Microsoft Shares Holiday Ad Promoting Surface Go Over Apple's iPad: 'Big Dreams Need a Real Computer'

[I7guy]

Very much agree, equally people keep buying. Personally I dumped Apple for any professional use as it's hardware is mostly inadequate and or problematic, I see little value in what Apple offers currently.

I've frequently stated that I've never seen so many switch away from Apple, equally all engineers, designers etc. Apple is fast on the track to being little more than a fashion brand where reliability, performance & stability all play second fiddle to looking pretty.

Apple has only one direction now as markets plateau and that is do exactly what it's doing increasing margin, diminishing value. For many professionals the Mac is dead in the water, nor are they likely to come flocking back even if Apple gets it's collective finger out it's ass, as it's hard earned reputation is getting burned up quickly...

New Air is a joke, non Touch Bar MBP is a far better proposition in many respects at a $100 more. Apple is simply trading on the Air's name and offering a sup par underperforming product for it's own greedy motivations i.e. the usual cash grab we've come to expect...

Q-6

Mac seems to be a niche product these days. No doubt you can get a cheap windows laptop for your "professional" use. If I had to do cad drawings, illustrations, proof long documents etc, probably would use windows. But everybody's professional workflow is different and people tend to use their own workflows as proformas as to what apple should be doing on it's computing platform...from what I've seen.

I need windows for my professional life, but when it comes time to catch up on stuff, that surface pro gets put in the corner and out comes the ipad. Sure, I can't run full blown Word, but I don't care.

 

[317342]

Looking at what sells - Apple's approach is working better. Not everyone wants to or needs to run old legacy apps on an OS stuck in the 90's. Windows will always have it's place, but unfortunately for Microsoft, the younger generation prefers iPad's to Surface laptops. An okay laptop combined with a crappy tablet isn't going to change that.

I teach at a college, it is exceedingly rare to see WinTel notebooks anymore.

If I were to approximate...
MacBooks > iPad/iPad Pro > Chromebook > PC laptop (usually gamer ROG laptops.). I think I've seen maybe one (1) Surface-anything in the last year.

 

[CarlJ]

Virtually every single one of the in depth reviews, both online, and in the many tech podcasts said over and over again the exact same thing:

"The hardware of the latest iPad's is totally stunning. The power, and overall quality of the device is amazing in every way. However THE BIGGEST problem, and it's so obvious, even more now is iOS. It's just ridiculous, and so limiting to have a blown up phone OS on such an amazing and powerfully device as the current iPads.

Interesting thought, we've been hearing both this, and the recurring idea that Apple will make ARM-based Macs... What if the iPad Pro is that. What if, instead of (possibly eventually in addition to) making a Mac laptop with an ARM processor... what if they put a tweaked ARM-macOS on the iPad. Maybe with an onscreen keyboard and some sort of virtual trackpad (for very fine movements, vs. doing large/coarse movements by simply tapping directly on the thing in question), for limited use, and for extended use you get a keyboard-with-trackpad. The performance of the iPad Pro's hardware is up to the job, and you can get them with laptop-sized flash storage now. Dual booting would be tricky (or maybe impossible), but an iPad Pro with a keyboard could make an interesting little macOS device. And with the new Marzipan framework they're testing out, they could bring any missing core iOS apps over to the ARM-macOS side, so you wouldn't have a need to dual-boot (unless you really want to run the iOS version of some app that doesn't have a Mac version). But the point is, the hardware could be something they've already released (you gotta think they've got the ARM version of macOS running on an iPad Pro in a lab somewhere, even if it'll never see the light of day).

Probably won't happen. Apple probably wants to drag the iPad Pro into a brave new future without macOS on it (leaving that for proper Macs), but it could be interesting.

 

[Altis]

I teach at a college, it is exceedingly rare to see WinTel notebooks anymore.

If I were to approximate...
MacBooks > iPad/iPad Pro > Chromebook > PC laptop (usually gamer ROG laptops.). I think I've seen maybe one (1) Surface-anything in the last year.

Interesting... the opposite from what I see. I've only seen a handful of iPads on campus at all in the past 2 years. Surface is still not common but certainly more than iPads.

It seems the arts/social studies have Macs (most are Airs) while everyone else mostly has PC laptops... a surprising number of very generic-looking ones that aren't flagships in any way. It seems few students are interested in paying MacBook Pro prices to do school work.

 

[CarlJ]

I don’t think many 10 year olds want a Surface tablet or even know what the hell it is.

Microsoft is really hoping their target audience for this ad - grandparents/uncles/aunts - don't know that.

 

[iPad-Erotica]

iPads are certainly supervisor for watching porn.

 

[Altis]

Too bad W10 is still an unreliable disaster.

I'm not so sure. My current Windows build (3 years old now) hasn't missed a beat. I've had to use it to rescue my MacBook Pro on more than one occasion... most recently when the "upgrade" to High Sierra converted the drive to APFS before being able to read/write in APFS.

 

[CarlJ]

Seriously? Does using an actual computer flag you as some kind of deviant/terrorist these days?

No. But the mods here have a pretty good idea, based on painful past experience, what kinds of articles set off flame wars.

 

[Mainsail]

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its shameful they kept the old MacBook Air for that price. It’s ancient technology now and parts are very cheap.

Pure greed the prices of the new MacBook Air and Pro’s. Certainly no match for the new Dell’s and HP’s which saw their unit sales grow significantly lately. Anyone wonder why?

I don't really understand this notion of "pure greed". On one hand, you seem to acknowledge that customers have legitimate options to buying from Apple, but somehow you are insinuating that Apple is insulated from market forces and behaves out of irrational greed. That makes no sense. Like all companies, Apple pursues profit maximization, which you can call greed.....but is just basic economics of supply and demand.. So, if Apple overprices a products to the detriment of sales volume, there is a point where it can hurt their bottom-line, and they need to make an adjustment to their pricing or product strategy. Unless you have proprietary information, it would be almost impossible to judge if Apple is currently implementing the wrong pricing strategy for their new products. I am not saying they might not need to change their strategy at some point in the future. But, at this time, Apple clearly believes they are pursuing the right profit maximizing pricing strategy.

Also, I think some people underestimate the total value of the user experience that Apple is offering. Software and hardware made to work together with complementary devices under one ecosystem. The product is more than just a set of specs. It's the delivery mechanism for a user experience. That is what many people value. I would happily pay a couple of hundred extra bucks for a laptop that will last a long time and deliver a great user experience. My current 2014 MBA is a case in point, and I suspect it will give me a few more years of good service. Not everyone sees it that way. For those folks, there are other options....which is great.

 

[mi7chy]

I teach at a college, it is exceedingly rare to see WinTel notebooks anymore.

If I were to approximate...
MacBooks > iPad/iPad Pro > Chromebook > PC laptop (usually gamer ROG laptops.). I think I've seen maybe one (1) Surface-anything in the last year.

What level? I'm near a university and even see girls with Surface devices. The rest are Macbooks or mostly Windows devices but rarely iPads since they don't have a desktop browser to access online courses and don't run professional/engineering software.

 

[ani4ani]

iPad Pro is a supercomputer in comparison to the woefully underpowered Surface Go.

It wouldn’t be if it had a real OS installed on it and had to do something productive with it.

 

[317342]

Interesting... the opposite from what I see. I've only seen a handful of iPads on campus at all in the past 2 years. Surface is still not common but certainly more than iPads.

It seems the arts/social studies have Macs (most are Airs) while everyone else mostly has PC laptops... a surprising number of very generic-looking ones that aren't flagships in any way. It seems few students are interested in paying MacBook Pro prices to do school work.

Sure but 1st year students (i.e., freshmen) are almost universally on Chromebooks now as it's what their parents bought them while they were in high school, and they try to keep it through college. --it's fine for most things but not 100%.

Usually by their sophomore year or after, they transition away to something else; if they have an iPhone, a Mac or iPad will soon follow, especially after the holidays.

 

[KPOM]

False !!! The Go ships with "Windows Home in S mode", not "Windows S", and the "S mode" can be turned off quickly, easily, and at no charge. With the currently shipping machines, you do need to update the Windows Store app first, but that is simple and part of the usual updates you need to do with any new machine. This need to update the Store will likely vanish when the devices ship with Win10 1809 instead of the 1803 with which the current sample ship.

Fair enough, but it still has an underpowered processor for a full-blown OS. Mostly I see Surfaces used as laptops. That’s a double-edged sword. Full blown Outlook is overkill for a tablet, for example.

 

[Altis]

Sure but 1st year students (i.e., freshmen) are almost universally on Chromebooks now as it's what their parents bought them while they were in high school, and they try to keep it through college. --it's fine for most things but not 100%.

Usually by their sophomore year or after, they transition away to something else; if they have an iPhone, a Mac or iPad will soon follow, especially after the holidays.

Could be a difference in locale. iPhones are very popular with students but Macs are not anymore, except in the social/arts programs. iPads are effectively non-existent at school, which is unsurprising considering how cumbersome it is to do school work on them.

I don't think I've seen a single Chromebook on campus yet, full stop. Granted, I don't think they get them in high school here.

 

[Seoras]

Is photoshop being ported to the Surface?

 

[AndyMacAndMic]

Is photoshop being ported to the Surface?

Why should it be ported? It runs natively on a Surface.

 

[Taipan]

Haha, I find it hilarious that their clips haven‘t evolved since that abysmal Songsmith clip years ago.

 

[Glockworkorange]

Apple v. Microsoft was the original political discussion on this board, before Apple got a CEO that felt he was the voice of reason in public policy.

That was like a decade ago. Are people still having that fight or was this just for old time’s sake?

 

[Taipan]

Too bad that is completely untrue. If your W10 computer is an unreliable disaster, it's all on you. You either bought a piece of crap computer to begin with, or you downloading too many "free" things from the internet.

The truth is, W10 is one of the best, most reliable versions of Windows 10. But, feel free to post links to mainstream IT sites who say W10 is a disaster. I'd be interested in what I must be doing right for my clients who have completely a trouble-free W10 experience. As a matter of fact, one client that is mixed Mac and Windows, the Mac users have far more issues than the Windows users. Far more.

I can‘t say too much about stability when it‘s running, but the recent success rate with feature updates is pretty disastrous. And the fact that you still have to deal with two separate sets of settings after several years is ridiculous. To me it‘s an incoherent mess.

 

[dborod]

I'm old enough to remember all ads and magazine articles and such, taunting and belittling the Mac for not being a 'real' computer since it didn't have a command prompt.

No one knows what the future holds, but over the long term I wouldn't bet against Apple.

 

[brofkand]

That was like a decade ago. Are people still having that fight or was this just for old time’s sake?

No, just for old time's sake to explain why this post was likely put in the Political forum. I think the Microsoft v. Apple debate is over, results uncertain depending upon who you ask.
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I can‘t say too much about stability when it‘s running, but the recent success rate with feature updates is pretty disastrous. And the fact that you still have to deal with two separate sets of settings after several years is ridiculous. To me it‘s an incoherent mess.

Yeah the settings app vs. the control panel is nuts. But at this point most settings have been moved over to Settings. Microsoft holds backward compatibility as a sacred cow (sometimes an albatross) so it took time.

Windows 10 has no more bugs than High Sierra. I remember when High Sierra enabled my root account with no password. And Microsoft's commitment to backward compatibility means I have to deal with far fewer broken apps or device drivers after an update, unlike macOS. But it leads to things like the schizophrenic Control Panel/Settings debacle. Give and take.

 

[Soccertess]

The "desktop" computer is gradually being moved aside (by the general public) and replaced by their phones, it looks like a long slow downhill ride for Microsoft and PC's in general, but they've got to keep trying. Just saw Microsoft is going to abandon their own browser foundation in Edge and use Chromium (Blink) as a base.

No, windows is still king in the productivity world. iOS is too limited. OSX is great, and reins supreme in my eyes Hopefully Tim won't screw that up

 

[KPOM]

Traded in my iPad for a Surface Pro a couple months ago due to productivitey issues. Things as simple as going through emails for my business, which requires moving into folders, attaching multiple documents, etc, is far easier on a full OS. Even drafting documents is much better. I loved my iPad for reading, watching TV/movies, and other consumption, but for work it just got to the point where I needed a full device.

Apple needs to finally come to the conclusion that it is time to have two OSs on the iPad. iOS can be primary, but with these new iPad Pros matching Macbook Pro benchmarks, there is no reason whatsoever you cannot dual boot into Mac OS, using a keyboard and mouse. The day that happens I will sell my Surface Pro and buy the iPad again.

That would require porting MacOS to ARM and rewriting apps or writing an emulation layer. That would kill battery life and performance. Anandtech publishes its review of the iPad Pro today. This gets better battery life than a Surface Pro with a battery about half the size. That’s the benefit of running a mobile OS.

Plus, how would your dual boot scenario work? I don’t want Boot Camp for iPad and certainly don’t want iOS running on top of macOS. The Surface line is really just a notebook sold in pieces. It isn’t really a tablet.

 

[Marx55]

Apple should make a true Mac tablet with Intel inside. iOS is a toy. macOS is a computer.

 

[rjohnstone]

What level? I'm near a university and even see girls with Surface devices. The rest are Macbooks or mostly Windows devices but rarely iPads since they don't have a desktop browser to access online courses and don't run professional/engineering software.

That’s all my daughter uses at school and home is her Surface Pro 4.
I offered her a MacBook Air, but no touch or pen support. The iPad can’t run full Photoshop, so that ended any interest in the device.