to decline.

 

[cmaier]

By 'market demanding it' you must mean losing it's competitive edge. It's true the iPhone certainly didn't need MMS to sell units the first few years. However, Apple could have taken the extra step and added on release anyway. It wasn't a risky venture, they definitely wouldn't have lost any capital from including it. Can you imagine if Android didn't have MMS when it came out a few years ago? There would have been all sorts of complaints.

I can't say it's entirely Apple's fault. AT&T wasn't able to deliver MMS right away even after Apple announced it.

Companies sometimes get comfortable, dare I say, lazy. If you have a wonderful product that is selling well, that doesn't mean you should sit back and only add features when your competitors catch up or sales start to decline.

Ok. Even if all that is true (again, I don't concede that), what does any of this have to do with the original premise - that Apple's history of updating iPhone shows that the iPhone 4.0 update will somehow be disappointing?

 

[LagunaSol]

I can't say it's entirely Apple's fault. AT&T wasn't able to deliver MMS right away even after Apple announced it.

How many of these "iPhone shortcomings" are really AT&T shortcomings? MMS, tethering, no streaming over 3G, no VOIP - clearly AT&T's doing, not Apple's.

Just now you're starting to see some of the competition offer some of these things. Why? Competitive threat by Apple. Does anyone really think Verizon would have just announced Skype calling on the mobile devices if it weren't for the iPhone?

Then you have the big "Flash" uproar - where the iPhone is just hopelessly gimped on the Web. Yet oddly enough, 2+ years after the iPhone's debut, Apple's competitors still don't have full Flash on their mobile devices either. (Though I think Android may be there this week.) Odd that you can't view the Droid website on Verizon on an actual Droid itself, hmm?

Want to tether your Nexus One? Sorry. Droid, nope not yet - and when it arrives it will cost a fortune.

Where's the outrage? Nowhere, not in the double-standards world of the rabid Apple hater. All they can talk about is all these magical features that every other phone on the planet has had for years but the iPhone hasn't.

Companies sometimes get comfortable, dare I say, lazy. If you have a wonderful product that is selling well, that doesn't mean you should sit back and only add features when your competitors catch up or sales start to decline.

If that were the case with Apple, we wouldn't have the iPod touch, as the regular scrollwheel iPod was still selling by the bajillions. And Apple wouldn't have killed the iPod Mini while it was still going like gangbusters.

Apple thankfully doesn't typically follow the Microsoft model of only improving a product when feeling threatened by a competitor.

 

[bajee]

I see alot of mixed reactions here, some say UI is horrible, some say, its fantastic..

for those who ways its horrible, please have a look at this video first

http://channel9.msdn.com/posts/LauraFoy/First-Look-Windows-Phone-7-Series-Hands-on-Demo/

The picture doesn't justify the sleekness of the new UI "Metro". I must say, its one of the most original I've seen in a smartphone UI.

 

[LagunaSol]

I see alot of mixed reactions here, some say UI is horrible, some say, its fantastic..

for those who ways its horrible, please have a look at this video first

I say it's horrible, and I did look at that video first.

The picture doesn't justify the sleekness of the new UI "Metro". I must say, its one of the most original I've seen in a smartphone UI.

If "original" is measured by the number of superfluous animations and odd text treatments at the sake of daily usability, yes, Windows Phone 7 Series appears to win by a mile.

 

[Rodimus Prime]

I think what can be said about the iPhone vs Others is the iPhone is week by week losing it competitive advantage.

Right now apple biggest advantage is the App store itself and that is starting to loss it advatage as the other phones app stores start getting off the ground. Yes the Apple App store will more than likely hold the most apps but the problem you run into are the big apps everyone likes (killer apps) are starting to appear on other phones so that gap is being slowly reduced.

Now take away the app store from the picture and just compare the OS's and iPhones advantages there are even smaller and even getting creamed in some departments (Notifications for example).

From people I have talk to who have the iPhone they have said time and time again it is the app store that really makes the iPhone and with out that there are better smart phones out there.