Microsoft Surface Estimated to Have Sold Only 1.7 Million Units Since Launch

[0098386]

I'm not saying death of computers. But I am thinking computers become more like a couch in that you don't buy another one until your current one gets shabby.

The folks that you suggest who need real computing power are a minute percentage of humanity. And even coders you use as an example are going to get to the point where their phones can compile code fast enough for their workflow.

I'm not saying that folks won't have PCs. But I am suggesting that PC replacements are heading toward a longer and longer replacement cycle. For the standard office worker the PC runs maybe four programs: Outlook, Word, Excel and a Browser. Desktops from five years ago still run all those programs fine. I've worked in offices where our laptops were leased and we got a new one every two years. I suspect that sort of corporate buy is a huge part of the PC market. But how long before corporate realizes that this really should be a three year cycle or even a four year cycle? And at the home of the average consumer, if they are not a gamer, what is the reason to upgrade? The last major improvement is still coming in PCs and that is "retina" level screens. Our older PCs can't run that. But once those screens can be handled, sales of PCs into the home is going to stagnate in a huge way.

Tablets on the other hand have gimped processors, only so so battery life and are too heavy. There are several cycles to go before a three-year old tablet doesn't look kind of weak compared to current offerings.

I used to wonder why non-creative offices wanted powerful machines. I think it's down to requiring the latest OS and software to streamline those machines, faster networks to transfer data that require new hardware, more storage for larger files, support apps (virus scanners etc) become more complex and protective. You can see how it naturally grows.

I can't foresee programmers moving to tablets, at least in their current form. They're too restrictive, storage is too small, workflow isn't as fast, multiple apps in the same display isn't possible yet. A game studio I recently worked with had incredibly talented coders running lightning fast on 3 screens. I've no idea how (or why) that would need to be scaled down. As you say it's a smaller market, it's more a point that not everything will work on tablets.

Ultimately I think it's the restrictive nature of tablets that could be their downfall.

 

[Brisso57]

MS seem doomed.

MS are being squeezed between Apple and Linux.
It is within Apple's power, right now, to kill them. All they need do is make the equivalent of MS Office - Pages, Numbers, etc - available FREE via the App Store. With MS in such current disarray, and with deeply unpopular products, the disappearance of the cash cow would be the final blow.

 

[whiteboytrash]

I used to wonder why non-creative offices wanted powerful machines. I think it's down to requiring the latest OS and software to streamline those machines, faster networks to transfer data that require new hardware, more storage for larger files, support apps (virus scanners etc) become more complex and protective. You can see how it naturally grows.

I can't foresee programmers moving to tablets, at least in their current form. They're too restrictive, storage is too small, workflow isn't as fast, multiple apps in the same display isn't possible yet. A game studio I recently worked with had incredibly talented coders running lightning fast on 3 screens. I've no idea how (or why) that would need to be scaled down. As you say it's a smaller market, it's more a point that not everything will work on tablets.

Ultimately I think it's the restrictive nature of tablets that could be their downfall.

The irony is if you walk into any large corporate environment the Window OS is locked down. It's restricted to basic functions and no changes to the settings. Poor office worker can't even add in their own screensaver background!

Considering the majority or revenue comes from corporate in reality all the users gets is a very basic OS with little features.

It's just a shell to launch apps!

 

[Michael Goff]

MS are being squeezed between Apple and Linux.
It is within Apple's power, right now, to kill them. All they need do is make the equivalent of MS Office - Pages, Numbers, etc - available FREE via the App Store. With MS in such current disarray, and with deeply unpopular products, the disappearance of the cash cow would be the final blow.

If you think Pages, Numbers, etc would be able to replace Office completely for large corporations... I have a bridge to sell you.

 

[LordVic]

MS are being squeezed between Apple and Linux.
It is within Apple's power, right now, to kill them. All they need do is make the equivalent of MS Office - Pages, Numbers, etc - available FREE via the App Store. With MS in such current disarray, and with deeply unpopular products, the disappearance of the cash cow would be the final blow.

I dont think you understand the true scope of how deeply rooted Microsoft is in the corporate environment.

and for very VERY good reason, why I have mentioned in my most previous comment.

Microsoft is going nowhere in the corporate world, Especially since Apple, despite some compelling products, and exec level wanting fancy looking computers on their desktops, cannot even begin to compete with the products and services that Microsoft does provide to the corporate world. From SQL packages, database backends, accounting systems, long term support, all in one front office software packages. The true depth of Microsoft's ability is often misunderstood as "hur hur, it's just office"

office just scratches the surface.

 

[spinedoc77]

Agree 100%.

Jobs in the late 80's, early 90's had the vision for the $500 computer. He wanted it to be an appliance. Not something that could be cracked open and tinkered with. He wanted to build first mass market machine. In some ways this was what the original Mac was suppose to be. Looking back the iPad became this vision.

This forum is not indicative of what the broad appeal of iPad and tablets are. Tech guys who want to tinker are not why people buy tablets. Regular people use them as throw away devices. Quick check of the Internet, email, maps etc.

They are extremely good devices when used in this manner and like you say have a long life span in this context.

The misconception here is that a windows tablet "requires tinkering" or requires a "tech guy" to own it. It's just not the case. I see this misconception perpetuated and it seems a lot of times it's by someone who hasn't personally owned a windows tablet for some time, or who is anecdotally relating someone elses experience.

IMO there are some parallels to owning a laptop. Many laptop owners simply use them for tablet like functions, browsing the internet and such. But when they need a real OS they have that choice available to them. This isn't the case with iOS, they are stuck with that. The beauty of a windows tablet is you can have those tablet like functions but can switch over to a real OS at any time. I think this appeal is underestimated in a certain segment of the consumer market, probably not enough to displacing the ipad but still significant IMO. It's just that MS horrible strategy and lack of marketing this specific strength has resulted in very few people really understanding why they should own a windows tablet over an ipad.

 

[zephonic]

MS are being squeezed between Apple and Linux.
It is within Apple's power, right now, to kill them. All they need do is make the equivalent of MS Office - Pages, Numbers, etc - available FREE via the App Store. With MS in such current disarray, and with deeply unpopular products, the disappearance of the cash cow would be the final blow.

I don't think any of Apple's productivity titles are a challenge to MS, but free Pages/Numbers/Keynote are already here as iCloud Betas.
Just log in to icloud.com with your Mac and they are there for you to use.

 

[panzer06]

The misconception here is that a windows tablet "requires tinkering" or requires a "tech guy" to own it. It's just not the case. I see this misconception perpetuated and it seems a lot of times it's by someone who hasn't personally owned a windows tablet for some time, or who is anecdotally relating someone elses experience.

IMO there are some parallels to owning a laptop. Many laptop owners simply use them for tablet like functions, browsing the internet and such. But when they need a real OS they have that choice available to them. This isn't the case with iOS, they are stuck with that. The beauty of a windows tablet is you can have those tablet like functions but can switch over to a real OS at any time. I think this appeal is underestimated in a certain segment of the consumer market, probably not enough to displacing the ipad but still significant IMO. It's just that MS horrible strategy and lack of marketing this specific strength has resulted in very few people really understanding why they should own a windows tablet over an ipad.

I wholeheartedly agree. As an iPad and Android tablet owner I picked up the Windows table because it was on sale ($350) but now that I've had it for a month I pretty much use it all the time. My iPad is only used as a very expensive Verizon hotspot and to access some limited iOS only apps. If I could get $500 for it I'd sell it.

 

[whiteboytrash]

The misconception here is that a windows tablet "requires tinkering" or requires a "tech guy" to own it. It's just not the case. I see this misconception perpetuated and it seems a lot of times it's by someone who hasn't personally owned a windows tablet for some time, or who is anecdotally relating someone elses experience.

IMO there are some parallels to owning a laptop. Many laptop owners simply use them for tablet like functions, browsing the internet and such. But when they need a real OS they have that choice available to them. This isn't the case with iOS, they are stuck with that. The beauty of a windows tablet is you can have those tablet like functions but can switch over to a real OS at any time. I think this appeal is underestimated in a certain segment of the consumer market, probably not enough to displacing the ipad but still significant IMO. It's just that MS horrible strategy and lack of marketing this specific strength has resulted in very few people really understanding why they should own a windows tablet over an ipad.

I meant tablets in general should be throw-away devices. And for the most part they are.

What I meant there are too many tech guys here who get in a spin about GPU and processor speeds forgetting that most people just want to check email.

Windows RT is probably a good device but marketing like it was almost a laptop made it look like a weak laptop and not a strong tablet.

A billon bucks to advertise a keyboard - crazy stuff, right there.

 

[Anuba]

Problem is their tactic is deflectionary. They release products as a protection of the Windows franchise. The Surface really was built to stop the proliferation of iOS and the way it was cutting into Windows PC sales. Zune because they where worried about the iTunes cross over from PC to Mac. Everything they do is not to necessarily release a great product but to stop the opposition from offering a windows alternative.

Right, but all this is a senseless (and talentless) waste of opportunity since they already have proof that they CAN in fact start in a new and already saturated field and still become very successful - the Xbox. They entered in 2001, a year after PS2, at a point when Sony, Nintendo and Sega totally owned the market. In January this year, the Xbox 360 had been the #1 console for 25 consecutive months.

Then again the Xbox division was never under the supervision of that idiot Ballmer... until this summer. Not looking forward to them going from aggressive to deflectionary mode...

 

[whiteboytrash]

Right, but all this is a senseless (and talentless) waste of opportunity since they already have proof that they CAN in fact start in a new and already saturated field and still become very successful - the Xbox. They entered in 2001, a year after PS2, at a point when Sony, Nintendo and Sega totally owned the market. In January this year, the Xbox 360 had been the #1 console for 25 consecutive months.

Then again the Xbox division was never under the supervision of that idiot Ballmer... until this summer. Not looking forward to them going from aggressive to deflectionary mode...

Completely agree. There are a lot of talented people at Micosoft. They have the resource to attract the best people. They still turn an amazing profit but lack the growth of other tech companies. They have fingers in a lot of pies and can afford to make a lot of mistakes and not pay a too big of a price.

But you can see there's been a very big shift. It wil take time, like in years but the windows franchise as we see it today wont last beyond 2020. They have to start thinking that far ahead go be able to compete. Otherwise they'll become a database company and that's about it.

 

[spinedoc77]

I meant tablets in general should be throw-away devices. And for the most part they are.

What I meant there are too many tech guys here who get in a spin about GPU and processor speeds forgetting that most people just want to check email.

Windows RT is probably a good device but marketing like it was almost a laptop made it look like a weak laptop and not a strong tablet.

A billon bucks to advertise a keyboard - crazy stuff, right there.

Well Apple's strategy is to up the specs every revision, with any arguable innovation usually every other revision, although even then that's arguable that some generations were innovative, or simply specced up. Specs are king, especially for the unwashed masses who eat up those specs in rapt attention as the best buy rep lists them all. I know it doesn't seem like the soccer mom knows why she needs a retina display, but you can be sure the saleperson at Apple, best buy or whatever will tell her WHY she needs to buy the ipad 4 over the ipad 3, and that will be based on specs. So that soccer mom who just wants to check email ends up getting the latest and greatest, even though she didn't need to for her needs, consumerism 101.

As for Windows RT, IMO it was a TERRIBLE device. It doesn't matter how they marketed it, it was and is doomed to fail. Yep I'm bitter about the incredibly opportunity MS wasted, hopefully they can recover. But if they keep pushing RT then they will split themselves and fail miserably IMO.

 

[whiteboytrash]

Well Apple's strategy is to up the specs every revision, with any arguable innovation usually every other revision, although even then that's arguable that some generations were innovative, or simply specced up. Specs are king, especially for the unwashed masses who eat up those specs in rapt attention as the best buy rep lists them all. I know it doesn't seem like the soccer mom knows why she needs a retina display, but you can be sure the saleperson at Apple, best buy or whatever will tell her WHY she needs to buy the ipad 4 over the ipad 3, and that will be based on specs. So that soccer mom who just wants to check email ends up getting the latest and greatest, even though she didn't need to for her needs, consumerism 101.

As for Windows RT, IMO it was a TERRIBLE device. It doesn't matter how they marketed it, it was and is doomed to fail. Yep I'm bitter about the incredibly opportunity MS wasted, hopefully they can recover. But if they keep pushing RT then they will split themselves and fail miserably IMO.

The screen is something non-tech people get excited about. The device IS a screen. A lovely looking screen makes all the difference. Lovely photos, lovely Facebook, lovely twitter, lovey looking everything. Smart.

RT = keyboard. Give me a break!

If were MS I would have released RT (or another name) as an xBox tie in. Independent operating system but total integration to Xbox. Drop this windows stuff and office.

I don't mind the idea of a "pro" version but not as a fully fledged laptop windows app launcher. Dumb.

Just make it independent of windows.

Make data the tie in. Not the OS.

 

[spinedoc77]

The screen is something non-tech people get excited about. The device IS a screen. A lovely looking screen makes all the difference. Lovely photos, lovely Facebook, lovely twitter, lovey looking everything. Smart.

RT = keyboard. Give me a break!

If were MS I would have released RT (or another name) as an xBox tie in. Independent operating system but total integration to Xbox. Drop this windows stuff and office.

I don't mind the idea of a "pro" version but not as a fully fledged laptop windows app launcher. Dumb.

Just make it independent of windows.

Make data the tie in. Not the OS.

Well the screen was just an example, Apple uses CPU, GPU, memory, storage space, weight, size, thinness, etc etc as specs to entice consumers. You can be sure many if not all of those things are bragged about in marketing the device to consumers.

I have to disagree on the tie in, the Windows tie in is what could have given MS a strong advantage. That's exactly why I think RT was a huge mistake, you have consumers excited to get a real OS, to get a full copy of windows on a tablet the size of an ipad, then they get home and discover they have a gimped copy of windows, a toy OS similar to the toy OS on the ipad, so they wonder why they bothered to buy it instead of an ipad with a much larger app market. I also think the keyboard continues to be one of the more compelling features as well, although I would not have marketed it so hard and ignored the windows aspect of it. I think the OS was the KEY factor by far, the fact that you get a full real OS, the same OS on your laptop and desktop but get to carry it around in the form factor of the ipad and you have a keyboard the same thickness as a non keyboard smart cover which doesn't need external charging. Pretty damn good stuff IMO, what a wasted opportunity for MS.

Edit: I think an Xbox tie in, however, would have been awesome. The only issue I see thought is that the gaming performance of ANY windows tablet is abyssmal and with an xbox tie in they would be expected to have some kind of gaming performance.

 

[TallManNY]

I used to wonder why non-creative offices wanted powerful machines. I think it's down to requiring the latest OS and software to streamline those machines, faster networks to transfer data that require new hardware, more storage for larger files, support apps (virus scanners etc) become more complex and protective. You can see how it naturally grows.

I can't foresee programmers moving to tablets, at least in their current form. They're too restrictive, storage is too small, workflow isn't as fast, multiple apps in the same display isn't possible yet. A game studio I recently worked with had incredibly talented coders running lightning fast on 3 screens. I've no idea how (or why) that would need to be scaled down. As you say it's a smaller market, it's more a point that not everything will work on tablets.

Ultimately I think it's the restrictive nature of tablets that could be their downfall.

Those power users will always want and get the latest and greatest. But let me ask you, how many of those power users DON'T have a tablet of some kind? And for the few that don't have a tablet, I bet there are a couple who have two. How about two years from now? I'm with Cook on this one. The tablet market is going to be bigger than the PC market.

I think as long as Windows keeps making its OS larger, it will drive some PC sales. But really my last upgrade from a laptop with an SSD to a newer laptop with an SSD was a non-event. Then I switched jobs and got a sleek and small modern laptop, so that was actually an improvement. But speed wise, no improvement. But the laptops can't get much skinnier and the screen is already about as sharp as my eyes can see, so who know when I will feel compelled to ask for an upgrade of my current laptop.

The files folks move around aren't getting appreciably larger. Excel and Word files have a natural limit that was long since exceeded by the power of the computers. I work with PDFs that are large (30 MB sometimes) and opening and manipulating them can stall my computer a bit. But just a bit and this is something I might do a few times a day. So no big deal.

 

[Black Magic]

Well the screen was just an example, Apple uses CPU, GPU, memory, storage space, weight, size, thinness, etc etc as specs to entice consumers. You can be sure many if not all of those things are bragged about in marketing the device to consumers.

I have to disagree on the tie in, the Windows tie in is what could have given MS a strong advantage. That's exactly why I think RT was a huge mistake, you have consumers excited to get a real OS, to get a full copy of windows on a tablet the size of an ipad, then they get home and discover they have a gimped copy of windows, a toy OS similar to the toy OS on the ipad, so they wonder why they bothered to buy it instead of an ipad with a much larger app market. I also think the keyboard continues to be one of the more compelling features as well, although I would not have marketed it so hard and ignored the windows aspect of it. I think the OS was the KEY factor by far, the fact that you get a full real OS, the same OS on your laptop and desktop but get to carry it around in the form factor of the ipad and you have a keyboard the same thickness as a non keyboard smart cover which doesn't need external charging. Pretty damn good stuff IMO, what a wasted opportunity for MS.

Edit: I think an Xbox tie in, however, would have been awesome. The only issue I see thought is that the gaming performance of ANY windows tablet is abyssmal and with an xbox tie in they would be expected to have some kind of gaming performance.

I'm with old boy on this one. Windows is the problem and not the solution. To be honest, the Surface is not a tablet, it's a laptop and not a very good one at that. Yes it has a touch interface for some stuff, but go into desktop mode or Office and you right back to mouse\keyboard. You can't even use the device in portrait mode.

Again, nobody really wants what Microsoft has to offer right now. You can say how easy it is how you THINK it's the main thing people want but ultimately people are migrating away from PCs and Windows. You also say that its a misconception that the Surface doesn't require a tech person. That is not true. Surface Pro is nothing more than a touch interface slapped on to the OS as an afterthought. Still has a registry and all the same issues Windows has had before just in a lesser form. Windows is not really user friendly to the masses and the Surface damn sure isn't because it doesn't know what it wants to be and half ass committed to both.

 

[whiteboytrash]

I'm with old boy on this one. Windows is the problem and not the solution. To be honest, the Surface is not a tablet, it's a laptop and not a very good one at that. Yes it has a touch interface for some stuff, but go into desktop mode or Office and you right back to mouse\keyboard. You can't even use the device in portrait mode.

Again, nobody really wants what Microsoft has to offer right now. You can say how easy it is how you THINK it's the main thing people want but ultimately people are migrating away from PCs and Windows. You also say that its a misconception that the Surface doesn't require a tech person. That is not true. Surface Pro is nothing more than a touch interface slapped on to the OS as an afterthought. Still has a registry and all the same issues Windows has had before just in a lesser form. Windows is not really user friendly to the masses and the Surface damn sure isn't because it doesn't know what it wants to be and half ass committed to both.

You can just imagine the crack team of engineers pitching Surface to Ballmer. They'd be taking him through the presentation of a fully independent operating system, amazing sleek hardware and super sensitive touch screen. And just when they think they've won Big Steve over he says.....

"Yeah! Yeah! I like it! I love it! And we'll attach a keyboard to it! Yeah! And then we'll offer two versions! One that can run windows software then other one just metro and call them windows metro! Yeah! Then we'll pay developers to build millions of apps for this thing and spend a billion on marketing! Yeah! And I want the keyboard featuring prominently in all the advertising because iPad doesn't have a keyboard! Yeah! Windows windows windows!"

Engineers, face palm.

 

[zephonic]

This thread made me curious about Windows 8 so I took the afternoon off and went to BestBuy to check it out.

From what I managed to extract, W8 seems like a pretty nice touch OS, but here is the problem, BestBuy's PC section does not do the products any favors. Half the computers had some kind of problem, were not connected to the internet, had expired anti-virus notifications etc.

In stark contrast, the Apple section was a model of efficiency and everything there just worked.

Another thing that bugged me about W8 was that on some models I could not go back to the tile-interface from the desktop, and vice versa on some others; it was not at all clear how to do that. Some had a dedicated button for that, but the others...shoot, I dunno.

I can totally see how Jane Doe gets discouraged by all that and how the streamlined and homogenous offerings from Apple seem so much more uncomplicated in comparison.

BestBuy's personnel needs to be trained on how to maintain the PC section, it is totally demotivating.

 

[Black Magic]

This thread made me curious about Windows 8 so I took the afternoon off and went to BestBuy to check it out.

From what I managed to extract, W8 seems like a pretty nice touch OS, but here is the problem, BestBuy's PC section does not do the products any favors. Half the computers had some kind of problem, were not connected to the internet, had expired anti-virus notifications etc.

In stark contrast, the Apple section was a model of efficiency and everything there just worked.

Another thing that bugged me about W8 was that on some models I could not go back to the tile-interface from the desktop, and vice versa on some others; it was not at all clear how to do that. Some had a dedicated button for that, but the others...shoot, I dunno.

I can totally see how Jane Doe gets discouraged by all that and how the streamlined and homogenous offerings from Apple seem so much more uncomplicated in comparison.

BestBuy's personnel needs to be trained on how to maintain the PC section, it is totally demotivating.

That's the whole point. Windows is freaking complicated and not user friendly. If the sales reps need training (which you know they got) and the PC section is still a hot mess, that should tell you everything you need to know. Sales reps, consumers, friend and foe don't care about Windows anymore.

Just to show you an example of how half ass Microsoft does stuff, go to the Sports Metro tile and try to add a College Football or Basketball team to follow. Good luck.

We were at a Windows Store a few weeks back and went into Metro on a large touch screen monitor. Apparently MS thought is was much easier to close out the metro app my swiping from the very top and going to the bottom of the screen (which worked sometimes) versus hitting a close button.

 

[blackcrayon]

The fanboy force is strong with you.

You obviously ignored the post I was replying to. The reading comp is strong with you.

 

[Abazigal]

The misconception here is that a windows tablet "requires tinkering" or requires a "tech guy" to own it. It's just not the case. I see this misconception perpetuated and it seems a lot of times it's by someone who hasn't personally owned a windows tablet for some time, or who is anecdotally relating someone elses experience.

IMO there are some parallels to owning a laptop. Many laptop owners simply use them for tablet like functions, browsing the internet and such. But when they need a real OS they have that choice available to them. This isn't the case with iOS, they are stuck with that. The beauty of a windows tablet is you can have those tablet like functions but can switch over to a real OS at any time. I think this appeal is underestimated in a certain segment of the consumer market, probably not enough to displacing the ipad but still significant IMO. It's just that MS horrible strategy and lack of marketing this specific strength has resulted in very few people really understanding why they should own a windows tablet over an ipad.

The problem is that for a windows tablet, both choices suck.

You have the ability to launch apps with a tile-like interface, but then you are still stuck with the app's default desktop-like UI. If I am using the tablet docked to a keyboard (like the surface), I wouldn't need launchpad. But if I use the tablet by itself, I am hobbled by being restricted to using my finger to interact with an interface that was designed for a keyboard and mouse environment.

The irony of having choice and options (up to 5 modes of input for a windows tablet) is that they actually end up getting in the way of one another, and they each suck so bad that I am forced to constantly switch amongst the five just to get anything done).

And then MS and all its OEM partners make the baffling decision of releasing their tablets in the 16:9 ratio, which sucks for any form of productivity (because you are typically left with 30 - 40% of the screen after factoring in the onscreen keyboard and ribbon bars).

These are things marketing and hollow boasts of being able to multitask or run Office won't tell you, that they suck so bad to use on a tablet that you likely won't end up wanting to use them anyways, even when the option presents itself.

 

[sinfonye]

Apple produce the hardware and software, that's why it's often pretty flawless.

But I run a lot of third-party software on my Mac. Mostly it works well,
apart from MS Office.

The experience is completely different to using Windows (continual reboots,
antivirus software, nagging interface, bloatware, horrible system management issues...)

 

[Solomani]

Siri: 14.6 Million in Q3 of 2013.

Surface: I'm sorry I can't do that.

Awesome comeback, Siri.

 

[spinedoc77]

I'm with old boy on this one. Windows is the problem and not the solution. To be honest, the Surface is not a tablet, it's a laptop and not a very good one at that. Yes it has a touch interface for some stuff, but go into desktop mode or Office and you right back to mouse\keyboard. You can't even use the device in portrait mode.

Again, nobody really wants what Microsoft has to offer right now. You can say how easy it is how you THINK it's the main thing people want but ultimately people are migrating away from PCs and Windows. You also say that its a misconception that the Surface doesn't require a tech person. That is not true. Surface Pro is nothing more than a touch interface slapped on to the OS as an afterthought. Still has a registry and all the same issues Windows has had before just in a lesser form. Windows is not really user friendly to the masses and the Surface damn sure isn't because it doesn't know what it wants to be and half ass committed to both.

Well this is a point we fundamentally disagree upon, but it's a great discussion. I think the first issue is that you guys keep lumping all the tablets into one "surface" category, where they each really need to be discussed separately, each has it's own strengths and weaknesses and specific relationship to the ipad and the market. For example, I beg to differ that the atom tablets are poor laptops, and I also beg to differ that you can't use them or any windows tablet in portrait mode. In fact some things are better in portrait mode such as stylus use and word processing, annotating PDF files, reading a book, and even browsing the web or reading from a news app is very nice to use in portrait mode.

As for being user friendly, once again I think you guys really are making the typical "tablet user" to be much stupider than they are. It's not rocket science to use a windows tablet. Seriously, do you find it that difficult to use one? You keep harping about stuff that doesn't really exist for the user. You previously were crying about program defaults but had no idea that there was a way to changes those thru the Metro interface with your finger, clearly showing a lack of real world use of windows tablets, yet you feel qualified to tell us how difficult they are to use. The registry is another example, in Metro and using Apps there is absolutely NO reason you would ever think the registry ever ever existed. I'm a huge tinkerer and I think the last time I went into the registry was in Windows XP. It's just a non issue.

 

[whiteboytrash]

The problem is that for a windows tablet, both choices suck.

You have the ability to launch apps with a tile-like interface, but then you are still stuck with the app's default desktop-like UI. If I am using the tablet docked to a keyboard (like the surface), I wouldn't need launchpad. But if I use the tablet by itself, I am hobbled by being restricted to using my finger to interact with an interface that was designed for a keyboard and mouse environment.

The irony of having choice and options (up to 5 modes of input for a windows tablet) is that they actually end up getting in the way of one another, and they each suck so bad that I am forced to constantly switch amongst the five just to get anything done).

And then MS and all its OEM partners make the baffling decision of releasing their tablets in the 16:9 ratio, which sucks for any form of productivity (because you are typically left with 30 - 40% of the screen after factoring in the onscreen keyboard and ribbon bars).

These are things marketing and hollow boasts of being able to multitask or run Office won't tell you, that they suck so bad to use on a tablet that you likely won't end up wanting to use them anyways, even when the option presents itself.

Reminds of Windows 3.0/3.1 sitting on the top of DOS. We've come a long way to have Metro sitting on top of Windows.

Same situation. Windows 3.0/1 you could launch apps and do most simple things but as soon as you has an small issue you'd had to drop into DOS and types something like "edit confiig.sys" !!