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Just curious. How many folks, who's response is that it's running windows 10, have spent more than a week or two actually using the new surface products?

The reason why I own an iPhone, is because it just works. The reason why I own a surface book with windows 10, is because it just works.

Most of my products are Apple, but my desktop is Windows 10 for gaming. I agree with you, a lot of people talking trash on windows has not fully used it since its worst days like vista. It really has come back from the dead.
 
Most of my products are Apple, but my desktop is Windows 10 for gaming. I agree with you, a lot of people talking trash on windows has not fully used it since its worst days like vista. It really has come back from the dead.
Anyone making those types of comments is just using it as an excuse to quickly dismiss Microsoft's offerings.
 
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Actually no, apple has been positioning the iPad pro as a laptop replacement so the comparison is fair. The Surface is a laptop on a tablet form factor, and its in the same price point as the iPad Pro.

I think that bodes well for Apple and their chip design moving forward. Your first point is true though, an iPad can replace a laptop for what most people use a laptop for. Not all users. I think this is where the argument gets lost.
 
I'm... really surprised that there are still people--even here--who think of the iPad as "a big iPhone". I thought (hoped, I guess) that that particularly misinformed meme had died. Ah well. Like everything on the internet, it will never die, because the internet doesn't know how to let anything die.

It hasn't died -- because it is true. I have a 12.9" iPad Pro. It's a complete joke and a waste of money.
 
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Apple does need to increase the 10 hour battery life I feel like they haven't tried to improve the battery life very much, 13 hours does sound better.

No, No, No!!!! Apple needs to let us decide if we want battery life or performance. Apple making the decision for us, by limiting the processor speed (as they do now on all products) is just wrong. They need to design a robust product that can be used by people that do more than read email, snapchat, and tweet.
 
I had an SP4 I bought at launch about a year and a half ago. Between glitchy hardware, bad firmware that always was leading to a drained battery, windows 10 updates which fixed then broke things, and just generally a frustrating experience, I sold it and went back to Macs. I found with the SP4 I was constantly on reddit forums just trying to figure out how to troubleshoot what I had or figure out the new latest problem introduced after a new windows update which messed up other SP4 functionality. As for battery life, I know it depends on what you do but I was lucky to get around 5.5 hours (rated at 9), just doing outlook and some browsing, but no heavy duty programs. It was such a bad experience I ran from windows after that. Onenote was a syncing mess, I lost a bunch of important notes in one of my hardware swaps since Onenote decided it didn't want to sync 2 weeks of notes. It's still enticing to see the new hardware, and it's a cool concept but when you're trying to run a business from your computer you just need something that's reliable and works, and the SP4 was neither. Oh, as well, I had to do advanced exchange 2 times on mine, first one had a flickering screen below 25% brightness, my replacement one looked mint but had a blown speaker, the third one was a keeper but had a slightly bent frame/screen, and a small scratch on the back so that's the one I kept then sold shortly after. People complain about new apple hardware at times, and yes, it can be glitchy too, but my SP4 was such a bad experience that I'm not entertaining the idea of going back anytime soon, I look at new product launches very carefully and now usually wait until about 6 months in (and read forums), before taking the plunge.
 
But by the very definition of the iPad Pro, it too is trying to become the jack of all trades.

I can just as easily state that the iPad is a crap Laptop, as akin to you saying the Surface is a crap tablet
It's not a laptop, it's a tablet with option to use keyboard and OS which is not trying to be what windows currently trying to be. You see word replacement and you automatically assume it has to be the same as a thing it replaces. Apple means it in another way. As you use the device you discover new ways to do things and you realise you don't need all that baggage that comes with windows.

People who are stuck in a hoarder mode don't understand simple things.
 
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I own an SP4 that i'm in the process of selling. The concept is nice, but in actual use it just isn't that great. Battery life is mediocre, the kickstand is nice but annoying when trying to use it like a laptop. The keyboard and trackpad are actually really nice, along with the pen.

My biggest annoyance is that microsoft still hasn't figured out sleep mode. For whatever reason the thing has to hibernate after you leave it for an hour, meaning you hit the on button and wait about 10 seconds on the surface logo before you can use the thing. My MacBook has had instant on from sleep since 2006...why does this not exist in windows in 2017?
 
At this point processor speed is mainly irrelevant to most users actual use of a device. That said the Surface Pro is an excellent bit of hardware for Pro CAD and Designers/Animators that want mobile performance. We don't deploy many but those that request them are very happy with them for their uses. Different stokes for different folks. There are quite a few niche things that Macs/iPads are not suited to.

I use Mac/iOS and Linux mainly and support all platforms. W10 has come on leaps and bounds and MS strategy is somewhat less annoying and haphazard than Apples in many respects. Mac Pro trash can killed Pro users at out sites we moved to HP Z workstations. Apple have lost out this year at our sites with their completely overpriced MacBook Pro range...with only a handful being deployed.

We are not tied to 1 vendor or platform and I'm glad of that. We get the right fit for ours users that way.
 
The thing that gets me isn't the supposed speed difference or the supposed battery life but how close it is in weight.

Apple needs to step their game up.
 
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The entire industry needs to kill this hybrid tablet-laptop BS and just go back to making solid products. That includes the 12.9 iPad Pro and Microsoft Surface.




Whats next, combining a toaster and refrigerator and selling it to consumers?
 
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Who said Apple can't take the heat?

If PCs are like trucks, and iPads are like cars, then Apple's argument can be that most people really don't need a large truck for day to day driving, and that a car would be fine. Sure, a larger engine in a truck will likely produce more power than a smaller efficient engine in a car, but that doesn't mean a car can't compete with a truck when it comes to needs for most people with day to day tasks.

But Apple's strategy is, or recent actions are, to say that no one needs a truck, which is patently wrong and out of touch.
 
But Apple's strategy is, or recent actions are, to say that no one needs a truck, which is patently wrong and out of touch.

Who said that? I have only heard them say that an iPad can replace a laptop for most people, which is true. It cannot replace a laptop for all people, but that doesn't make it any less of a laptop.
 
Who said that? I have only heard them say that an iPad can replace a laptop for most people, which is true. It cannot replace a laptop for all people, but that doesn't make it any less of a laptop.
Chromebooks can replace a laptop for most people because they are cheap and affordable and actually has the necessary features needed to be a true laptop. A iPad cannot replace a laptop for most people.
 
Chromebooks can replace a laptop for most people because they are cheap and affordable and actually has the necessary features needed to be a true laptop. A iPad cannot replace a laptop for most people.

Whaaa? A Chromebook has less functionality than an iPad. It's just a laptop running an Internet browser.

What's all this "true laptop" stuff? Why can't an iPad replace a laptop for most people, but a Chromebook can?
 
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