Microsoft Says New Surface Pro is Faster Than 15" M3 MacBook Air

[roncron]

Most people who buy MacBook Airs are not power users and won’t see any real world benefit from a supposedly faster Windows machine.

But some might like the Surface’s form factor or OLED display.

I’m happy for the competition, though. And while I’m a Mac guy, I’m happy that Windows people are getting some better options.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

I'm actually excited with laptops again. I have a 2019 XPS 15 OLED & need OLED to move to another laptop as LCD just looks like crap when youre used to OLED black. These surfaces finally have me interested, will buy the OLED 13.8" for sure.

I like the detachable keyboard, the insane battery life & the speed.

Apple really need an OLED laptop

Dell has their XPS 13 Snapdragon version up for sale now, in case you were interested sticking with Dell.

Dell XPS 13 Laptop - Thin Laptops | Dell USA

Shop the Dell XPS 13 Laptop featuring Copilot+, Snapdragon X Elite CPU, Windows 11 ARM, and Dolby Vision & Dolby Atmos.

www.dell.com

BestBuy is taking preorders also on lots of different brands:

Learn About Copilot in Windows - Best Buy

Shop at Best Buy for Windows devices featuring Copilot. Learn more about how to make your everyday easier.

www.bestbuy.com

 

[Alexndar]

Yeah, I tried many times throwing more hardware at Windows, but nope. You just can't fix stupid. I have an Asus laptop with 40 GB that rarely uses even 1/4th of that, yet it lags like crazy sometimes and it's almost impossible to know why. Extremely random. I know many people who started looking at Linux/Macs ever since 11 was released. We lost features that were available in Windows 10! Who does that?!
I just wish there was an alternative to Windows, that's kinda similar to Android, but not as much of a pin as Linux.
I hope this at least will push other vendors to release good arm devices that can run the more polished Linux distributions for longer periods. This is my take away here.
Oh, and by the way, Copilot is trash. No, it's not GPT, I don't know what it is, but it's a way lower-quality variant of GPT-4/o.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Most people who buy MacBook Airs are not power users and won’t see any real world benefit from a supposedly faster Windows machine.

Bur some might like the Surface’s form factor or OLED display.

I’m happy for the competition, though. And while I’m a Mac guy, I’m happy that Windows people are getting some better options.

You know, I don't think casual users are interested in switching. Mac users are happy with M-series, but Windows users now have an ARM option.
I don't really see Apple losing it's base to Snapdragon because you either prefer macOS or you prefer Windows.

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

Yeah, I tried many times throwing more hardware at Windows, but nope. You just can't fix stupid. I have an Asus laptop with 40 GB that rarely uses even 1/4th of that, yet it lags like crazy sometimes and it's almost impossible to know why. Extremely random. I know many people who started looking at Linux/Macs ever since 11 was released. We lost features that were available in Windows 10! Who does that?!
I just wish there was an alternative to Windows, that's kinda similar to Android, but not as much of a pin as Linux.
I hope this at least will push other vendors to release good arm devices that can run the more polished Linux distributions for longer periods. This is my take away here.
Oh, and by the way, Copilot is trash. No, it's not GPT, I don't know what it is, but it's a way lower-quality variant of GPT-4/o.

I think your experience isn't everyone's. I have Windows and Mac's though I prefer Windows. My Windows experience isn't the same as yours. As far as "lag" goes, there are certainly times with both macOS and Windows that the hardware seems unresponsive (beach ball in macOS?) or with Apple Silicon Mac's how launching some apps take 20+ bounces on the task bar before they actually launch? Outlook on Mac always launches much slower than Outlook on my Windows desktops or laptops.

With regards to AI, Siri is trash. Everything else is better.

 

[Velli]

Most people who buy MacBook Airs are not power users and won’t see any real world benefit from a supposedly faster Windows machine.

Bur some might like the Surface’s form factor or OLED display.

I’m happy for the competition, though. And while I’m a Mac guy, I’m happy that Windows people are getting some better options.

Don’t know where to look: Is it fanless? Apple gets way too little credit for Macbook Air being fanless. It is literally why I bought one.

 

[ThunderSkunk]

lol that Microsoft really thinks I’m buying Mac because the hardware.

Ha yeah. The OS & software is why I want to buy macs, while the hardware is why I’m back buying PCs again.

 

[Kingcoherent]

Haven't read the report, but going on what you say, then the first generation Snapdragon is better than Apple's first generation M-series, and close to Apple's 3rd generation? Doesn't sound like a bad thing.

This isn’t the first gen snapdragon though. As before it runs hotter than Apple silicon.

But it’s the first that’s competitive, which is a very good thing.

The NPU is where it’s a lot better. this is probably why the m4 hit the iPad so early. Would be interesting to see how the NPU race evolves from here.

 

[imdropbear]

100 percent. In fact they’re calling it the Apple Silicon brain drain.

“Nuvia was acquired by Qualcomm in 2021. Late last year, The Information cited Nuvia as one reason for a “brain drain” in the Apple silicon engineering group. “

Apple quietly drops lawsuit against former Apple Silicon exec who left company to run his own chip start-up

Apple has quietly withdrawn its lawsuit against former executive Gerard Williams III in a filing posted on Friday (via Bloomberg)....

9to5mac.com

Honestly, yes and no.

The big jump came from switching to a completely new and much more efficient CPU architecture.

Everything after it basically came from simply more transistors, more cores or due to TSMC‘s advances in manufacturing (3nm vs 5nm).

But that’s not due to Apple getting lazy. There simply isn‘t that much to be gained anymore. We’re hitting physical limits here.

It was obvious from the start that the competition would catch up eventually once they jump on the same horse. There is only so much Apple can do to make their chips better, their designs are already very well optimized.

 

[Alexndar]

I think your experience isn't everyone's. I have Windows and Mac's though I prefer Windows. My Windows experience isn't the same as yours. As far as "lag" goes, there are certainly times with both macOS and Windows that the hardware seems unresponsive (beach ball in macOS?) or with Apple Silicon Mac's how launching some apps take 20+ bounces on the task bar before they actually launch? Outlook on Mac always launches much slower than Outlook on my Windows desktops or laptops.

With regards to AI, Siri is trash. Everything else is better.

For me, Win 10 was SO MUCH better. I feel like just when most of its issues were ironed out, MS went ahead and decided it was time to copy Apple's design language in a new system.
I know Macs lag too yes, my wife has one, but it's way less frequent than me on a theoretically much more powerful machine.

 

[Salty Pirate]

What Microsoft does not get is there is an entire class of user that really values performance per watt.

Machines with modern processors are plenty fast. What is important is the overall package, a long lasting battery, a good large screen, and a cool, fanless experience.

Then there is this garbage.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792680674060832829

 

[brofkand]

That’s easy, too. As long as you decrease the security of it by not requiring a 3D scan, just an image that can be tricked by a photograph, then using an 1080p camera for facial recognition is also possible. Microsoft is just showing what things look like with different corners are cut (removing screen, removing 3D FaceID).

You obviously have never used Windows Hello. It may or may not be as secure as Face ID - I don't know the specifics. But it is more sophisticated than you're letting on. It can't be fooled with a photograph.

Still, Apple's giant notch is for just a webcam - nothing else. Lazy engineering.

 

[turbineseaplane]

What Microsoft does not get is there is an entire class of user that really values performance per watt.

Machines with modern processors are plenty fast. What is important is the overall package, a long lasting battery, a good large screen, and a cool, fanless experience.

Then there is this garbage.

https://twitter.com/x/status/1792680674060832829

Did you read the article summary on page one?

These are every bit as competitive as they need to be with Apple offerings
Battery is fine - screens are better (than MBA)

What are they missing?

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

What Microsoft does not get is there is an entire class of user that really values performance per watt.

Machines with modern processors are plenty fast. What is important is the overall package, a long lasting battery, a good large screen, and a cool, fanless experience.

Fanless is not a priority for me. The MacBook Pro's have fans that rarely ever come on. Only when really pushing the system for a long time do the fans come on, and even then you can barely hear them. Fans allow a high performance machine to perform with it's full potential. Without fans in those instances, you're CPU or GPU will just throttle. Everything gets hot if pushed hard enough.

I can say with some surety that for what most people do on a MBA, my Windows laptops with fans make no noise when doing the same things.

 

[Salty Pirate]

Did you read the article summary on page one?

These are every bit as competitive as they need to be with Apple offerings
Battery is fine - screens are better (than MBA)

What are they missing?

I guess I do not believe them.

Burned too many times.


Oh, and fanless just means quiet.

 

[avro707]

Indeed Apple has enough fanboys that it doesn't feel threatened and offer dual boot or virtualized MacOS on iPad. Just look at all the fanboy comments here.

Eventually fortunes will change and Apple will have to adapt quickly. That's why I don't use my iPad too often, I have an iPhone that does most of the same duties and a MacBook Air. So it's not all that useful.

An iPad with a keyboard and mouse and MacOS (imagine it with touch capabilities) would probably go close to wiping out the lower levels of the MacBooks.

Which of course Apple would never allow to happen.

 

[turbineseaplane]

Fanless is not a priority for me. The MacBook Pro's have fans that rarely ever come on. Only when really pushing the system for a long time do the fans come on, and even then you can barely hear them. Fans allow a high performance machine to perform with it's full potential. Without fans in those instances, you're CPU or GPU will just throttle. Everything gets hot if pushed hard enough.

Same

Fans have become so quiet that I'd rather have one so I'm not getting subjected to throttling

 

[DEMinSoCAL]

I guess I do not believe them.

Burned too many times.


Oh, and fanless just means quiet.

Fanless means silent. Laptops with fans can be quiet.

 

[Onelifenofear]

You forgot that iPads are toys which even can't eject a USB drive or save file on desktop while Surface and WOA is real computer with real computing system.

You forgot that I made a ton load of cash with my "toy" in the last few years fella, using FCP Video editing for Commercials, Making 3D models using Forger, It's got all the productivity products needed. I don't have a laptop anymore. I do have a Mac Pro for Heavy work, but 70% of my work is on the tablet now.

Why do you need to "Eject a USB drive". Why do you need to save a file to the desktop? It's only a folder.

It's not my fault you have a locked in Computer process metaphor in your head. Some of us can adapt.

WOA has not remotely been a proper OS. Barely anything worked on it. This new version does have possibilities with Creative Cloud coming to it. Shame the Pen still appears to be abysmal.

 

[Northgrove]

*Faster at heating up.

That's often the question with Windows but if the battery numbers are in the right ballpark, it doesn't sound like it'll heat up much because battery life is directly correlated to excess heat. You won't have good battery life if it's running hot.

I also need to remind that this is Windows for ARM which may be able to avoid much cruft that has built up over the years with decades of Intel backwards compatibility.

 

[KPOM]

In my experience people first choose the operating system for their preference and the software they need and then look at suitable computers. Or how many people are like "just gimme a nice machine, who cares what it's running"?

While it's been years since Apple had a formal "Switchers" campaign, they do tout that iPhone and iPad sales help drive Mac sales. Since M1, the MacBook Air has had a competitive advantage of being fast and quiet. Clearly Microsoft was targeting the same design marks.

 

[KPOM]

It's not my fault you have a locked in Computer process metaphor in your head. Some of us can adapt.

WOA has not remotely been a proper OS. Barely anything worked on it. This new version does have possibilities with Creative Cloud coming to it. Shame the Pen still appears to be abysmal.

Windows on ARM has gotten a lot better recently. And with Prism they now have a translation layer they claim is as efficient as Rosetta 2. But the reality is that Microsoft will want more developers to write ARM code now. Unlike Apple they can't just drop support for 32-bit x86 apps, but they can and will make it easier to develop universal binaries.

 

[Frantisekj]

well, competition is a good thing, but the "average" customer doesn't care about cinebencz benchmarks.
More interesting, they either sell online, or like at Best Buy right next to any x86 Windows computer, so that will be their main "competition"... and it's running WinARM, so no x86 compatibility, which might not matter to non-enterprise users

There are few points.
Even Apple looks like late in AI they have not presented their achievements yet. So wee need some time to judge.

On HW side, there is important to realize that MS is bringing new platform, that is starting nearly from scratch. No one has laptop to use, there is limited number of native apps and there can be numerous bugs that needs to be fine tuned.

No idea how intel machiness be able to use server based AI features if those are at all planned for them as well.

Apple on other side has milions of Apple silicon based macs, ipads and phones that will be able to use at lease some on AI features or the most just wont be that fast. So Apple has some room to breathe and show what they cooked up. If both MS and Apple use OpenAI then there wont be big difference mainly in implementation and integration.

I like what MS presents and hope Apple will offer similar functionality. We should not forget Apple work that can be utilized on 8GB macbooks as well I guess

Apple Develops Breakthrough Method for Running LLMs on iPhones

Apple GPT in your pocket? It could be a reality sooner than you think. Apple AI researchers say they have made a key breakthrough in deploying large...

www.macrumors.com

 

[Delgibbons]

Honestly, yes and no.

The big jump came from switching to a completely new and much more efficient CPU architecture.

Everything after it basically came from simply more transistors, more cores or due to TSMC‘s advances in manufacturing (3nm vs 5nm).

But that’s not due to Apple getting lazy. There simply isn‘t that much to be gained anymore. We’re hitting physical limits here.

It was obvious from the start that the competition would catch up eventually once they jump on the same horse. There is only so much Apple can do to make their chips better, their designs are already very well optimized.

That as well, course!

 

[Onelifenofear]

Windows on ARM has gotten a lot better recently. And with Prism they now have a translation layer they claim is as efficient as Rosetta 2. But the reality is that Microsoft will want more developers to write ARM code now. Unlike Apple they can't just drop support for 32-bit x86 apps, but they can and will make it easier to develop universal binaries.

Sure... Actually does Windows on arm still have the cluster fudge that is the windows Registry? And all the antiquated DLLs? I am guessing not finally?