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Microsoft, Samsung Take on Apple With New Smartphone Announcements

Rodimus Prime said:
I think what can be said about the iPhone vs Others is the iPhone is week by week losing it competitive advantage.
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Examples? Additionally, if you're including the yet to be released Windows Phone 7 Series OS then you're being completely irrational. Thats like saying Duke Nukem Forever is the best game ever (hopefully they'll finally release the OS and stop delaying it).

Rodimus Prime said:
Right now apple biggest advantage is the App store itself and that is starting to loss it advatage as the other phones app stores start getting off the ground. Yes the Apple App store will more than likely hold the most apps but the problem you run into are the big apps everyone likes (killer apps) are starting to appear on other phones so that gap is being slowly reduced.
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Quality of experience is an issue here. Some apps work well across platforms. Others don't. Additionally, I wouldn't be so dismissive when you're speaking in generalities.

Rodimus Prime said:
Now take away the app store from the picture and just compare the OS's and iPhones advantages there are even smaller and even getting creamed in some departments (Notifications for example).
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Thank you for including an example by name only. Can you now explain this example? How are they being creamed? Many potential examples the most generous you could be would say they break even with the iPhone's implementation. Catching up with Apple is not a winning strategy though. (How many times did people catch up to the iPod only for Apple to release something better before the catch-up product even reaches market?)

Rodimus Prime said:
From people I have talk to who have the iPhone they have said time and time again it is the app store that really makes the iPhone and with out that there are better smart phones out there.
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Yeah, and if it didn't have a microphone there would be better phones out there too. Your point? Stop speaking in vague generalities if you want a real conversation.
 
Rodimus Prime said:
I think what can be said about the iPhone vs Others is the iPhone is week by week losing it competitive advantage.
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Of course it is. That's a tautology. Every new product loses its competitive advantage over time, until it is refreshed. If I was running a race, and I got out to an early lead, and then I stood there for 9-12 months, you can bet my competitor would begin to catch up.

The problem for Apple's competitors is that so far they've shown that they don't listen to Wayne Gretzky - they are skating to where the puck was, not where it's going to be.

If Apple flubs the next iPhone/4.0, then the competitors will move into the lead. If not, then the competitors will find themselves a year behind again.
 
NAG said:
Examples? Additionally, if you're including the yet to be released Windows Phone 7 Series OS then you're being completely irrational.
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Um, did you really expect the person who typed this:

Rodimus Prime said:
It to stop counting on 4.0 to be some end all thing but release it will be catch up items or not impressive at all items.
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To give you rational thinking?

;)

cmaier said:
Of course it is. That's a tautology. Every new product loses its competitive advantage over time, until it is refreshed. If I was running a race, and I got out to an early lead, and then I stood there for 9-12 months, you can bet my competitor would begin to catch up.
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The other classic line about iPhone competitors is "What do you expect for a 1.0 product? The iPhone OS has been around for 3 years! Give this product 3 years to mature and Apple will be in big trouble!"

Um, yeah, well, two problems with that particular argument. 1) Apple isn't sitting still (as you mentioned), and 2) (and perhaps more importantly) Buyers are choosing between the 3.0 and the 1.0 product right now. If the 1.0 product isn't competitive, they don't give a flying fig how many years of a head start the 3.0 product got. Products compete in the now.

Which is why the adulation over Windows Phone 7 Series is so amusing. It won't even be out for another 10 months, and already people are making excuses for how much potential it has with later revisions. So in essence WP7S will have all the kinks worked out 3 years from now, and oh, Apple is going to be sitting on their thumbs all that time. Uh huh.
 
LagunaSol said:
The other classic line about iPhone competitors is "What do you expect for a 1.0 product? The iPhone OS has been around for 3 years! Give this product 3 years to mature and Apple will be in big trouble!"

Um, yeah, well, two problems with that particular argument. 1) Apple isn't sitting still (as you mentioned), and 2) (and perhaps more importantly) Buyers are choosing between the 3.0 and the 1.0 product right now. If the 1.0 product isn't competitive, they don't give a flying fig how many years of a head start the 3.0 product got. Products compete in the now.

Which is why the adulation over Windows Phone 7 Series is so amusing. It won't even be out for another 10 months, and already people are making excuses for how much potential it has with later revisions. So in essence WP7S will have all the kinks worked out 3 years from now, and oh, Apple is going to be sitting on their thumbs all that time. Uh huh.
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There are some flaws in your line of thinking as well.

A 1.0 product can have some minor flaws in it that just take some time to work out and you can see the potential of the product as it matures.

Now "right now" on a 1.0 it does not have to beat the iPhone and you have to let slide minor bugs. But give it a year or 2 to grow and it should have those minor bugs worked out and compete on the with what the iPhone will be in a year or 2.

Take for example Android or palms. It had a lot of 1.0 bugs in the product and software. Things like the slider for the pre. Those are first gen problems but the OS itself has some amazing thing in it. One is how it handles multitasking. It is very well done. Give it a year or 2 to work out the bugs and it can really take off. The potentional for the product is there not that I expect you to see that potentional because you refuse to even look for it and only look for problems
 
cycomiko said:
Does that sort of argument only find approval from you when its talking about iPad, and seeing where it is in 18months time?
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Agreed. Seems like a double standard.

Many people here say time and time again don't judge a product until after it's released, speaking in regards to the iPad of course. However, any non-Apple products are always free game to extreme criticism.
 
Cathode said:
Agreed. Seems like a double standard.

Many people here say time and time again don't judge a product until after it's released, speaking in regards to the iPad of course. However, any non-Apple products are always free game to extreme criticism.
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It's fair to wait about 12-18 months to see where all these new products end up. But that doesn't mean people shouldn't be free to point out the weaknesses that are apparent at first blush.
 
Windows Mobile 7 and Copy-and-Paste
Daring Fireball 10-02-16 11:02 PM John Gruber http://daringfireball.net/

Greg Kumparek:

As far as I could tell, there is currently no copy/paste functionality. We were told that “developers will hear more about that” at Microsoft’s MIX conference next month, though it was implied that it would be about why copy and paste “won’t be necessary” rather than when it was coming.

How 2007.
 
*LTD* said:
Windows Mobile 7 and Copy-and-Paste
Daring Fireball 10-02-16 11:02 PM John Gruber http://daringfireball.net/

Greg Kumparek:

As far as I could tell, there is currently no copy/paste functionality. We were told that “developers will hear more about that” at Microsoft’s MIX conference next month, though it was implied that it would be about why copy and paste “won’t be necessary” rather than when it was coming.

How 2007.
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No use bashing them on it yet. You have to wait until next month to reserve judgment.

Also remember MS has implied that they will be adding more to WM7 before it will be released.
 
*LTD* said:
Windows Mobile 7 and Copy-and-Paste
Daring Fireball 10-02-16 11:02 PM John Gruber http://daringfireball.net/

Greg Kumparek:

As far as I could tell, there is currently no copy/paste functionality. We were told that “developers will hear more about that” at Microsoft’s MIX conference next month, though it was implied that it would be about why copy and paste “won’t be necessary” rather than when it was coming.

How 2007.
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ZOMG! Next you'll find a source saying it can't multitask! :eek::eek::eek:

How 2001. (Symbian OS 6.0 & Nokia 9210 circa 2001) :D
 
Rodimus Prime said:
Lack of sleep and dyslexia do not mix well at all....

Went back and fixed it to implied.
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Ok. Well they implied lots of things, but this is a company that is famous for vaporware. Their long-held strategy is to announce things and produce product demos in order to cut the feet out from under competitors, and eventually produce nothing.

This time may be different, but I'll wait until the product is released and on the market for a bit before judging it one way or another.
 
cmaier said:
Ok. Well they implied lots of things, but this is a company that is famous for vaporware. Their long-held strategy is to announce things and produce product demos in order to cut the feet out from under competitors, and eventually produce nothing.

This time may be different, but I'll wait until the product is released and on the market for a bit before judging it one way or another.
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Well I was a bit more interested in WM7 so I did check out WMexpert site and list to there podscast about it that filled in some gap.
They were talking about the difference between the 6.5 announcement last year (which delivered exactly what was promised) and this one. The guy presenting it seem truly exited about it compared to last year the same guy seem to be faking it.

The pod cast was fun to listen to because you have a lot of the a lot of the smart phone experts taking part making cometary, they being slight tipsy and running on next to no sleep.
The experts being the people from sites like crackberry.com, Pre expert site, WMexpert and I am not sure who else.
 
TurboSC said:
Lets hope Apple has a response to the Windows Phone... LET THE BATTLE ROYALE BEGIN!
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They do. It's called the iPhone 3G. With any luck MS will only be a year behind by the time they get around to pushing out and pinching off their latest me-too product.
 
*LTD* said:
They do. It's called the iPhone 3G. With any luck MS will only be a year behind by the time they get around to pushing out and pinching off their latest me-too product.
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And Apple has to do both software and hardware, while Microsoft can't even get software part right.
 
THE UI is a dog's breakfast. The "hub" idea is retarded on anything but a TV UI like media center. It was inexcusable that they did not have the dial screen working on a "phone".

I got the impression that they don't want developers to write traditional apps but rather tie into their "HUB" idea. I don't think that will fly well with third party developers after the initial newness rubs off. They will not like having no full control of their UI.

The demo also seemed to indicate that they were supporting a number of social networks out of the box which decreases the market for third party apps. That seems so unlike Microsoft which usually relies on the partner model.

I'm shocked by the number of MSFT Kool-aid drinkers on here calling other people who disagree with them kool-aid drinkers. There are serious flaws with this software.

Anyone who thinks that this thing in its current state represents credible competition is drunk on the Kool-aid punch or a Microserf.
 
The whole UI, especially the way text spills off the screen, brings to mind this Steve Jobs quotation:
The only problem with Microsoft is they just have no taste. They have absolutely no taste...they don't bring much culture into their product. Why is that important? Well proportionally spaced fonts come from typesetting in beautiful books, that's where one gets the idea. If it weren't for the Mac they would never have that in their products.
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The phone doesn't even capitalize the menu items. Maybe Microsoft's market research told them proper capitalization isn't cool anymore :confused:

It looks like the only selling point is social networking integration, but what if Google integrates Buzz into future Android releases? Why would anyone choose this cluttered, travesty of a UI over iPhone or Android?
 
GSV said:
The whole UI, especially the way text spills off the screen, brings to mind this Steve Jobs quotation:


The phone doesn't even capitalize the menu items. Maybe Microsoft's market research told them proper capitalization isn't cool anymore :confused:

It looks like the only selling point is social networking integration, but what if Google integrates Buzz into future Android releases? Why would anyone choose this cluttered, travesty of a UI over iPhone or Android?
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We will have to wait for the actual phone/s with this new OS.
 
MMX said:
We will have to wait for the actual phone/s with this new OS.
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Yeah, I guess I'll reserve my bashing energy for when they actually come out. At least MS has their retail stores. I tried to look at a Zune HD in Best Buy once, and it was zip tied down to the table with the plastic running across the screen. That's no way to display a product.
 
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