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Don't take their claims without asking why they compare a 10 core CPU against a last version 8 core CPU that is without a fan. This seems extremely cherry picked and should be pointed out in the article, as they should be compared with the M4 CPU's that are fan cooled.

*shrug*

What do you think will happen when Apple releases M4Pro/Max MBPs?

Yep right, they gonna show cherry picked benchmarks against soon to be replaced 1 tier lower Intel or Qualcomm chips.

I don't care as long as I don't have too touch all that co pilot spyware nonsense, and if Apple pulls a hard one on AI too it might actually be the year of the Linux desktop (30th attempt is the charm).
 
Microsoft's had ARM versions of Windows for a while now. The only reason you can't install it on an ARM macbook is because Apple doesn't support it.
The main reason you can't install Windows-for-ARM natively on an ARM MacBook is that it would be significant work to write and maintain bare-metal kernel, drivers, bootloaders etc. that worked with Apple Silicon, work which would in practice need to be done by Microsoft - since Windows is closed-source - who have no interest in promoting Apple Silicon.

x86 PCs have fairly standardised architecture & firmware, use the same range of GPUs etc. plus anybody making PC hardware is pretty much obliged to supply Windows drivers. Intel Macs - especially. pre-T1/T2 - were basically PC clones, once Apple had added a BIOS compatibility module to the standard firmware, some models could boot and install from a standard Windows install disc. BootCamp on Intel Macs was mostly a set of click-and-drool tools to do the hackery of setting up a dual boot system, tweaking the Windows installer and installing the correct drivers. ARM systems are more diverse - there are standards for boot/firmware etc. but Apple Silicon does its own thing, and of course all of the GPU, Media Engine, Neural Engine etc. are Apple proprietary.

There's nothing actually blocking alternative OSs - there's already a rapidly-developing Linux distro that runs directly on Apple Silicon (which anybody can work on because it's all open source). Apple doesn't actively support it mainly because it doesn't really have a use: you can run Windows for ARM in Parallels/VMWare/UTM etc. where it runs in a simulation of compatible hardware, and the drivers are just stubs that call the host MacOS drivers. That's a more flexible solution for most people. One of the big advantages of Bootcamp on x86 was that it could access MacOS-unsupported hardware and the GPU etc. drivers from AMD/NVIDIA were sometimes better than the MacOS ones - on Apple Silicon the "native" Windows drivers would be playing catch-up with MacOS.

There's also been speculation that MS have an exclusive agreement to support Windows only on Qualcomm processors - but that's pretty moot: if, in the last 4 years or so, MS had released Windows for Apple Silicon then the Mac would have absolutely smoked anything they or other PC makers were doing with Windows-on-ARM - but Apple were hardly going to start selling M-series chips to HP/Dell/Lenovo etc. - and 3rd party vendors are central to MS's Windows business. Wouldn't be great for Apple, either, since they make money from services for the iOS/MacOS ecosystem.

Mac users get the software bundled.
...and then, if they have to interact with non-Mac users, subscribe to Office 365 and Adobe CS anyway (or use Google Docs...)

Server chips in hot demand as they are the foundation of everything on the cloud and AI. What has made Nvidia as much money as they could ever want.
...and there were already plenty of server-grade ARM chips out there from Ampere, Amazon AWS and others to compete with anything Apple came up with. What's more, Apple hasn't made server hardware since they dropped the XServe and they dropped that for good reason, since two of the Apple's "unique selling points" - the MacOS UI/ecosystem and the design/ergonomics of (particularly) Mac Laptops - are irrelevant to the server market, which is pretty much dominated by Windows Server and, increasingly, Linux. When the PPC XServe was first released there was some appeal to a Unix server without per-user license fees, plus Macs were still dependent on Mac-specific services for file sharing etc. Now, Linux and open protocols rule, and Macs don't need specialised servers.

Apple is a cell phone company that has some other minor products. So Apple when they design a CPU has to think about what is best for the phone, then they put some variation of the phone chip on the Mac.
...and Microsoft is using chips from Qualcomm, who are a company who make their money making chips for... cellphones.

Also - a good CPU for a phone - or, especially, a tablet - is the basis for a good CPU for a personal laptop (which accounts for the majority of Mac sales). The computing that's going on in a phone is not fundamentally different from what is going on in a Mac - and in modern "phones", where the phone part is almost forgotten, we're talking about a complex animated UI, video capture and processing, photo editing and re-touching (and a lot of image processing to cope with a tiny lens that, e.g. is incapable of real "bokeh" effects), face and voice recognition, 3d games... Your typical smartphone is probably working harder than your typical MacBook Air. Small, low-power CPU and GPU cores... perfect, that means you can cram more of them on a laptop/desktop chip.

Apple did a fair bit of work developing the M-series technically, but the developer transition kit proved that even an A-series chip was a perfectly credible small desktop system (even if it was only supported for 5 minutes). What Apple also did with the M-series was blow away the largely false idea that the ARM was a toy processor for embedded and cellphone applications and you had to have x86 for "real work". The fact that they're finally getting credible competition from Qualcomm is partly because Apple proved the concept.
 
The main reason you can't install Windows-for-ARM natively on an ARM MacBook is that it would be significant work to write and maintain bare-metal kernel, drivers, bootloaders etc. that worked with Apple Silicon, work which would in practice need to be done by Microsoft - since Windows is closed-source - who have no interest in promoting Apple S

Don't forget that there is still a lot of 32Bit code (both x86 and ARM) in and for Windows which just wouldn't work on Apple Silicon which has been 64Bit only even before M1.
 
I love AI support. On my Mac and iPhone, I use MS Edge. Give me Nvidia support in those MS PCs and I'm in. Apple offers new emojis and Vision Pro, MS offers AI and supports Nvidia. Both companies share benchmarks in an untrustful way that showcase their products as the best, so it's a tie. MS Windows is now fast and offers native Linux support. If MS prices are going to be lower than Apple then I see good enough reasons to end my 10-year adventure with Apple.
 
well, competition is a good thing, but the "average" customer doesn't care about cinebencz benchmarks.
More interesting, they either sell online, or like at Best Buy right next to any x86 Windows computer, so that will be their main "competition"... and it's running WinARM, so no x86 compatibility, which might not matter to non-enterprise users
factually incorrect; windows on arm does support x86 apps, through their prism translation layer. maybe try not to spread misinformation?
 
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Funny because Jobs and Wozniak stole their original Mac ideas and the concept of a mouse from Xerox...
Funny that you'd come here to lecture people on history and yet get that history badly wrong (as other commentators here have already pointed out)

To help people not have to dig up the other answers, the mouse wasn't invented at Xerox and the two Steves didn't steal a single thing from Xerox as they had permission to use whatever idea they liked from there
 
The impression is that MacOS and iOS have generally lost, no new ideas, no improvement beyond stupid emojis. Windows on ARM looks far superior and in file management, far better. It is a real computer after all. iPad can only be used for watching Netflix and its not suited for any kind of real work, that has to deal with file management. I am saying this as a iPad user (Air 5) and Mac user (Macbook pro m3).
On hardware side, new Elite X is also almost as good as M3.
Conclusion: Apple lost the mobile computing crown.
 
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whoa!! this thing is going to be so fast at rendering the ads in the start menu
 
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A 15” HDR2 touch screen Surface laptop with 16GB RAM, 256GB SSD and 22 hours battery life is $1299. A 13” OLED iPad Pro with Magic Keyboard, 8GB RAM, 256GB SSD and 10 hours battery life is $1,648. I think Apple may be seriously challenged here. Especially iPad.
I agree that this product can challenge the iPad for value. Just not a Mac yet and MS is of course trying to say it can compete with a Mac.
 
I mean this is sweet, real sweet but unfortunately with the investment in the Apple eco-system its not enough for me to move over. This is a brilliant thing though to get Apple to finally get their fingers out and learn a thing or two esp with the recent iPad OS disaster.
 
But if you remove the design constraint that the chip has to work in a phone, you can build a MUCH faster chip. Others have server-grade ARM chips. Yes, they can use a lot more power, but few people care how much power a desktop PC uses.

Again, Apple sells a lot more notebooks than desktops so if Apple does make a computer chip it is going to slanted for notebooks and battery life over raw power.
You also end up with a more power hungry chip that’s still not as powerful as the Apple Silicon design (they need more cores AND a higher wattage to barely squeak past Apple’s last year design. And EVERYONE sells more notebooks than desktops, that’s been true for years.
 
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Funny because Jobs and Wozniak stole their original Mac ideas and the concept of a mouse from Xerox...
First of all as others pointed out, they didn't steal it. Xerox let them take a tour in exchange for shares.

This is the product they saw, which IMO is not exactly a clone of Apple's first personal computer. Keep in mind, there's only so much you can do design wise with the tech available at the time:

Xerox_Alto_mit_Rechner.JPG
 
Don't take their claims without asking why they compare a 10 core CPU against a last version 8 core CPU that is without a fan. This seems extremely cherry picked and should be pointed out in the article, as they should be compared with the M4 CPU's that are fan cooled.
Apple is very good at cherrypicking benchmarketing too, especially with the Mac Pro 2023 while conveniently ignoring metrics where it isn’t quite so good.

They all do it… not much you can do but don’t buy things right away until real world testing has been done. Let someone else find out if it works well or not. ;)

Regardless, I won’t be adopting a Surface Laptop. Many years with one is enough - not another one. It was horribly slow.
 
Depending on where you live, you're paying up to $2 per day extra on energy costs alone over a Mac Studio and all the productivity apps you list above run faster on the Mac Studio, especially video encoding.

So you're really just paying a lot of money over each year just to game.
lol $2 per day? That’s negligible especially when considering productivity apps that one uses to make money/for work.

And the productivity apps don’t work better on a Mac Studio, at least the ones I use. At least until Apple lets us add discrete graphics cards to pro desktop machines (I wish). You can check all sorts of benchmarks on how windows machines with the 4090 utterly destroy Mac silicon in graphics performance.
 
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If you're using it in a setting where auto update can interrupt work (computers used once a week in church tech booths are good examples), it does matter to tweak the settings on Mac, too.
Mac OS updates would cause absolute pandemonium in music studios if auto update was always on. Just about every macOS update breaks music software!
 
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And still the whole seamless environment is missing. I don't need a device, which can't sync across all my devices, share files easily or hand-off apps or calls. It's not about CPU power or fancy AI stuff, which I can already do with existing products. It's about daily convenience
 
In any organisation seeking to a front runner there will be projects that are scrapped. No doubt other organisations have a similar track record.

In my opinion one of the problems Apple is facing is not restricted to Apple. In computing terms those requiring high power devices will have a good cause to upgrade, but for the majority of users that may not be the case. To some extent Apple is a victim of its own success, inasmuch as in computing terms 'ancient' Apple equipment still functions and in many situations is still very usable for the owners.

Open Core Legacy patcher, also brings some of this equipment up to date software wise. I've seen many a 2012 iMac with Monterey functioning really well and satiating the users requirements.

Computer manufacturers are up against it, hence the hype on AI, as no doubt the intention is to create a 'must have' attitude, and of course the temptation to build in obsolescence.

Computing has come such a long way even from my days, when we had a 12ft. x 8ft room, dust and temperature controlled and smoke cloak, for a computer with what we would consider derisory speed and memory, which is beaten in terms of performance by a massive scale with just a mobile phone.

So whilst technology is still blazing ahead with 2nm on the horizon, innovation is so very difficult, as in many cases its judged by whether the same process is faster, easier etc.

Tim for all the criticism is stuck in the same technology race as every other company, and this in my opinion is why Apple has very sensibly increased its emphasis on content/services etc., and no doubt will have to do that even more.

Yes, it has to think more as a consumer rather than how much it can reap off the consumer and RAM is one such point. They also need to include the best standards available for wi-fi, etc. etc., as at present they are falling behind implementing which competitors love.

I note that many now are revisiting an earlier suggestion years ago that Apple should license its OS as a way of stepping out of the technology upward spiral, and they certainly have been increasing revenues on media, so who knows?

This might not be popular, but whilst we may Criticise Tim for lack of innovation, RAM costs etc. etc., his diversification of the business has been vital and will continue to be so, as there are only so many computing devices that will be bought and the longevity of Apple products whilst good, also provides a potential problem then of having to compete for new users in a saturated PC market.
 
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arm windows is not the same x86 win11...it lacks legacy...so no, check surface pro x...we have been here before
so tablet with limited or underpowered desktop UI...is still garbage
It doesn’t lack legacy. The new Prism emulator layer (thanks to former Apple Silicon engineers Qualcomm erm….hired from Apple through purchasing Nuvia - Apple dropped the lawsuit and were countersued for apparently preventing Apple Silicon team members from leaving Apple) runs both x86 and x64 Windows code and apparently faster than before.

“The company says that Prism's performance should be similar to Rosetta's, though obviously this depends on the speed of the hardware you're running it on.

Microsoft also claims that Prism will further improve the translation layer’s compatibility with x86 apps”



Running three 4k monitors from the Surface is a nice little wake up call for Apple, as is the 16gb minimum. Bit of competition never hurt anyone!
 
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Still waiting Adobe and all other Software developers to launch their main apps in ARM64 compatible version. Right now we use InDesign + Illustrator 100% of our work time, so impossible to migrate to these new computers if there is no way to use "normal" apps, then no way for me to ever consider any of these new but not so cheap computers.
 
I never worked with a Surface Pro, so this is a question to current Surface Pro users. How much of that delicious hardware is gonna be occupied with serving me adds in the start menu and other places in the OS? Or nudging me into paying for office 365 and onedrive?
And do I need to pay extra for add-ins that prevents me from being tracked when browsing?
 
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