Microsoft Shares Holiday Ad Promoting Surface Go Over Apple's iPad: 'Big Dreams Need a Real Computer'

[H2SO4]

Because desktops suck. That’s why most people use their phi


I can. I just did it to your text by holding my finger on it and sliding. (How about the limitation where you can't precisely select a string of text?) the oasted it for you. Do you even own an Apple device. If so, You should know that.

Desktops suck, not sure about that but entitled to your opinion. I'd suggest that as always convenience is a large factor. People use their phones because they are small and portable. What they often then do is half a job on their portable device and finish or let others finish the work for them elsewhere.
[doublepost=1543975443][/doublepost]

This is the inconvenient truth for Apple right now. Windows is no longer that big hunk of junk that is barely good enough to pass. Microsoft did the right thing and invested major capital over-hauling & dragging windows into the future with W10. In fact W7 was already halfway there.

I use windows computers all day every day at work, then I come home to my Mac OS environment & frankly sometimes I really question why I bother. It would be one thing if Macs had become more affordable over the years, but quite the opposite, seems Apple is milking it harder than ever. I am going to have to make some really tough decisions when my 2011 mini gets too outdated or fails. -Side note I really hate that Apple is not allowing my computer to run the latest MacOS, yeah yeah I know "but but Metal graphics support!", but they could have worked out a legacy system, this really puts a bad taste in my mouth.

I'd suggest, I don't really know of course, that your Mac OS environment is simply more pleasurable to use. I know mine is.
I run Win10 in virtualisation but use the Mac side of things primarily and then transfer files between environments when I need to. With the Mac though, (for me at least), it's getting to the point where I'm questioning if the premium is worth it. I agree that Apple is milking it but I only have myself to blame as I bought their hardware, me doing that is telling them that they have things right.

 

[KPOM]

And if you are transferring files on a thumb drive, wouldn’t that mean there is a computer where you are to transfer the files to. Why not use that computer. And honestly if something happens to your keyring or the drive breaks off from continuous wear and tear. Your files are gone. If you encrypted them and placed them online they would be safer. In fact you could just iMessage them to yourself and they would be encrypted and accessible on all your devices you could also save them to notes and lock it with a long password and Touch ID. It would also be available on all your devices.

That’s why more things are moving to the cloud. If done right, it’s safer and more secure than having files physically on devices.

If I’m Apple, I’m probably more worried about ChromeBooks than I am about the Surface.

 

[NT1440]

I’ve always found in marketing if your slogan is a direct reference to a competitors slogan, you kind of conceded the fight before getting in the ring.

 

[mi7chy]

That’s why more things are moving to the cloud. If done right, it’s safer and more secure than having files physically on devices.

A lot of celebrities will disagree with you after iCloud leaked their private nude pictures all over the internet and they still can't remove them to this day. On the other hand, exposure is much less with an encrypted USB stick.

 

[ipponrg]

That’s why more things are moving to the cloud. If done right, it’s safer and more secure than having files physically on devices.

As someone that develops for the cloud, I am glad you believe that. In all honesty though, the cloud will not be safer or more secure than an encrypted device. Security is also not the reason why things have moved into the cloud.

 

[KPOM]

As someone that develops for the cloud, I am glad you believe that. In all honesty though, the cloud will not be safer or more secure than an encrypted device. Security is also not the reason why things have moved into the cloud.

An encrypted cloud is safer than an encrypted thumb drive. My computer won’t even connect to a thumb drive because my company views them as unsafe.
[doublepost=1543978237][/doublepost]

A lot of celebrities will disagree with you after iCloud leaked their private nude pictures all over the internet and they still can't remove them to this day. On the other hand, exposure is much less with an encrypted USB stick.

That’s why my company disables access to thumb drives but hosts a cloud site. Note I said “if done right.” No big company would trust iCloud (which is a consumer service) but Microsoft is the world’s most valuable company because of Azure, and Amazon isn’t far behind because of AWS.

 

[rp2011]

I thought most schools use Chromebooks now. Anyway, the iPad will get full Photoshop next year.
[doublepost=1543967139][/doublepost]
Why would they do that? It would require a fan, or the use of the slower Core Y processors in the MacBook. I see Apple unifying around ARM and a next-gen OS to replace both iOS on the iPad and macOS rather than creating a “Mac Surface.”
[doublepost=1543967535][/doublepost]
It’s mostly inertia. IT people stick with what they are used to. That said, more and more services are moving to the cloud, and companies are getting more mobile friendly. I can do about 90% of what I need to do for work on an iPad. Apparently my firm piloted the Surface but concluded that “regular” notebooks were better for the tasks where we need a full-blown OS.
[doublepost=1543967960][/doublepost]
They likely will add file management, but trackpad and mouse support seems counterproductive. Mobile uses a different design philosophy. Windows 10 still feels like a desktop OS to which touch was added, and not necessarily with a good end result (lots of programs like Adobe PDF are becoming much harder to use as desktop apps because of the need to support touch). iOS was a touch OS from the very beginning. Adding mouse support would detract from the tablet experience. It is meant to be a simpler interface.

Not allowing a trackpad and mouse on the iPad today is not about “design philosophy” it’s just plain stupidity and suicide. I have no doubt iOS 13 will finally allow it. Apple doesn’t have its head that far up its ass.

 

[jeremiah256]

No, it's not a real computer. If you think it is then so is my microwave oven.
With a device that can run a full Windows OS, you're going to be able to play games on it. Some will require you to reduce the quality settings or have certain minimum GPU or processor performance requirements met and only in those senses is it not a gaming 'rig'. An iDevice will fall flat on its face here.

The definition of a computer is not based on Windows as an operating system.

A sysadmin may only need a device that provides access to a terminal and a browser (ChromeBook). A one person photography business may be happy with Affinity Photo as their main app (iPad). An on-the-go executive may only need a productivity suite, not to build documents and reports, but primarily to review and edit them (Surface Go). And a consultant's main 'computer' might be met by almost any smartphone on the market.

 

[dilbert99]

They're not wrong, sometimes you do need a "real computer". I cannot imagine trying to do my work (software development) on an iPad, that would be real torture.

EDIT:// I'm getting a little bit of shade for this comment so I want to clarify a few things. I like the iPad, I think it's a great product for tasks well suited to its form factor.

You are correct and Apple fans will always attack people who say the iPad is not a proper computer.
Like you say it all comes down to context.

If you only buy a single computer and you need to edit video, write code, edit spreadsheets all day long, use photoshop all day long, i.e. do work on your computer - buy a desktop or laptop.

If you only buy a single computer and you need a web-browser, you-tube, the occasional app, pass the time gaming and so on, buy an iPad.

If you are an artist and want to do computer drawings, then you should definitely buy an iPad even if it is your only computer.

Perhaps a better term that "real computer" might be an "efficient workflow computer" but that doesn't roll of the tongue as well as a "real computer" so those who do work will continue to call the iPad as not a real computer.
[doublepost=1543980074][/doublepost]

The definition of a computer is not based on Windows as an operating system.

A sysadmin may only need a device that provides access to a terminal and a browser (ChromeBook). A one person photography business may be happy with Affinity Photo as their main app (iPad). An on-the-go executive may only need a productivity suite, not to build documents and reports, but primarily to review and edit them (Surface Go). And a consultant's main 'computer' might be met by almost any smartphone on the market.

Those who need an efficient workflow will disagree that an iPad meets their needs as a production device (*excluding Artists), that is why they don't call the iPad a real computer, it is a companion computer.

 

[I7guy]

A lot of celebrities will disagree with you after iCloud leaked their private nude pictures all over the internet and they still can't remove them to this day. On the other hand, exposure is much less with an encrypted USB stick.

Please stop spreading FUD. This "leak" was a result of phishing not icloud "rolling over".

 

[0947347]

No, it's not a real computer. If you think it is then so is my microwave oven.
With a device that can run a full Windows OS, you're going to be able to play games on it. Some will require you to reduce the quality settings or have certain minimum GPU or processor performance requirements met and only in those senses is it not a gaming 'rig'. An iDevice will fall flat on its face here.

What? Haha

 

[ipponrg]

An encrypted cloud is safer than an encrypted thumb drive. My computer won’t even connect to a thumb drive because my company views them as unsafe.

These are compelling arguments. Because your company does it, ergo it must be safer.

 

[I7guy]

These are compelling arguments. Because your company does it, ergo it must be safer.

This is a standard security practice where knowledge workers have access to PII and confidential information. Mom and pop shops is a different story.

 

[rjohnstone]

I thought most schools use Chromebooks now. Anyway, the iPad will get full Photoshop next year.

K-8 use Chromebooks. Her High School is a BYOD affair.
They use Google Classroom, and that can run on pretty much any device.

I'll let her decide if the iPad version of PS meets her needs. She has been drawing since she could write and uses every medium available to her.
She just happens to love the Surface Pro. She wants the Surface Pro 6. Actually she wants the Surface Studio 2 desktop, but she currently has no desire for an iPad.
[doublepost=1543985192][/doublepost]

The iPad can run Affinity Photo now, which with pen support is easily equal to and compatible with desktop Photoshop, is far less expensive, and is a joy to use with the pen (an experience hard to duplicate on a desktop, since you are looking right at the screen as you are editing on it).

Money is not the issue, Photoshop is what she prefers when she draws and we have a multi device Adobe account anyway. My wife uses PS and LightRoom for her job. My daughter will use Sketchbook for quick drafts from time to time, which is free, but PS is her tool of choice.
I've seen her kick out some amazing drawings in Sketchbook that rival some of her PS work.

 

[Agent2015]

I'm not so sure. My current Windows build (3 years old now) hasn't missed a beat. I've had to use it to rescue my MacBook Pro on more than one occasion... most recently when the "upgrade" to High Sierra converted the drive to APFS before being able to read/write in APFS.

I certainly can't say that Win 10 hasn't missed more than at least one beat on several of my Win 10 devices. The biannual Win 10 updates have been a nerve wracking experience. On more than one occasion resulting in the infamous BSOD experience. Thank goodness for that "wonderful" command line-like Win 10 option to revert to a previous state by invoking F6...or is it F8...or was it F2? Oh never mind just cross your fingers that the update process performed a clean backup before starting that ill-fated update. My usual approach these days with Win 10 updates is to hold off until absolutely certain that the update is stable and having been patched by Microsoft since it was released. In most cases I hold off on a Win 10 update for 30 or 60 days and sometimes as long as 90 days (remember the Meltdown and Spectre patches earlier this year? Now those were fun!) So I am glad that your 3 year old installation of Windows (10?) is stable. What I don't understand is how your Windows machine has rescued your MacBook Pro? Didn't realize that Windows could read an APFS formatted drive?

 

[KPOM]

Not allowing a trackpad and mouse on the iPad today is not about “design philosophy” it’s just plain stupidity and suicide. I have no doubt iOS 13 will finally allow it. Apple doesn’t have its head that far up its ass.

I don’t see an iPad supporting a mouse. iOS apps don’t have a cursor. Remember that it needs to work without a mouse. I do think they will make copy and paste easier, and add a more robust file system. But don’t expect iOS to turn into macOS.
[doublepost=1543985928][/doublepost]

These are compelling arguments. Because your company does it, ergo it must be safer.

My employer is a federal contractor and we do lots of business with banks. Yes, we take security very seriously.
[doublepost=1543986735][/doublepost]

No, it's not a real computer. If you think it is then so is my microwave oven.
With a device that can run a full Windows OS, you're going to be able to play games on it. Some will require you to reduce the quality settings or have certain minimum GPU or processor performance requirements met and only in those senses is it not a gaming 'rig'. An iDevice will fall flat on its face here.

Try to run Fortnite on a Surface Go. Then tell me it’s a “real computer.”

The iPad doesn’t do everything that a traditional notebook does. It doesn’t try. But here’s the deal. Not everyone needs to do everything a traditional notebook can do. Surface tries to, but, in the case of the Surface Go, does it with third rate hardware.
[doublepost=1543986923][/doublepost]

I don’t see an iPad supporting a mouse. iOS apps don’t have a cursor. Remember that it needs to work without a mouse. I do think they will make copy and paste easier, and add a more robust file system. But don’t expect iOS to turn into macOS.
[doublepost=1543985928][/doublepost]
My employer is a federal contractor and we do lots of business with banks. Yes, we take security very seriously.
[doublepost=1543986735][/doublepost]
Try to run Fortnite on a Surface Go. Then tell me it’s a “real computer.”

The iPad doesn’t do everything that a traditional notebook does. It doesn’t try. But here’s the deal. Not everyone needs to do everything a traditional notebook can do. Surface tries to, but, in the case of the Surface Go, does it with third rate hardware.

Don’t get me wrong. A Surface Go might be the right device for a lot of people. If it is for you, then go for it. I don’t begrudge that. But many of us here line our iPads and don’t want Apple to try to turn them into touchscreen Macs the way Microsoft has tried to make Surface a touchscreen notebook/tablet hybrid. That’s not the only viable model.

 

[Agent2015]

No, it's not a real computer. If you think it is then so is my microwave oven.
With a device that can run a full Windows OS, you're going to be able to play games on it. Some will require you to reduce the quality settings or have certain minimum GPU or processor performance requirements met and only in those senses is it not a gaming 'rig'. An iDevice will fall flat on its face here.

So the ability to play games is the measure of a "real" computer? Have you ever used an iDevice to play games? Oh wait you only use real computers so you wouldn't know... It's amazing how quickly Windows fanboys flood Apple oriented forums attesting to the wonders of all things Microsoft. It reminds me of all the gloom and doom rumors of the impending demise of Apple ever since what the year 2000? Here it is 2018 and Microsoft has evolved into predominantly a services operation selling us subscriptions to things like Office 365 and the attendant back end services in the cloud. In reality the Surface is more of a hobby for Microsoft. Hopefully it won't be its next Zune or Nokia phone.

 

[KPOM]

So the ability to play games is the measure of a "real" computer? Have you ever used an iDevice to play games? Oh wait you only use real computers so you wouldn't know... It's amazing how quickly Windows fanboys flood Apple oriented forums attesting to the wonders of all things Microsoft. It reminds me of all the gloom and doom rumors of the impending demise of Apple ever since what the year 2000? Here it is 2018 and Microsoft has evolved into predominantly a services operation selling us subscriptions to things like Office 365 and the attendant back end services in the cloud. In reality the Surface is more of a hobby for Microsoft. Hopefully it won't be its next Zune or Nokia phone.

Exactly. Microsoft knows Windows is stagnant. That’s why it’s biggest focus is Azure, which is OS-agnostic.

 

[H2SO4]

I don’t see an iPad supporting a mouse. iOS apps don’t have a cursor. Remember that it needs to work without a mouse. I do think they will make copy and paste easier, and add a more robust file system. But don’t expect iOS to turn into macOS.
[doublepost=1543985928][/doublepost]
My employer is a federal contractor and we do lots of business with banks. Yes, we take security very seriously.
[doublepost=1543986735][/doublepost]
Try to run Fortnite on a Surface Go. Then tell me it’s a “real computer.”

The iPad doesn’t do everything that a traditional notebook does. It doesn’t try. But here’s the deal. Not everyone needs to do everything a traditional notebook can do. Surface tries to, but, in the case of the Surface Go, does it with third rate hardware.
[doublepost=1543986923][/doublepost]
Don’t get me wrong. A Surface Go might be the right device for a lot of people. If it is for you, then go for it. I don’t begrudge that. But many of us here line our iPads and don’t want Apple to try to turn them into touchscreen Macs the way Microsoft has tried to make Surface a touchscreen notebook/tablet hybrid. That’s not the only viable model.

Apple are trying to change the definition of what people accept to be a ‘computer’. It’s not working.
My TV has a built in browser and some can use a keyboard and mouse. By this metric you could probably remote in and work. There, you own a computer.
Again, different specs will run different games, but a computer in the most accepted sense and iPad is not.

Apples marketing machine is running flat chat at the moment, they’ve just passed your house and screamed, “SOLD!!”
[doublepost=1543987757][/doublepost]

So the ability to play games is the measure of a "real" computer? Have you ever used an iDevice to play games? Oh wait you only use real computers so you wouldn't know... It's amazing how quickly Windows fanboys flood Apple oriented forums attesting to the wonders of all things Microsoft. It reminds me of all the gloom and doom rumors of the impending demise of Apple ever since what the year 2000? Here it is 2018 and Microsoft has evolved into predominantly a services operation selling us subscriptions to things like Office 365 and the attendant back end services in the cloud. In reality the Surface is more of a hobby for Microsoft. Hopefully it won't be its next Zune or Nokia phone.

Not sure if you’re suggesting I’m a Windows fanboy or not.
Typing this on an iPhone X, MacBook Pro in my laptop bag, Mac Pro at home.
I use both. Apple 90% of the time, (iOS and OSX), windows the rest. That doesn’t even touch the amount of stuff I’ve bought over the years for myself and family members and that which I’ve recommended.
Windows is a good product. So is OSX, so is iOS.
A ‘computer’ the iPad is not, (not quite yet). If you keep insisting it is then so is my cheap Casio wristwatch.

 

[KPOM]

Apple are trying to change the definition of what people accept to be a ‘computer’. It’s not working.
My TV has a built in browser and some can use a keyboard and mouse. By this metric you could probably remote in and work. There, you own a computer.
Again, different specs will run different games, but a computer in the most accepted sense and iPad is not.

Apples marketing machine is running flat chat at the moment, they’ve just passed your house and screamed, “SOLD!!”
[doublepost=1543987757][/doublepost]
Not sure if you’re suggesting I’m a Windows fanboy or not.
Typing this on an iPhone X, MacBook Pro in my laptop bag, Mac Pro at home.
I use both. Apple 90% of the time, (iOS and OSX), windows the rest. That doesn’t even touch the amount of stuff I’ve bought over the years for myself and family members and that which I’ve recommended.
Windows is a good product. So is OSX, so is iOS.
A ‘computer’ the iPad is not, (not quite yet). If you keep insisting it is then so is my cheap Casio wristwatch.

I disagree. If Quicken would abort its failed attempt to write a Mac version and concentrate on an iOS version I wouldn’t need a home computer other than my iPad. Office 365 is pretty good on the iPad. PowerPoint needs some work, but is still very usable. I’ve found that my employer’s intranet actually is more convenient on the iPad than my notebook. It’s touch-oriented.

 

[ipponrg]

[doublepost=1543985928][/doublepost]
My employer is a federal contractor and we do lots of business with banks. Yes, we take security very seriously.

Everyone who does cloud solutions takes security very seriously.

However, it does not mean that the cloud is safer than an encrypted drive. You're literally storing information out in the wild with some security walls. I am hypothesizing one of the reasons your employer does not allow physical drives is because they are contracted and not trusted by the banks. If I have sensitive data, I would also provide a sandbox for interactions with you as a federal contractor. Having worked in defense, I've experienced similar outcomes. The encrypted drives are handled by 1st party not 3rd party contractors. Sandboxes are always set up for contractors.

Aside from this, let's talk about the cloud vs local drives for businesses. With the cloud, you have to deal with man in the middle attacks, SSL, phishing, backdoor, social engineering, DDOS, and a myriad of other types of virtual attacks from anywhere across the world. These are a few examples of the complexities with securing cloud solutions. With an encrypted device on a trusted computer and if a thief wants to steal it from you, they just have to physically take it from you, but they still have to unencrypt it.

 

[dontwalkhand]

Exactly. Microsoft knows Windows is stagnant. That’s why it’s biggest focus is Azure, which is OS-agnostic.

Isn’t Azure itself running Windows server products on the back end though? Windows is still relevant somewhere though.

 

[ipponrg]

Office 365 is pretty good on the iPad. PowerPoint needs some work, but is still very usable. I’ve found that my employer’s intranet actually is more convenient on the iPad than my notebook. It’s touch-oriented.

No one that does serious Office work will work off an iPad. There's no skirting around this. If it works for you and your purposes, then that's great. But in other industries, this is not the norm. If your employer made your intranet "touch oriented", then yeah that conforms to tablet user experience paradigms.

 

[jeremiah256]

Those who need an efficient workflow will disagree that an iPad meets their needs as a production device (*excluding Artists), that is why they don't call the iPad a real computer, it is a companion computer.

Not sure who 'they' are you are referring to who are calling an iPad a companion computer. But even if I was to grant you that most professionals have both an iPad and a traditional computer (like myself), so what?

Before tablets were a thing, many professionals used both a laptop for mobility and light tasks and a desktop for the heavy lifting. Both were computers, they were just each used for what they excelled in. While on long train rides I’ve created, reviewed, and edited documents, set up project management workflows, moved around files and folders, archived documents, etc on my phone. I feel it’s my tertiary computer.

 

[ipponrg]

Isn’t Azure itself running Windows server products on the back end though? Windows is still relevant somewhere though.

According to Wikipedia, "Microsoft Azure uses a specialized operating system, called Microsoft Azure, to run its "fabric layer":[31] a cluster hosted at Microsoft's data centers that manages computing and storage resources of the computers and provisions the resources (or a subset of them) to applications running on top of Microsoft Azure. Microsoft Azure has been described as a "cloud layer" on top of a number of Windows Server systems, which use Windows Server 2008 and a customized version of Hyper-V, known as the Microsoft Azure Hypervisor to provide virtualization of services"