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If Microsoft thinks they can beat apple's battery life on any device made by apple I call BS. Apple has the best battery life in the industry and I'm sorry but windows 10 does not have that kind of optimisation. I understand that the advertising of how much battery life a device gets is slightly exaggerated but saying it's better than apple is really pushing it.
 
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Ah I got you now. I just don't really consider the Surface Pro a tablet. More of a laptop with touch capabilities like the rest of them. As a tablet, windows 10 is pretty lousy.
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Aren't there other laptops with the same processor out there running windows 10 with a touchscreen?

I love windows 10 on a tablet, Microsoft really deserves a lot of credit for how much work they've done to work on both desktop and tablet. Once again just my opinion, but it trounces iOS as a mobile/touch platform. I've never understood the need to dumb oneself down just to be mobile. Yes I understood the need 10 years ago due to battery life and tablet sizes and things like that, but that was 10 years ago. Now you can have a full OS without compromises like weight, battery life, etc.
 
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You could spend $2,700 and get a powerful desktop and a lightweight ultrabook/2-in-1.

And you'd get the best of both worlds... with both computers doing the best they can.

Instead of the "jack of all trades... master of none" Surface Pro. :)

OR a superb used ThinkPad AND an iPad Pro, and have almost TWO GRAND left!

(Un)common sense, useful thing.
 
I may have missed some earlier comments similar to yours, but you seem to be one of the first people in 12 pages of comments to mention the REAL battery life of Surface tablets -- with the Surface Pro 4, it is at most 6-7 hours (probably more like 5.5 on average). A few of my friends own them, and I was curious, so I have regularly inquired...to see if there were any improvements due to software updates. Over the course of 1+ year of my asking, none of them has seen battery life improvements. I believe that Microsoft previously claimed 9 hours battery life for the Surface Pro 4. So that 6 hours instead of 9 hours life = 67% of the claimed battery capability.

Estimating the same 67% 'real-life' performance on this new claim of 13.5 hours...would give you 9 hours of battery life with the new Surface Pro! Still far less than I get on my iPad Pro's (minimum 10 hours, but usually more like 13-14 hours, depending on brightness settings; and this is with LTE/cellular always ON).

I do think that the Surface Pro is an interesting and beautifully made product - if I really wanted a Windows machine, I probably would buy the NEXT iteration (when they call it the "5", if that's what they're planning). I think that no USB-C and their hideous wall-wart power block/connector are a real failure for a Windows machine and a laptop-replacement or alternative. USB-C would allow the use of power packs like we can use with iPads and Macbook/Pros thanks to the power source -- this is a real benefit to users, particularly if one does need to have some reassurance that you won't run out of power when there's no access.

Regarding the CPUs, the i5 and i7 -- are these the renamed M5 and M7 lines? or are they real i5 and i7s (prior to MS changing their naming conventions)?

Absolutely correct on battery life. My surface pro 4 will get 6-7 hours with average use, something like watching a video on medium brightness will get me closer to 8-9 hours. As a consumption tablet, videos, pictures, web browsing it's probably somewhere in the middle, 7-8 hours. If someone likes the ipad because it gets better battery life, I get it, I totally get it and they should buy an ipad. I'm hoping Microsofts claims of 13.5 hours in reality means I will get 8-9 hours using it as a desktop, and 9-10 hours as a consumption device. To get a full OS for that long, I'm more than happy with those numbers.

I also agree that the SP4 wall wart is terrible and often wish they had something like the ipad. Definitely something they can improve upon. USB-C I'm mixed on, I don't have any USB-C devices I use so really don't care. But by the same token it would be nice to future proof it. It's amusing and ironic that in Apple-fashion they provide a USB-C dongle.

But once again it depends on your needs.
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Yes, it has a tablet mode, but the vast majority of apps are designed for the standard windows interface they are not optimized for touch. They've just enabled a touch layer as an extra function.

Do you mean legacy programs are not optimized for touch? You would be surprised at how well windows UI scaling works, but still I'm not denying that they are not optimized for touch. Although some of the big players out there ARE optimized for touch, such as Microsoft Office, most of Adobe's products, etc. These are programs I'm talking about, full desktop programs you can't get on the ipad. It's more than enabling a touch layer, the developers have changed the UI around to be both desktop and touch friendly, and if they haven't then the way windows scales things helps out quite a bit.

Just to differentiate windows apps ARE just as optimized for touch depending on the developer, of course that's a small point because of the dearth of apps for windows.
 
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Ah I got you now. I just don't really consider the Surface Pro a tablet. More of a laptop with touch capabilities like the rest of them. As a tablet, windows 10 is pretty lousy.
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Aren't there other laptops with the same processor out there running windows 10 with a touchscreen?

Give me examples of how Surface Pro is lousy as a tablet? It can do browsing, Netflix, buy movies, play music, play games last I checked.
 
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well it would certainly be embarrassing if their new product was SLOWER than a 18 month old apple product, wouldnt it? and ill assume the new pro will be faster than the current surface.. yadda yadda.
Well, Apple may well unveil an iPad Pro which is faster than the Surface Pro. Will that matter? These are two different devices which do different things. And, quite frankly, iOS is so limited that it seems to me a waste to put so much power into the iPad. Even if the Surface Pro is less powerful, it allows the user to do far more things.

And well, if it is embarassing somehow, it is embarassing for Intel and not Microsoft. Intel is the one which manufactures the Kaby Lake processors, and I don't see how Microsoft could have made it faster.
 
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1. Surface Pro can work without a mouse, but even Windows 10's tablet mode cannot compare to a touch-first UI like Android or iOS.
2. How often do Surface Pro users REALLY use the Surface Pro without a keyboard? It comes with a keyboard with a trackpad by default and that's how people tend to use it.
3. The version Microsoft just announced might be different, but previous generations of Surface Pro didn't have nearly the battery life of an iPad.

1. Sure it can, it compares very well and in many aspects superior to iOS (Android? lol) IMO. Honestly I can't even remember the last time I used a mouse on my SP4 unless it was hooked up to a large external monitor.
2. I use my SP4 without a keyboard all the time. News flash, it has a very nice software touch keyboard just the same as the ipad has. There are times and places for the trackpad and I'm glad to have the choice, but I rarely find a need for it.
3. Agreed, that's been a sore point for me. Even the new version likely won't have the battery life the ipads have. I totally understand if someone chooses the ipad for battery life, you have to pick and choose your trade offs.
 
According to Anandtech, the Apple Pencil has about 49ms latency. If the Surface Pen has 21ms latency, that's pretty incredible.

I'm skeptical about the 13.5hr battery life. I've learned to cut windows battery life in half despite what people claim.

Personally, I'm not a fan of tablet/laptop hybrids, but this is a pretty nice looking one.
 
Wait, does the i7 Surface get better battery life than the A9X iPad? Or are they comparing the m3 to the iPad in the battery life test? Cause the former would be both surprising to me and bad-looking for Apple.

Edit: MacRumors, your title is incorrect. Their battery life claim is for the i5 Surface, not the i7, but the 1.7X speed claim is for the i7.
Up to 13.5 hours of video playback. Testing conducted by Microsoft in April 2017 using preproduction Intel Core i5, 256GB, 8 GB RAM device.
 
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Wait, does the i7 Surface get better battery life than the A9X iPad? Or are they comparing the m3 to the iPad in the battery life test? Cause the former would be both surprising to me and bad-looking for Apple.
https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2017/05/23/meet-new-surface-pro/#5odXAwygq6WyMZzk.97

"Up to 13.5 hours for video playback. Testing conducted by Microsoft in April 2017 using preproduction Intel Core i5, 256GB, 8 GB RAM device. Testing consisted of full battery discharge during video playback. All settings were default except: Wi-Fi was associated with a network and Auto-Brightness disabled."

EDIT: Whoops, missed your edit, but yes it's the i5 version being tested.
 
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Well, Apple may well unveil an iPad Pro which is faster than the Surface Pro. Will that matter? These are two different devices which do different things. And, quite frankly, iOS is so limited that it seems to me a waste to put so much power into the iPad. Even if the Surface Pro is less powerful, it allows the user to do far more things.

And well, if it is embarassing somehow, it is embarassing for Intel and not Microsoft. Intel is the one which manufactures the Kaby Lake processors, and I don't see how Microsoft could have made it faster.
If the iPad is slower, which it probably ought to be, it should have a better battery life. But IDK what's faster, A9X or i5.
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https://blogs.windows.com/devices/2017/05/23/meet-new-surface-pro/#5odXAwygq6WyMZzk.97

"Up to 13.5 hours for video playback. Testing conducted by Microsoft in April 2017 using preproduction Intel Core i5, 256GB, 8 GB RAM device. Testing consisted of full battery discharge during video playback. All settings were default except: Wi-Fi was associated with a network and Auto-Brightness disabled."

EDIT: Whoops, missed your edit, but yes it's the i5 version being tested.
Sorry. Yeah, and I'll be shocked if the i7 model, which has a fan, lasts longer on battery than the iPad Pro... unless it just has a way bigger battery. It is heavier.
 
Well, Apple may well unveil an iPad Pro which is faster than the Surface Pro. Will that matter? These are two different devices which do different things. And, quite frankly, iOS is so limited that it seems to me a waste to put so much power into the iPad. Even if the Surface Pro is less powerful, it allows the user to do far more things.

And well, if it is embarassing somehow, it is embarassing for Intel and not Microsoft. Intel is the one which manufactures the Kaby Lake processors, and I don't see how Microsoft could have made it faster.
I doubt it will be faster than a Surface Pro. Microsoft also awkwardly worded it as "1.7 times the compute of iPad Pro", that's extremely vague. That might even be based on paper data and not any single benchmark.
 
Faster and better battery is nice, but really, the question of iPad vs. Surface has always boiled down to whether you want a mobile OS or a desktop OS.
 
Give me examples of how Surface Pro is lousy as a tablet? It can do browsing, Netflix, buy movies, play music, play games last I checked.

Contrary to popular belief I can do ANYTHING on my SP4 that I can do on an ipad. Granted the ipad has the edge in apps, but windows has a MASSIVE edge in legacy programs, and I've yet to find an app on iOS that I couldn't match with a web interface, legacy program or similar app. Many times the iOS app is the one that is inferior due to lack of functionality. In their quest for "simplicity" (aka you better pay for 2 devices) many times Apple has made it more difficult to use an app.
 
But IDK what's faster, A9X or i5.

Anandtech showed the 5Y71 (5th gen Y series) offered slightly higher performance than the A9X (source).

"Finally, going back to Broadwell we have the ASUS Transformer Book T300 Chi, which incorporates a high-end Core M-5Y71 processor. This is still officially a 4.5W TDP processor, and as a result this essentially measures Broadwell Core M’s best case performance. With a maximum CPU clockspeed of 2.9GHz as compared to the slower low-end Skylake and Broadwell CPUs, the T300 Chi unsurprisingly beats the iPad Pro in every single benchmark. At best the two are neck-and-neck with Apple’s best benchmark, 445.gobmk, but otherwise it’s a clear and very significant lead for Intel’s fastest Broadwell Core M processor."

If a 5th Gen Y series outperformed the A9X, the i5-7300U Surface Pro is most definitely faster. Which again, raises the question of what Microsoft was trying to say when they said "1.7 times the compute of iPad Pro".
 
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An Intel Core i7 which requires a fan to keep cool is only 1.7x faster than a 2 year old A9X ARM CPU? Doesn't sound too impressive.

Exactly, feels like a desperate spin. Come next month we'll see what leaps Apple has made with their iPads. I'm quite excited to see what happens when these mobile ARM chips start consistently exceeding the performance of a run-of-the-mill x86.
 
Responding to Poster who said Windows 10 was designed from ground up as Mobile UI
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It works fine as a tablet; its touch repsonse and UI is every bit as good as an ipad. I use as an art tablet almost exclusively--yes, without the keyboard. It is a very popular art and design tablet. But, whatever.
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Look up hybrid in the dictionary

Window 10 in tablet mode has excellent response. However, the touch points for many of the objects is pretty small. In addition, there is a difference between Windows desktop apps (primarily mouse oriented) and the apps that are optimized for a touch interface.

This article might be a little old, but it expresses things better than I can:
https://www.theverge.com/2015/7/29/9055743/microsoft-windows-10-tablet-mode-mobile-os
 
Windows? Pass. I use the Surface for my employer. I'll take my iPad any day. Just the software updates for my Surface alone, kill the experience. They are relentless. And Windows is just too cumbersome for a tablet experience. Opening Apps - ummm, software - whatever, on the Surface is so much slower too. Everything on the iPad is simply snappier. And I mean in a truly noticeable way. Sure, list the professional Apps you can only run on Windows argument from a decade ago - but 9 out of 10 business people I know are opening emails, creating graphs or presentations ( I know - "decks' now). All things I can do just as easily on an iPad (actually, more easily). It's nice looking hardware - If only they would clean out the bloat-ware. Don't need that in the world of mobile computing.
 
All the numbers are cool. But you will know how good it really is once you have used it for a while.
 
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