Microsoft Says 'Disappointment' of New MacBook Pro Has More People Switching to Surface Than Ever Before

[Donoban]

Time to Market, is a concept Jobs knew well (by learning the hard way + trial & error).

Apple led by The Cook is sorely missing this viewpoint on innovation and release planning.

Instead of awareness and creating compelling steps to the future,
Cook is forcing the market down a path while resting on the laurels of Team Jobs.

Jobs would release products that worked a specific way and make a market around that. I see the same concept under cook but I feel the same as you, cook doesn't seem to be the visionary jobs was. Cook is more likely a numbers man, putting effort where the dollars are.

 

[pier]

As for the tools / apps you're citing: I've literally never heard of a single one of these. But citing the app ecosystem in defence of the Mac is a bit ridiculous.

You know what's really ridiculous?

Arguing that because you don't know something it doesn't have any value to others.

 

[Rob_2811]

Just on this..

No numbers?




Meaningless. 1000 trade ins v 1001 trade-ins would be the best ever.

I agree with what you're saying but lets be honest Apple does exactly the same thing. "Apple Watch sales are off the charts.." and then.. no numbers. "MacBook Pro has had the most pre orders of any pro notebook" again no numbers.

Good work or profitable work?

Why should the customer make the distinction?

I can only speak for myself but I just want Apple to put out good computers I could care a jot how much they make on them. If anything Apples constant push for huge margins on everything is a barrier to them releasing a machine with the best user experience possible. 4k iMac with a 5400 rpm hard drive is the clearest example of that you'll ever find.

 

[pier]

Jobs would release products that worked a specific way and make a market around that. I see the same concept under cook but I feel the same as you, cook doesn't seem to be the visionary jobs was. Cook is more likely a numbers man, putting effort where the dollars are.

Tim Cook is a business man that knows how to run a company but lacks a product vision. I'm pretty sure he leaves those matters to Ive, Schiller, etc, supervising that from far away. In the Apple events he talks about stuff that matters to share holders: numbers, adoption rate, growth, etc. Those are the metrics that matter to him.

That's not a bad thing per se, but I've been using Macs for over a decade and I feel that Apple now is completely out of touch with reality.

 

[cdmoore74]

I think this has more to do with the price than anything else.

Wrong!!! $200 laptops have more connectivity than a Apple Mac Book costing 5 to 10 times as much. And if the performance matched top Windows machines people would be able to justify the cost. Last but not least you can upgrade many Windows laptops. So price is on the list but it's not the primary factor.

 

[NufSaid]

I may be the one lone wolf here.
There a bunch of things that the MBPro gets right but some it doesn't. What I LOVE about the MBPro is the USB C and no other connectors.

I dream of plugging in one cord to a USB C monitor and having it connect and power everything. Keep in mind that you need to add $200 to the already higher price of the surface book to buy their "dock".

 

[Martyimac]

I may be the one lone wolf here.
There a bunch of things that the MBPro gets right but some it doesn't. What I LOVE about the MBPro is the USB C and no other connectors.

I dream of plugging in one cord to a USB C monitor and having it connect and power everything. Keep in mind that you need to add $200 to the already higher price of the surface book to buy their "dock".

And how much is your "USB C monitor"/dock going to cost? More, less or the same as the "dock" others have to buy?

 

[frankgrimes]

I may be the one lone wolf here.
There a bunch of things that the MBPro gets right but some it doesn't. What I LOVE about the MBPro is the USB C and no other connectors.

I dream of plugging in one cord to a USB C monitor and having it connect and power everything. Keep in mind that you need to add $200 to the already higher price of the surface book to buy their "dock".

What? You need a dock to connect this thing to a TV monitor? And it's an extra $ 200 is that dock made with gold? A mid range SB is like 1.900 euros excluding SD card, Dock that would easily 2.200 for a dual core insane

 

[NufSaid]

And how much is your "USB C monitor"/dock going to cost? More, less or the same as the "dock" others have to buy?

Nothing when it is time for a new one anyway. But that becomes the issue when these debates rage. I don't care much for size over battery life but others may go Niue's over the size.

For me plugging one cable in is minimalist bliss.

 

[kis]

What? You need a dock to connect this thing to a TV monitor? And it's an extra $ 200 is that dock made with gold? A mid range SB is like 1.900 euros excluding SD card, Dock that would easily 2.200 for a dual core insane

No you don't - you need a 20$ mini-DP to HDMI cable. Unfortunately, neither the 2016 MBP nor the Surface Book come with HDMI. The 200$ dock (which is often included for free in bundle deals) has 4 USB 3.0 ports, 2 Mini-DP Ports and Gigabit Ethernet.

 

[frankgrimes]

No you don't - you need a 20$ mini-DP to HDMI cable. Unfortunately, neither the 2016 MBP nor the Surface Book come with HDMI. The 200$ dock (which is often included for free in bundle deals) has 4 USB 3.0 ports, 2 Mini-DP Ports and Gigabit Ethernet.

Thank you this sounds a lot better. Dock sounds like a cool device for people that want to use this as their main machine.

Yeah both are very expensive but also scarce when it comes to ports.

 

[kis]

Thank you this sounds a lot better. Dock sounds like a cool device for people that want to use this as their main machine.

Yeah both are very expensive but also scarce when it comes to ports.

yeah - but unfortunately it lacks Thunderbolt :-/ Still, you connect it to the Surface Book (or Surface Pro 4 for that matter, it's compatible with both) with just one cable and you get ethernet, additional ports etc. It's a good solution for those who use the Surface Book as their desktop replacement.

 

[Easttime]

if all your existing backup drives are USB-A, you either buy new drives, buy dongles, or buy iCloud storage. Pick one

I solved this one with a $9 Apple adapter.

 

[SoyCapitanSoyCapitan]

The price is high but it means nothing if that's a tax deductible business expense. Just means the taxman gets less and Apple gets more. Your personal income shouldn't be affected if you know how to do your accounts. Hence...professional machine.

 

[niploteksi]

Absolutely! With their pure greed 20% UK price increase, the 13" MBKP 512GB is near £2000!!! Even a damn MacBook M5 is £1550. Who in their right mind would pay that??? Especially for something that only lasts 4 or 5 years. Simply crazy.

I did some checking on Apple sites in Europe and most sites have lower prices (excluding sales tax) than the US.

Edit: although I only compared the base 13" MBP

 

[Beavix]

I did some checking on Apple sites in Europe and most sites have lower prices (excluding sales tax) than the US.

How is 2699* Euro lower than $2579** USD?

* VAT for Germany included
** California sales tax included

 

[niploteksi]

How is 2699* Euro lower than $2579** USD?

* VAT for Germany included
** California sales tax included

I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the US apple store didn't include sales tax.

 

[lowendlinux]

How is 2699* Euro lower than $2579** USD?

* VAT for Germany included
** California sales tax included

If you remove tax the computer you're quoting is 2268 Euro which is $2365. That MBP $2399 without tax on apple.com

 

[Beavix]

If you remove tax the computer you're quoting is 2268 Euro which is $2365. That MBP $2399 without tax on apple.com

Unless you're a business the price without VAT is irrelevant in Europe. That's why all prices always include VAT, because all consumers have to pay it.

 

[lowendlinux]

Unless you're a business the price without VAT is irrelevant in Europe. That's why all prices always include VAT, because all consumers have to pay it.

I'm not arguing that point, but it's not money Apple charges the price is the same between here and the states.

 

[Beavix]

I'm not arguing that point, but it's not money Apple charges the price is the same between here and the states.

You're right, but the bottom line is we still pay more than the people in the US

 

[lowendlinux]

You're right, but the bottom line is we still pay more than the people in the US

Yes you do but you have a lot of things Americans don't have which VAT helps pay for.

 

[WinMacLinux]

Neo-switchers deserve what they get. Anyone who thinks MS offers long-term solutions for productivity-minded creatives is deluding themselves. Windows is still ... Windows.

Actually Windows has changed quite a bit. Windows is Windows (W32) it's also new (Windows Universal Platform) and Open (Ubuntu is now first party and part of Windows). Visual Studio is now free, .NET is now open sourced. I don't see how you think you can get away with saying that MS isn't being long term and productivity minded. Your mindset is exactly why Apple is in the position they are in: you see no other choice and it doesn't matter how ****** of a Job apple does, they are your only option. Well congratulations, that sense of complacency has produced the Apple of today.
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I may be mistaken, but I was under the impression that the US apple store didn't include sales tax.

Their prices don't include tax, but the consumer still has to pay for it. You have to add tax yourself to the quoted price.

 

[niploteksi]

Their prices don't include tax, but the consumer still has to pay for it. You have to add tax yourself to the quoted price.

I do understand that there are sales tax in the US as well, I just felt that there was a lot "it's so expensive in Europe" going around the threads in this forum. I'm far from a tax expert but I see sales tax as being part of the corporate tax system. From what I understand the US has the third highest corporate tax (even if I have no idea if corporations actually pay it) in the world. I'm not sure how Apple compensates for this tax in the US keeping the same prices.

Aren't Microsoft products equally affected by the sales tax here in Europe?

 

[WinMacLinux]

I do understand that there are sales tax in the US as well, I just felt that there was a lot "it's so expensive in Europe" going around the threads in this forum. I'm far from a tax expert but I see sales tax as being part of the corporate tax system. From what I understand the US has the third highest corporate tax (even if I have no idea if corporations actually pay it) in the world. I'm not sure how Apple compensates for this tax in the US keeping the same prices.

Aren't Microsoft products equally affected by the sales tax here in Europe?

Corporate taxes in the US are actually historically low when you determine actual tax paid, not the nominal rate. The nominal rate of 35% would be if a company declared absolutely no exceptions. In the case of Apple Europe they paid roughly 0.005% taxes in the last decade.

But enough of that. The VAT is not a corporate tax. That is the tax that the consumer pays. It is built up by businesses. Each business pays VAT on all materials, and subtracts the added quantity (or adds it). In the end the VAT is distributed over all manufactures involved in the processes, and collected by the last point of sale.